Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Solicitor and former Chief Crown Prosecutor for North West England, best known for prosecuting the Rochdale grooming gangs and violent crimes against women and
On the island
Eight records
This Woman's WorkFavourite
this song reminded me so much of what she had done and what she kept on doing without complaint
this song reminds me that all of us have suffered a lot of loss in the last year or so, but that the person that has left you would not want you to cry for them
this song really tells me and reminds me regularly that we should always see the person and not just the number
for me it's about the fact that women have been put in chains, that we men and it's men all the time sadly that want to restrict the choices that women make
this song really brings that home to me. It may be a whisper, as Tracy says, but actually, it can be so, so loud
In conversation
Presenter asks
2:06Why do you say you don't like lawyers generally, even though your heroes are lawyers?
Uh because lawyers love their own language. We have our ultraviolets and we have a bit more Latin we throw in. We are full of words, quite frankly, that want to distance ourselves from the people that we're meant to be providing support and advice to. And I don't like that. I prefer to speak as I would expect to be received.
Presenter asks
3:11Did the soft skills of empathy and listening come naturally to you when you were starting out?
You're not trained in law school to be sensitive, to show empathy, to demonstrate humanity even. Hopefully you've got it, but it's absolutely essential that you're able to listen, that you're able to understand. You never really understand a person until you can put yourself in their shoes, inside their skin and walk around in it. And I have always wanted to do that. And, you know, I've cried a lot during my legal career because these people have been touched by real, real pain. But at the same time, I get tremendous satisfaction in giving them something that they probably lacked before, which is justice.
Presenter asks
7:00Your father made it clear that he didn't have confidence in the authorities, didn't he?
The keepsakes
The book
Harper Lee
It's a story of racial injustice. It's a story of justice. Full stop. ... There's a great line. It's when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway. That is the most courageous thing.
The luxury
I did teach myself how to use one ... I would love to be able to strum a few tunes while I'm out there.
I was beaten so often. On one occasion, I was beaten by three guys who used my head as a footballer. I came home and my father attended to my wounds. And my 13-year-old boy, I was desperate for him to do something, tell the police, do something. And he said, there's no justice. Nobody's prepared to listen to us. And I had to challenge him on that. But at that time, he was right. And the idea that people from minority communities would be listened to was anathema to minority communities. And so I was taken by what he wanted to do, which is to provide a voice to those who were unheard. And in many, many respects, that's how I built my career doing the same thing. And I can clearly see where it came from. It came from him and from her.
Presenter asks
14:15Why do you think you became a target for bullying at school?
I think it's because, you know, I wasn't really engaging with people. You know, I I'd lock myself away to study and stuff. That meant that people really weren't getting to know me apart from one or two people. And there were many occasions in which I was being bullied. Whenever I played rugby, the moment I got the ball, somebody would shout Get the packy and I'd have to throw the ball as far away as possible to protect my life. There were other occasions. I remember my mum bought me a new blazer, but rather than wait till September, she gave it to me in June, so before the end of term. And I turned stupidly turned up in my new blazer in the last week of term. And these guys just simply grabbed it and ripped off the sleeve. I went home. I didn't tell my mum this, and I don't think she ever knew. But I got her needle and thread and sewed that little sleeve back on.
Presenter asks
24:06What made you reverse the decision not to prosecute the Rochdale grooming case?
The view of the police and prosecutors at that time was that the victim was so broken and that no jury would ever believe her somehow. That was the view taken anyway by those who dealt with the case back then. But I thought, hang on a minute, I believe her. You know, I watched the video disclosures. And there was a problem because we had decided not to prosecute based on her evidence. How could I put this? Now we had 47 victims and we had nine perpetrators. How could we put this before a court? How could we say to a jury, remember as a jury, we want you to believe this victim. We didn't believe her, but we want you to believe her. Well, this was when I made it very clear that what we do is we admit we got it wrong. She didn't get it wrong. We as an institution got it wrong. The police got it wrong. We got the whole issue of grooming gangs wrong. We need to put it right. And that's how you build confidence. And that's how we're able to build the case and put the case before a jury. But it was really, really painful to a lot of agencies to realize how poor they had been. Everybody responsible for the safeguarding of these young girls had failed them.
Presenter asks
26:56What emotions did you feel hearing the verdicts in the Rochdale case?
There's no elation. There is satisfaction that the job has been done properly and correctly. There is satisfaction that more victims and witnesses will now hopefully come forward and they too will get justice. There is satisfaction that we can do our job better and learn from our mistakes of the past. So I don't have any elation. I've never celebrated a successful case because, as I said, nobody should be harmed in the first place.
“I was beaten so often. On one occasion, I was beaten by three guys who used my head as a footballer. I came home and my father attended to my wounds. And my 13-year-old boy, I was desperate for him to do something, tell the police, do something. And he said, there's no justice. Nobody's prepared to listen to us.”
“I'm carrying her body, without knowing that, across the Channel and arriving in Dover until the authorities take her. I looked at her face, I stroked her hair. Lauren, nobody's gonna die in my watch again. That's what I felt, and that's what I've always felt.”
“I had far-right thugs outside of my house. I had to teach my children how to use the panic alarm that had been placed in the house. My kids could only go to school in a taxi for three months because that was a safe and secure thing for them. My whole family was under attack.”
“I went to see the one he was found not guilty of and I said to her, I'm really sorry that I couldn't give you closure. And she looked me in the eyes and she said, you gave me closure the moment that you believed me. My recovery started the moment that you believed me. That has never left me.”