Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Criminologist and academic whose research on the Hillsborough disaster was fundamental to uncovering the truth.
On the island
Eight records
This is Christy Moore and he's singing on the bridge and for two reasons. First of all, it speaks to the whole issue of political imprisonment, women political prisoners in Ireland. But secondly, from my point of view, it speaks to all prisoners. The fact that prisons are out of sight, out of mind, when in actual fact they are our prisons, our responsibility, paid for by our taxes. We have a duty to know what is actually happening behind those walls.
This is Bruce Springsteen, and he's singing Chimes of Freedom, which is a Bob Dylan song. It was recorded just two weeks before the great concert in East Berlin, which I think informed so many people, young people, in terms of what was happening behind the wall, before the wall came down.
This is Billie Holiday singing Strange Fruit. One of the issues that was clear in my family growing up was the kind of implicit racism that existed all around us. There was a family of dockers and seamen on the male side. And I think it picked away at my consciousness. And I heard Billie Holiday singing Strange Fruit, and it's a perfect example of what was kept from me, but at the same time, the vital understanding of what was really going on around us.
This is Something Inside So Strong by Labby Sifri, and I think this song just goes right to the heart of fighting back against injustice, but also saying we can do it. We can do it together. We're strong together.
This is a song by a very good friend of mine and he lives in the north of Ireland and this song is the Leaving Song. This tells the story really of my mother's family way back when they left Ireland at the time of the people call it the Great Famine, I would call it the Great Starvation and they were heading for America but they ended up in Liverpool and Birkenhead. So the Leaving Song is about that wrench from your home, from your identity.
Death in custody have been really close to my concerns ever since the death of Jimmy Kelly in Liverpool and the death of Steve Biko dying in custody and the cover-up of that was a profound concern and really hit home. And I really think that the bravery of his family to refuse to take part in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, while his death was unresolved, they didn't want amnesty. What they wanted was truth. And they didn't think they could get it through truth and reconciliation in a commission. So it's the backdrop, if you like, to so much of the work I've done on deaths in custody. And also this particular version by Joan Byez connects it to a really wonderful peace campaigner in the United States.
My final choice is love and affection. My partner, Dina, her favourite of all time is Joan Armitrading. We had the honour of meeting Joan when she was given a doctorate in music in Glasgow and we were fortunate to get in the ballot and get our two tickets, although Dina didn't know that's where we were going. And she played a whole set. So I think for my family, for my partner, but also for myself, I think love and affection is the message.
In conversation
Presenter asks
1:24Why do you feel that sense of obligation that seems to run through your life's work?
It came very early on. It came when I was in school and I saw unfairness, injustice. One example stands out. It was a day when all the girls were removed from assembly and we all had to sit down cross-legged on the floor, the boys. And up on the stage, there was the head teacher, the deputy headteacher, and the parish priest. And a wee boy was brought in, undernourished, very poor. And he was walked between two very tall teachers, male teachers, up onto the stage. And he was told that he'd been caught stealing from the local shop, or we were told, and that he was to be punished. And they proceeded to cane him on his backside, cane him on both hands, and he walked out between the two teachers. And I sat there trembling, holding on to myself. And as he walked past, there were tears just running down his cheeks. And I knew that was wrong. Immediately I knew that was authority, completely wrong. And all of this because he'd stolen what? He'd stolen biscuits from a local shop and we knew why. He was one of seven. He had a single parent. They were poor. He needed food. And the juxtaposition of that injustice really stuck with me.
Presenter asks
3:28What are the skills of a very rigorous, thorough, and highly regarded researcher? When you're talking to students, what do you say?
Well, there are two things that I think I say to my students who are researching. One is that you cannot do this kind of research without an inquiring mind. You never take anything for granted. You never take any official explanation for granted. Even if it's correct, you still unpack it and you understand it. And the second most important issue is you're in it for the long haul. You can't say, I'm doing this research for three years because I'm doing a PhD. Now I'm finished. Yes, you are finished. But what are your obligations to the people that you've been working with if the case itself hasn't finished? No one would have anticipated Hillsborough is going to last for three decades.
The keepsakes
The book
The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists
Robert Tressell
A brilliant book, uh formative to my own analysis, my own thinking.
The luxury
I've um struggled a long time to be the guitar player that both my sons are. I'll take uh one of my guitars.
Presenter asks
5:58What was your immediate reaction to hearing the official findings that the 96 had been unlawfully killed?
I was in the court and I was sitting in the second row as the four-person. She sat down, she was allowed to sit down. And when we arrived at the unlawfully killed verdict, there was an immediate, immediate response of vindication amongst the families. I was sitting right amongst them. But still, there was an issue because the next question was: did the fans in any way contribute to that unlawful killing? And when she said no, I broke down. I put my hand hands in to my head and my head down, and I'll never forget that moment of families comforting me. When I always saw it as my role to comfort them. And to be honest, in 2000 I felt I'd let the families down, I'd written two reports, I'd written the first edition of Hills with the Truth, and nothing came of it, and they hadn't been vindicated in in the public eye. The other thing to say is that we talk about the Hillsborough 96. It's not just 96. I've watched so many of those families die en route. You know, from a direct consequence of their suffering or even from their injuries. So we can't say it was 96 who died in Hillsbury, it's many hundreds.
Presenter asks
7:54How fundamentally damaged do you think the fabric of British society was by what happened at Hillsborough?
Well, I think that the fabric was damaged specifically in relation to investigations and inquiries and the trust in what we considered to be British justice. And we saw an immediate questioning of that. But it was still because of the nature of Hillsborough, the doubt was, oh, the fans must have contributed, and so on. It was only when we got the final vindication, and that was the word that was used most often in the press and on the media, was this idea of vindication that people really began to question. And you can see the distinction now in terms of Grenfell and the Grenfell fire. And you can see how people, ordinary people, who've lost everything, will no longer just actually sit back and be passive observers of their own injustice, of their own suffering.
Presenter asks
20:12Why did you feel like an outsider in your own city when you went to university?
Well, I think there were twofold. I mean, one, the bus conductor story really sums it up. You know, when mum and dad were ill and I needed to do something to bring some money in, and I went and worked in an office, and that was just dreadful. So I went on the buses. My dad had had a time when he'd been a bus driver for a while. So I went and worked on the buses. It was some of the happiest days of my life, actually. We had great fun. But the contrast between the camaraderie and understanding you felt in your own community and then walking up Brownlow Hill to Liverpool University in those days and being passed by people who'd been at public school driving sports cars. But the thing that was great for me, you know, was that I just felt that there was an opportunity to spend time really understanding the context in which I'd lived and would live. I just thought that was such a privilege. And of course, in those days, we had full grants, so it was made easy for working class people to do it at that level. But I felt such a contrast with those around me who all used these big words, you know, and stuff that I didn't understand. And then I realised that that is in fact a mirage.
Presenter asks
30:07Has it taken a personal toll on you, giving voice to the voiceless?
Well, I don't think I give voice to the voiceless. I think I echo the voices that I hear. This hasn't all been without challenge. I mean, I had death threats to my home phone number, which was X Directory, and have had a whole series of checks put on me, or attempted checks put on me, by my institutions, not the one I'm working with now, Queen's, but previously. One famous memo was perhaps I should think less about being involved in Hillsborough and more in getting on with the rest of my academic work. But, you know, I get by with help from my friends, to quote a well-known song, and also I get by really with the love and support of those who are close to me.
“I sat there trembling, holding on to myself. And as he walked past, there were tears just running down his cheeks. And I knew that was wrong.”
“I broke down. I put my hands in to my head and my head down, and I'll never forget that moment of families comforting me.”
“We talk about the Hillsborough 96. It's not just 96. I've watched so many of those families die en route.”
“I will not be silent.”
“I don't think I give voice to the voiceless. I think I echo the voices that I hear.”