Ruth Rogers

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:33

My castaway this week is the chef and restaurateur Ruth Rogers. The River Cafe, the culinary institution she heads, is revered by foodies and chefs the world over and has been going strong for more than a quarter of a century. Along with her dear friend and business partner, the late Rose Gray, she rewrote not just the menu, but also the rule book of what it means to dine out well. Forget glossy reductions, timbals, or sugar-spun nests, and think instead of the very finest ingredients prepared with rustic sentiment and unyielding rigour, served up in a minimalist space in a decidedly unglamorous part of town. She is by nature a perfectionist, sleeping overnight in far-flung Italian bakeries to better understand how loaves are made, or traipsing the length and breadth of the same country every November to find just the right olive oil to drizzle on wood-roasted turbot or chopped raw veal. Her Michelin star and cult status are all the more impressive given that she never set out to be a chef. She arrived from America at the tail end of the sixties, studying graphic art and falling in love with a young architect who would later go on to design her now world-renowned restaurant. His name was Richard Rogers. She says, I think the table and food is for conversation and contact. So welcome, Ruth Rogers. If it's about conversation and contact with other people.

Presenter1:59

How important is the actual meal? Uh

Ruth Rogers2:02

Oh, the meal is crucial. You know, we're chefs, we're every minute thinking about the food on the plate, but most of all the cooking. And people do very private things in a very public space. But if it's centered around a very good meal, then I think that definitely is the crucial factor.

Presenter2:19

I'd never thought about what you just said, about people doing very private things in a very public space. That's that's an interesting dynamic.

Ruth Rogers2:24

That's the that's

Ruth Rogers2:25

And if you ask waiters, it's fascinating. But one of my favorite stories was about a man who told us he was going to propose to his girlfriend and it said, Would you please write, Will you marry me? on the cake. So we did. And halfway through the meal he came up and said, Please cancel the cake. I know. So we were very I always wondered what what happened, you know, what happened in the in the first course.

Presenter2:51

Your restaurant has spawned so many imitators, not to mention a generation of chefs who've gone on to to populate kitchens, not just in Britain, but round the world. What rules do you hope that they learned at your stove that they are executing in their kitchens?

Speaker 13:00

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers3:09

That's a good question. People say to me sometimes, what talent do you look for in a chef? And I say, Well, it's not just the talent to cook, it's a talent to work with another person and the team. It's a talent to teach. It's a talent to accept criticism. It's a talent to, of course, be neat and clean and that you treat people with respect. I think Rose and I really

Ruth Rogers3:36

wanted to run a kitchen through hope rather than fear.

Ruth Rogers3:40

I love being in the kitchen. You know, since the death of Rose there's been a a lot more work to do. But if I ever lose my context of being in the kitchen, then I'm finished. I I want to be there. I want to be with the chefs.

Presenter3:52

It's time for some music now, Ruth Rogers. What are we gonna hear? Tell me about this.

Ruth Rogers3:55

Well, it's a hard choice. I grew up in upstate New York in a small town and in my teenage years we had the death of Kennedy, we had the death of Martin Luther King, we had the death of Malcolm X, we had the death of Robert Kennedy. It was a time of turmoil and

Ruth Rogers4:12

Out of that time came music, reflecting that

Ruth Rogers4:16

And for me Motown was really important and it focussed on a part of America that just ha had such great songs and dignity and politics. And so I chose Dancing in the Street.

Speaker 44:34

Ready for a brand new beat?

Speaker 44:38

Summer's here and the time is right.

Speaker 44:41

Or dance when they're in the street, and dancing into the part of the street.

Speaker 44:52

In New York City

Speaker 44:54

Cause all we need is music, sweet music, there'll be music everywhere.

Presenter5:05

Martha and the Vandelas and Dancing in the Streets. So you were born then, Ruth Rogers, in nineteen forty eight in a small farming town in upstate New York. Um Fred and Sylvia Elias were your parents. What are your earliest memories of your parents?

Ruth Rogers5:18

My father was a doctor and was very, very political. He went to Spain in the Civil War. And my mother was president of the PPTA and they were engaged in local politics. They were engaged in the school board. They were engaged in the anti-war movement. And they were children of immigrants. My grandfather and grandmother came from Russia. My father's parents came from Hungary. And the second generation all were professionals. You know, it was kind of amazing story.

Presenter5:49

I immediately think when you say on one side Hungarian, on the other side Russian, I'm thinking food. I'm thinking food.

Ruth Rogers5:54

I'm thinking my Russian grandmother didn't cook anything, but my Hungarian grandmother, apparently, when she came to visit my brother.

Ruth Rogers6:02

who was the first grandson.

Ruth Rogers6:05

They said, Shall we go and see the grandchild? She said, No, let's eat first.

Ruth Rogers6:10

I think that was her priority.

Presenter6:11

They already, she was a great cook. Were you the sort of little girl who would stand by the stove and help, or were you out doing other things?

Ruth Rogers6:17

We always ate very well. All the food was fresh and if we were having corn for lunch we bought it in the morning. If we were having corn for dinner we bought it in the afternoon. But m the meals were really about talk. We sat down at the table and we we talked about politics. We talked about my father would tell stories. It was a very talky household. You know, conversation was huge.

Presenter6:40

Let's go to some more music now. Ruth Rogers, tell me about this. We're going to hear your second choice of the morning. Why have you chosen this award?

Ruth Rogers6:45

Guys and Dolls. Well, as I said, I lived in the country about two hours north of New York City in the Hudson River Valley. And my father would take me maybe three or four times a year to New York. And then the routine was we would have lunch and then we would go to a matinee. And there'd be all these wonderful songs and musicals. I saw My Fair Lady, Westside Story, and then we would buy the record at Sam Goody, which was a big record store in New York. And then we would take it home to the country and I would play it over and over and over again. And I know the songs of practically every musical. And though I never saw Guisendolls because it was before my time, Richard Eyre did a revival of it in the eighties. And I just love it. It's my favorite musical of all time.

Speaker 47:37

Love is a thing that has licked them.

Speaker 47:41

And it looks like Nathan's just another victim. Yes, sir, when you see a guy reach for stars in the sky, you can't bet that he's doing it for some dollar. When you spot a John waiting out in the rain, chances are he's insane as only a John could be for a Jane.

Speaker 48:04

When you meet a gent paying all kinds of rent for a flat that could flatten the Taj Mahal

Presenter8:13

That was the original Broadway cast singing the title track of Guys and Dolls with music and lyrics by Frank Lesser. So Ruth Rogers, it was I think around about 1960. You would have been twelve by then and the family moved to Woodstock. Woodstock of course would later take its place in in pop culture with the the famous concert that was right at the end of the 60s, 69 I think. Well he tried to pick you up I think.

Speaker 18:25

By then and

Speaker 18:31

Uh

Ruth Rogers8:31

So with the

Ruth Rogers8:39

Oh yeah.

Ruth Rogers8:40

Well, he tried to pick you up, I think. I think I was there with my friend Livy, and we were after school. There was a cafe called the Bearsville Cafe. And we were sitting there, probably talking about our homework or whatever we had to do. And Bob Dylan just sent a note on a piece of paper saying, would you like to come back with us and watch us rehearse? And we wrote back on a piece of paper, no.

Ruth Rogers9:10

What a regret. Why did I do that? And why didn't I keep the little note? And why didn't I go? You came to London. I'm a huge fan.

Presenter9:15

Love.

Presenter9:16

You came to London then in the late sixties. You were with a boyfriend who was avoiding the draw.

Ruth Rogers9:20

Well, that was a you know, that was a very tough time in America. I had finished my first year of college and did not want to go back. I wanted to take a term off. And I had a friend who was coming to Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, but was really there because the only way that you could really avoid the draft was if you were in school. So I came with Joe.

Presenter9:42

Well I've seen a photograph of of uh an anti-Vietnam protest which was taking place in London, and you're right in the front line. Did you feel invigorated by that sort of protest?

Ruth Rogers9:48

Right in the

Ruth Rogers9:50

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers9:51

Yeah. Uh when I came here I realized that I couldn't get away from what was going on in the world and Vietnam was strong here. Europe was thinking about it and there were the riots in France and I thought I would come to Europe to have an, you know, experience of Europe. But what we really did was political work.

Presenter10:12

Let's have some more music, Bruce Rogers. Um we're on your third.

Ruth Rogers10:15

Well, having grown up in a home where classical music was played all the time, I grew up thinking, why do I have to listen to one more orchestra? Why do I have to listen to one more opera? And I think that at a certain point I discovered classical music that I liked. And I realized that what I liked was very clear and very simple. And I love the piano. I play the piano. And so I've chosen the Aria from Bach's Goldberg variation. And if I can just say that I chose a version played by Daniel Barrenboin because he's, to me, a hero, because he started the East-West Orchestra with a friend of ours, Edward Said, and for me, took music into a dimension that music could be a part of achieving peace.

Presenter12:19

That was part of the aria from Bach's Goldberg variations played by Daniel Barrenboyne. So, Ruth Rogers, there you were in your early twenties in London, supposedly only to spend a few months, but you've been here fifty years now. It was at that stage of your life, in your early twenties, that you met Richard Rogers. Tell me about that.

Ruth Rogers12:37

Tell me about that. Well, I think that I would be back in the United States were it not for meeting Richard. I came here with a whole group of Americans and everybody went back.

Ruth Rogers12:47

And, you know, what happened to me was that I fell in love. And uh, that was forty five years ago, um, a long time ago, but it was tumultuous. It changed everything.

Presenter12:59

Um you say you you fell very, very deeply in love and you now forty odd years later and it it's a famous union in terms of the fact that you've achieved a lot together. But it was at the time it was a tumultuous thing. What what happened to you?

Ruth Rogers13:04

Leaf.

Speaker 113:04

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers13:06

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers13:07

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers13:12

It was tumultuous. Richard, um you know, my family were in the United States. Richard has three fantastic children. Um

Ruth Rogers13:22

It was there were two families.

Ruth Rogers13:25

I have huge respect and and love Sue Rogers and

Ruth Rogers13:31

There was a lot happening and um I think that the the main focus for everyone in the family were the children.

Presenter13:41

It was it was a time also not just of great um emotional change in your life, it was also the point at which Richard and his partner were awarded a huge architectural job. They they won the competition to uh design the Pompidou Centre, and so you went with him

Presenter14:01

to Paris and there there was a a great deal of professional controversy around that. You know, the a lot of Parisians were not happy. What what do you remember of that time professionally for him?

Ruth Rogers14:10

It was amazing because I mean the stories go on and on about how Richard really didn't want to enter the competition because he thought it was too

Ruth Rogers14:18

Grand, it was d you know, it was culture with a capital C. It was for the president, and uh and he was outvoted both by Sue Rogers and Renzo Piano, and he entered it, and then

Ruth Rogers14:29

Um you know

Ruth Rogers14:31

The fact that they won out of 685 entries is just incredible and amazing that the French, you know, stuck with them, that they said, okay, you know, these people are young, they haven't built anything, and they're certainly not French. And so for the first year, I continued working at Penguin while Richard commuted to Paris because we thought, okay, you know, we've won it, but it's never going to happen. And the confidence of the French, you know, it was extraordinary. They could have pulled out at any point, and they didn't. And we moved to Paris in 1971, 72, when the job seemed a reality. And that was an amazing change in our life. And I have to say that mostly what we did when not working was to eat.

Presenter15:20

We'll talk more about that in a second. For now, let's fit in some more music with Rogers. Tell me about this. We're gonna hear we're gonna hear your force. Why have you chosen this?

Ruth Rogers15:27

Well, I've chosen this quite simply because it's just such a beautiful love song. And when Richard and I moved to Paris, we played a lot of music. And this song, Love Is Here to Stay, was written by George and Ira Gershwin. It's in the movie An American in Paris. I love this version of Ella. And I do think that after all these years, Richards and My Love is Here to Stay.

Speaker 415:59

It's very clear Our love is here to stay.

Speaker 416:11

Not for a year, But ever and a day

Speaker 116:16

Whatever.

Speaker 416:23

The radio and the telephone and the movies that we know may just be passing fancies and in time may go my dear.

Speaker 416:52

Our love is here to stay.

Presenter16:59

Ella Fitzgerald and Love is here to stay. So, Ruth Rogers, uh, France then, and Paris especially, probably marked the beginning of quite a kind of culinary epiphany for you, I man. You were living among the food markets in a little flat, and so you would shop in the way that Perzienne shop. What did you eat? What were you cooking?

Ruth Rogers17:14

Don't worry.

Ruth Rogers17:16

What you what you what Paris introduced me to was seasonality. Living above the market.

Ruth Rogers17:24

Really taught me that you don't go to the market with a shopping list in your head. Don't plan a dinner with a shopping list in your head. Go and see what's there and then decide what to cook. You know, that how many times have you driven all through London trying to find a raspberry in February? You know, don't do it.

Presenter17:42

Italian mothers are famously protective of uh their beloved sons. How did you get on with Richard's mother?

Ruth Rogers17:48

Rishi's mother was a force. She was a a very strong woman who, I think, had a very definite view of design, of art, of architecture.

Ruth Rogers18:01

and crucially of of food, you know, that she came to London as

Ruth Rogers18:07

As she would say herself a rather spoilt Italian girl from a posh family during the war,

Presenter18:12

She, I think, had a recipe for Zabaglione where she couldn't get hold of Marsala wine and so she made it with Bristol cream sherry.

Ruth Rogers18:16

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers18:21

And rum. Yeah.

Presenter18:22

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers18:23

Was it good? We still make it. That's how we make it. You don't make it with it. You don't make it with Marsala. We sometimes make it with Vinsanto now, which is hugely indulgent.

Presenter18:25

You don't make it you don't make it myself.

Ruth Rogers18:32

I was intrigued.

Presenter18:33

to read that you were something of a devotee of the the cookery writer and the T V chef Julia Childs who uh you know, she's the queen of bechamel and hollandaise and brandy butter cake filling and all those thi I mean, when did you decide that actually, you know

Speaker 118:39

Yeah.

Speaker 118:44

I'll say The link

Presenter18:49

You were more interested in fresh herbs and olive oil and grilled fish than than all the kind of Julia Child stuff.

Ruth Rogers18:51

Yeah, yeah.

Ruth Rogers18:54

I'd say it was on my first trip to Italy, when I went to Italy with Richard. I can actually remember the first time I had brischetta with new oil, where I was sitting and what it was like, you know, just to have this incredible strong oil, which I kept thinking there must be another ingredient in this because the flavour. And then to go to the sea and have have a piece of fish that was grilled with wonderful lemon and herbs, you know, or maybe no herbs, you know. I always say famously that Dada, Richard's mother on her deathbed said to me, Ruthie, she had fantastic skin, she said, I want you to put more cream on your face and less herbs on your fish.

Ruth Rogers19:34

Those are her last words to me. Lester said you're finished. But.

Ruth Rogers19:39

I still love French food, and I have to say that I think that Julia Child taught me

Ruth Rogers19:43

to have confidence, because the ingredients are so precise, the size of the tin is so precise that you never fail.

Ruth Rogers19:51

and not failing gives you confidence to experiment later on.

Presenter19:54

And you are not a trained chef, so is that where you learnt the actual mechanics and the rules of good cooking?

Ruth Rogers20:02

Yeah, I think so. There are probably still a lot of rules I don't know. And, you know, Rose and I say we love

Ruth Rogers20:09

Having young chefs who've been trained really well in those rules, but what we can teach.

Ruth Rogers20:15

We always felt that Rose and I and Rose particularly used to say that, you know, just do it our way. You know, do it our way because we know what is the best way to eat this kind of food. Because we've learned in Italy we were pretty confident, scarily confident.

Presenter20:33

Tell me about this next piece then. Why have you chosen it?

Ruth Rogers20:36

Rose and I kept going back to Italy, and if we only had two or three days, we'd often have two or three lunches, two or three dinners, and they were very intense times to be together because we would eat, we would talk, we would think, we would sometimes if you were doing a cook book, we would write.

Ruth Rogers20:55

And we were in Milan, and we walked past La Scala, and I s I said to her, Have you ever been to La Scala? and she said no, and I hadn't and we saw that Don Giovanni was on.

Ruth Rogers21:07

So we went back to our hotel and got dressed up and we went to La Scala and Don Giovanni. And this beautiful area makes me think of Rose and the times we had, not so much eating, but just being friends and being together.

Speaker 421:28

I want to hear.

Speaker 421:49

What is first?

Speaker 421:52

Oh, spiritual and blood.

Speaker 421:58

Body of Suffolk, oh, Godiosa

Presenter22:22

Vedrai Carino from Mozart's Don Giovanni, sung by Anne Servie van Otter with the English Concert Orchestra, conducted there by Trevor Pinnock. So, Ruth Rogers, you talked today about Rose Gray so much. You know, so much of the stories of your life are woven through with the stories of her life. You became friends and you became partners when you decided that you would open this place called the River Cafe in 1987.

Speaker 122:35

Much of the

Presenter22:48

It was tucked away in a in a very unlikely sort of part of London, certainly unfashionable at that time. When you say we were doing it our way, what is your way?

Ruth Rogers22:59

Seasonality, respect for the ingredient, respect for the Italian tradition of cooking. You know, people always want us to have French wine on our wine list and we wouldn't do it.

Ruth Rogers23:10

the fish, the meat, we would source locally, that we'd have a very short menu and the involvement of everyone who worked in the restaurant in the food, so that the kitchen porters still to this day prep the scallops and the squid. The waiters come in at eight thirty and start peeling the garlic and they grate the parmesan or they wash the anchovies and

Ruth Rogers23:33

You know, every day we write a menu an open kitchen at the time.

Presenter23:38

The time that was a very new thing to do.

Ruth Rogers23:39

Yeah. The drama isn't hidden behind closed doors. The drama between the chefs is apparent, the drama between the chefs and the waiters, and the drama w between the customers.

Ruth Rogers23:49

Um and a lot of that can be hidden and that's fine too. And the other thing I think that's great about having an open kitchen is it has a standard of cleanliness and also manners that you don't ever shout. I could never dream of being in a kitchen downstairs with no light.

Presenter24:05

It was 2002 then when Rose Gray was diagnosed and uh treated for breast cancer. Much later she went on to develop uh brain cancer and she died in in twenty ten. She was entirely fundamental to your business and it wouldn't have happened without the two of you being together to do it. What do you think her legacy will be and is?

Ruth Rogers24:30

Well, I think that

Ruth Rogers24:33

She's there in the way we slice a loaf of bread. She's there the way we grill a piece of lamb. She's there the way we greet a customer. She's there in the clothes that the waiters wear. I think the greatest legacy to Rose is that the restaurant is doing so well. And she was amazing in those last months. I used to go and see her every day, every other day. We would talk about the restaurant, what was happening. I'd send her food and she'd say, Who made that salsa verde? That was crap, Rogers, you know, it was really you know, so and when she died, I think what we all felt that for Rose, for everyone,

Ruth Rogers25:14

that the restaurant had not only to go on, but to be better and better and better and better for Rose.

Presenter25:20

Was there a point after she died that you thought actually that the shutters will come down and can't can't do it without her?

Ruth Rogers25:25

No. No, I d I have to say I didn't. There were dark moments, but I never thought that.

Presenter25:31

Let's have some more music then, Ruth Rogers. We're going to hear your sixth choice of the day. Tell me about this.

Ruth Rogers25:38

This is a song written by Woody Guthrie.

Ruth Rogers25:41

And I did a lot of singing with my children. I love to sing.

Ruth Rogers25:45

And

Ruth Rogers25:46

And this song

Ruth Rogers25:47

I really love because I think it's probably a kind of very basic socialist song because it talks about three children meeting in the beach and uh describing what their their father does and how they're interdependent and everybody's taking care of each other.

Speaker 126:04

A curly-headed girl with a bright shining smile Heard the roar of a plane as it sailed through the sky.

Speaker 126:12

To her playmate she said, with a bright twinkling eye, Well, my daddy flies that ship in the sky. My daddy flies that ship in the sky. My daddy flies that ship in the sky. My mama's not afraid, and neither am I, Cause my daddy flies that ship in the sky.

Presenter26:38

Sisko Houston singing Woody Guthrie's Ship in the Sky. So, Ruth Rogers, it's interesting that there appears to be this sort of two-tier system in place in the UK today. You know, we've got wall-to-wall TV food programmes, we've got more and more farmers' markets, we've got people buying the sort of cookery books, your sort of cookery books, and taking a great deal of time and care. And then we've got, you know, areas of food poverty in inner cities, we've got more obesity than we've ever had, we've got food banks, and so on and so on. How do you think that can realistically be addressed?

Speaker 126:52

Got people

Speaker 126:54

Hmm.

Speaker 126:56

Looks at end

Speaker 126:58

Of time and care.

Speaker 127:01

Uh

Ruth Rogers27:01

We've got more.

Ruth Rogers27:03

Yeah.

Ruth Rogers27:10

Well, um I would say that the government has to have more initiatives for good food in schools.

Presenter27:16

So it's a food policy thing.

Ruth Rogers27:16

It has to be a food policy. And I'm doing some work with Jamie.

Ruth Rogers27:22

It has to be part of the culture. If you walk down, just talking about children and food and schools, I took a photograph the other day of a Nicole Maternelle in Paris, which is a state school for children, and they post their menus outside for the parents. You know, it's amazing. They have four courses. They start with the soup, and they have a cheese and a dessert. Every day there's healthy food, salads, and challenging food for children. There should be more green grocers in poor areas. I mean, this, you know, it's a, you know, whether it's a problem. It's a complex problem. And it's in every level. You know, it's about poverty, and poverty I think has to be tackled from above, through tax, through.

Presenter27:59

It's a complex problem.

Ruth Rogers28:08

initiatives through education, and it it's it's a huge problem and it's totally unfair.

Presenter28:14

Let's go on now to your uh seventh piece of music, Ruth Rogers. Just tell me why you've chosen this.

Ruth Rogers28:19

Um

Ruth Rogers28:21

I have three stepchildren and I have two sons with Richard, Rue and Beau. And in twenty eleven Bo died of a seizure when he was in Italy.

Ruth Rogers28:39

We were as a family trying to think of the best way to remember Beau, and we had an evening at the restaurant which was

Ruth Rogers28:54

Really a family night with his friends. There were about two hundred people there, people who loved Bo. And each of his brothers and sister-in-laws spoke. His nieces and nephews sang Leaving on a Jet Plane because he loved to fly and to travel. And at the end, my children put together a slideshow of Bo with the music in the background of this song, I Will, a Beatles song, but this version is sung by Garrison Killer. And I'd like to play this in memory of my beautiful boy.

Speaker 429:37

Who knows how long I've loved you?

Speaker 429:41

You know I love you still

Speaker 429:45

Will I wait a lonely lifetime?

Speaker 429:49

If you want me to, I will.

Speaker 429:55

For if I ever saw you, I didn't catch your name.

Speaker 430:03

But it never really mattered I will love you just the same.

Presenter30:11

That was Garrison Keillor and The Biscuit Band and I Will and chosen by you, Ruth Rogers, in memory of your son, Bo.

Presenter30:19

I want to talk for a minute about family and the importance of family in your life, because it's very interesting to me that that you work just a matter of a few yards away from your husband. And I read you once in an interview say that your husband always likes to keep you close.

Ruth Rogers30:35

We all work very hard, that's what we do, but the lines between work and family are

Ruth Rogers30:43

Not very sharp, you know, they're not drawn deeply. So Richard comes in, grabs a p s a piece of bread or he has an espresso. I go in the office and he say, Come and look at a drawing. And then we go to Italy in the summer and we are surrounded by our family. We're also quite lucky because it's um geared around architecture and food. Food is to do with love and politics and so is architecture. So it's it's kind of pretty intertwined.

Presenter31:14

Does anybody ever invite you round to dinner?

Ruth Rogers31:16

Oh yeah, not often enough, I have to say. We love going out together.

Presenter31:19

Can you see the terror in their faces?

Ruth Rogers31:21

Uh yeah, I used to like spend all my time reassuring. Now I go, Yeah, be very afraid. I am I'm so tired of reassuring everyone that I'm such a nice person. But I do love going to eat in other people's homes. What would be your desert island dish? Oh, I know that I'll have to say um uh pasta pomodoro. It has to be the best tomatoes cooked very, very slowly with good olive oil and the right basil and not too much garlic. And it has to cook slowly for hours.

Presenter31:53

You're right, we should be scared to ask. Yeah.

Ruth Rogers31:55

It's verified.

Ruth Rogers31:58

The simplest dishes are often the hardest ones to do.

Presenter32:00

Tell me about your final piece of music, Ruth Rogers.

Ruth Rogers32:03

Well, This Land is Your Land historically was written as an anti-anthem for the United States. Woody Guthrie came out of the Depression. He came out of the Dust Bowl. Every song he wrote really was about people who were in poverty. And I think he saw This Land is Your Land as an anthem for those people. And I was a huge and still am supporter of Obama. I you know, worked for him the campaign. And for his inauguration in front of 400,000 people, Pete Seeger and Bruce Springsteen, and I think Pete Seeger's grandson sang This Land is Your Land. I know Bruce Springsteen said he thinks this is one of the great American songs ever written, and I do too.

Speaker 432:51

This land is yours. This land is mine.

Speaker 433:00

To the New York Comp

Speaker 433:03

From the redwood forest to the come stream water.

Speaker 433:10

This land was made for you and me Well, I roamed and I rambled And I followed my footsteps to the street

Presenter33:21

Pete Seeger and friends there, and this land is your land. So, Ruth Rogers, the time has come for me to cast you away, I have to say. I'm going to give you uh a copy of the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you're allowed to take one other book along. What book would you like to take?

Ruth Rogers33:36

Um if it doesn't sound too egotistical to take something co-written by myself, I would like to take the River Cafe classic cookbook. It's the last book that I did with Rose. And there are photographs of Rose and myself, there are photographs of our families. It's yours. And you get to take a luxury.

Presenter33:55

Three, two, what were you

Ruth Rogers33:56

Well, this has a story to it, which is that when Richard was on this program and he was asked what his luxury item the disturbing the item part, but anyway, when he was asked what his luxury would be by Sue Lawley, he said, I would like to take Ruthie. And she said, You can't. And he said, Well, then I'm not going. So, of course, my luxury would be to have Richard with me. And if you say I can't, then I'm not going.

Presenter33:56

Well this has

Presenter34:26

Is that it? You're not going?

Presenter34:29

And if I was to be even stricter than Sioux Lolly, which some might say is unlikely, uh what would you really take to this island?

Ruth Rogers34:31

Which some might say is un

Ruth Rogers34:36

Well, I guess, um, in food I would take a bottle of extra virgin olive oil that had been pressed at either Felsena or Fontodi, our favorite vineyards.

Presenter34:48

Let's give you that then for all those tomatoes that you're going to grow on this island. If you could only choose one track to save, which one would it be?

Ruth Rogers34:50

On this issue, it finally

Ruth Rogers34:56

I think I would take the Goldberg variation.

Presenter34:58

It's yours. Ruth Rogers, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Ruth Rogers35:02

Thank you very much.

Presenter35:44

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio 4.