Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Former British Army officer who rose to Chief of the Defence Staff, led campaigns in East Timor, Sierra Leone, and Afghanistan, and advised against intervention
On the island
Eight records
My brother, Nick, who was also in the army, was passionate about Elvis Presley, and so the first music I can really remember reverberating round our house was Elvis Presley.
I've always had a huge interest, almost passion, for Russia. I studied at university. I think we lost a huge opportunity in the 90s to bring Russia back into the community of nations properly. And it sort of captures what I feel about Russia. Depths, but also great joy.
Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein II
I loved South Pacific. It was the first LP my mother ever bought and I particularly like 'There's nothing like a dame'.
I grew to love pipe music. I didn't much like the dancing... But ever since then, Scotland and Scottish regiments and pipe music in particular has been a part of my military career and I have grown to love it in this number in particular.
My West African HomeFavourite
Peter Penfold and the Milton Margai School for the Blind Choir
Sierra Leone is hugely important to me. ... this song, written by the wonderfully brave British High Commissioner called Peter Penfold, who is a patron of the school, reminds me of a country I love.
It's a poignant moment to think of a number of friends and comrades, of many of whom obviously I didn't know, who didn't return from operations.
I have got on many, many planes to go off to various places, and this wonderful song by John Denver seems to capture all that that's involved in.
Maria Callas and Giuseppe Di Stefano
One of the great things that I discovered there was the love for opera. And here is a piece from La Boheme.
In conversation
Presenter asks
1:14How easy is it to hang on to your belief in being a moral soldier given the horrors of war you've witnessed?
Well, actually I think often it's easier than you might think as you're in a country that's um bedevilled by awful people and atrocities and something stirs in me and I think most decent people and it adds an extra imperative to simply following your orders and allows you to use your initiative to do a bit more than perhaps people might have expected.
Presenter asks
2:35You've described yourself as a seat-of-the-pants soldier. Tell me more about that.
I see you've done your research well. Well, I think when you get to a place like Sierra Leone's Timor with lots of careful preparation and clear orders, inevitably the situation is going to be different. And you've got to be able to follow your instinct as opposed to just what you've been told to do on top of experience and analysis.
Presenter asks
3:05Is the concept of 'clout, never dribble' analogous to American shock and awe tactics? You go in hard?
It's very similar. It doesn't mean that every time you go somewhere to try to help a country or put tyrants down or whatever one's trying to do, that one has to go in at that scale. But it's relative to the challenge. I'm afraid too often I've been sent somewhere with inadequate resources, too few troops, not enough equipment. If a politician, a leader, a statesman, as I hope politicians would view themselves, sends the British Armed Forces off to foreign lands, they have to have the tools to do the job that they've been asked to do. So I would say to soldiers and commanders below me, if you're going to do something within your resources, make sure you do it properly.
The keepsakes
Presenter asks
6:17You counselled against intervention in Libya and Syria. Given the evidence of civilian suffering, how comfortable are you with that clinical position?
Well, to be fair, what I said and what I keep saying to people is if you're going to intervene, do it properly. If you only do it half-heartedly or with insufficient resources, for example, giving some help to the Syrian rebels, but not the help that will make a decisive difference, you will actually aggravate things and you'll certainly aggravate the humanitarian situation. We are doing quite a lot. ... No. And there's a huge risk of contagion throughout the region. Wonderful countries like Jordan and Lebanon and now Iraq are suffering because the West as a whole have not put in the scale of assistance that those countries require, let alone into Syria itself. So it's a nuanced opposition. I actually have huge sympathy for the Syrian opposition groups and most of all for the people of Syria. But actually if you only do a little, then it's going to aggravate their plight. And I felt morally there is therefore a case for saying you better not do it at all. Just get this blooming thing over with.
Presenter asks
19:18In Sierra Leone, given your instructions were to evacuate British nationals, what did you decide to do when you felt the country was at risk of collapse?
Well, I had been there in 1999 and back in twice in January and February, so I knew the country and that's important. It wasn't a sort of maverick act. I knew the country better than certainly people in London, and I'd seen some horrible sights the year before, and I wasn't going to be involved in allowing it to happen again. And there was a real risk that the RUF, who had brutalized the country twice previously, that that would be repeated. So my instinct and sense of moral obligation to the people there was such that I decided to not disobey my orders, but to adapt them. And so we fought back with a polyglot lot of Sierra Leoneans, the Revolutionary United Front, to buy time for the UN to do what they were there to do.
“If you're going to intervene, do it properly.”
“I decided to not disobey my orders, but to adapt them.”
“Be it on our conscience.”
“I think it did worry them more than I realized.”