Ben Travers

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy five, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

Our castaway this week is a playwright whose farces have become classics, Ben Travers.

Presenter0:36

Ben, are you a gregarious man? If you had to, could you adjust yourself to mendliness?

Ben Travers0:41

Oh, hello.

Ben Travers0:43

I'm very good company for myself.

Presenter0:45

What would you be happiest to have got away from?

Ben Travers0:49

Well at the present moment I am eighty eight.

Presenter0:51

Yes.

Ben Travers0:53

I feel

Presenter0:57

Or barefoot on hot sand, warm sand, I think you'll find them very, very much better.

Ben Travers1:01

It's just a nice warm island, isn't it?

Presenter1:02

Very very nice.

Ben Travers1:03

And Venonize.

Presenter1:04

One

Presenter1:05

Are you fond of

Ben Travers1:06

Oh yes, yes, I love music, all kinds of music, but not musical instruments played solo, except the piano. Yes. What was your plan in choosing them? Are you looking back?

Ben Travers1:18

Uh oh yes. Looking back on uh

Ben Travers1:21

composers uh that I have enjoyed given me pleasure, and also uh personal reminiscences and performers who have given me pleasure.

Presenter1:30

Yes, yes, you are.

Presenter1:32

Memories go back a long way back to the nineties. I remember you once told me that you saw W G Grace score a century on on the cricket.

Ben Travers1:34

Thank you.

Ben Travers1:39

I did. I saw W. G. Grace Peckham. I saw G. L. Jessop's famous 104 at the Oval. I was quite old then. That was 1902.

Presenter1:48

Yeah.

Ben Travers1:48

Uh

Presenter1:49

And in the theater?

Ben Travers1:49

In the theatre. My parents were very good. They went nothing to do with the stage, but they were very fond of the theatre.

Ben Travers1:55

And I saw about six or seven of the old Rory Lane pantomimes, the Dan Leno and Herbert Campbell. I I saw Murray Tempest in The Geisha at

Speaker 12:06

Yeah.

Ben Travers2:07

Dalius Theatre before the turn of the century. I saw

Ben Travers2:11

William Gillette's performance of Sherlock Holmes, the original one with

Ben Travers2:17

Sir Charles Chaplin as the button's boy of Billy.

Presenter2:21

Yes.

Ben Travers2:22

And, of course, not only the theatre, but then there were some wonderful shows, the Crystal Palace, where I saw Blondin. Well, the tightrope walker. The tightrope walker. I saw him walk the whole length of the r inside the roof of the Crystal Palace.

Ben Travers2:36

a cook anomaly in the middle of it. He was the daddy of Wire Walkers. Of course there are I dare say there have been greater since his time, but he was the daddy of'em, just like WG was the daddy of greaters and

Ben Travers2:48

John Roberts, daddy of

Ben Travers2:51

Billiard players, few years later, Crippin, the daddy of murderers.

Presenter2:56

What's the first record you're going to play us?

Ben Travers3:00

Well, Wagner died only three years before I was born and um

Ben Travers3:04

I would certainly take a bit of argument. I'd take the prelude to Act Three of Loewencrin.

Presenter4:13

The prelude to Act Three of Lohengrin, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Eugen Joachim. What's your second disc, Ben?

Ben Travers4:21

But Second Overlist is uh in great contrast. It's

Ben Travers4:25

Light opera, it's Radigor. And of all the performers in Gilbert and Salgeman operas, I think.

Ben Travers4:34

Martin Green.

Ben Travers4:35

The chap who died only in February, alas, he was a friend of mine, a very nice man, but apart from that I always thought he was the most

Ben Travers4:42

Present performer

Ben Travers4:44

of all and

Ben Travers4:46

My second best was Leonard Osborne, and in this little bit of bloody gore.

Ben Travers4:52

We have first Leonard Osborne, then Martin Greene, and finally Margaret Mitchell.

Ben Travers5:00

And

Ben Travers5:01

It's a nice little piece, and I like to hear those two chaps sing again.

Ben Travers5:18

Uh

Speaker 35:24

And again, I let you know, I let you know Insane all I so should mind But should be your joy

Speaker 35:35

Peace is all to make you high

Speaker 35:38

Oh no, that does not know his mind.

Speaker 16:03

It's my

Presenter6:07

The trio from the first act of Radicor. What part of the country do you come from?

Ben Travers6:12

Well, I was born in Hendon and I lived round about London most of my time until the First War. What did you want to be at that time?

Ben Travers6:21

either an actor or playwright.

Presenter6:23

You had firmly made up your mind while you were still at school.

Ben Travers6:25

Oh yes. Before then.

Presenter6:27

Yes. But you didn't start right away.

Ben Travers6:30

No, I hadn't uh shots at it. I used to sit up all night writing plays and telling about

Presenter6:35

Yeah.

Presenter6:36

What was your job?

Ben Travers6:37

No, it was it to do with the the city, uh wholesale, uh provision merchant, Joseph Travers and sons, an old family firm. And I was when I came back I was there for

Speaker 16:45

Uh

Ben Travers6:50

Some time after Singapore when I came back from Singapore. How were you doing in Singapore?

Presenter6:54

Yeah.

Ben Travers6:55

Nothing.

Ben Travers6:57

Well, I was representing the firm, but I didn't do very much. I made a few bad debts with Chinese grocers.

Presenter6:57

I was

Ben Travers7:04

But uh no, I didn't enjoy commerce and was cerp certainly not cut out for it. Uh I was mixed up with the dried fruit market, used to walk about the city carrying enormous bundles of samples of currants and raisins.

Ben Travers7:19

which was with supposed two or four prospective customers who were very unwilling to buy them. So I gave most of them to the city policeman on point duty.

Presenter7:29

Very advisable. Then you went into publishing, having failed to sell your dried fruit.

Ben Travers7:33

Smelled.

Ben Travers7:34

I I had an awful stroke of luck and got in with John Lane, Bodley Head, who was a very leading artistic publisher in those days. And I was with him for three years before the war, and that was a wonderful period, a great change. And I I met the most it was a great time for uh uh English literature, HG Wells, Arnold Bennett.

Ben Travers7:56

Chesterton, Sake, Arato, France came over, and I met him extraordinary. And

Ben Travers8:04

Uh that William Locke

Ben Travers8:06

And your H. DeVerstackpool, who gave you your island. And

Presenter8:11

And

Speaker 18:12

Uh

Ben Travers8:12

Oh, above all, Stephen Leacock, who is a dear friend of mine.

Presenter8:16

Of course the the First World War interrupted yourself.

Ben Travers8:18

Well, then after three years of that I had to go

Presenter8:19

Yeah.

Ben Travers8:21

The war, yes.

Presenter8:22

You went into the Royal Naval Air Service.

Presenter8:25

I believe you dropped the first torpedo ever dropped from a land based plane.

Ben Travers8:30

I did, yes. More by luck than good management. I I did that. I also flew a triplane at one time. That was not a rather a rare thing nowadays.

Presenter8:41

Uh

Ben Travers8:41

Oh, yes, I I had some if

Presenter8:43

Experiences There's a story that you were sent up to deal with a zeppelin with a rifle.

Ben Travers8:48

That was uh that was the first Zeppelin raid over London.

Ben Travers8:53

the end of May, nineteen fifteen. And uh the London air defence was very sketchy at that time. mister Winston Churchill, who was first Lord of the Admiralty, I think, came down and inspected me, and I had a rifle. I was the gunner, you see, of this uh airplane.

Ben Travers9:10

And we had a ceiling of 4,000 feet, and the zepp came over at 12,000.

Ben Travers9:16

And when it was half way back over the North Sea we were sent up to chase it and shoot it down with the rifle. We only got as far as Hatfield, where we had the most frightful crash.

Presenter9:26

Crashes, of course, were part of the business of flying in those days. How many crashes did you have? Eight. And you walked away from all of them? Oh, yes, sir.

Ben Travers9:33

Oh, I've oh, still.

Presenter9:35

That part was well bad. The others I all walked away from.

Presenter9:38

Well, let's have your third record, Ben. What's that to be?

Ben Travers9:41

Well uh

Ben Travers9:43

And I'll always be awfully fond of orchestral waltzes.

Ben Travers9:47

I think the

Ben Travers9:49

The orchestral waltz which tops the lot, or operatic waltz, is the Rose and Cavalier one by Richard Strauss, and I think that's the one I'd pick along.

Speaker 110:16

Hi the law I know.

Presenter10:19

Yeah

Speaker 310:31

Yeah.

Speaker 310:32

Damn.

Speaker 310:37

Myth

Presenter10:42

Toil in love

Speaker 110:49

Yeah.

Speaker 110:50

Yeah

Presenter11:02

Waltz from Der Rosencavalier, the Berlin State Opera Orchestra, and that excellent fine bass was Alexander Kipney's. When the armistice was signed, did you go back to publishing?

Presenter11:13

Do you

Ben Travers11:14

I would have liked to have, but I didn't, fortunately. Uh John Lane had turned his

Ben Travers11:20

Um can sell into a limited company then.

Ben Travers11:23

And although we made very good terms with the old boy, um there wasn't room for me, so I had been married during the First War and um

Ben Travers11:32

My wife and I went down to live in Somerset and I started writing plays. Uh

Presenter11:38

You wrote novels, first of all.

Ben Travers11:39

I wrote novels, yes, well well, actually I wrote a play first and

Ben Travers11:44

It was accepted and while it was um waiting for it I start I wrote novels, I wrote two or three novels. Yes. Was your first play a success? Well, yes, it was uh all right in those days, around about seven or eight, nine months, I think a hundred and sixty-seven shows, I can't remember. Yes, it was uh uh very lucky about that because in the war I'd made great friends with Lawrence Irving, who is still my great friend, and he is the son of HB and Dorothea Baird, the original triple. Well, HB was dead by that time, but uh he sent it to his mother who gave it to Golding Bright, who at that time was the leading play agent in London. And he spotted that I'd written it for Charles Hawtrey.

Ben Travers12:25

And um he uh

Ben Travers12:28

sent it to Hortree and blame me if Horty didn't come into his office and give him two post dated cheques for it.

Ben Travers12:35

And eventually, who ought to produce it was Syron Board and Billy Hale, who was.

Ben Travers12:41

a dear friend of the family, and still is.

Ben Travers12:44

So that was my first experience in the theatre.

Presenter12:48

And then the second experience was that very successful fast cooker in the network.

Ben Travers12:50

And it's

Ben Travers12:52

Well, uh the next straight player, yes, that was uh at the Aldwich in nineteen twenty five. Uh

Presenter12:59

Ray Flynn, Tom Walls, Robertson Hare.

Ben Travers13:02

Well, Robinson, yes, he uh Mary Bruff and of course uh cook with the rest, E. Bernardo, who's

Presenter13:05

Yeah.

Ben Travers13:09

Absolute darling. And uh

Ben Travers13:11

She was in several of my plays and films.

Presenter13:14

And that was followed by Rocker and Nook.

Ben Travers13:17

Locker in lock, yes.

Presenter13:18

Which has been a success all over the world, I should say.

Ben Travers13:20

Well, yes, it's a it's got one set, you see, and it's uh jolly little story, I think. And uh

Presenter13:25

Yeah.

Ben Travers13:26

Yes, uh

Ben Travers13:28

I remember in nineteen twenty six there was general strike.

Ben Travers13:32

and all the theatres were closed. Tom Wals and Ray Flynn came down to stay with me and my wife at Burnham, and I read them the first act of Rook Ray Nook. And it was settled that

Presenter13:43

And that was followed by Thark.

Ben Travers13:45

Tha plunder

Presenter13:46

Plunder is to be done at the National Theatre. It is, yes. I said your fances were classics now.

Ben Travers13:52

Well

Presenter13:53

That's the

Presenter13:54

What's the basic principle in writing first?

Ben Travers13:59

Don't be funny.

Ben Travers14:01

Write it seriously. Serious, straightforward, honest to goodness, recognizable types of human beings.

Ben Travers14:09

in dire situations.

Ben Travers14:12

The situations are the ridiculous, the farcical side of it.

Presenter14:15

Uh

Ben Travers14:15

Yes.

Ben Travers14:20

Mock Pune Man

Presenter14:21

Yeah.

Presenter14:23

Yes, I'm sure that's excellent advice. Right, record number four, please. What's that?

Ben Travers14:29

I'm very fond of the piano solo, and of all pianists I've ever heard.

Ben Travers14:36

I think uh

Ben Travers14:37

Arthur Rubinstein.

Ben Travers14:39

is my favorite, but

Ben Travers14:41

I also like

Ben Travers14:43

The extreme contrast in piano playing, and I'd like to play if I can.

Ben Travers14:48

Couple of records. First Rubinstein playing

Ben Travers14:51

A delightful little excerpt from uh

Ben Travers14:55

Uh Schumann.

Ben Travers14:56

which is called in English is called soaring.

Ben Travers15:01

Can we have that? Yes, of course.

Presenter15:49

Rubenstein playing one of the Schumann fantasy pieces, Soaring.

Presenter15:54

Now what's the other piano piece you'll be able to tell us about?

Ben Travers15:56

Well, this is, as I said, a complete contrast.

Ben Travers16:01

Of all those American caps, Fat Swallow has always been my favorite. And I would like to have Fat Swala playing

Ben Travers16:12

My favorite Pat's wallet number. I'm going to sit right down and write myself a letter.

Presenter17:18

Trout Swallow.

Presenter17:19

After you had had great success at the Old Witch with your farces, you you turned most of them into films, didn't you?

Presenter17:25

Yeah.

Ben Travers17:25

Yes, rather, I did uh all the old well, practically all of the Aldrich Farces.

Ben Travers17:32

as films. And there was one mischief which Her Herbert Wilcox got put on at her big charity opening with Edward Prince of Wales.

Ben Travers17:43

As a guest of honor, and it was a tremendous success. There were lots of others who went very well.

Presenter17:49

I think

Ben Travers17:49

I think they'd be rather fan to see again. I don't know what's happened to it.

Presenter17:52

They would indeed. They'd show the most beautifully neat and deft fast playing of a kind that doesn't really exist to day.

Presenter17:58

Uh we talked about W G Grace early on. Uh I know you're a great cricket enthusiast. You spent some of your royalties going to Australia to watch discounts.

Ben Travers18:06

Oh oh yeah, I used I was always very fond of cricket.

Ben Travers18:09

I've uh rather lost interest now, but I

Ben Travers18:13

Because of this I I think it's very exciting on Sunday afternoon to watch games on the telly, but it isn't cricket that Alec Betzer said ought to be called by another name.

Presenter18:21

Yeah.

Presenter18:22

You have been fascinated by the theatre since the eighteen nineties. Have you begun to lose interest in that? What do you think of the theatre to day?

Ben Travers18:29

I like the old fashion I'm old fashioned quite I'm so old, but I I like action.

Ben Travers18:35

situation, a play with a good story and good situation. But at the same time, I think the acting today is absolutely far, far superior to what there used to be a few jolly good old stars, actors in the old days,

Ben Travers18:54

But the uh sort of rank and file were far, far inferior to what we've got today.

Presenter19:00

I just have record number six. What's that?

Ben Travers19:03

All this time I was at the Old Rich and all that period, there was a great artist.

Ben Travers19:10

They unique artist really.

Ben Travers19:13

Who was very beloved by everybody, particularly by myself, and by Ray Flynn, who was a tremendous admirer of his, and that's Maurice Chevalier. Now, Maurice Chevalier made films, and there was a film called The Love Parade, and in that he had a song called The Love Parade, which I think is my favourite of any of his numbers. I'd like to have that.

Speaker 319:35

Those were the charms.

Speaker 319:37

Uh

Ben Travers19:37

We're there.

Speaker 319:37

Your Need not be told.

Speaker 319:41

No other round.

Speaker 319:44

But yo

Speaker 319:45

Whatever hold me.

Speaker 319:48

Lips of Lucy.

Speaker 319:51

And you did of Jan.

Speaker 119:53

Me

Speaker 319:53

Yeah.

Speaker 319:55

You are mine.

Presenter19:56

I need my daughter for rain.

Presenter20:04

Nor is she valiant.

Presenter20:06

We've dumped you on this island. How good are you going to be at looking after yourself? Any ideas from your days in Malaysia for putting up huts?

Ben Travers20:14

Oh, no, I couldn't put up a hut. I can't do anything for myself. I'm very bad my hair. I can't even change an electric light bulb without very apprehensive contortions of countenance. I couldn't do anything like building huts, and I just lie down and hope for the best.

Speaker 120:25

I'm a queen.

Ben Travers20:29

What are you going to eat? Done any fishing?

Presenter20:31

Yeah.

Ben Travers20:32

Just fruit. Oh, fishing? Oh no.

Presenter20:35

Yeah.

Ben Travers20:35

If I caught a fish, I'd be so sorry for it, I'd throw it back.

Presenter20:39

Would you try to escape, then?

Ben Travers20:41

Oh no.

Ben Travers20:43

Oh, no, no, I'm uh quite happy there by myself.

Presenter20:46

It doesn't sound a very happy existence. Let's get back to records. Let's get back to number seven, which is your next one.

Ben Travers20:53

This is a rather remarkable record.

Ben Travers20:58

A record of the voice of my dear old friend Tom Walls.

Ben Travers21:02

talking about his derby win with his horse April the fifth.

Ben Travers21:07

The Army of 1932.

Speaker 321:14

Uh

Ben Travers21:14

I say Tom, what about saying a few words?

Speaker 321:18

Thank you very much, everybody. I'm very proud to have won the Derby. It has always been my ambition to win the Blue Ribbon of the Turf, and Fortune has smiled on me at my very first attempt.

Speaker 321:27

I'm very grateful for the wonderful reception you've given me.

Speaker 121:30

Yeah.

Speaker 321:31

It is extraordinary how warm-hearted the racing public can be. I hope all my friends, theatrical and otherwise, have had a good win.

Presenter21:41

The voice of Tom Walls. And what's your last record?

Ben Travers21:46

Well, uh on the classical side of music, Tchaikovsky has always been my favorite, and I don't think I can have gone for Desert Island without a little bit of him. And this, I think, is one of the most beautiful refrains he ever wrote. It comes from the middle of the first movement of his Fifth Symphony.

Presenter23:06

Part of the first movement of Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony, Carry on conducting the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter23:13

If you could take just one record out of the eight you've chosen, which would it be?

Ben Travers23:18

Oh, I think as I lay down to sleep under my palm tree I'd like to be lulled off to sleep.

Ben Travers23:24

The promise of pleasant dreams by

Ben Travers23:27

So Maurice Chevalier, my love for it.

Presenter23:31

And one luxury to take with you?

Ben Travers23:34

Uh

Ben Travers23:36

I suppose I could snake a pipe ashore. If so, I would have an unlimited amount of my favourite tobacco. Oh, wait a moment, I might be able to make tobacco muddy out of leaves and grass and stuff.

Ben Travers23:49

Wouldn't be as good, but still.

Ben Travers23:51

Uh alternatively, a pack of cards. I think I love playing patience.

Presenter23:55

I'll smuggle a few packs of cards ashore inside the tobacco case.

Ben Travers24:00

Yeah.

Presenter24:01

And one book apart from the Bible, Shakespeare, and big encyclopedias.

Ben Travers24:05

Oh, I'll have no hesitation I'd have the complete works of Robert Browning.

Presenter24:10

Right, and thank you, Ben Travers, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Ben Travers24:15

Thank you too.

Presenter24:16

Goodbye everyone.

Speaker 124:24

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.