Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Castaway
2 appearances
Founder and director of the Equal Justice Initiative, a lawyer specializing in death penalty appeals, children's rights, and issues of race and poverty.
On the island
Eight records
chosen because if stranded on an island he might want 'to get down just a little bit', and Stevie Wonder's music had a spiritual quality that motivated him
When I am laid in earth (Dido's Lament)
chosen to accompany images of children sentenced to life in prison; admired Leontyne Price as someone who 'beat the odds, coming from the segregated South'
chosen because the Fairfield Four remind him of the male choruses he used to play with growing up; the notion of a 'safety zone' has always been with him
chosen as 'extraordinarily beautiful music' to be calmed by after challenging days; 'I don't think anyone composed short, beautiful little moments in music better than Beethoven'
Miles Davis (credited to Bill Evans)
chosen as one of his favourite jazz tunes of all time; jazz was an important outlet when he was in law school
chosen because Hathaway is an artist he loves listening to; 'You don't wonder about… where's the talent? You don't wonder about that when you hear Donnie Hathaway sing'
chosen because Tatum is 'the greatest piano player of the twentieth century… an American genius'; growing up playing the piano he was always preoccupied with Tatum's playing
Precious MemoriesFavourite
Aretha Franklin with Rev. James Cleveland and the Southern California Community Choir
chosen because he grew up surrounded by gospel music and couldn't go to an island without something that brought back that history
In conversation
Presenter asks
1:39How challenging is it for you to apply yourself to these cases that are very distressing, and to work on behalf of people who have done terrible things?
Well, it's difficult work, there's no question about it, but it's also deeply engaging. … And this idea that we are all more than the worst thing we've ever done is very resonant for me. I think if somebody tells a lie, they're not just a liar. I think if they take something that doesn't belong to them, they're not just a thief. And I think even if you kill someone, you're not just a killer. And I actually take great pride in standing and advocating for the humanity of people.
Presenter asks
6:43Archbishop Desmond Tutu called you 'America's Nelson Mandela'. How does that make you feel?
I'm obviously deeply honored by that. I think what he said was America's young Mandela, and I believe he was just comparing the legal work that Nelson Mandela did when he was a young attorney. … I don't think we have confronted our history of racial inequality in a meaningful way. And I think we have been burdened by our failure to deal with that history. And I believe America is a place where we need truth and reconciliation, just as they had in South Africa.
Presenter asks
19:11The keepsakes
The luxury
Tell me about the very first time you visited Death Row. How old were you, and who were you there to see?
I was a law student, pretty disillusioned with law school. … And they asked me to go down to death row and tell a death row prisoner that he wasn't at risk of execution anytime in the next year. And I was really nervous. … The first death row prisoner I ever met … started to sing. … And he started singing this hymn we used to sing when we were kids. … And all of a sudden, I believed that maybe I could get condemned people to higher ground. … it changed my relationship to the law because then I went back to law school and I needed to understand everything and you couldn't get me out of the law library.
Presenter asks
25:16When you go to visit these very young people, these children in adult jails, what do you see? Paint me a picture.
Well, you know, it's heartbreaking. The relationships tend to be very familial. They don't look at me as their lawyer. They look at me as a parent or as a sibling. They're much more emotional. They're much more dependent. They're much more desperate. … I am absolutely persuaded that all children are children. All children are children. And that's not a legal argument, but it's the essence of the legal case that we are bringing.
Presenter asks
28:46Are you ever tempted by a political life yourself?
Uh not really, no. For me right now, political [life] would be very restraining … I'm a product of a civil rights movement that was largely sustained by the courts. … And what I like about being a lawyer and going to courts is that sometimes you can win even against the wishes of the majority, and that still makes for a healthier democracy.
Presenter asks
32:12Truthfully, what do you think your grandmother would make of what you're doing with your life?
You know, I think she'd be really, really proud. I think she'd be … really, really proud. … My grandmother made me promise three things … And then she made me promise me to do the right thing, even when it was the hard thing. And that's the one I'd want to talk with her about and at least try to persuade her that maybe I've done that.
“Each of us is more than the worst thing that we have ever done.”
“For every nine people that we have executed in America, we've identified one innocent person on death row. And that rate of error, in my judgment, ought to cause us to stop the death penalty, not because we think it's morally unacceptable necessarily, but because you can't tolerate that kind of error. If for every nine planes that took off, one crashed, nobody would fly.”
“I've had clients spend most of the entire visit trying to encourage me, worried about my mental state as I'm dealing with some complex issue. And so there is a dynamic, even on death row, that affirms my very basic hopes and aspirations for what human beings can and should do.”
“My grandmother used to say to me I was terrorized every day of my life, and so I had to be smart.”
“I am absolutely persuaded that all children are children. All children are children. And that's not a legal argument, but it's the essence of the legal case that we are bringing.”
“And then she made me promise me to do the right thing, even when it was the hard thing.”