Sara Khan

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:36

My castaway this week is the human rights activist Sarah Khan. A British Muslim, she's the director and co-founder of an organization called Inspire. Its focus is pretty ambitious, countering extremism in the name of Islam and promoting Muslim women's rights, surely among the most complex, contentious, and incendiary areas of British contemporary culture.

Presenter0:58

Although her work is driven by frontline public concerns, her approach seems, in part at least, informed by her own private progression. At thirteen, and against her immigrant mother's wishes, she began wearing the veil, only taking it off in her thirties because, she says by then, she was older, wiser and more well-read. She is part of the Government's Extremism Task Force set up in 2014 after the murder of Lee Rigby, and also currently sits on the Government's Community Engagement Forum.

Presenter1:28

Her prime concern is empowering Muslim women and girls to challenge radicalization.

Presenter1:34

So how did a one time pharmacist from Bradford end up as a powerfully influential figure, unafraid to raise her voice in the corridors of power?

Presenter1:44

She says, My religion has been tarnished, and it pains me greatly to say it, but at the same time I feel spurred on in my duty as a Muslim to reclaim my faith back from the grasp of extremism and terrorists. Sarah Khan, welcome to Desert Island Discs. I quoted you there as saying that you wanted to reclaim your faith from extremists, and you said it was your duty as a Muslim.

Presenter2:08

So those are powerful phrases. I wonder if you can tell me what your faith means to you today.

Sara Khan2:15

My faith has always been a central part of my identity. It very much frames my humanistic outlook in my life throughout the way I live my life, the way I view the world, the way I view my contribution in society. And today when I see the form that contemporary Islam takes in today, I see a faith that's struggling to escape from the clutches of extremists, where every day we hear Islamist terrorists in the name of my religion committing acts of terror, whether blowing up children in a park in Lahore or killing civilians at a concert hall in Paris.

Sara Khan2:54

people in the name of my faith committing these acts of terror. And it's for a lot of Muslims and for me personally it's highly distressing to see that my faith is being used to justify these atrocities and the core of Islam really is this idea that you have to stand out and speak for justice and if your faith has been hijacked it's an obligation on Muslims to in effect reclaim their faith back from the extremists. But let's

Presenter3:19

Just look for a moment then at February last year. There were these three teenage girls from Bethnal Green Academy in London. They fled the UK to join the so-called Islamic State. They weren't the first. It's estimated around about fifty six young women and girls may have fled in the same year.

Presenter3:37

At that point you wrote an open letter to young Muslim women. It was very widely circulated on social media and it was read in very many schools. What was the core of your message in that open letter?

Sara Khan3:48

Very simply saying to young girls, don't fall for the lies of ISIS propaganda. Don't

Sara Khan3:55

Buy into their version of Islam. These people have totally distorted the faith. But also, what life is really like in ISIS territory. These people have no respect for women's rights. They have no interest in your family. They are asking you to break the relationship with your own parents who have raised you and given you life. And many of these families have moved to the UK precisely to give the very opportunities that they have not had. And ISIS are usually using you as fodder. The reason why I wrote it was simply because seeing the parents, their tears, seeing sisters cry, it's absolutely heartbreaking as a parent myself. And I felt at that point that there was no direct voice just saying to young Muslim women, this is the reality, let's be very clear about what ISIS is saying. And I think that's why it just had a lot of resonance both online and in schools and communities.

Presenter4:45

This is a very, very varied, surprising and interesting list of music you have given us today. Let's go to our first disc. Tell me why you've chosen this.

Sara Khan4:54

So this is Diana Ross and the Supremes, You Keep Me Hanging On. And the reason why I chose this was it really reminds me of my father. My father came to the UK in 1963 as a young 20-year-old handsome man and he still listens to Pakistani news on a daily basis but he's always loved Britain and if you go back to my parents home in Bradford they have this amazing pristine vinyl play, really old and he has a whole collection of Tom Jones albums, Rod Stewart, Diana Ross and the Supremes and this song really just reminds me of him.

Speaker 15:28

Let me free wide open

Speaker 15:32

Get off my life, I don't you baby. But you don't really love me. You just keep me hanging on.

Speaker 15:43

You don't really need me, but you keep me hanging up.

Speaker 15:51

Why do you keep a coming around, playing with my heart?

Presenter5:58

That was Diana Ross and the Supremes, and you keep me hanging on. Sarah Khan, one of the aims of your organisation, Inspire, is to foster Muslim women's rights. You said that despite Britain having some of the best gender equality legislation in the world, it doesn't touch a lot of Muslim women. Why does it not?

Sara Khan6:17

Two. That's a very interesting question. And I've spent my life working and engaging within Muslim communities, particularly with Muslim women.

Sara Khan6:26

And some of the stories and some of the women that I've engaged with really gave me sleepless nights. Women I know who are living in East London and who've lived there their whole lives and have never sat on a tube.

Sara Khan6:37

Women who have told me that they're not allowed to attend their son or daughter's parents' evening or not allowed to do the school pickup.

Sara Khan6:46

And it reminds me almost of slavery. And it's about combating that culture. You can implement legislation quite easily and create legislation. Trying to change attitudes and trying to change cultures is something far, far more difficult. Women want to hear this. They want to hear about gender equality. They want to hear about how Islam is compatible with women's rights. Because often that's not what they're hearing from religious clerics. They're hearing a very opposite idea. And so if you go in and say, well, actually, this is their own patriarchal interpretation of Islam, but there are much more diverse and progressive interpretations, which absolutely embraces feminism and women's rights. This is what women absolutely want to hear.

Presenter7:28

Do you often feel I mean, your voice is loud and articulate. Do you often feel like a lone voice?

Sara Khan7:34

Oft sometimes I felt like that, but I'm starting to see change now. I'm seeing more women.

Sara Khan7:39

Speak out, more men speak out, and I think that's fantastic. And there are an increasing number of male Muslim feminists that I'm aware of, which again is fantastic to see, and we need more of that. And I encourage more.

Sara Khan7:51

Muslims to speak out and to champion equality issues and of course a lot of non-Muslims to champion these same people as well.

Presenter7:57

Let's have some more music, Sarakhan. Tell me about your second disc. Why have you chosen this one?

Sara Khan8:00

So this is a song from the film Shawley. Shule is a classic 1975 Bollywood film. It's considered to be one of the most successful Indian films of all time, starring the god almost in the form of Amitabh Bhachan. And the reason why I've picked this song is because when I was two years old, and my mother was telling me this recently, she says that I used to literally, as a toddler, go to the VCR play and put this film on and repeatedly play it again and again and again. And for anyone who's watched this movie, it's quite a dark film actually. It's full of tragedy and loss and injustice. And I actually think that film must have had an impact on me as a child watching it. But it's a great movie. And again, it's also just part of my identity of growing up listening to, yes, Diana Ross and the Supremes, but also absolutely being exposed to Bollywood classics.

Presenter9:26

That was Ye Dosti Ham Nahin, The Friendship We Won't Break, from the nineteen seventy five film Sholei, sung there by Kishore Kumar and Mana Day, with lyrics by Anand Bashi and music by R. D. Berman.

Presenter9:39

Um Sarah Khan, your father then, you were talking about him in the first piece of music today and and his embracing, his open embracing of British music and British culture. He he came from Pakistan when he was just twenty. Uh tell me about how he generally took to not just cultural life but working life in Britain. How did he spend his time? Did he come with friends? Well, he came with his brother.

Sara Khan10:00

And

Presenter10:02

Uh

Sara Khan10:02

For him, he just saw Britain as a great country to fulfil your dreams. He was very much of the idea, and this is something he always taught us when we were children, that you work hard, you will have opportunities and doors opening up to you that perhaps you would not have had back in the village in Pakistan. And he's always instilled in us that Britain is your home now. Pakistan isn't your home. Yes, you have origins there and your roots are from there, but it is Britain that is your home and you've always got to contribute to this country in a positive way. So I remember even when I was on maternity leave and with my second daughter and I think my daughter was about six weeks old and he rang me saying, Oh, you know, I hope you're going to go back to work soon. I said, Look, I'm still on maternity leave, Dad.

Presenter10:43

You know, just give me a bit of time. Your parents had an arranged marriage. Tell me about your mother as a young woman. What what were her aspirations?

Presenter10:51

Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Khan10:51

She she came to this country when she was about twenty one. She'd got married when she was nineteen, so she was quite young and my mum has always been a feminist. It it's quite funny because I remember growing up when my mum used to drive past a a wedding procession.

Sara Khan11:07

She would just look at the bride and just say to herself, look, why are you doing this? Don't get married. Because she knew actually how marriage, particularly in an Asian culture, could be really debilitating for women. And she had very high aspirations. She told me how once she wanted to become a detective. I remember once she's saying she wanted to become an astronaut. You know, quite out of the box, culturally, anyway, aspirations. But she fulfilled very much the traditional cultural role that was expected of her, which was to be a housewife in particular, to raise the children. And so all of those dreams for her really were cast aside. And I think for her, that's why she again she's always encouraged us to fulfil your dreams because she never had the chance to fulfil her dreams. And I know lots of other Asian mothers have have travelled down that path and feel very passionate about making sure their own daughters have the chances that they did.

Presenter11:55

Not have. And what were you interested in as a as a little girl? What kind of character were you?

Sara Khan12:00

I was quite rebellious actually, quite a strong tomboy. I was very fortunate because I lived on a street with lots of children and we used to perform the cats musical for our parents on bonfire night after we'd done all the fireworks. We used to do cake sales for our families and parents and my parents agreed to allow me to have ice skating lessons on a Sunday morning. And I remember just being one of the very few Asian girls on this ice rink at the age of nine ice skating. That's not what Asian girls did in Bradford. So I actually feel I had a really great childhood being outdoors, you know, engaging with Muslims, Pakistanis, English people, very mixed environments, and that definitely shaped my outlook.

Presenter12:43

Tell me about your third piece of music, Sarakan. What are we going to hear now?

Sara Khan12:46

This is Mozart's Requiem.

Sara Khan12:48

My family didn't really listen to classical music and I was only introduced to it when I was at school. And I had this wonderful music teacher who really instilled in all of us this love for Mozart, Beethoven, Handel, Bach, all of these wonderful composers. And this is actually one of Mozart's final pieces that he composed and it's just something that I have a great love for.

Presenter14:13

Mozart's Lacrimosa die Silla from the Requiem in D minor performed there by the London Philharmonic Orchestra and choir conducted by Franz Pfizer Most.

Presenter14:22

It wasn't just being the little girl in in Bradford taken to the ice skating on on a Sunday morning that marked you out. It was interesting to me that that you were the third of four children that your parents sent he sent all of you to to private school, a very expensive endeavour indeed. Um why was that a priority for your parents? Why did they choose that?

Sara Khan14:41

Education was always a key aspect to their understanding and recognising that if children to have any success in life, it's got to be investing in their education. And my own family's background, you know, they grew up in Pakistan, in small villages, a completely different lifestyle to what we have today. And they really wanted us to have opportunities. And that was it. It was making sure that we fulfil our potential. And the only way by doing that was by investing in education. It was very white, and I remember just being, you know, called the P-word and experiencing racism. But for me, I never really allowed that to make me feel that, you know, I'm not really British and I don't belong here. And I really resented that fact because I come from a family which are incredibly patriotic. My own grandfather served for the British and he win World War II. That was my

Presenter15:38

A history really. And what would you give it back to them, the racist bullies? Did you at the time, or or was this an internal dialogue about I'm fine, I can cope? I think it was very much internal.

Sara Khan15:46

Right. But for me I knew that I'm never going to allow bigots to tell me what I am and what I am not. You know, I am British, I am Muslim, I am Pakistani, I don't see any conflict with either of those three things and the problem's not with me, it's with them.

Presenter15:59

And you decided to begin wearing the veil when you were thirteen. I said in the introduction that your mother had a problem with it. How much of a problem did she have?

Sara Khan16:06

Well, she stopped talking to me. When you're thirteen and your mother stops talking to you and you think you're doing something for the sake of God, it's quite a struggle. And she didn't speak to me for about a good few weeks. You say pleasing.

Presenter16:18

God, I mean, what was it that made you put it on in the in the first place?

Sara Khan16:21

I did. I believed at that time that wearing the headscarf was a compulsory act of worship that you should do for the sake of God and I was coming across lots of different preachers and I didn't realise at that time that actually I was involved in a lot of Islamist groups and you know as I've as I've grown older and I've read a lot more and I was not just being exposed to Islamist or Salafi or Wahhabi literature but a much more wider and diverse understanding of Islam, I came to the conclusion that I don't believe the headscarf is compulsory. You know, I always defend the right to women wear whatever they want to wear, whether they want to wear a bikini or whether they want to wear a hijab, because I passionately believe in women's choices and women's rights.

Presenter16:59

And these people that were you know that y you were listening to at the time, how much did your parents know about that? Did they know what you were reading, who you were talking to, who was preaching to you?

Sara Khan17:08

Not particularly. I think they just thought, well, she's wearing a headscarf, she's praying, we've got nothing to worry about. And that kind of naivety almost is what I see in a lot of parents today who, when you have parents seeing their children become a lot more religious, very, very quickly that change happens quite quickly. For some, not all, but for some young people, it's actually a path towards radicalization. So what you've got to be careful is that what kind of interpretation are they following? If they're following an interpretation which endorses violence, which endorses the dehumanization of other human beings, there is a problem there and that is something you have to challenge your children about.

Presenter17:43

Let's have some more music, Sarakan. Tell me about your next one. We're on your fourth.

Sara Khan17:48

So this is Guns N Roses, Sweet Child of Mine. And as a young twelve year old, I was heavily into heavy metal, really. And when I was thirteen, I started wearing the headscarf and becoming more religiously inclined. My love for heavy metal music did not die out at all. And I became this thirteen year old hijab wearing

Sara Khan18:07

Head-banging rock chick in effect. I wish I'd met you. I have no idea how my parents code. I think they just let me get on with it and I think it also appealed to that rebellious side of my character, which really you have to have, you have to have a rebellious side when you're challenging extremism and championing women's rights.

Presenter18:09

I wish I'd met you.

Presenter18:11

Damn.

Speaker 118:24

He got eyes of the blue in skies, heaven faint by the brain.

Speaker 118:31

I'd hate to look into those eyes and see an ounce of rain.

Speaker 118:39

Her hair reminds me of a long stay place where as a child I

Speaker 118:47

And break all the thunder.

Speaker 118:49

Rain is falling.

Presenter19:00

That was Guns N' Roses and Sweet Child of Mine and Sarah Khan. I will think forever when I listen to that song again about you and your hijab head-banging to that when you were 13. Tell me about meeting your husband. How did you meet?

Sara Khan19:12

I met my husband in 2002 and my friends knew him, his friends knew me, and just thought you two would actually be quite good together, you should meet up. And I approached marriage in a very business-like manner. It was very much head over heart. So I remember meeting him, you know, the first time, the second time, literally having a list of questions and just literally

Presenter19:31

It's literally having a list.

Sara Khan19:32

A list of questions with a with a tick-box exercise for me where I'm just saying so

Presenter19:37

You're old romantic, you

Sara Khan19:38

I I know and I I saw it very much as right are you going to have a problem with me working once we've got married did he not have a problem with you having the list? No he didn't at all actually he was quite good and I think for both of us we knew that the reason why. What was on the list? Go on then. Well so it was it was questions things like would you expect me to live with your mother once we get married? Would you have a problem with me working once we've got married or once I've had children would you stop me from working? What is your you know view about women's rights and women's equality? And I was twenty two at the time and I look back now and think gosh that was very mature of me because I don't know if I do that now.

Presenter19:49

Real what was on

Presenter20:11

And how important was his background? Was his religion important to you?

Sara Khan20:17

I was more interested in his outlook and his wider world view and you know he is a liberal with a small L, he's Muslim, he's from a Pakistani background, you know, my parents were very pleased that he was a barrister because they wanted to make sure that their daughter marries well, they don't need to worry financially in the future. But for me, what I, you know, I love about him is his belief in human rights. You know, when he met me, I wore the headscarf and then a few years later I took it off and he didn't have a problem with it because he respected my view. And again, that's what I love him for, that he's always encouraged me to do what I do. He's never stopped me despite all the hardship, the heartache. He's always encouraged me and furthered me on. And I don't think I'd be doing what I am today if I didn't have his support.

Presenter20:57

Let's have some more music, Sarakan. What are we gonna hear now? This is your fifth.

Sara Khan21:00

This is Sam Cook, Change Gonna Come, and this represents a music that I've always had a passion for. It's 1950s, 60s, Motown and this song of course became an anthem for the civil rights movement. And it means a lot to me because as an activist you have to have hope, no matter how pessimistic the outlook feels. And so you do this work with the hope that a change is going to come.

Speaker 121:26

I go to the movie.

Speaker 121:30

Oh down, child.

Speaker 121:36

Somebody keep telling me don't hang around.

Speaker 121:42

It's been a long

Speaker 121:46

A long time coming, but I know

Speaker 121:51

Change gon' come.

Speaker 121:54

Oh, yes it will.

Presenter21:58

That was Sam Cooke and the change is gonna come. Uh Sarah Khan, you you co founded your organization In Spire two thousand eight, two thousand nine, around about that time. You were a mother of young kids. W were you still working as a pharmacist by then? Yes, I was. So I mean, how did the idea come about? I mean, it sounds like you sort of virtually set it up round the kitchen

Sara Khan22:15

Table.

Presenter22:16

Uh Uh

Sara Khan22:16

I think pharmacy was something that never really appealed to me. And while I was working, I used to work as a hospital pharmacist. I just never felt like I was fulfilling what I really wanted to do. I didn't feel like I was fulfilling my potential. And so while I was working as a pharmacist, I had set up Inspire with a couple of other women. And there came a point when I was pregnant with my second daughter. I decided I'm just going to leave pharmacy and go into this area of work because I just saw.

Sara Khan22:43

The challenge of more and more young Muslims being drawn to extremist ideas really quite just shocking and I felt like I feel I've got to do something about this. We didn't have any money, we set it up at home, but it worked because my children were young. And also for me, I wanted to show Muslim women that you don't have to have a giant office, you don't have to have bags of money to do this work, you can create change and have an impact on national debate by

Presenter23:09

I'm sure your friends and family were aware of what an articulate person you were, but how did they react to you personally as you stepped out into the the scrutiny of of the public debate and public forum?

Sara Khan23:22

Well I never really talked to them about the abuse and I still don't actually. I keep that very much to myself and to the extent of that abuse. I remember when the police came round to install a fireproof letterbox and my mother-in-law came round asking me, oh what's this? And I just didn't have it in me to tell her what it was for because I just didn't want her to worry. But they've always been very supportive. My mother-in-law has been phenomenal. I mean I would not be able to do the work that I've done if she wasn't there to help raise my children and to look after them and babysit. Same with my husband. So you know my family have been incredibly supportive of what I do.

Presenter23:55

Let's have some more music, Sarakan. Tell me about the next one we're gonna hear.

Sara Khan23:59

So the next song I've picked is Lana Del Rey's Summertime Sadness. During the summer of 2012 this song was constantly being played and at the same time I was writing an op-ed for The Guardian about the murder of Shafilia Ahmed, a young British Muslim Pakistani woman who was murdered by her parents and in that summer her parents were convicted. Even now in 2016 there are women who will die because of honour-based violence and at the hands, incredibly at the hands of their parents. And I remember listening to this song all the time while writing because I was struggling.

Sara Khan24:35

With what I was hearing from the court case and also at that same time many Muslim women were ringing me saying her life was like mine and Shafili was six years younger than me so every time I hear this song I just think of Shafilia.

Speaker 124:47

Oh my god, I feel it in the air, telephone wires above, all sizzling like a snare. Hunt me on fine, I feel it everywhere. Nothing scares me anywhere.

Speaker 225:04

Kiss me, hug me before you go

Speaker 225:09

I'm sad.

Speaker 225:13

I just wanted you to know

Presenter25:25

That was Nana Del Re and Summertime Sadness. So Sara Khan Inspired, it's a non-government organisation. A lot of the work you do is touring the country, speaking to schools. You host workshops. You contribute to forums. You also work with the government on the Community Engagement Forum. You're part of an extremism task force. You've been a supporter of the Prevent strategy and this is where teachers and lecturers and people working with students and pupils come forward to the authorities and say, I believe this person, from what they've said in class or in lectures, may be at risk from radicalisation. It has come under a lot of criticism. Do you think the PREVENT strategy is working?

Sara Khan26:06

We need to have a prevent strategy. We're at a time where the threat that ISIS posed to this country is incredibly high. We know that the threat level at the moment in this country is severe.

Sara Khan26:19

At the same time, we've seen how ISIS are encouraging and radicalising young British Muslims to actually commit acts of terror in the UK. And the idea that we need a strategy to try and prevent people from being drawn into terrorism and down that path is fundamental. What evidence has shown time and again, the most successful aspect in preventing extremism and terrorism

Presenter26:44

But the view of some people is that it may be a breach of people's human rights. You are closing down debate. You are not letting the fresh air of argument get in. And actually, if you close it down, that in the end is more dangerous.

Sara Khan26:58

I think one of the biggest problems we have about the Prevent strategy is the massive misinformation that exists out there. PREVENT does not seek to close down discussion or debate in school. If you speak to Ofsted, they make it very clear that for them good practice is ensuring that discussion and debate takes place in class. You know, I went to one school recently where the headteacher was saying he was dealing with a case where he had one set of parents, the father was a member of the BNP, and he was making his five-year-old son watch incredibly distressing videos encouraging acts of violence against Muslims. And then this same headteacher was dealing with another set of parents, a Muslim father, who was making his six-year-old daughter watching beheading videos. So some of that radicalisation was actually coming from the parents. And again, what we were saying to schools was this is why it's important for you to encourage debate and discussion, because perhaps these children are never going to hear another point of view and it's only going to come from schools. So the idea that it's about encouraging the closing down of discussion in school is the complete opposite to actually what the Prevent strategy is encouraging.

Presenter27:59

Um one of the less colourful.

Presenter28:02

nonetheless insulting accusations that's thrown at you is that you are uh the Tory government's house Muslim, people say. You know, and the implication there is that you're obedient and you're well behaved and you're compliant.

Presenter28:14

How do you react to that?

Presenter28:16

Yeah.

Sara Khan28:16

I think that if you are an independent and opinionated Muslim woman who has set up an organisation from scratch, you know, you will be accused of being a government stooge. I've been called a native informant. I mean, House Muslim is an incredibly racist term actually. And I mean, I have very much worked with the Labour government under with Prevent, as I have with the Conservative government, and I've absolutely made clear my views and disagreements, for example, with the new counter-extremism bill that's coming out and how I believe actually sections of that will violate human rights. So I've got no qualms about speaking my views plainly to the government.

Presenter28:52

Let's have some more music, Sarakhan. What are we gonna hear now?

Sara Khan28:54

This is Christina Aguilera, a fighter. And if you're going to stand for something, you are going to face incredible amounts of abuse and you have to be determined. And ash as Christina sings, you know, all of this does make you stronger and it absolutely makes you a fighter. And so yeah, I want to thank all those people who have made me what I am today because of that abuse.

Speaker 129:13

Come on.

Speaker 129:15

Oh, cause if it wasn't for all of your torture, I wouldn't know how to be this way now and never back down.

Speaker 129:23

So I wanna say thank you, cause it makes me that much stronger, makes me work a little bit harder, makes me that much wiser. Thanks for making me wider, made me learn a little bit faster, made my skin a little bit thicker, makes me that much smarter, thanks for making me wider.

Presenter29:47

That was Christina Aguilera and Fighter. So, um, Sarakan, you're a mother to two daughters and and your life has been very different from your mother's, and doubtless their life will be different from from their mother's. Um what are your aspirations for them?

Presenter30:01

I just want them to

Sara Khan30:02

Do

Presenter30:03

Yeah.

Sara Khan30:04

Be happy like most parents. I want them to follow their dreams. I really, from day one, I've always instilled in this idea that you are a citizen of the world. You have to contribute to the well-being of our society, whether it's issues around climate change or discrimination against LGBT people. There's so many problems, and the world needs bright, caring, committed individuals. And that's what I want to see my young children grow up to, that they recognise that they have a valuable contribution to make in our world today.

Presenter30:35

And you're clearly a very determined woman, you're very articulate.

Presenter30:39

A mainstream politics, does that beckon?

Sara Khan30:41

No, not for me, because the idea of a whip telling me how I should be voting would just go against every fibre in my body.

Presenter30:49

Now, Sarah, the life of a castaway is about as far away from the life of a campaigner as it's possible to be as it's going to be just you there on your lonesome on the island. I won't complain, but I do feel I'll probably get bored after about

Sara Khan31:01

10 minutes being an activist. Tell me about your eighth choice then. So, this is Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings, a beautiful piece of music. I've chosen this song in particular because my young children, they're at that stage where they're constantly bickering. And I remember once picking them up from school, and it hadn't been more than two minutes, and they were starting to fight. We got into the car.

Sara Khan31:22

Put on the radio and this song came on and they just it was silenced because they were so enthralled by this piece of music.

Presenter32:33

Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings, played by the New York Philharmonic and conducted there by Leonard Bernstein. So, uh Sarah Khan, all castaways receive some books, uh, the complete works of Shakespeare and the Bible, or of course the Koran, if you would you prefer to say the Koran? And another book, too. What's your other book gonna be?

Sara Khan32:45

Yeah.

Sara Khan32:49

My book is called The Great Theft, Wrestling Islam from the Extremist and it's by an academic and theologian, Khaled Debul Fadhil, who's an American professor, and he wrote this book after 9-11. He takes the reader in a very easy, digestible manner the idea of Muslim theology and how Muslim theology does embrace democracy, human rights, equality, morality, and the idea that Islam actually is fundamentally always based on compassion and justice.

Presenter33:17

Okay, that's going to be yours. Uh you're also allowed a luxury. What's your luxury gonna be?

Sara Khan33:22

I think it'd have to be Yorkshire tea, because the idea of sitting on a on a beach just drinking tea all day and listening to wonderful pieces of music as the sun sets would probably be my ideal.

Presenter33:33

It's yours. Uh If you had to save one of these eight disks from the waves, which one would it be, I wonder?

Sara Khan33:38

Probably some cook to change is going to come. Just clinging on to that hope really and just making sure I'm all

Presenter33:45

Always optimistic about the future. It's yours. Sarna Khan, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Presenter34:32

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website, bbc.co.uk slash Radio 4.