Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Former Director General of MI5 who led the Security Service during an unparalleled terrorist threat after 9/11.
On the island
Eight records
Sarabande from English Suite No. 2 in A minor, BWV 807
Well, I've chosen a very reflective, peaceful bit of music to start. It's from The English Sweets by Bach. And this was given me by the board of GCHQ in Cheltenham. As a retirement present. This is a happy memory of friends at Cheltenham, whose professionalism I very much admire.
Kyrie from Requiem in D minor, K. 626
I love opera, and I but I wanted to choose some music that involves singing, some classical music, and I've chosen the Kyrie from Mozart's Requiem. It's a piece of music that I think is extremely beautiful.
I Just Don't Know What to Do with Myself
Well, the next piece of music is a result of my eldest step granddaughter trying to bring my husband and I into the 21st century by introducing white stripes. which we are both now very keen on, to everybody's surprise, and I've just chosen one from their album Elephant.
This is really to represent me in the sixties. The choice was between the Rolling Stones and The Beatles. And I've chosen the Rolling Stones because I always felt they had a bit more edge and a bit more Excitement really than the Beatles in their early days.
String Quintet in C major, D. 956 (opening)
Lindsay String Quartet with Douglas Cummings
I've chosen the beginning of the Schubert string quintet and. It just is the most special bit of chamber music I know.
Well, this is an unusual choice. It's the Sowetto String Quartet. And I went to South Africa about a year after Mandela came to power. And I found it a very extraordinary experience meeting The A and C people who were working with the former security service people to create a new security service. And apparently, really working together, although recently deadly enemies.
When I got married, my husband introduced me to Ella Fitzgerald, who I had hardly come across, and I love her because she can do anything with her voice. And I've chosen a song by Kell Porter, which is one of my favourites.
Symphony No. 7 in A major, Op. 92 (final movement)
Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Carlos Kleiber
I have actually chosen the end of Beethoven's Symphony No. Seven, because this was one of the first pieces of classical music. that I fell in love with, and I couldn't go to my desert island without some Beethoven.
In conversation
Presenter asks
1:14Does it feel strange to be sitting in front of a microphone?
And I've sat in front of microphones, but the idea of it being broadcast to your listeners seems strange,'cause I've only ever spoken to limited audiences.
Presenter asks
1:39Has it felt like an odd way to live your life so privately?
Not really. I used to say that I worked in um personnel. And that was a great turn off. People never asked you any questions about that. I did actually work there for a bit, but not for the decades that I pretended I did.
Presenter asks
2:01Do you watch Spooks?
I did watch it at the beginning, but when the female officer was dropped into a vat of boiling oil in the first series, I thought I can't bear any more of this. And I think that given that we work strictly within the law, that it's potentially quite damaging for the suggestion that we're totally above the law in those sort of programmes.
Presenter asks
The keepsakes
The book
Seamus Heaney and Ted Hughes
As you're going through it you find this sort of wonderful random co-location of poems which uh I really enjoy.
The luxury
a large supply of pencils and pens
so that at least um when I finish reading the Bible and Shakespeare and my poetry and listening to my music, I can scribble away happily.
Do you find [working in the security services] has had a corrosive effect on your view of humankind?
I mean, I I don't see it as paranoia. There are times when it's very entertaining. ... I can remember my father being rather reluctant for me to join the service, um, because he thought you'd always be dealing with the sort of murky side of life. But actually I've stayed because it's been Incredibly rewarding to be involved with teams who have managed, often unsung, To ... protect the UK in various ways.
Presenter asks
4:00Did it cause you at any time sleepless nights?
Well, I'd be wrong to say that I haven't had sleepless nights, but actually I sleep pretty well, and I'm not an anxious person. I think if I was, I would have found my job unbearable at times. So actually I'm snoring away quite happily, even if I've got lots of worries, which recur in the morning.
Presenter asks
5:48Do you remember how you heard about the terrorist attacks in London in July of 2005?
Yes, I do. Um I was in my office and of course at the beginning it was news from journalists and I can remember that feeling ... of He's all heart sinking and knowing. What a tough day it was going to be. ... And I suppose it wasn't till the evening, when I got home quite late, that the emotional impact of that day hit me and probably my colleagues.
Presenter asks
7:45Why, if these people [the 7/7 bombers] were on your radar, were they allowed to go on those trains and buses with their bombs?
I can't say. absolutely categorically that we should have made All the decisions we made. But what I do say is that It's an unreasonable expectation of a security service. that we're big enough and have resources enough. to anticipate. A year before it happens, what anybody who we happen to see in the margin of investigation ... Will do a year later.
Presenter asks
9:28Did you choose to step down from your post because of the pressure and because of the fact that people were criticising the service?
No. I decided well before the July events. That by the time I actually retired, I would have been in one of the top two jobs for a decade. ... So it wasn't because I was frightened of the criticism. In fact, I I wished that the criticism and the end of the trial, which then led to the criticism, had happened while I was still there, so that I could have defended the service.
Presenter asks
15:20How were you recruited to MI5?
I can answer it, but it's um a bit humiliating really, because I met someone dear at a drinks party, the person I met. said why don't you go and talk to a friend of mine who is in the Ministry of Defence and it went on from there.
Presenter asks
20:03How did you feel when you find out that Bettany had been selling secrets to the KGB?
Actually, he didn't manage to sell them. They didn't buy them. He tried to sell them. ... Um a great sense of betrayal. ... The the worst bit was actually before we discovered it was him, when we knew there was a traitor, but we didn't know who it was. And I can remember that very clearly, getting in the lift and looking at the people in the lift and wondering. ... which of your trusted colleagues it was. And that was that was a b the worst time of my career in the service.
“I think that given that we work strictly within the law, that it's potentially quite damaging for the suggestion that we're totally above the law in those sort of programmes.”
“I've always been spurred on not by making money, but by doing something in the public service.”
“The advice I gave was given in private. Whoever is the government of the day, and I've worked for for more than one government, Does deserve that its public servants give it advice. In private, and will not subsequently write their memoirs explaining. What they felt and what they thought and what those debates were.”
“I knew that I would have a adrenaline cold turkey when I stopped, and I knew that to a degree it would feel a little bit like bereavement. But I also don't value those who look backwards. And I think I've moved on.”