Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Lawyer who led the defence of Nelson Mandela and other ANC activists in the 1963 Rivonia Trial.
On the island
Eight records
Well, my first music choice does go back to my days in South Africa and particularly ... in the resistance movement, the African National Congress, Nkausi Sekalali Li Afrika, was sung quite frequently, as it is really a type of prayer, and even the apartheid government could not really object to it. But the defining moment was at the inauguration of Nelson Mandela as President of South Africa.
My next piece arose from my aunt, who was my godmother, deciding that coming from a musical family, I she would teach me to sing. To her dismay, she learned that actually I was both tone deaf and unable to hold a tune. And the song she had chosen to launch me into my musical career was Havanagila, which had been composed by my grandfather when he was in Palestine.
Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 61
When I was at university, having realized that I could not ever get a deep understanding of music, I thought I ought to try and I bought a number of on a random basis I bought a number of records and amongst them happily was Beethoven's violin concerta and I played it many times and really although I didn't understand the structure or anything, the depth of the piece, I liked it and played it often
Joan Bay sings it, and to me it it really resonates because I found my life has been dictated by chance and being in the right place at the right time. And I haven't got a great deal of talent, but I have a certain talent for good luck. And this song actually conveys how dependent you are on fortune and that life could have been very different if you did not have this fortune.
When I left South Africa and flew to England, when the plane was crossing England, I looked out of the window and there was this wonderful green countryside which looked so tranquil compared to the harsh South African high field. And I felt it really made an enormous impression upon me. And since then, whenever Jerusalem is sung at the last night of the proms, it fills me with a sense of tremendous patriotism towards this country.
My favourite musical has always been My Fair Lady, which I find absolutely brilliant. And in it is a song called Without You, and it actually resonates with me because one of my weak points, many weak points, is that actually I don't get on well with pompous, self-satisfied people. And this song, if I could sing, is the sort of thing I would like to sing about them.
My wife and I were were great fans of Joan Byers. This particular song is about overcoming injustice and my sense that actually if people work together on doing things, they can really change the world for the better. And therefore I've chosen We Shall Overcome.
Under Milk WoodFavourite
My final choice is I only came across relatively recently, but I think it's quite magical. It is Richard Burton reading Dylan Thomas in Under Milkwood, and it transports you really when you listen to it. You feel you're in a different place in the middle of this village which he's looking at and describing.
In conversation
Presenter asks
0:48What was your best hope for the defendants [in the Rivonia Trial]?
Well, the the trial was uh from the point of view of the defence l lawyers was about saving the lives of these wonderful wonderful people. And that was our main objective, but that was not the main objective of Nelson Mandela and his colleagues. They considered it of secondary importance. The important thing to them was that the grievances and the reasons which drove them to the sort of violence which they initiated ... Needed to be brought to the attention of the world, and they wanted to put the government in the dark in the court of world opinion.
Presenter asks
2:00What did you make of [the nine members of the African National Congress] as individuals?
I think that the nine members of the African National Congress were the finest people that I had ever met. They actually had such courage, such integrity, and were so committed. And it was the integrity of these people that they weren't in it in any way for their own good, they were there for their people, and it made, of course, an everlasting impression upon me, and it was a great privilege to defend them.
Presenter asks
2:38What do you remember about when Nelson Mandela was released after twenty seven years?
The keepsakes
The book
Nelson Mandela
if he could live in a cell for twenty seven years, I could live on a desert island for at least that period.
The luxury
which would enable me to listen to World Service and to Radio Four, and of course every week at least once to Desert Island Discs.
Oh, I was glued with my wife Anetta to the television, waiting and waiting and waiting. It was a long wait before he eventually emerged. I was quite convinced that freedom would eventually come to South Africa, but it would probably be in about the year 2020. And I had assumed that all the accused would die in jail. But it was such a moment of joy and happiness and astonishment to see Nelson Mandela walking out. We, of course, will always remember that.
Presenter asks
13:35What was the first time that you actually met Nelson Mandela?
And the first time I met him was in the consulting room in Pretoria Jail. And they had flown Nelson Mandela down from Robin Island, where he is already serving a sentence, to be charged with the other accused. The door opened, and in came Nelson Mandela in typical South African prison garb for black people. Black people were only allowed to wear short trousers, white people could wear long trousers. And he came in with sandals and a torn shirt. And he walked into that room totally unself-conscious and just assumed control. And we all sat back and waited to be told what we should be doing.
Presenter asks
25:12What made you initially get involved [with campaigning for assisted dying]?
Well, um it seemed to me to be a matter of human rights, and I'm a strong believer in personal autonomy and the right of people to make decisions on everything which relates to their life.
“I think that the nine members of the African National Congress were the finest people that I had ever met. They actually had such courage, such integrity, and were so committed.”
“I was quite convinced that freedom would eventually come to South Africa, but it would probably be in about the year 2020. And I had assumed that all the accused would die in jail. But it was such a moment of joy and happiness and astonishment to see Nelson Mandela walking out.”
“I found my life has been dictated by chance and being in the right place at the right time. And I haven't got a great deal of talent, but I have a certain talent for good luck.”