Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
1 appearance
Child refugee turned Labour peer who tabled the Dubs Amendment to bring unaccompanied child refugees to safety.
On the island
Eight records
In conversation
Presenter asks
2:05In your maiden speech in the House of Lords you said you were hoping to get rid of some bad habits from the Commons. What were they exactly?
Well, there's a different mood in the in the Lords. It it's a bit gentler, still very political. But, you know, I was I was trying to, I think, ingratiate myself with it with it with a new environment. They always look a bit suspiciously at at at people who've been in the commons. … Yeah, and people who think they know it all. And I I just wanted to come at it humbly, knowing that I had a lot to learn, even f even though I knew about legislation. I didn't want to go in implying I knew it all.
Presenter asks
3:05What was the all-nighter debate that taught you an important lesson in your early days in the Commons?
I remember when I was first elected to the commons. I'd been in a meeting in Battersea in my constituency and I got back the Commons and I walked to the members' entrance. I was a new MP, you know, full of being a new MP. And I got in. I went in very pompously. I said, the policewoman at the door said, good evening, sir. And I said, good evening. I'm hoping to speak tonight. And she said, yes, sir. Will it make any difference? And I I picked myself off the floor and made my speech and as I drove home at six in the morning I realized it made not the slightest difference and I thought the public must think we were just daft.
The keepsakes
The book
Émile Zola
It was a book about northern France and the coal miners and the lives they lived. And it it was a very moving book, very powerful book. ... I look forward to reading it again.
The luxury
walking boots and a waterproof
I'd like a pair of walking boots and a waterproof. The reason for the waterproof is that with climate change coming maybe the desert island won't be much of a desert for too long so it may rain there as well. It's best to be prepared. I'd like some walking boots because I would like to keep fit and I would like to reminisce about the Lake District when I'm on my desert island.
Presenter asks
What do you remember about getting on the kinder transport train in June 1939?
She said, I'd be going on a train and the train would take me eventually take me to England, to London, where my father would meet me. She came to the station and I could still in my mind's eye see her standing there with other anxious parents saying goodbye to their children. There was, I know, perhaps 150, 200 children on that train. And I was one of the youngest, if not the youngest, and we were saying goodbye to our parents. In my mind's eye, I can still see a German soldier with swatsker armbands and so on. Yes, there were. And of course, on the train journey as well, German soldiers would occasionally look in the compartment. … Sure, I was frightened. I think I was bewildered, bewildered and confused, and didn't really know what was going on. I had no friends on the train. I just sat there, uh, hard wooden seats and so on. But, you know, as a six year old, that's not that's not important.
Presenter asks
24:51How did you get interested in politics?
I think from a very early age I was trying to puzzle out why what had happened to me had happened. I thought about it, I said to myself, well if evil men can cause such terrible things to happen, evil men in politics, maybe politics could also be used for the better. So I was passionately interested in politics. My mum took me to a boarding house near Blackpool when the election results, 1945 election results were coming out. … I went to the main square, and the lunchtime score was something like Labour 120 and the Conservative 30. And I heard a voice say, oh my God, it's the end of England. … But no, I was very interested in what was happening, the mines being nationalised. And then, of course, I was in hospital in Stockport Infirmary, and the consultant came down the wards. … And as he was walking by, I said, just a minute, I've got a question to ask. He said, what is it? I said, are we having a party? He said, what for? Well, the hospital's ours. It's the first day the hospital's ours. And he walked away. And I was the only child in the ward. And the other people said, hey, Alf, what's going on there? I explained. The hospital was ours. It was the day for celebration. And the health service started that day.
Presenter asks
36:49What affected you most about what you saw in the refugee camps in Calais and Greece before your amendment?
I was very moved when I talked to some of the child refugees in particular, when they told me their stories, when they told me how they'd had these long journeys, the terrible experiences fighting, death of their families and so on, the terrible experiences that they had escaped from. People sometimes ask me, what's it like today for refugees coming to Britain compared to what it was like in 1938-39? Well, I think it's got a bit less sympathetic. Don't forget Britain was terrific in 1938-39. Britain accepted 10,000 children on the kinder transport, unaccompanied child refugees. There were arguments in the House of Commons, I've read them in Hansard, about whether we should take them. But the fact is, we arrived as kinder transport children, and I think on the whole we were made pretty welcome and given fantastic opportunities. Now, I would like to feel that refugee children coming today are given the same welcome and the same opportunities that I had.
Presenter asks
46:05When you think back to that little boy who arrived at Liverpool Street station with a dog tag around his neck, what would he think of the life you've built?
I wouldn't have believed anything. I wouldn't have believed it possible. You know, I I think this country has given me great opportunities and I would like to feel that refugees coming here today will get the same sense of being accepted and given the same opportunities as happened to me.
“And I I picked myself off the floor and made my speech and as I drove home at six in the morning I realized it made not the slightest difference and I thought the public must think we were just daft.”
“He hated war. I mean he got medals, he'd been gassed and all that, but he hated war. And he never let me play with guns or tanks or anything like that. I could have tractors. I couldn't have anything at all to do with war.”
“She did tell me they threw her down the stairs and said, exit permit refused. And they threw her passport after her. And she'd landed in a heap at the bottom, and the first thing she noticed was the passport was still there, rather than was anything broken, or how damaged she was. That gave her hope, because with a passport, one still had some hope.”
“I remember then when the bombing came and they shouted at me that I was an evacuee. And I shouted back, I'm not an evacuee, I'm a refugee. But survival demands one learns English very quickly, because you can't survive in the playground without speaking the language. Survival means get on with it and learn the language.”
“What I found, without getting too emotional about it, was that there was my mother sleeping on the sofa of some friends in Manchester. And I was worried that somehow I'd lose touch with her and I'd never find her again, because I didn't have any sense that I had a home. I think that's probably, looking back upon it, that's probably what hit me and I felt a bit lost about it, because one likes to feel, even if one is away at a school, that there's somewhere where one belongs at home. And I had no sense of a home at all at the time.”
“I wouldn't have believed anything. I wouldn't have believed it possible. You know, I I think this country has given me great opportunities and I would like to feel that refugees coming here today will get the same sense of being accepted and given the same opportunities as happened to me.”