Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Advertising executive who created 'Vorsprung durch Technik' and the Levi's laundrette ad; co-founded Bartle Bogle Hegarty; won't advertise cigarettes or politic
On the island
Eight records
When I was growing up, rock and roll happened. I I was born at the perfect time, I think, 1944, because rock and roll happened at about the age of twelve. But it really was black music. And I thought what was always appalling was that white music or white musicians were able to make it popular and deny the rights of black people who had actually really written most of it, and it was their inspiration. And for me, Chuck Berry, out of all of those early rock and roll stars, was the greatest of them all.
I've moved on to jazz here. I mean, rock and roll died in 1958, I think it was. Buddy Holly was killed in a plane crash. Elvis Presley went into the army. And people wrote it off and said, well, that's the end. That was an interesting little interregnum, that. That was rock and roll. What next? And I was then sort of beginning to think about going to art school and it was all becoming terribly intellectual. And jazz emerged. And we all started really listening to jazz. And one of the, to me, one of the great exponents was Theolonius Monk. And he believed in this thing called quarter tones, where he played either side of the note and therefore created a very distinctive sound. And I think the tune of his that most depicts that is Blue Monk.
Record number three has to be from the sixties, Bob Dylan. I mean he was for me the first sort of poet songwriter that really made it into the chart scene. And I've chosen Subterranean Homesick Blues just because I think it's absolutely wonderful. And also in it he created what has really been sort of identified as the p first pop video when he wrote all the words of the song on card and just stood there tossing them down. So it has all sorts of connections, but it's just a wonderful song.
The the next piece is uh Smokey Robinson, The Tracks of My Tears. The words are just absolutely beautiful. It was written, produced and obviously sung by Smokey Robinson and shows that that you know people kind of often dismiss pop music as being pap. And I think also with this it shows how you can write something that's very populist but also has an intensity to it that if you get into it has even more going for it.
Stand By MeFavourite
The next one has to be from really the Levi's series. And I've done sort of two things here. It's Stand By Me, but I've actually chosen John Lennon's version of it from his rock and roll album, which John Lennon to me was one of the great musicians and singers of my sort of formative years. And I just had to sort of put them both together here because I've only got eight tracks. So it's just a wonderful drum. We did actually use it by Benny King in one of our commercials, but this is John Lennon's version.
Record number six is again a a jazz track and it's Sketches of Spain by Mars Davis. And this was a remarkable series of musical collaborations between Mars Davis and Gil Evans who was the arranger. And in this particular album they they came together and took traditional Spanish melodies and songs and uh created jazz tracks out of them and it's just it's just a wonderfully evocative and emotional piece of music.
Record number seven is a great favourite of mine, Bob Marley's Redemption Song. I think Marley represented a nation and tried in many ways to bring his country and the factions within it together. Redemption Song for me has got such power and emotion in it, you you can't not listen to it and almost not cry.
Well I had to select something by Brian Ferry because I just think he's a terrific singer and tremendous stylist. I've actually chosen a a very little known track of his, When She Walks in the Room. It's from his album The Bride Strip Bear, which I don't think was actually a huge critical success. But I think he's a wonderful ballad writer and a great singer, and again writes at his best writes wonderful music and words, and this one particularly I like.
In conversation
Presenter asks
1:06What's wrong with advertising political parties, given that it's made a lot of agencies a huge amount of money?
I think it's a very interesting thing in some ways to work in. I think that the point of view that we take is that we are best as an agency when we're working as one. And I think it would be very difficult for us to sort of amalgamate all our points of view under one political party. I think it goes very deep in people's beliefs.
Presenter asks
2:34You've said you have a huge amount of money and want to unclutter your life. What do you mean by that?
When I say I have a huge amount of it, I have a huge amount from my point of view. I mean, I came from a sort of working-class background, so the kind of money I'm earning now is in some ways ridiculous, but who am I to send it back? But I think in life, as I go on, I think if you can focus yourself on things, you can focus on issues, that's what's important to me, and really take things away so you see more.
Presenter asks
8:05How did it all begin for you? When did you or somebody else spot that you were an ideas man?
Well, I was at Hornsey Art School and I had a wonderful tutor there, a man called Peter Greene, and he sort of observed that I was really probably the worst painter that had ever crossed the threshold of Hornsey Art School, but that I was very much kind of about ideas and I was fascinated by ideas and how they worked and communication. And he suggested that what I should do was to go to design school, become a designer, and and that I almost had a sort of commercial application for my thinking. And it was there that I then had uh another lucky encounter with a man called John Gillard, who was teaching there, who talked about advertising. And I hadn't even really thought about it, although it was surrounded me. I hadn't even noticed it. And he showed me some work from an agency then in America, New York, called Dordane Birmberg, and they were doing the advertising for the Volkswagen Beetle. And he showed me this this press work, and there were thoughts in it, like it's ugly but it works, with a picture of it. And it all of a sudden it was like a switch being thrown on in a darkened room. Th tha it suddenly felt that I thought, That's exactly what I want to do. Here is something that's intriguing, involving, it's clever without being elitist, it's stimulating, it has integrity, it's telling the truth about the product, it's not trying to hide it, but it's doing it in a way which is sort of capturing the imagination.
The keepsakes
The book
James Stephens
My book is a wonderful book called The Crock of Gold by James Stevens. And it's a beautiful book about philosophy, about life, about theories, about imagination, about how we confront issues and how we debate them and argue them. And it's just a beautiful book to have around. And if ever you feel a bit low, you just pick it up and read a bit. And there's a lovely line in it, and it says what the heart feels today, the mind understands tomorrow. And I've always remembered that as being very meaningful and powerful. So that's my book.
The luxury
I think I'd take my clarinet. I imagined myself at one time of being a sort of musician, and played the clarinet and saxophone extremely badly I mean, really appallingly. And I think if I'm stuck on this desert island I'll have plenty of time to practise, so I might become rather good at it.
Presenter asks
12:50You got fired from your first advertising job, didn't you?
I did, yes. I was at an agency uh well, we shouldn't we shouldn't go into that really. It was very interesting actually. I I was obviously a complete pain in the bum. There's no question about that. Because I really thought I knew it all and and kind of uh had a kind of vision about where I was going, which to a certain extent I was right. But obviously I hadn't learnt how you put that forward in a in a sort of reasonably complex structure, which any organization is.
Presenter asks
29:37You've described yourself as a well-educated working-class boy. Do you think that background has been important in your success?
I think it has actually. I think the advantage of coming from a working class background, understanding, knowing, living with people and seeing their aspirations and their kind of concerns and their kind of dreams, has helped me tremendously in being able to talk to clients about how you talk to the mass of people in this country. So I think it's of great benefit, and I'm eternally grateful for it, really. You end up living in nice, wonderful Highgate in a very nice part of London, but I mean people can easily say you've lost touch, but you remember those moments in your life and they do have kind of great significance for you.
Presenter asks
30:24Your parents are both dead now, but did they approve of your success? Did they approve of advertising?
I think I'm not really sure about my father. My father only ever said two things to me which I've really remembered. One, he said to me, the best thing I can give you is an education, because that can't be taken from you. And the other thing he said to me was, never trust a man who wears white shoes. And to this day I've kind of remembered that. I understand the education, but I'm not sure about the man in white shoes. … My mother certainly approved of it and was fascinated by it. And there is a lovely story that she was a school secretary in North London at Finchley Catholic Grammar School. And the boys there would always talk to her, but she was a very open and warm person, and they would sort of tell her their problems and things like that. And there were two particular boys who were sort of obviously not going to do very well in exams or whatever it was, but they were very interesting and wondered about what they should do with their lives. And my mum said to them, Well, you know, my son's gone into advertising, and if they can employ him, they can certainly employ you. And these two boys did go into advertising and have made a huge success out of it. So thanks to my lovely mum.
“I think it's a very interesting thing in some ways to work in. I think that the point of view that we take is that we are best as an agency when we're working as one. And I think it would be very difficult for us to sort of amalgamate all our points of view under one political party. I think it goes very deep in people's beliefs.”
“I was at Hornsey Art School and I had a wonderful tutor there, a man called Peter Greene, and he sort of observed that I was really probably the worst painter that had ever crossed the threshold of Hornsey Art School, but that I was very much kind of about ideas and I was fascinated by ideas and how they worked and communication. And he suggested that what I should do was to go to design school, become a designer, and and that I almost had a sort of commercial application for my thinking. And it was there that I then had uh another lucky encounter with a man called John Gillard, who was teaching there, who talked about advertising. And I hadn't even really thought about it, although it was surrounded me. I hadn't even noticed it. And he showed me some work from an agency then in America, New York, called Dordane Birmberg, and they were doing the advertising for the Volkswagen Beetle. And he showed me this this press work, and there were thoughts in it, like it's ugly but it works, with a picture of it. And it all of a sudden it was like a switch being thrown on in a darkened room. Th tha it suddenly felt that I thought, That's exactly what I want to do.”
“I did, yes. I was at an agency uh well, we shouldn't we shouldn't go into that really. It was very interesting actually. I I was obviously a complete pain in the bum. There's no question about that. Because I really thought I knew it all and and kind of uh had a kind of vision about where I was going, which to a certain extent I was right. But obviously I hadn't learnt how you put that forward in a in a sort of reasonably complex structure, which any organization is.”
“I think I'm not really sure about my father. My father only ever said two things to me which I've really remembered. One, he said to me, the best thing I can give you is an education, because that can't be taken from you. And the other thing he said to me was, never trust a man who wears white shoes. And to this day I've kind of remembered that. I understand the education, but I'm not sure about the man in white shoes. … My mother certainly approved of it and was fascinated by it. And there is a lovely story that she was a school secretary in North London at Finchley Catholic Grammar School. And the boys there would always talk to her, but she was a very open and warm person, and they would sort of tell her their problems and things like that. And there were two particular boys who were sort of obviously not going to do very well in exams or whatever it was, but they were very interesting and wondered about what they should do with their lives. And my mum said to them, Well, you know, my son's gone into advertising, and if they can employ him, they can certainly employ you. And these two boys did go into advertising and have made a huge success out of it. So thanks to my lovely mum.”
“My book is a wonderful book called The Crock of Gold by James Stevens. And it's a beautiful book about philosophy, about life, about theories, about imagination, about how we confront issues and how we debate them and argue them. And it's just a beautiful book to have around. And if ever you feel a bit low, you just pick it up and read a bit. And there's a lovely line in it, and it says what the heart feels today, the mind understands tomorrow. And I've always remembered that as being very meaningful and powerful. So that's my book.”