Alfred Wainwright

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty eight, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a writer and an artist, but first of all a guide. He is the constant companion of any serious walker in the Lake District. Indeed, a man would be a fool to set out without him. He's charted its every fell and tarn, and many too in the Yorkshire Dales, in Scotland, and in North Wales books written in his own hand, accompanied by detailed maps and careful pen and ink drawings. The guides, which have sold more than a million now, are a walker's passport to pleasure. They're known, of course, fondly as Wainwrights. My Castaway is Alfred Wainwright.

Presenter1:09

Not a name, mister Wainwright, that um you revealed for years, Alfred. Do you dislike it so much?

Alfred Wainwright1:16

It's a nice name for a little boy, but it doesn't suit a man, I think.

Alfred Wainwright1:22

And uh I tried to keep it anonymous for a very long time.

Presenter1:26

But you failed in the end.

Alfred Wainwright1:27

I failed in the end, yeah.

Presenter1:29

You've got a reputation for being a bit of a recluse, not liking publicity. Why is that?

Alfred Wainwright1:36

I suppose it's true to some extent because uh

Alfred Wainwright1:39

With one or two exceptions, I do prefer my own company to that of other people.

Alfred Wainwright1:46

and uh during my walking years I always walked alone.

Presenter1:51

But is it that you don't like other people? Do you think you're naturally antisocial?

Alfred Wainwright1:57

Yes, I am antisocial, and getting worse as I get older. It started a shyness.

Alfred Wainwright2:04

It isn't shyness now. I can face anybody now.

Alfred Wainwright2:08

and not feel inferior to them.

Alfred Wainwright2:11

But uh I'd much rather.

Alfred Wainwright2:14

Be alone.

Presenter2:16

Well, now you're an ideal castaway in that sense, because most people come along onto the desert island and say, Oh, I'm going to miss people, but you don't care about that at all.

Alfred Wainwright2:25

No, not at all, no.

Presenter2:28

So you're looking forward to being castaway?

Alfred Wainwright2:31

Well it depends on the conditions. I mean, if there's a chip shop on the island I can go on for years.

Presenter2:37

There isn't one of those, and it's hot. Do you like the heat?

Alfred Wainwright2:41

Not particularly.

Alfred Wainwright2:42

Yeah.

Presenter2:44

And music. Do you prefer silence or do you like music?

Alfred Wainwright2:48

Prefer silence.

Alfred Wainwright2:50

I think I should make it quite clear that music has never played an important part in my life. It's never been an inspiration to me.

Alfred Wainwright2:59

Uh rather an irritation very often.

Alfred Wainwright3:03

The transformation in my life came with the talkies.

Alfred Wainwright3:08

and you'll find that all my tunes belong to past ages.

Presenter3:14

All right, let's have the first one then. What is it to be?

Alfred Wainwright3:17

Well, I was in the twenties before I heard any music at all.

Alfred Wainwright3:22

and I immediately became fond of the Viennese waltzes of the Strauss family.

Alfred Wainwright3:27

And my first choice from a a dozen Strauss waltzes that I greatly enjoy would be Tales from the Vienna Woods, sung by Richard

Speaker 43:39

The wheels of wood, so many stories unfold, of eyes of blue, of eyes so bloom, of sweetest maids without the throne, the stories yen of wood and flows, the sweetest tales that could be told, Love stories they are sing. How I sang of love's young dream to the murmur of a stream, and to my name to gay, how I sang of love's young dream to the murmur of a stream, and to my care sweet ribbons away.

Presenter4:38

Richard Talber singing the Strausswalts Tales from the Vienna Woods.

Presenter4:43

Mr Wainwright, the problem of course with writing wonderful guide books is that you attract people to the landscapes that you love and hence destroy some of the peace that you love. Does that worry you?

Alfred Wainwright4:57

Well I've often been

Alfred Wainwright4:59

charged with that, but I don't think so, and I certainly don't reproach myself about it.

Alfred Wainwright5:05

There's been such a change in leisure habits that uh when I started on the Fells there were very few walkers there. Nowadays they walk in procession, and they would have come anyway, because they've more money to spend, they've more leisure time.

Presenter5:13

Now it

Presenter5:20

But when you've ever met them you've walked straight on.

Alfred Wainwright5:25

Try to avoid them, you know.

Presenter5:27

How do you do that? I mean, if you meet a lone walker on top of a fell and you're walking well, you've got to say something.

Presenter5:35

Yeah

Alfred Wainwright5:35

Haven't really. You can strike off in another direction. There are boulders you can get behind.

Alfred Wainwright5:41

No. My pet hit, of course, are school parties, where you get a caterpillar of about forty kids coming along.

Alfred Wainwright5:50

And you say good morning to the first one and

Alfred Wainwright5:54

The rest of'em have to share that because I'm not going to say it forty times.

Presenter5:58

Can you remember when you were first bitten by the walking bug?

Alfred Wainwright6:04

Well, that goes back a very long time, because it was the only pastime we had when we were children in the nineteen.

Alfred Wainwright6:13

Twenties.

Alfred Wainwright6:15

or earlier than that even. Nobody ever had a penny to spend, so we amused ourselves in ways that doesn't seem to appeal at all to children these days. We play hide and seek, we could play marbles along the gutter, kick a rag ball about.

Presenter6:25

Goodness.

Alfred Wainwright6:33

Collect cigarette cards.

Alfred Wainwright6:36

It is a wonderful life, really.

Presenter6:38

This was in Blackburn in Manchester.

Alfred Wainwright6:39

This was in Blackburn, yes.

Presenter6:40

Okay.

Alfred Wainwright6:42

Well, I was brought up in a two-up and two-down cottage.

Alfred Wainwright6:47

It was exactly like ten thousand other cottages in Blightman.

Presenter6:52

What did your father do?

Alfred Wainwright6:54

He was a stonemason.

Presenter6:54

Yeah.

Alfred Wainwright6:56

I would call him an itinerant storm mason, because he travelled about the north of England looking for work. No every member of the family was born in a different town in the north of England. But he was very largely out of work, couldn't find work.

Presenter7:12

So you are very poor?

Alfred Wainwright7:14

Very poor. Yeah.

Alfred Wainwright7:17

But so was everybody else. You never felt that you were poor, because everybody was in the same boat.

Alfred Wainwright7:24

People accepting the position. That's the way they were born, that to go in the mill and work for a living.

Presenter7:30

The cotton mill Yeah.

Alfred Wainwright7:31

Yeah.

Presenter7:31

Yeah?

Alfred Wainwright7:31

Cotton mills all round the house.

Presenter7:34

Let's hear your second record to win.

Alfred Wainwright7:36

Well, yes, as I say, I didn't hear any music until the nineteen thirties really, after talkies came in.

Alfred Wainwright7:45

And I was immediately

Alfred Wainwright7:48

Fond of the American songwriters Irving Berlin, Jerome Kern, Coleporter.

Alfred Wainwright7:56

So the talk has made a tremendous difference to me.

Alfred Wainwright8:01

And uh I would like to select one that became immensely popular, and it was called Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.

Speaker 48:11

They said someday you'll find All who love are abled When your heart's on fire You must realize

Speaker 48:25

Smoke gets in

Speaker 48:32

So I chaffed them and I gaily laughed.

Speaker 48:36

To think they could doubt my love

Presenter8:40

Well, now, as I understand it, the young Alfred Wainwright was a bit of a clever clogs and destined not to go to the cotton mill, is that right?

Alfred Wainwright8:49

I think I think I must admit that that that is right.

Presenter8:50

Admit.

Alfred Wainwright8:53

I did very well at the board school and uh the teachers all said you ought to go to the central school in the middle of the town, which I did with considerable apprehension because I d I had no decent clothes to wear, no clo no shoes, but there I did extremely well and came first in every subject in the first year. There were about twenty subjects.

Alfred Wainwright9:20

There wasn't much money coming in at all.

Alfred Wainwright9:24

Um I wanted to help out. And uh at the age of thirteen there was an advert in the local paper for an office boy in the town hall.

Alfred Wainwright9:37

And I applied for that and got it.

Alfred Wainwright9:40

whereas everybody else that I knew was going into the cotton mill.

Alfred Wainwright9:44

I wouldn't have liked that.

Presenter9:46

How much did you get a week to remember?

Alfred Wainwright9:48

Yes, a magnificent sum.

Alfred Wainwright9:51

I started at fifteen shillings a week, and I was only thirteen years old, and I remember running all the way home to tell my mother.

Alfred Wainwright10:00

who uh had a hard time really. I mean I used to waking up in the middle of the night and I could hear the mangle going in the kitchen downstairs because to make things meet she had to take in washing from rather more affluent neighbours.

Alfred Wainwright10:19

So that was sad.

Presenter10:22

Well now let's move on to to nineteen thirty, when you were aged twenty three and you took your first holiday away from home.

Alfred Wainwright10:30

By that age I had saved up five pounds.

Alfred Wainwright10:34

and I'd heard a lot about the Lake District, which until then had been a world away.

Alfred Wainwright10:40

although there are only sixty miles between us.

Alfred Wainwright10:44

I did, as everybody told me went up to Orrest Head, which overlooks Windermere.

Alfred Wainwright10:50

And

Alfred Wainwright10:51

I just couldn't believe that such beauty could exist. It made a whole world of difference to me.

Alfred Wainwright10:58

That did change my life.

Alfred Wainwright11:01

I decided then that this is a place I wanted to live.

Alfred Wainwright11:06

nineteen forty one.

Alfred Wainwright11:09

I applied for a job in Kendall.

Alfred Wainwright11:12

The town hall in candle.

Alfred Wainwright11:14

And got it.

Presenter11:15

And that was the beginning.

Alfred Wainwright11:16

That was the next power.

Presenter11:16

And the next part of your life.

Alfred Wainwright11:18

Yeah.

Presenter11:19

Let's pause there for your third record.

Alfred Wainwright11:22

Now, this is a tearjerk.

Presenter11:25

My handkerchief is ready.

Alfred Wainwright11:25

Bye out.

Alfred Wainwright11:26

You'd need a hanker for this.

Alfred Wainwright11:29

Um another game we played as boys was Cowboys and Indians, and I got very fond of the Wild West.

Alfred Wainwright11:37

And I became very fond of Westerns in the cinema. I still am.

Alfred Wainwright11:43

I'd I'd still rather see a Western film than uh any other.

Alfred Wainwright11:48

But accompanying the films were Hillbilly Weston songs.

Alfred Wainwright11:52

But there was one in particular that always brought a tear to my eye.

Alfred Wainwright11:57

And it's a story of the dedication of a cowboy for the animals in his care.

Alfred Wainwright12:04

The setting is a wild winter's day.

Alfred Wainwright12:08

snowstorms, and the cattle being brought down from the range to the shelter of the corral.

Alfred Wainwright12:15

And one little calf is missing, and a cowboy volunteers to go and look for it.

Alfred Wainwright12:21

And what happened?

Alfred Wainwright12:23

You will now hear in this story called There's an Empty Cot in the Bunk House Tonight.

Speaker 412:32

I've got three in the morning.

Speaker 412:36

And put that maverick to bed.

Speaker 412:40

Then he flopped on his back, not able to move, this morning poor Limpi was dead.

Speaker 412:49

There's a cot unused in the bunkhouse tonight. There's a pento's head hanging low. The spur

Presenter13:00

There's an empty cot in the bunkhouse tonight. The singer was Rex Allen. It's terribly sad that.

Presenter13:10

It's gonna depress you.

Alfred Wainwright13:11

Yeah.

Presenter13:11

Yeah.

Presenter13:13

You were thirty four years old, and um at last you'd managed to get to live in the place where your heart was in the Lake District. But you still hadn't written anything more than a government report at this stage, had you?

Alfred Wainwright13:20

Boss.

Alfred Wainwright13:26

No, I hadn't.

Alfred Wainwright13:28

No, not really.

Presenter13:30

So when did you decide on this project to write all about the Lake District in such detail?

Alfred Wainwright13:35

Well

Presenter13:35

What

Alfred Wainwright13:37

I was trained as an accountant.

Alfred Wainwright13:39

And uh

Alfred Wainwright13:41

When I came to the Lake District I had a golden opportunity of getting out walking on the fells. And although there weren't many people walking in those days, I was always coming across people who who were lost.

Presenter13:54

That was all

Alfred Wainwright13:58

There were no guide books to the fells, and it was important that there should be.

Alfred Wainwright14:03

So more for my amusement than anything else I started to write the guide books. I thought when I'm an old man and I can't walk the hills, these will be memories for me.

Alfred Wainwright14:15

I finished the first volume after two years working every day night on them, so I I really got obsessed by what I was doing.

Presenter14:19

Nice.

Alfred Wainwright14:25

I was able to illustrate them with drawings. I was able to give features the natural features of the mountain, the w routes of ascent, the ridge routes to the next one, the view, the summit. Dealt with them all like that, one after another.

Alfred Wainwright14:43

I finished the first book of uh some two hundred pages and uh I thought uh

Alfred Wainwright14:50

These might be useful to other people, too.

Alfred Wainwright14:54

Under

Alfred Wainwright14:56

I let half a dozen people see them, and they all, without exception, said you ought to get this published.

Alfred Wainwright15:04

At the time, although I had only thirty five pounds saved on,

Alfred Wainwright15:09

I went to a local printer.

Alfred Wainwright15:12

and asked what it would cost to have a two thousand copies made.

Alfred Wainwright15:18

And he he worked it out. It said nine hundred pounds.

Alfred Wainwright15:23

I said I only got thirty-five.

Alfred Wainwright15:27

Well, he said, Never mind, this book will sell.

Alfred Wainwright15:31

Pay me off as you sell them.

Alfred Wainwright15:34

and he went ahead and printed them.

Alfred Wainwright15:36

Now that was a wonderful thing.

Alfred Wainwright15:39

Now that firm continued to publish, but were taken over by Westmoreland Gazette.

Alfred Wainwright15:48

and Westmoreland Gazette have continued ever since to publish most of my books, and they've been a great friend to me, and I wanted every page to be exactly as I had written it by hand. So they were all photographed.

Alfred Wainwright16:05

And that's how the boat came into being.

Presenter16:08

You used the word obsessed just now. I mean, it it was a kind of obsession, wasn't it?

Alfred Wainwright16:11

Yeah.

Alfred Wainwright16:12

Actually what?

Presenter16:14

It must have dominated your life.

Alfred Wainwright16:15

It did.

Alfred Wainwright16:17

Nothing mattered to me except getting these books done. I had a single track mine.

Alfred Wainwright16:22

And it ended finally with my wife walking out and taking the dog, and I never saw her again.

Presenter16:28

And did you blame her?

Alfred Wainwright16:29

Not at all.

Alfred Wainwright16:31

Well now she's stuck it for thirty odd years.

Alfred Wainwright16:36

Right. What's your next question?

Presenter16:38

I'm going to ask you for another record now.

Alfred Wainwright16:41

Another type of song that I always enjoyed were the Italian.

Alfred Wainwright16:46

Tenors singing Neapolitan songs. One of my favourites, and I think everybody's favourite.

Alfred Wainwright16:53

was Come Back to Suriname.

Speaker 417:19

Ah, Charadio, the sienti siesti churande no proci vio.

Alfred Wainwright17:24

Uh

Presenter17:57

Come back to Sorrento, Luciano Pavarotti with the National Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Gian Carlo Giamello.

Presenter18:05

What makes a good walker, then, mister Wainwright? How would you define a good man on the fells?

Alfred Wainwright18:12

I don't think there's any art about walking, and I can't understand why you get tremendous volumes in how to walk.

Alfred Wainwright18:21

Uh it's a natural thing.

Alfred Wainwright18:24

But on the fells, which are quite rough, you must take care to watch where you're putting your feet.

Alfred Wainwright18:30

Um there's a temptation always to look round at the view as you're walking along. You mustn't do that. That's the way accidents happen.

Presenter18:39

You've often slipped on the top, haven't you, and a canvas on on the top. That must be a marvellous experience.

Alfred Wainwright18:41

Canvas on on the top

Alfred Wainwright18:44

It is a moral experience, yes.

Alfred Wainwright18:47

Yeah.

Presenter18:48

What's it like when you wake up?

Alfred Wainwright18:49

Eer it's eerie.

Alfred Wainwright18:53

There's absolute sound.

Alfred Wainwright18:55

and all around the mountains are just black silhouettes.

Alfred Wainwright18:59

And then gradually you get the grey dawn. And invariably in in the lake district at dawn the valleys are filled with a white vapor, which gradually dissolves, and you watch it gradually dissolves and reveal the the fields and pastures below.

Alfred Wainwright19:21

Wonderful experience.

Alfred Wainwright19:23

Always alone,

Alfred Wainwright19:25

You know that you're only the person on the fells that morning. It's like being a king.

Alfred Wainwright19:31

wandering where you like, this is my throne, and knowing that for four or five hours at any rate you've got the fells to yourself to wander just where you like, and nobody else will appear on the scene.

Presenter19:45

Let's have another record.

Alfred Wainwright19:48

But it will be clear up to now that I only like music that has a good tune with it.

Alfred Wainwright19:54

A tune that haunts you, that you can whistle.

Alfred Wainwright19:57

And then

Alfred Wainwright19:58

After the war

Alfred Wainwright20:00

There were several musicals.

Alfred Wainwright20:03

Like Oklahoma, the King and I, sound of music.

Alfred Wainwright20:10

South Pacific.

Alfred Wainwright20:12

that were a real delight to me, and I could listen to them over and over again, and sing them to myself for weeks afterwards.

Alfred Wainwright20:22

But the one I've chosen is uh

Alfred Wainwright20:25

The first song in Oklahoma, Oh What a Beautiful Morning.

Speaker 420:30

Oh what a beautiful morning. Oh what a beautiful day I got a beautiful feeling Everything's going my way All the sounds of the earth are like music All the sounds are visible.

Presenter20:59

Gordon McRae singing Oh, What a Beautiful Morning from the soundtrack of the film Oklahoma.

Alfred Wainwright21:04

What's a wonderful, inspiring song.

Presenter21:04

Whatsoever

Alfred Wainwright21:07

And you notice he talks about the sounds of the earth are like music. Now, that's the sort of music that I really prefer.

Alfred Wainwright21:14

The tinkle of a mountain stream, the twittering of birds, the rustle of leaves in a forest in autumn, the sound of the wind sighing across the mountain tops,

Alfred Wainwright21:27

That's music to me.

Alfred Wainwright21:30

And there's never any discord, it's harmony.

Presenter21:36

You're um you're eighty one years old now. Do you still walk a lot?

Alfred Wainwright21:40

No.

Alfred Wainwright21:42

No.

Alfred Wainwright21:43

No, unfortunately my eyes have gone in the last two or three years. And uh I mean, I always counsel people to watch where they're putting their feet on these rough mountain tracks.

Alfred Wainwright21:56

Now

Alfred Wainwright21:57

The last time.

Alfred Wainwright22:00

that I I did a fellow.

Alfred Wainwright22:03

It was a pouring wind day, terrible.

Alfred Wainwright22:08

and I was stumbling and slipping all over the place, and it wasn't because that my glasses was mistied.

Alfred Wainwright22:15

It was because I couldn't see where I was putting my feet.

Alfred Wainwright22:20

And that's the last time I did a fellow.

Alfred Wainwright22:23

and the mountains

Alfred Wainwright22:25

wept tears for me that day.

Alfred Wainwright22:28

Never stop running.

Alfred Wainwright22:32

Latterly I've been more engaged in writing than than walking and

Presenter22:37

Well, you'll be able to sit on the desert island, mister Wainwright, and go for all these walks in your head, because you know them all so well.

Alfred Wainwright22:45

Yes.

Presenter22:45

Ha have you ever been abroad, by the way?

Alfred Wainwright22:48

No, I've never been on a ship or an aeroplane.

Alfred Wainwright22:52

I hate going south from Canal.

Alfred Wainwright22:56

I have no ambition to travel abroad. I couldn't face the uh the customs and the new currency and the foreign language and the foreign food and the passport.

Presenter23:10

Well, you're going to face none of that in being cast away,'cause we plonk you directly on to the desert island, you see, and you will sit there in the tropical sunshine. Is is that right?

Alfred Wainwright23:22

Would there be anybody to look after me?

Presenter23:24

Nobody.

Alfred Wainwright23:27

Because I can't look after myself.

Alfred Wainwright23:30

I've always been well looked after.

Alfred Wainwright23:34

Would there be chip shops on the island?

Presenter23:36

Nope.

Alfred Wainwright23:38

No, well I'll be dead in in a month. In malnutrition.

Presenter23:44

I'm going to ask you for another record. We've got to the sixth one. What's that to be?

Alfred Wainwright23:49

Well, I've always regretted there was never a good walking song for the Lake District.

Alfred Wainwright23:55

But uh I did hear some time ago.

Alfred Wainwright23:58

wa a record sung by a a cher children's choir that uh I became very fond of, and it's called The Happy Wanderer.

Speaker 424:08

I love to go wandering along the mountain track.

Alfred Wainwright24:11

Wondering

Speaker 424:17

And as I go, I love to see my knapsack on my back.

Alfred Wainwright24:17

Because I go

Speaker 424:25

My dream, my drug, my dream.

Speaker 424:35

And all I danced on my bed.

Alfred Wainwright24:38

Back on my

Presenter24:41

The Happy Wanderer a good walking song, that. Well, now, mister Wainwright, I understand that you give all the royalties from your books, of which there must be quite a bit, to animal charities. Is that right?

Alfred Wainwright24:54

Not strictly right. No, and I I really should correct a misapprehension that's got into the national press about this. I don't give my royalties to charities.

Alfred Wainwright25:06

What happens is that in my contract with the publishers I insert a clause which says I hereby renounce all rights to any royalties earned by this book.

Alfred Wainwright25:19

And leave their distribution to the discretion of the publishers.

Alfred Wainwright25:25

So the position is.

Alfred Wainwright25:27

That I don't receive any royalties, but the publishers who I trust implicitly.

Alfred Wainwright25:34

Make an equivalent donation to the registered charity, which they know I support.

Presenter25:41

And which chart is that?

Alfred Wainwright25:43

Well, there are two now. There's uh Animal Rescue Cumbria.

Alfred Wainwright25:49

And another that I founded two or three years ago, the Wainwright Animal Trust, which which helps other welfare, animal welfare or organisations in need of financial help.

Presenter26:01

What sort of animals do you rescue?

Alfred Wainwright26:03

Got some dogs mainly.

Presenter26:06

Rescue them from what?

Alfred Wainwright26:09

From distress.

Alfred Wainwright26:11

We have actually more cats and kittens than dogs.

Alfred Wainwright26:14

And there's some

Alfred Wainwright26:16

Awful stories, really. Kittens being tied up in plastic bags and left on rubbish tips and dogs being thrown out of cars on the motorway because they're no longer wanted. Now

Alfred Wainwright26:29

We try to find homes for those after nursing them back to health.

Presenter26:35

And your your wife, your second wife, Betty?

Alfred Wainwright26:38

Yeah.

Presenter26:38

has to do with all of this, doesn't she?

Alfred Wainwright26:40

She supervises the place, spends a lot of time there.

Presenter26:43

And she supervises you as well.

Alfred Wainwright26:45

Oh yes, yes.

Presenter26:48

What does she do for you?

Alfred Wainwright26:50

Everything.

Alfred Wainwright26:52

Everett.

Alfred Wainwright26:53

She does everything for me.

Alfred Wainwright26:56

and especially now that I'm approaching senility.

Alfred Wainwright27:00

I absolutely depend on it.

Presenter27:03

So we have another record.

Alfred Wainwright27:05

I often go to Scotland, and in fact I've been visiting Scotland for forty years.

Alfred Wainwright27:10

Who was going up the west coast?

Alfred Wainwright27:14

And um

Alfred Wainwright27:16

As you go up the west coast you get a view of sky across the water. In certain conditions it's magic. Sometimes it's misty, a bit mysterious. Sometimes it's silhouetted against the setting sun.

Alfred Wainwright27:30

And of course uh the most romantic period of Scotland's history was the coming of Bonnie Prince Charlie, who last landed on the west coast.

Alfred Wainwright27:40

gathered an army about him of Highlanders.

Alfred Wainwright27:43

went to Culloden where they suffered a terrible defeat and he had to fly back across Scotland.

Alfred Wainwright27:49

but finally got to the West Coast again, and went across to Skye, where he found refuge with Flora Macdonald. That's a wonderful story in Scottish history, and it's remembered in a song, the Sky Boat Song, which would now be my next choice.

Speaker 428:10

Bunny boats like a bird on the wing, run with the sailors cry Carry the lad that's born to be king over the sea

Speaker 428:26

Loud the winds howl, loud the waves roar, Thunderclaps rend the air.

Speaker 428:35

Battle our foes, stand by the shore, although they will not dare Speed funny boat like a bird on the wing, Farm would the sailors cry

Speaker 428:53

Carry the lad that's born to be king over the sea to the sky.

Presenter29:05

Kenneth McKellar with The Skyboat Song.

Presenter29:09

I should say that um before we met I received my orders from you, and that was not just your list of records, but also a list of things that you wanted to talk about, and one of them we haven't touched on yet is religion. So tell me about you and it.

Alfred Wainwright29:23

Well, I can soon dispose of that.

Alfred Wainwright29:26

because I've no time at all for an organized religion.

Presenter29:30

What about you, though? Do you have your own personal faith?

Alfred Wainwright29:34

I'm afraid not. No, I can't believe that we go to heaven or hell.

Presenter29:40

But can't you believe when you stand on top of those hills and see all that beauty that you've described, can't you believe there's something greater, some higher power?

Alfred Wainwright29:46

Yeah.

Alfred Wainwright29:49

Yes, but uh but it's a mystery that nobody's ever solved the beginning of the world.

Alfred Wainwright29:56

And it really is a wonderful world, a beautiful world.

Alfred Wainwright30:00

I'm sure somebody's created it.

Alfred Wainwright30:04

But I don't know who.

Presenter30:06

Your eighth record, if you would, please.

Alfred Wainwright30:09

I have two petty versions. One is musical background, which is very often out of place and uh seems totally wrong. It's unrealistic. The other is, of course,

Presenter30:19

Uh

Alfred Wainwright30:21

The cackling studio audiences. I hate them. I switch off.

Alfred Wainwright30:28

The one exception

Alfred Wainwright30:30

to background music occurred

Alfred Wainwright30:33

in what I consider to be the best film I've ever seen, because it was absolutely appropriate to the landscape and the scenery.

Alfred Wainwright30:43

And that was Doctor Zivargo. That was a wonderful film.

Alfred Wainwright30:47

and the music of Morris Jar simply fitted in absolutely.

Alfred Wainwright30:53

And there was one tune in it which I think became known as Lara's theme.

Alfred Wainwright31:01

And I would very much like to hear that.

Speaker 431:08

Uh

Alfred Wainwright31:08

Uh

Speaker 431:08

I'm where

Speaker 431:12

Fill blossoms in green and gold and there are dreams all about.

Presenter31:35

Lara's theme from the film Doctor Shivago, sung by Johnny Mathis.

Presenter31:40

Now then, mister Wainwright, the moment of decision. First of all, you have to decide which of those records you would like to have more than any of the others.

Alfred Wainwright31:49

Well, I think I would take Lara's thing.

Alfred Wainwright31:54

Because uh

Alfred Wainwright31:56

I'm regularly sentimental.

Alfred Wainwright31:58

Roman.

Alfred Wainwright32:00

And uh

Alfred Wainwright32:02

I'd like to dissolve away in a flood of tears. And and the

Alfred Wainwright32:07

Laracene would do it.

Presenter32:08

What about your book now? Because, as you know, you've got the Bible and you've got the complete works of Shakespeare.

Alfred Wainwright32:15

Well, I wouldn't want either of those because I couldn't read them.

Presenter32:15

Well, I was

Alfred Wainwright32:18

And that one wouldn't want a book at all.

Alfred Wainwright32:21

You've told me there are no chip shops on the island, so that I haven't a great deal of time to spend there before I

Alfred Wainwright32:28

Put it away.

Alfred Wainwright32:31

Um I wasn't had an ambition to grow a beard.

Alfred Wainwright32:36

And I've never been able to face people and the comments if I'd try to do it now.

Alfred Wainwright32:42

But on a desert island it would be ideal, wouldn't it?

Alfred Wainwright32:47

So I'd like a mirror, small mirror, just to see how it's getting on every day.

Alfred Wainwright32:53

And the other things that I would take

Alfred Wainwright32:58

Will be two photographs.

Alfred Wainwright33:01

One photograph of the Blackburn Rovers football team that won the FA Cup in nineteen twenty eight. That was really a highlight of my life.

Alfred Wainwright33:12

and the second would be of my wife.

Alfred Wainwright33:15

who has been a treasure to me, and continues to be.

Presenter33:20

when you can have the photographs instead of all the books.

Alfred Wainwright33:23

Yes, please.

Presenter33:24

And you can have a mirror for your luxury.

Alfred Wainwright33:26

The other

Presenter33:26

So you can have a good look at the beard.

Alfred Wainwright33:27

Be

Presenter33:29

And I'd like to say thank you very much indeed, Alfred Wainwright, for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 333:42

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio form.