Rocco Forte

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 30:11

And the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is the son and heir to a dynastic empire. His profession is catering, his world a battleground of acquisition. In nineteen thirty four his father opened a milk bar in Regent Street in London. Six years ago he handed to his son the largest hotel and catering chain in Britain, the second largest in the world, worth more than a billion pounds and embracing everything from motorway cafes to some of the grandest hotels in London and Paris.

Presenter0:58

But one prize still eludes the family's grasp. Try as they might, they have not been able to buy the Savoy Group.

Presenter1:05

The son, who now does battle on their behalf, is the chief executive of Trust House Forte, Rocco Forte.

Presenter1:12

It is impossible to introduce you without mentioning your father, which must have been the case all of your life. Do you find that very annoying?

Rocco Forte1:19

Not at all. I've uh I've been very close to my father all through my life. He had a lot to do with bringing me up, and he's still very much involved, so I'm always very happy to hear him mentioned.

Presenter1:30

So you don't feel that you've led your life or are leading your life in his shadow, as it were?

Rocco Forte1:30

You did.

Rocco Forte1:35

Not at all. I mean I think may other people may think that, but I certainly don't look at it that way. He's given me an opportunity which I can take advantage of, or or not, as as the case may be.

Rocco Forte1:46

You say he handed over to me in the in your introductory remarks, but uh he hasn't quite done that. He's still very much around and still an inspiration to us all. He's uh chairman of the company and uh still comes into the office every day.

Presenter1:58

We'll talk more about that relationship, if we may, later on. But let me just ask you about that that first milk bar in nineteen thirty four, because it it was not far from here, was it, where we're sitting in Broadcasting United States?

Rocco Forte2:06

Just down the road, Markle House, uh it was called, and it's it still exists. There's a Italian fast food restaurant operating it now, which was operated by the company.

Presenter2:16

It's it's funny the phrase milk bar, it it's died out really, hasn't it? It's a it's a lovely phrase, conjures up pictures of strawberry milkshakes and knickerbocker grabs.

Rocco Forte2:24

It was related to milk, milk prod ice cream, milkshakes and things like that, and they're sold in a different format today.

Presenter2:31

So were you brought up on ice cream and knickerbocker glories? Was that very much a feature of your childhood?

Rocco Forte2:37

I was brought up on some very good cooking organised by my mother, who was a who is an excellent cook.

Rocco Forte2:43

with an obvious Italian bias. I love pasta dishes and and anything of that kind.

Rocco Forte2:48

But I've always, because of the business we're in, I've always eaten in the best of restaurants and had the best of food. In fact, that's a problem, because I like it so much I have to keep keep myself under control.

Presenter2:59

Well, there's n none of that on the island. There are no milk bars, there are no there's no five star service. Will you miss all of that? Because obviously you're a man who likes his creature comfort.

Presenter3:08

Uh-huh.

Rocco Forte3:08

I don't know. I think I probably would manage. I had a a public school education and that prepares one for most things, I think.

Presenter3:08

I don't know

Presenter3:14

But there's nobody here to serve you, there's nobody to do anything for you at all.

Rocco Forte3:18

Well, I'm quite practical actually. I pretend not to be because then I get looked after better by my wife. But I think if it it came to the crunch I could manage quite well.

Presenter3:27

What about music? What sort of music do you want to take with you?

Rocco Forte3:31

a variety I suppose and perhaps the ear in the earlier s uh stages of my life I do I wasn't too interested in in serious music, but I've become more so in more recent years.

Presenter3:40

Shall we hear your first record?

Rocco Forte3:42

Yes, indeed. It's an important song called Suddhati Namurato, sung by Pevarotti.

Rocco Forte3:49

I've chosen this because it brings a nostalgia. Anyone with Italian origins, whether they're they were born in Italy or not, has a certain nostalgia of Italy. And the Neapolitan songs represent that nostalgia. And I think I'd like to have something like that with me on the island.

Speaker 44:04

Stá iluntana das tugore, de a teboro go benciero, niente voya yentes pero, cate lirte semprefiangoamber.

Speaker 44:21

Si si kura histo moreisos secureta peta, oi peta fear, oi go kistu core, o da prima more, o brimosar.

Rocco Forte4:37

Ah

Rocco Forte4:38

Uh

Presenter5:05

Luciano Pavarotti singing Osudato in Amurato with the orchestra and chorus of the Teatro Camunale Bologna. Now, Rockefeforte, as chief executive, you run the business from day to day, but um

Presenter5:19

As you say, your your father's chairman, so you don't do anything unless he says it's okay, is that right?

Rocco Forte5:25

I get on very well, my father. We we've always worked closely together and we continue to do so. I get on with the day to day running of the business. Obviously anything which is of major strategic importance or major decisions which are taken, he w he's he's involved in.

Presenter5:40

How many hotels do you own?

Rocco Forte5:42

We own about eight hundred hotels.

Rocco Forte5:45

Well what?

Rocco Forte5:46

Then we have about one thousand catering outlets of one kind or another. And then if you include Gardner Merchant, which is our industrial catering arm, that has some four thousand different contracts. So it's quite a widespread organization.

Presenter5:59

And you own some two hundred odd hotels in Britain, don't you?

Rocco Forte6:02

That's right.

Presenter6:02

How much do you concern yourself with with their running, as it were? Is it entirely out of your hands, or do you hear about the complaints and things in them?

Rocco Forte6:11

Well, I get a lot of communications from customers directly to me. They write to me, and then I will respond to them, both complaints and compliments.

Presenter6:19

Because of course the beds we sleep in and the food we eat are are so terribly important to us, they're probably the things we are likely to complain about more than anything else, aren't they, in our lives?

Rocco Forte6:29

I think so, but I what people complain of most is that they're not handled in the proper way when they arrive at the hotel or and the restaurant and they get poor treatment from a member of the staff and that upsets them and then everything after that is bad.

Presenter6:42

Who are the worst complainers? Which nationality?

Rocco Forte6:45

People say the British are not good complainers. I don't think that's true at all. I get plenty of very well written letters from British customers.

Presenter6:53

And who make the best members of staff? There is a a feeling, isn't there, that the the Continentals, the Italians and the French make the best waiters, for example, or the best maître dees that somehow

Presenter7:03

They don't mind serving, whereas um an Englishman feels that there's something demeaning in that.

Rocco Forte7:11

Obviously good people are are good people and whatever their nationality. The idea that uh people in England don't work hard is another fallacy altogether. They're very hard working, the right people, very committed and very loyal actually. I think uh probably some Continental staff have a greater sensitivity and and feel and and tend to be a little bit more outgoing.

Presenter7:30

So do you have first-hand experience of all this? I mean, when when you were a boy, did you go through all this? Did you wait on tables and serve in milk baths?

Rocco Forte7:38

Yes, from from the age of thirteen I used to take half my holidays school holidays and then university holidays doing a job of work in some part of the business. My first job was in the Cafe Royal Cellars in Regent Street, I think on being paid four pounds a week at that time. Then I've I've worked as a in the kitchen, as a waiter, behind the reception desk, a snack bar counter. So I've covered most of the jobs that uh one can do in the industry. I've washing up as well. I lo once got doctor weeks' wages for breaking um half the plates in an establishment and which was terrible because I couldn't take my girlfriend up that week.

Presenter8:15

Let's pause for your second record.

Rocco Forte8:18

The second record I've chosen is Good Golly Miss Molly by Little Richard. I love dancing and I think probably in my desert island I do a little bit of private dancing on my own to this record to remind me of the fun I've had.

Speaker 48:30

Look at Miss Mars.

Rocco Forte8:32

Uh Uh

Speaker 48:32

So like the ball for Dolly McMahon.

Speaker 48:39

So like the ball

Speaker 48:42

When you're back in the bomb

Speaker 48:45

Hey, here your mama call

Speaker 48:49

The early early morning to the early early night. When the comments wildly walking at the house of blue light, good gallery.

Presenter8:59

Little Richard singing Good Golly, Miss Molly. You've got to be very tough to survive in big business, I'm sure. Were you always tough as even as a small boy?

Rocco Forte9:09

I suppose I was quite tough. I boxed and I played rugby and uh took my knocks, my share of knocks in in doing that. Being tough uh for business is something slightly different. You have to make a lot of very difficult decisions in running a big business, and some are not the decisions you like to make, particularly concerning people.

Presenter9:09

Uh

Presenter9:28

You mean you have to file them?

Rocco Forte9:28

You mean you have

Presenter9:30

Yeah.

Rocco Forte9:31

Yes, and I suppose if we you can you can put it that way, although I don't directly I very rarely directly fire anybody now, but I've I've I've had to do it in in in the past.

Presenter9:41

But you, as a small boy, you say you were a sporting type. You were competitive.

Rocco Forte9:46

Oh, yes, very much so. Mad played all the sports and games at at school, but the thing I majored on was fencing. I started having fencing lessons at at home, actually. My father started me off on that.

Rocco Forte9:58

'Cause he decided to take it up, and he'd done some before the war, and got hold of the old fencing teacher, who was a splendid old chap, called Delsi, for Toronto Delsi, who'd been European sabre champion in nineteen eleven, and actually continued giving me fencing lessons until he was eighty.

Rocco Forte10:15

He needed to be fortified though, because he'd take a a sherry glass full of cognac before the lesson started, a a sherry glass in the middle and a sherry glass at the end. My mother used always used to complain that the cognac was disappearing at a fast rate. But I gave it up in a fit of peak one day. I was fencing in the British Championships and I had a last place, fencing for last place in the final, last six. And I was fencing against a member of a British team and I hit him about God knows how many times. I eventually lost five, four. I was fencing sabre and there was no electric sabre in those days. It's just coming on. And all the judges were members of the British team, so they were favouring their colleague. And I threw my mask down, I threw my sabre and I said, I'd never fence again. I never did. Which was sad, actually, because it was something that I enjoyed doing, and I was quite good at.

Presenter11:05

You mentioned that they were on on the British side. I mean, do you feel entirely English yourself, or or do you feel more Italian?

Rocco Forte11:13

This is my country. But I feel a certain uh nostalgia for for Italy. I feel a little bit Italian, and that isn't until I go and spend some time in Italy, then I feel very English indeed.

Presenter11:24

Shall we have your third record?

Rocco Forte11:26

I love singing, but I have a most terrible voice, and the only time I can sing is when Jerusalem is played in a church ceremony and everybody else's voice drowns mine.

Rocco Forte11:35

The other thing I like about this hymn is that it reminds me very much of of England. I feel uh very patriotic when I hear it played, and uh I think it would be a good reminder for me on the desert island of this country that that I've been brought up in and lived in.

Speaker 411:49

We are home of the living Lord.

Speaker 411:56

Bring me my arrows only.

Rocco Forte11:57

Revolution.

Speaker 412:03

We might spare.

Rocco Forte12:04

BOLLES

Speaker 412:06

What has I called?

Speaker 412:10

Bring me one chariot.

Speaker 412:20

Let's see.

Speaker 412:26

O shall thy soul stand in my hand.

Speaker 412:34

Till we have end shadows on land.

Presenter12:51

Jerusalem, sung by the Seaford College Chapel Choir. So you went up to Oxford and you studied French and Italian. You then went on and did a business course for three years, and finally entered the family business. Being the boss's son must have been difficult.

Rocco Forte13:09

I suppose it was and it wasn't. I think it made things a lot easier in some respects and that obviously your path upwards is facilitated if you're capable. But obviously people are very nice to you and careful how they handle you and talk to you. So perhaps you're protected from some of the rougher elements or rougher ends of the business as a result.

Presenter13:28

But they might feel, behind your back, deeply resentful.

Rocco Forte13:32

Yeah, I've never noticed anything like that. I mean, I've always been attached to business involved in some way, even indirectly. My father brought me up that way. So it was in a way a natural thing for me to join and and expect it and people were pleased that I was taking an interest in and being involved.

Presenter13:49

Can we talk about a a well known phrase that people connect with Fortes, which is portion control, which is said to have been one of the secrets of success of the business, but which

Presenter13:59

In people's minds, sometimes smacks of stinginess. Now, can you explain portion control to us?

Rocco Forte14:05

At the end of the day, you when you serve a meal, whatever quality of restaurant, you have to price that meal, and you price it on the basis of the amount you put in the plate. In a luxury restaurant, you allow for second helpings and so on. In a more modest establishment, obviously, it's much more rigorously controlled. At the end of the day, anybody is in business to make a profit, and therefore controls have to be applied.

Presenter14:29

But do you have standard recipes and uh standard menus for your hotels?

Rocco Forte14:35

No, I mean it it's very much horses for courses. If you take an operation like Little Chef, which is uh the strength of Little Chef is that whatever Little Chef you go to, you find exactly the same standard, the same food, the same quality of operation. And that is very rigorously controlled from the Little Chef Centre as the managing director in charge of Little Chef and the menu is controlled centrally. It's updated every six months.

Presenter14:40

Um

Presenter14:59

So it says on it exactly how many chips you should have on the plate.

Rocco Forte14:59

It says on

Rocco Forte15:02

How many slices into more

Presenter15:03

How many slices of tomato?

Rocco Forte15:04

Absolutely. You move up to a a luxury hotel operation. There you have an individual chef who's very skilled. He develops his own menu with a general manager. And they work to an overall standard, but there the detail of that is handled by by them.

Presenter15:19

I suppose the problem really is, though, that if you seek to bring things up to a certain standard overall, to standardise, what you do in the end is rob places of their individuality.

Rocco Forte15:32

So I think there are some basic standards which must be applied. I mean a place must be hygienic, it must be clean, the customer has got to be given value for money. And all our operations have to operate within that standard. Then they're either very standardized operations or less standardized operations at the very top end and in between. There are variations on that theme.

Presenter15:54

Another record, please.

Rocco Forte15:56

A very romantic number, this one reminds me of uh all sorts of different nice times in my youth.

Rocco Forte16:04

Unforgettable by Nat King Cole.

Rocco Forte16:07

I'm

Speaker 416:07

Unforgettable

Speaker 416:12

That's what you are.

Speaker 416:19

Unforgettable

Speaker 416:23

Oh, near a far

Speaker 416:29

Like a song of love.

Presenter16:32

Of that clings to me.

Presenter16:36

Very romantic Natkin Cole singing Unforgettable. You said it reminds you of the nice times in your youth. You were, of course, inevitably, because you were rich and about town, labelled a playboy.

Rocco Forte16:48

Yes, well I think the gossip columns had some fun.

Rocco Forte16:51

with me, but I was never a playboy. I never worked too hard to be a playboy. I think uh being a playboy is a full-time occupation. I never managed to do that.

Presenter16:58

You didn't break many hearts.

Rocco Forte17:01

I had uh I don't think I broke too many hearts.

Presenter17:05

Did your heart get broken?

Rocco Forte17:07

Once or twice, yes.

Presenter17:09

So you didn't get married till you were forty one. Why did you leave it so long?

Rocco Forte17:14

I don't know. I think you actually have to have the attitude of mind that you want to get married before you do. Uh but I think probably because the right girl came along.

Presenter17:21

And she was uh she is twenty years younger than you.

Rocco Forte17:24

Yeah.

Rocco Forte17:26

Uh you wouldn't think so, the way she she tries to tell to organize my life.

Presenter17:30

But you like being bossed.

Rocco Forte17:31

Not too not too much. I've drawn my demarcation line and so far I haven't d retreated from it, which he keeps trying.

Presenter17:39

So life is very different these days.

Rocco Forte17:42

Yes, so uh of course once you get married you do li lead a different life. You spend more time at home, once you have children, it of course uh everything changes uh quite out of all proportion.

Presenter17:53

You've got two small daughters.

Rocco Forte17:54

Yes, two year old one's just had its second birthday and one's only eight and a half weeks old. And they're of course absolute uh delight.

Presenter18:03

You of course yourself were the only boy with five sisters, weren't you?

Rocco Forte18:07

Yes, and I managed to survive.

Presenter18:10

Are you then going to go on with your family in search of a a son to carry on the dynasty?

Rocco Forte18:15

I have every intention, but it's just as much my wife's decision as mine. She's the one who's got to do the work.

Rocco Forte18:20

So, um I don't know. I think we'll certainly have another go. I really wanted the first one to be a boy'cause then I've got it all out of the way.

Rocco Forte18:27

But the second one, I was quite happy in a way that it was a a girl, because I thought I think if my if it had been a boy, my wife said, Probably that's enough. Now she's got to have another girl, so at least we'll have three.

Presenter18:37

Why has she got to uh do you presume that um a girl can't inherit?

Rocco Forte18:42

They're at all these days girls do everything. They probably do everything better than men, particularly in this country.

Presenter18:47

I suppose it's the name, isn't it, that that um you you want the f the forte business to be run by a forte forever?

Rocco Forte18:55

I think it would please my father if he knew there was a a forty to carry on the dynasty as it were. And it would please me as well.

Presenter19:02

Another record, please.

Rocco Forte19:04

The next record is from Carmen, La La Mours and Maisieur Belle. I don't know why I've particularly why I've chosen this record. I think my inclination had been for another Italian record. I think we've probably had enough of that. So a truly European number, a French composer and and a set in Spain.

Rocco Forte19:51

Peace.

Speaker 419:55

Will not hear the message

Speaker 420:14

Eton fondle in a journey, charming, citizen.

Presenter20:18

It's not it

Rocco Forte20:19

Uh

Speaker 420:22

Yeah.

Presenter20:23

Maria Callas singing the Habanera from Bizet's Carmen with the Paris Opera Chorus conducted by Georges Preetre.

Presenter20:31

Can we talk now, Rocco Forte, about Trust House Forte versus the Savoy Group, that being the Savoy Hotel itself, the Connaught, the Barclay and Claridge's hotels here in London?

Rocco Forte20:43

We would have to bring that up.

Presenter20:44

Yeah.

Presenter20:45

Well, your father stalked them for years, and um never quite managed to capture them, and now you're carrying on the battle. Why do you want them, Semma?

Rocco Forte20:56

Well it's not a question of wanting them so much. I mean we say my father stalked them for years. We made a takeover bid in 1971 and acquired 70% of the shares. But because of the share structure that they have, the odd share structure, we only have 42% of the votes. But effectively we own 70% of that business. So whilst there's a possibility of gaining control, I think we should pursue our action.

Presenter21:19

But why?

Rocco Forte21:23

No, they fit in very well into our luxury hotel grouping. They're historic hotels and they have a certain cachet.

Presenter21:30

But there are those who would say that you want them really more for that, for their their cachet and their the fact that they represent the kind of epitome of the upper crust, than that you want them for business reasons.

Rocco Forte21:41

The group is well recognised and after my father's had every accolade he needs to have. He doesn't need anything more. It's also good business f for us. We invested in those hotels at a good moment. We paid forty million for our seventy percent. It's worth considerably more than that today. And we believe that we can improve the profitability of that group quite considerably. That we make a very good return on our investment.

Presenter22:05

But why then do people persist in writing that it is a family obsession? The inference being that

Presenter22:12

In some deeper sense, you you want to own these hotels to prove that the Forte family has now completely and entirely arrived.

Rocco Forte22:22

People like romantic stories and it's very romantic to write about it in that light. And uh one newspaper writes a story like that, it's picked up by others and it and it continues and becomes a a sort of form of mythology. There's nothing other than a strict business approach to this. Yes, they're nice hotels, yes, we like owning nice hotels, but as far as creating a position for ourselves in this country or anywhere else for that matter, it's completely irrelevant. Funnily enough, the catalyst for us making the bid was the sale of the whole Savoy frontage on the Strand to a a property development company for virtually nothing. A third of the rooms of Savoy were just sold off, and here were the people defending this bastion of British heritage. Hotels need money spending on them, and you can only spend money on them if you generate profits out of them. For ten years prior to us making a bid, the Savoy made virtually no profits at all. There was no money spent on the fabric of the operation. They had to keep selling off bits and pieces of property to keep afloat.

Presenter23:21

Do you believe that in the end THF will own the Savoy Group?

Rocco Forte23:25

Yes, I think it'll take some time, but I think at the end of the day we'll be there.

Presenter23:28

Should we have another record?

Rocco Forte23:30

The next uh record's a piece of of Chopin. I like listening to Chopin in the evening. I find it very relaxing. And I think perhaps if I find a little bit of alcohol on the desert island from some tropical fruit, I'll be able to listen to it while I have my sun down.

Presenter24:42

Chopin Nocturne opus nine, number one in B flat minor played by Arthur Rubinstein.

Presenter24:49

So, mister Forte, you you stay in your own hotels. The staff must quake when you enter.

Rocco Forte24:55

Not at all. I stay in our hotels obviously because I travel a lot on business. I always give good warning when I turn up. I once didn't actually. I w I was shooting up in Yorkshire actually. I had a and we have a little hotel in Northallerton which I'd never seen and I about six o'clock one afternoon I decided to go along and have a look at it and I didn't warn the manager beforehand and I arrived.

Rocco Forte25:17

And there was a a girl at the reception desk and I said, Is the manager here? and she said, He's not here at the moment. I said, Well, where is he? She said, He's resting. I said, Well, there's a management flat here, isn't there? So could you ask him to come down? So she rang up. She then said, Who's who wants him? and I said, Mr Mr Forty So she relayed that back. And then she turned round to me and said, Which Mr Forty? So I said, Rocco Forty. And then she said, Yes, I'm sure, I'll tell you it is Mr Forty. And this poor fellow came down about five minutes later, very dishevelled, in quite a state, and I swore I'd never do that again.

Presenter25:50

Poor chap. But do you do you then sit in his restaurant well, not his, but do do you sit in restaurants and send the food back?

Rocco Forte25:57

No, certainly not. I've never done that in my life. If I have any complaints about our operations I deal with that quietly and and privately.

Presenter26:04

But you like your food, don't you?

Rocco Forte26:06

Very much indeed. I've been brought up with good food all my life.

Presenter26:07

Yeah.

Presenter26:10

So how do you um control the weight?

Rocco Forte26:13

I take a lot of exercise, or I try and take a lot of exercise. I I took up running a few years ago. I started running marathons, and I do the London one every year, and that makes me work very hard and get fit at least once a year.

Presenter26:26

Do you complete it?

Rocco Forte26:27

Yes, well certainly. No point in doing it if I don't complete it. I've done six London and New York.

Rocco Forte26:33

Not only do I complete it, I complete it in quite a reasonable time. My ambition is to do it in under three hours, which actually I think is possible, allowing for my normal life to get the training in, which is difficult.

Presenter26:44

How do you do that then? How living in London, how do you train? I mean, you must have to run ten miles a day.

Rocco Forte26:48

I run home from the office in the evenings very often.

Rocco Forte26:51

I sometimes run in the mornings. Obviously if I'm training for a marathon I've I build it up.

Presenter26:55

But then you arrive sweating and hot and horrid.

Rocco Forte26:59

At home.

Presenter27:00

Or it will

Rocco Forte27:00

That's right. My wife's used to seeing me like that.

Presenter27:04

Shall we have your next record?

Rocco Forte27:05

The next record is uh Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. I wanted to to choose one of Beethoven's symphonies. I think this one is his best. And I think if my spirits were flagging, I think this would help to put some stiffness into my back.

Presenter28:20

The opening of the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony played by the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Otto Klemperer.

Presenter28:28

Is it true that you never ever allow um one-armed bandits into your establishments? You don't have any gambling machines in them?

Rocco Forte28:35

No, we don't, as a general rule. I mean, I think we do have some in very controlled environments. Some of the p uh power operations that we operate have have one arm band, but they tend to be electronic games rather than than one arm band.

Presenter28:47

Why is that?

Rocco Forte28:48

Well, originally, I mean, it used to be on have them on motorway service areas and they attracted the wrong type of person and and wrong and actually put other people off coming to the est the those establishments. And that's why we stopped it in the first in the first instance. But generally we've never gone into g gambling of any of any kind.

Presenter29:06

You would never buy a casino.

Rocco Forte29:07

No, we've kept well away from well away from that. It's not a business that we know, it's a business that's very difficult. We're not anti-gambling as such. I mean, I've gambled, I have a flutter on the horses, I've gone to a casino uh as as has my father. So it's not that we're anti-gambling, we're not sort of uh high church or something, sort of it's against our our moral principles. But the business has got to be uh have a sound base and a and a sound philosophy, and that way the people who work within it know exactly where they are and and what and what we're trying to do.

Presenter29:38

And would you agree that that the philosophy of your company is patriarchal and tender?

Presenter29:44

but quite strict and very respectful.

Rocco Forte29:48

Yes, I suppi I I suppose it is, yes. Patriarchal uh in the s in in as much as it can be in a in a business is the size that we are today. But certainly the instincts uh relating to that uh yes, and and uh the need to look after our people, and in turn they look after the business.

Presenter30:05

Your last record, please.

Rocco Forte30:07

The last record I've chosen is uh Isverdi's Rekkin and uh D S E R.

Rocco Forte30:13

I like this piece because of the power the human voice comes through.

Presenter31:19

The Diez Ere from Verdi's Requiem with the London Symphony Orchestra Chorus, conducted by Leonard Bernstein.

Presenter31:26

So uh we come to the three moments of decision. First of all, which record is more important to you or will be more important to you on the island than any of the others?

Rocco Forte31:36

I think probably the the Verde's Requiem.

Rocco Forte31:40

I think there's a lot in it to to listen to, a lot of variety in it. And I think if the rescue ship didn't come, it would help to compose my mind for for the other world.

Presenter31:40

Uh

Presenter31:52

And you can be reading at the same time if you'd like to. You can read the Bible, you can read the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can also read another book which you can choose. What will that be?

Rocco Forte32:01

I've always had a a slight guilt complex. I didn't apply myself at Oxford as much as I should have done and uh Dante's Divine Comedy was was part of the the the curriculum and uh I didn't study it in as n as much depth as I should have done. I think on a desert island I have plenty of time to do that, so I think I'd probably take that with me.

Presenter32:20

And your luxury, what can we supply you?

Rocco Forte32:22

I I don't know, I thought a lot about this. I think it's rather rather difficult, but in the end I think uh if I'm allowed to I'd take a a snooker table with me,'cause I'm amazed by um or the exploits of these snooker players. I've run sees on a lot on television these days. And every time I try my hand at it myself, I'm completely hopeless. And I think perhaps when I does that I have enough time to practice and get my proficiency up.

Presenter32:45

Certainly, and an endless supply of chalk for the end of the cues.

Rocco Forte32:48

Yeah.

Presenter32:49

Ha ha ha.

Rocco Forte32:49

It might also, of course, it could be quite useful if there's a shelter, or actually, I could chop it up and use it for firewood. Oh, no, you're not allowed to do that.

Presenter32:55

Oh no, you're not allowed to do that. No, no, no, no. It must be of no practical use at all. Just as long as you promise just to play snooker on it and not to get underneath it for sure, do you think it's a good question?

Rocco Forte33:02

I promise I do that.

Presenter33:05

Rocco Forty, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Rocco Forte33:08

Thank you.

Speaker 333:17

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.