Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Director of Tate, one of the most powerful people in the art world, known for bringing contemporary art into the mainstream.
On the island
Eight records
I have a particularly visceral memory of standing on the edge of a Dodgem's ride in Abington Park in Northampton. … And my family, especially my extended family, very political. And I realised this song was about the Thatcher government and the state of English society. And it made the hairs stand on the back of my neck because it was both effortlessly cool and it was also about protest, and that's very important to me.
And for a while my auntie Self was married to Phil Higgs and he was a massive influence on me. He used to send me cassette tapes of music that he thought I needed to know about and one particularly brilliant tape had Bowie's station to station on one side and young Americans on the other. And I listened and listened and listened to that. So it's remembering Phil Higgs' music education and also because Bowie was for me one of the great non-conformists, somebody who's created himself over and over again.
I love their music and I especially loved their collaborations with Derek Jarman. And in my final year, I did a cultural studies course in Liverpool, which allowed me to write about any cultural phenomenon. And I wrote about television, their video. It got me a first. That meant I could go on and do my Masters and PhD. But the real reason it's on my list is because dancing to the Pet Shop Boys music in gay clubs was how I spent my teenage years. So absolutely epic disco.
Emmylou Harris and Gram Parsons
This is of the days when I did work in Birmingham alongside my dear friend Helen and we were in an American Studies department and we were obsessed with women's country music. I think all of them, from Dolly through to Patsy Klein, the whole lot of them are all feminists and so many of their songs are absolutely inspirational to us as women. But my very favourite of all is Emilou Harris. So I've picked Emily Lou Harris and Grand Parsons, Love Hurts.
And I chose this because the first year that I was in Manchester was a time of tumultuous change for me. I'd moved the children, moved the city, moved their schools, moved house, moved jobs, and I also separated from my first husband and then started a relationship with my now husband, Nick. And I listened to this album for the whole of the year. It kept me going through an incredibly difficult time in my life, and so it makes me think of my lovely husband, Nick, because he was the someone who took care of me, first as a friend and then later as a husband.
This one speaks to my time in Manchester and some adventurous journeys I was able to do. The Olympics obviously happened in the UK in 2012 and the cultural organisations were asked to be part of the national cultural celebration of the world coming to the UK. We set ourselves the task of making a group exhibition that would celebrate the contemporary art of West Africa. So I was able to go to Mali with my daughter Lily, who was 11 years old. And for a long time I'd listened to the music from that country. So this song is by Tumani Diabati and it's called Cantalaus. And it's the most incredible lifting of the riff from Ennio Morricani's music from Fistful of Dollars. And I love that there's this intercultural exchange going on there. A Malian musician taking Morricani's signature moment, but making it absolutely Malian.
Waiting for the Great Leap ForwardFavourite
Billy's been important to me since my aunt made me a now that's what I'd call protest music tape at the height of the miners' strike. I love all of his music. But also, it's now a song that reminds me so much of my son Jake and Godson Ryan and Lily and Lauren, my goddaughter. leaping forward in the kitchen to this they love his music now just as much as I do.
And this song is for the amazing group of teenagers who have been part of my life for the last five or six years. Lily's circle of friends, Stephen and Kerris, and Grace and Megan, Sonny and Clay, who listened to Stormzy and Dave and many other black musicians. And this song, I think more than any other, speaks to the challenges of making change happen. Stormzy himself has been extraordinary in terms of committing resources to allow young people to have scholarships to go to Cambridge and to supporting action around race equality. But this song also speaks of the challenges he faces in carrying that work forward. So it's a very serious and I think important song.
In conversation
Presenter asks
0:44How does this moment feel, with all four Tates about to reopen for the first time since lockdown?
It feels very exciting, but also with that sense of trepidation. And I have to say, in many ways, these past few months have been more active than ever as we've been reaching people digitally, sharing works from the collection online, supporting children's learning. But I think the biggest feeling is a sense of excitement that the public are going to come back into our spaces. The artworks have been waiting for them.
Presenter asks
2:47Why does it matter to us as individuals and as wider society that everyone should have access to art?
For centuries, art was part of the life of the elites and not so much part of the life of ordinary people. And for me, seeing the world through the eyes of an artist has opened my mind to different possibilities different from where I was growing up. And artists' perspectives on our world challenge us to think about new ideas and they take us to different places. So whether they see it in a gallery or a museum or whether they see it on their phone or on the street as they move around, I don't really care where people see it. But I think the human practice of making art belongs to all of us.
Presenter asks
5:17Tell me a little bit about your mum. How did she influence you growing up?
The keepsakes
The book
Roy Vickery
I'd like Vicary's Folk Flora, which tells you the stories and folklore as well as the uses of plants.
The luxury
Derek Jarman's garden at Prospect Cottage (seeds and plants)
I'd like to take with me the ability to create something I regard as an artwork, which is Derek Jarman's garden at Prospect Cottage ... So I'd like the flowers that are in that garden, but also some vegetable seeds.
My mum's the middle child of six, Irish Catholic family, very noisy, but she's the quiet middle one. She worked as a teacher her whole career. She also started to coach gymnastics when we moved to Northampton for my dad's job. And she took me to a gymnastic class, I am sure, to help me burn off some of my considerable energy. She was a steady, calm, really warm presence throughout my upbringing and interfered surprisingly little in my education, given that she was a teacher. She just thought I would get on and do the work because, you know, that's what you do. We're very close, and she was a great role model as a working woman.
Presenter asks
6:16Tell me a little bit more about your dad.
It's hard to talk about him at the moment because part of my lockdown has been very sad because dad died in his care home. … And he as he said, he was an excellent swearer. … And I hope that, you know, at least in my best moments, I embody some of dad's energy, and sometimes you do have to be bloody-minded to get things done, but that there's my mum's sense of gentleness, and I think she gave me a great gift of calmness.
Presenter asks
14:59How did being a parent change you?
I had an incredible struggle to have Jake. I had three miscarriages before I had him. And I feel in that I went from being a young woman to an adult. Because I experienced something that I couldn't control, that nobody could explain to me. None of my female friends had ever talked about miscarriage. And yet I now know that so many women experience it. So it was a real pain to overcome and then Jake's arrival and then quite soon afterwards Lily's. … And I realize now it was very unusual to be an academic of the age I was and choose to have children. … But out of that came a much greater clarity of focus about the rest of my life.
Presenter asks
26:03How significant is the fact that you're the first woman director of Tate to you?
Well, it was a huge honour to be selected as the director of Tate. … And it was also fantastic to be the first woman in the sense that many other women that I know and many that I didn't know got in touch to say how important they felt it was as a milestone. Because there are still very, very few women leading museums anywhere in the world. … And I look forward to the time when no one remarks on the gender of a director. If a man is appointed, it's just his name. And we need to get to that point. And we do in terms of people of colour leading our national organisations, because there are none at the moment. And that doesn't reflect the UK as it is now.
“It feels very exciting, but also with that sense of trepidation. And I have to say, in many ways, these past few months have been more active than ever as we've been reaching people digitally, sharing works from the collection online, supporting children's learning. But I think the biggest feeling is a sense of excitement that the public are going to come back into our spaces. The artworks have been waiting for them.”
“I had an incredible struggle to have Jake. I had three miscarriages before I had him. And I feel in that I went from being a young woman to an adult. Because I experienced something that I couldn't control, that nobody could explain to me. None of my female friends had ever talked about miscarriage. And yet I now know that so many women experience it. So it was a real pain to overcome and then Jake's arrival and then quite soon afterwards Lily's. … But out of that came a much greater clarity of focus about the rest of my life.”
“And I sat there one day and saw a little boy on a scooter. Push himself really fast down the path that led towards the gallery's entrance. … And I thought, we have done the right thing here. If a child can scoot into the gallery, it's genuinely open to its public.”
“And I look forward to the time when no one remarks on the gender of a director. If a man is appointed, it's just his name. And we need to get to that point. And we do in terms of people of colour leading our national organisations, because there are none at the moment. And that doesn't reflect the UK as it is now.”