Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
First black cleric to become a senior bishop in the Church of England; came from Uganda where he endured Idi Amin.
On the island
Eight records
I Was GladFavourite
My first record really, I was eight days away from my birthday in 1953 and the Queen was actually going to her coronation. We huddled around this little radio. The music came through and as she entered the Abbey there was this amazing bust of things. I didn't understand what they were singing because I didn't speak English at the time but I was glad by Paris. It was just amazing.
Kiri Te Kanawa, Chicago Symphony Orchestra & Chorus, Georg Solti
We used to play the Handles Messiah on it day in, day out. And then I said to Dad, Could we take this into school so that we could teach my friends how to sing the Handles Messiah? So we all learned to sing this thing, and our English wasn't very good.
She came to Uganda in nineteen sixty when her passport had been withdrawn by the South African Government and has been speaking about peace and hope and love. Wonderful woman. When she's on stage, she gives it ... Everything.
Cello Concerto in E minor, Op. 85
Jacqueline du Pré, London Symphony Orchestra, John Barbirolli
I just felt that um listening to music really by uh Jacqueline Dupre, although she then died of multiple sclerosis, which I found ... Really personally very devastating because I loved her playing, I loved her music and listening to her playing uh Elga's um cello concerto in E minor, really, which is a protest about the First World War and how futile it is, and in fact why all wars are futile.
Every time that guy begins to play the instrument, you feel every energy is in it. And the song I want is one that he actually recorded in 1968, What a Wonderful World.
Toccata on 'Now Thank We All Our God'
Egil Hovland Stockata in E major, now thank you all our God, a wonderful starting piece with a chorale melody had on top of the brilliant texture of the organ because in Tarsil restored our organ, which was a Hil Norman and Beard, and it was played. It was also played when I became a Bishop of Birmingham.
In 1984, I was very, very ill. Went down with pneumonia and was in hospital for two and a half months. But on Christmas Eve, the young Ahle Jones was singing and wonderful, holy night. And I thought, I'm very ill, but yeah, I can have hope. I can have belief in the future being bright.
My my last record really is is because of fifty years of my existence really and many, many, many people who in my life have actually supported me. ... And there's nothing which really can help me to say thank you than this wonderful um song of Shaleep Bathy, who says thank you for the years.
In conversation
Presenter asks
6:19What kind of house did you live in [as a child]?
It was a four-bedroomed house, and so you can imagine the parents had their bedroom, and the rest of us had to share. Um, I mean, I was raised in a place where all my clothes until I was about eighteen were hand me downs. So I looked forward actually to Easter because you already got a new pair of short trousers.
Presenter asks
7:26What sort of British influences were there and how strong were they [in 1950s Uganda]?
Everything made in Britain was the best thing. If your clothes came from Britain, if the things we're using in school came from Britain, we're very good. But also, we're aspiring to learn English, aspiring to do things English.
Presenter asks
13:37What kinds of cases were you trying [under Idi Amin's regime]?
They were charged with treason, one of them, and four for imprisonment, and others for bringing the government in disrepute, whatever have you. And there was no evidence whatsoever. So I waited every day to see whether they were soldiers or not, and one day they were not, and the prison wasn't far. So I summoned them to come back and said, You've done three weeks in prison, that's a sufficient sentence. But then I said, I want to see you in my chambers afterwards. And I said, You better run out of this country as quickly as possible.
The keepsakes
The book
C. S. Lewis
because as an adult when I read them, I thought, this is fantastic stuff. That noble Lion Aslan really teaches the children that loyalty, discipline, and determination in the end is the only way you can conquer evil
The luxury
I was going to take a kitchen because one day, who knows, you could become a castaway and I may entertain you
Presenter asks
16:09How did you bear it [being imprisoned and tortured by Idi Amin's forces]?
I just suddenly found my the guy who was in charge said he was God. And he's in charge of everything else. And and I thought, once somebody says they are God, the only way you deal with them is by not arguing. But also I suddenly discovered that my Christian upbringing was very good because I was reciting the Psalms and they came to lunch. And I think I would have been next in line really, but they came to lunch. They forgot where they had stopped.
Presenter asks
21:23How much did you feel that the Met had improved in that interim period of four years [between the Macpherson report and the Damilola Taylor review]?
In the Damera Taylor Review, nearly all the twenty three recommendations which were geared towards the Met, they had actually put them in place. The case of Damirola Taylor and ending up the way it ended up in the main is not because there was any racism in it, it is not because they were not professional, it is not because they were not preaching it appropriately.
Presenter asks
28:36If you were Archbishop of Canterbury, what would you do over the course of the next five years to bring [more black and working-class people into church leadership]?
I suspect in the end, rural models are important. I mean, when I left Stutney, there were quite a number of black clergy there, and it's a matter of time before another black person probably is appointed as a bishop in the Church of England. So I think that what we need to do, though, is to recognize that the Church is supposed to look like what heaven is going to be in the future. It will be a rainbow church.
“Saint Augustine said something wonderful that God gave us music that we may pray without words. And I think music touches the real soul of everybody.”
“I mean, I remember when I heard that Janana Room had been killed, me stupidly saying uh to my wife Margaret, You kill our friend. I shall take his place stupidly, but probably now that I look back on it and say, Why should I ever do such a thing? But I did say it, and and here I am.”
“I mean I think we we live in a society at the moment where what is right in our eyes is what is important. But I was raised to believe still there's time to tell people that actually together as a community we can sort out our family life, sort out our policing, sort out education, sort out our health, provided the concern is duty and not simply rights. Because you know rights without responsibility is a nightmare.”
“I mean, there's a wonderful African saying that anybody who stands out in a crowd is because they are standing on the shoulders of others. I am where I am because people in this country, in Uganda, have helped me.”