Anita Dobson

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty eight, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is an East Ender, not simply by birth, but also by repute. Had fame not come her way, she might have been spending her days pulling pints in a cockney pub. As it is, she's made her name as the brassy but tender landlady of the Queen Vic in Albert Square. She is, of course, Anita Dobson.

Presenter0:50

Anita, do you sometimes think that you might have been quite happy pulling those pints in blissful anonymity?

Presenter0:58

There may have been a moment in my youth where I thought I could have been, but I know most definitely now that no, I couldn't have been happy. I did work in a pub in the East End for a short period when I was at drama school, in between terms, and I loved it. It was it was fun. But um I couldn't have spent the rest of my life just doing that. You like being famous? I like being an actress, and I'm very proud that I've been recognised.

Presenter1:22

Because of my

Presenter1:24

Ability, however small. I never wanted to be famous. I wanted to become.

Presenter1:29

well known for being an actress, which was slightly different because being famous you can just be famous for no reason at all. The spotlight of stardom can be a bit fierce sometimes, can't it? Yes, it feels a bit as if you've walked into a room where there's lots of light and then suddenly

Presenter1:44

All the arc lamps are turned on you and it becomes very brilliant and everybody's sort of watching you and and it is a bit of a shock until you get used to it. Well, we're going to cast you well out of it onto a beautiful peaceful island with only yourself for company. Can you bear that?

Anita Dobson1:57

Comic

Speaker 11:58

Uh

Presenter2:01

I think I could, for a certain amount of time. I am quite used to living on my own, and being on my own, and I do like my own company.

Presenter2:09

But I think if it was for too long I would crave.

Presenter2:13

Somebody else to talk to. Or at least a telephone. How will you keep busy then?

Presenter2:18

I'd probably if there were there would be animals there, presumably, I'd probably fish and collect flowers and uh make little bits of matting or something, and and generally nest somewhere, I think, find a tree and sort of nest into it.

Speaker 12:21

Mm, I've

Presenter2:32

We'll also be busy putting on the gramophone, and we shall start it up for you now and put on your first record. What is it? My first record is the first record I was ever given. It came with my record player, which was bought by my parents, and it was Little Eva, the locomotion, which I still think is a great record today.

Anita Dobson2:49

Everybody's doing a brand new dance now Come on baby, do the locomotion I know you get to like it if you give it a chance now Come on baby, do the local motion My little baby says I can do it with you

Anita Dobson3:07

It's easier than learning your ABC. So come on, come on, do the love promotion with me. You gotta swing your heels now.

Presenter3:20

Little Eva singing the locomotion. Don't tell me you used to play that on your dancette record player up the corner in the bedroom. And over again. It was the only record I had at the time.

Speaker 13:24

The corner

Presenter3:29

Until I collected more. So, yes, I played it over and over again. I loved it. Was that while you were sitting at the dressing table putting your eyes on?

Presenter3:36

I suppose I got my record player in my early teens and I suppose just becoming aware of makeup, yes. And Dusty Springfield was a great heroine of mine. I adored her voice and the way she looked. So I suppose that was the kind of look that I had. Layers of false eyelashes. Well, lots and lots and lots and lots of mascara and that sort of huge black line that sort of went and then winged up at the side, do you remember? And then you sort of painted false lashes underneath with a little brush and had loads and loads of sort of eyeshadow and so they looked like two huge round circles. And my little sister called me Panda Eyes because I looked so awful. And no lips, that awful sort of pan white stick. Do you remember Max Factor pan stick? Which used to just go straight over and so you had nothing but these huge black eyes. Were you a mod or a rocker?

Speaker 13:52

But layers of

Anita Dobson4:16

Right stick

Presenter4:24

I was a mod because I used to go in for the sort of long jackets and and the suits with the sort of slit up the side. You either had two vents or one, depending how trendy you were. And um later in life of course I discovered um fifties records and uh leather jackets and motorbikes and I love rock and roll, but in my teens I was definitely a mod. Parkers and motor scooters down to South End. This was this was in the East End, wasn't it? How did you live? What sort of family? Where where did you live?

Anita Dobson4:48

Personally

Presenter4:52

We lived in a council flat in Stepney, myself, my younger sister, mum and dad. What did your mum and dad do for a living?

Presenter4:59

Dad was a dress cutter, used to work for a big firm that is now closed down, called Blaines.

Presenter5:05

And mum used to do a bit of tailoring, so all my clothes were made for me. Dad used to cut them out, mum used to stitch them together and sew them. So you were the best dressed girl in Stepney, were you? Yes. I used to get ready in my sort of new togs, and then I'd stand there and say, What do I look like? and my mother would say, Million dollars, kid.

Speaker 15:15

Yeah.

Presenter5:23

Let's have another record. Well, the other one I've chosen is Cathy's Clown by the Everly Brothers, because they used to play it on School Journey. And I was madly in love with one of the boys then, who was in love with my best friend. And he always used to disappear round the pillar in the dance when I never knew what they were doing. But Cathy's Clown was on the record player.

Anita Dobson5:56

What's up?

Anita Dobson6:02

I hear

Presenter6:14

Cathy's Clown sung by the Everleigh brothers. So, Anita, it was a very happy East End childhood. Lots of knees ups and gets together at Christmas. Yes, it was a very, very happy childhood. I remember we used to go to my aunt's house, which is my mother's sister.

Presenter6:28

Um the whole family at Christmases and birthdays. The record play would be put on and everybody would sort of get the the drinks in from the local pub and the kids would stay up late and lots of sandwiches would be made and there we'd be in for the night. And did you perform? No, I was very shy about performing. Um and I still am now. If somebody says to me, Oh, go on, get up and sing a song, I hate it. I feel that I ought to have worked on it, be rehearsed and be able to present it. Um I'm not one of those people that likes to just sort of show off do it. No, no, I find that very daunting. When did the interest in the stage begin then when you were little?

Presenter7:05

Well, when I was very small, I used to go to a sort of dance troupe, the Ivy Travers dance troupe. And I had sort of, you know, the little um do you remember those sort of swimsuits with the elastic? They all sort of ruched together. Yes. I had a little pair of knickers and a little sort of bikini top that matched in bright red. And I used to do acrobatics and tap dancing and sing a bit, you know, mum made all the dresses. And I did that for quite a while.

Presenter7:28

And then when I went to grammar school,

Presenter7:31

It was very difficult to do bits of drama and to get an education, so that sort of fell by the wayside, and I concentrated much more on just, you know, being at school.

Presenter7:41

I wasn't very good. I wasn't very academic.

Presenter7:45

Ah, so when I left

Presenter7:47

I did try various other jobs for about four years and then realized that actually that was the thing I wanted to do most, and so I went to drama school. This was having worked for the Prue?

Presenter7:57

I did a bit of everything. I was a clerk for the Prudential Assurance, which I loved actually for about eighteen months. Then I did juvenile coat modelling in CNAs with. Yes, because I was so small I couldn't get into the bigger sizes.

Speaker 18:06

The coupter nets.

Presenter8:10

So I did that for a while. Then I did a bit of typing, reception work, and until eventually I was doing one day a week, temporary week typing.

Presenter8:18

Paying for, you know, tights and bits of makeup and giving mum some money and then not bothering to go to work any more'cause I didn't need any more money. So it got so lax, my sort of employment, that I had to do something. And then I thought, Okay, we'll do it properly. So I went to a drama class and applied for drama school, and that was the beginning. Except that at that stage you nearly got married and gave the whole thing up.

Presenter8:41

Yes, you see, in the East End everybody felt that if you weren't engaged or courting heavily there was something wrong with you.

Presenter8:47

So I dutifully did what all the other girls were doing. I met a nice boy, and we got engaged. But it was just about at the point where I realized that life seemed to have a lot more to offer, and if I did get married, possibly those opportunities would disappear forever. So

Presenter9:04

As the wedding got closer, my panic increased until eventually I realized that if I was going to give it a go, it had to be now.

Presenter9:11

And now he runs a pub in the East End.

Presenter9:15

How ironic. So I would have been working in a pub had I stayed with

Presenter9:21

Your third record. My third record had to be a McCartney, a Lennon McCartney number, the Beatles.

Speaker 19:22

My

Presenter9:26

Because when I was young I remember going to the East Ham Granada and listening to the Beatles and screaming myself hoarse along with everybody else, so that I didn't really hear a lot of the concert, because most of it was drowned out and girls were fainting and being carried out on stretchers. But the Beatles were very hot when I was at school and this was one of my favourites, Please Please Me.

Anita Dobson9:52

These were to my girl

Anita Dobson9:58

Never even try girl

Anita Dobson10:05

Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, please, please, we won't get like that please do.

Presenter10:16

The Lennon and McCartney number Please Please Me, sung by Who else but the Beatles. So, Anita, you decided to break out of the East End mould. Um but it was a long, hard slog, wasn't it?

Speaker 110:24

Um

Presenter10:28

Yes, it was, because, um once I decided I sort of gritted my teeth and there was no way I was going to do anything else. I just stuck with it. So all the times when I was sort of trailing around the reps and freezing to death in tiny little changing rooms and

Presenter10:43

going out to audiences of perhaps five people.

Presenter10:47

Um

Presenter10:48

I used to say to myself, It's all experience, it's all experience, you'll need this. One day you'll look back and be grateful that you had the chance to do this. And what sort of things did you do then? I did a bit of everything. I did lots of Shakespeare, Jacobean tragedies, Pinter, uh musicals, pantomime, a bit of all sorts, really lots of sort of uh fringe stuff, new plays, improvisation. I was very lucky really because I started off at the Citizens' Theatre in Glasgow and did about

Presenter11:18

two seasons, two and a half seasons, which was a good solid background and was almost like going back to drama school because uh I played parts I was much too young for. But in a way I think Angie got a lot of her weight and emotional sort of depth

Presenter11:32

from those early days because I had a chance to sort of

Presenter11:35

plunge my own sort of depths of emotion to find out how far I could go, and also to harness it, because you couldn't really dissolve into tears.

Presenter11:43

completely, otherwise you'd be wrecked for the next scene. So I had to learn how to sort of do it and pull myself together very quickly. And so by the time I was doing Angie I could sort of dissolve and then the next minute I'd be laughing and joking again. Were they real in those tears?

Speaker 111:55

Were they

Presenter11:58

Oh yes, all of them. I never used glycerin, I'm very proud to say. Never. We've leapt off there because I I do want to know, I think you ought to tell us how you got the part in the first place, after this long slog in red, as you say. I mean it was about three and a half years ago, wasn't it, that East Enders was born, the BBC invented its soap. That's right. How did you come to be chosen? I'd just come back off a tour with the Oxford Playhouse Company, doing Caucasian Chalk Circle by Bertolt Brecht and Mistress Quickly in Henry the Fourth.

Presenter12:27

So I felt that I'd come to a sort of crisis point, that um I had to face up to the fact that I'd got to that sort of age in my thirties, that I may not crack it and become well known as an actress, perhaps I was just going to be a jobbing actress, and that if that was going to be the case, I should face up to that fact and either get on with it, or if I wanted to do anything else and stop, now is the time to do it.

Presenter12:51

So I came home, talked to mum and dad, and said I'm going to take some time out and just see.

Presenter12:57

how I feel. And of course the next job that was offered to me I just jumped at, so I knew I'd have to be a jobbing actress or any kind of actress. And as luck would have it, I held off accepting it because um somebody said to me they want to see people for this new television series they're doing.

Presenter13:13

The whole company had been cast, all the characters were cast. But at the last minute, for some reason, the actress that was playing Angie was asked

Presenter13:23

to terminate her contract. So there they were, the week before they were due to start filming, with no Angie, which was quite a sort of principal character. So Julia Smith, who used to teach me, strangely enough, television technique at drama school, said, Right, I want to see these four actresses, or these six, however many it was, I want to see them all on a Wednesday, and I will decide by the end of that day who's to play Angie what.

Presenter13:45

So she saw me at half past ten in the morning.

Presenter13:48

and said we didn't see you originally because we thought you looked too young. But we're seeing you now. Will you read for it? So I read for it. She gave me a pile of scripts, said Go away. Have a think about whether you want to do eighteen months' solid work, because that's what it could be.

Presenter14:02

And we'll talk to you later, and by half past four that afternoon.

Presenter14:06

I was cast as Angie Watts. Shall we pause for another record? Yes, my next one is a favourite of mine. It's Frida Payne singing Band of Gold, and they used to play it in the pub where I used to work in the East End, in between term times at drama school.

Anita Dobson14:23

All that left is a band of gold.

Anita Dobson14:28

All that's left of a dream that holds is a band of gold and the memory of what love could be.

Anita Dobson14:39

If you want

Anita Dobson14:41

Here with me, resulting me from the shelter of a lover I had never known.

Presenter14:50

Frida Payne singing Band of Gold. Um your heart's still very much in the East End, isn't it, Anita? I mean you still live there? Yes, I do. The whole family still live there.

Speaker 114:56

Live

Presenter15:00

All my aunts and uncles and my grandma, mum and dad, me. You live on top of your mum and dad? I do, yes. I bought myself a sort of little masonette in whopping and when mum and dad said that they'd like to sort of move closer, I bought them the one on the floor below. So we see each other every day.

Speaker 115:17

Does that mean

Presenter15:20

We sort of look after each other, I suppose. I look after them in the sense that I'm able to give them some kind of financial security in their retirement, which is wonderful.

Presenter15:29

But emotionally they're still mum's still there for me. I still go down and say, I've had a terrible day, or this has happened, or what do you think about this? So are you going to be any good on the island fending for yourself, or does your mum still cook all your dinners?

Presenter15:43

Well, I'm quite a good cook, actually. I do like cooking, so I think I'd probably be all right from that point of view. But um I would miss going home for Sunday dinner with mum and dad, which is a great treat.

Presenter15:54

Being famous, of course, means inevitably that there's a price to pay, and uh I think we've seen you pay yours quite publicly on occasions because people have kissed and told. That that must be awful, really, to have your private relationships so written about and sold. It's a great shock, too, because I can remember before EastEnders picking up newspapers and reading about other people being exposed. And I'm sure that

Presenter16:18

people now that read about me, you never understand what it feels like until it happens to you. And for me and for my mother and father, it was a huge shock to suddenly pick up the paper and find that people were talking

Presenter16:32

quite intimately about things they either believed to be true or

Presenter16:38

thought were true about you.

Presenter16:41

It was very strange. Also, people that perhaps you'd had a very wonderful relationship with suddenly then talking about you. Or people that you didn't have a relationship with at all, talking about you most intimately. That was even more of a shock because you'd miss that one. But you're always vulnerable, aren't you, in a sense to that kind of story and gossip about your private life, as long as you are unmarried. I realise that now, looking back, that of course I was, I suppose, prime meat in a way, because I was sort of playing a glamorous part and I was unattached and hitherto unknown. So.

Presenter17:17

Really, it was a blank page, on which anything could be written, and indeed anything and everything was. It does seem a bit unfair, really, doesn't it? I suppose so, but in a way

Anita Dobson17:23

Zoom a bit.

Anita Dobson17:24

Because no

Presenter17:27

Thankfully, if you do have a sense of humour and very good and close family and friends, people that know you well know those things aren't true and know the things that are true, and you can eventually look back and laugh about them. Your fifth record, please. My fifth record. I had to do something from Phil Spector because that sound was so wonderful. I mean, everybody must have sort of

Presenter17:49

I've been open-mouthed when all those records came up, the chiffons and the crystals and everybody. But my all-time favourite was The Rawnett's Be My Baby.

Anita Dobson17:58

We met I

Anita Dobson18:01

Needed you so

Anita Dobson18:04

And if I had the chin on

Anita Dobson18:08

Never let you go.

Anita Dobson18:11

So won't you say you love me?

Anita Dobson18:15

I'll make you so proud of

Anita Dobson18:19

Make them turn their heads.

Anita Dobson18:22

Every place we go

Presenter18:31

Be My Baby, sung by The Ronnetts from Phil Spector's Greatest Hits. There's going to be a lot of bopping on this island, I can see. Yes, it's a giveaway, isn't it? All the Revive Forty Fives.

Speaker 118:37

Uh

Presenter18:41

Now, EastEnders is is made at L Stree Studios, of course, on a huge set. So, to that extent, I mean, Walford.

Speaker 118:46

Said

Presenter18:48

East Twenty does exist, doesn't it? It's a sort of conglomeration of all bits of the East End. Lots of people wrote to me and said, Oh, we know the pub that, you know, that you work in. We've seen the Vic. But of course nobody had because it was concocted specifically for the back lot at Elstree. But it must have been marvellous in the beginning, when when you and Den and Lofty and Shell and everybody

Presenter19:11

Realize that you had this huge hit on your hands, eighteen million people a week or something.

Presenter19:16

For me it sort of I I remember the launch, the first episode going out, and I remember sitting watching it and thinking

Presenter19:24

Ooh.

Presenter19:25

A sudden moment of thinking this this could be something rather special.

Presenter19:29

But it wasn't until

Presenter19:31

all the press hype and um

Presenter19:34

The sudden attention from the media and from the public really hit me, that I suddenly realized that not only was the programme a big hit, but I had become a sort of large contributor to that. But for all of us I think, as like Michelle's Pregnancy, when that was written about, it was front page news. It was extraordinary that a soap could

Presenter19:54

command that kind of attention. Why do you think it does?

Presenter19:58

I think it was a kind of uh forerunner of um

Presenter20:02

of a lot of the sort of programmes that you see now on television. It was very a lot of the programmes you see on T V are very fast, like Miami Vice and all those kind of things, very hard hitting, and uh lots of very quick, sharp scenes. And I think EastEnders was the first soap to do that.

Presenter20:18

The programme fairly ate you up. I mean, it took you six days a week, didn't it, of of hard work. And in the end it was said that that you yourself, not just Angie, you, Anita, arrived on on the brink of nervous collapse.

Presenter20:32

I suppose I felt in the third year.

Presenter20:36

that it sort of became you had the first year where the thing took off, the second year all the awards and and accolades. And in the third year I became very aware that I was settling into just the sort of um every day routine of of working, of just

Presenter20:52

churning it out for want of a better word. I also got a little bit ill. I got a sort of eye infection which became a nightmare, and you suddenly realized that there was no space to be ill, because you couldn't have time off. It just wasn't allowed.

Presenter21:07

and I began to panic slightly, and I became aware that if I did allow the panic to take hold, that I could head for a nervous breakdown. So I had to s I went to mum, of course, you know.

Presenter21:17

and a couple of really close friends and they said, if you've got an eye infection, you've got an eye infection. Don't make it worse by becoming so stressful yourself that you won't get better. And so gradually I just thought, fine, then I'll just deal with it from day to day. And gradually things sort of slotted back into perspective. It wasn't the main reason I left. I suppose I felt

Presenter21:40

that if the time had come to want to play other characters, that I had to leave sooner rather than later, and leave it open perhaps to go back another time.

Presenter21:49

Another record. Right, my next record had to be a Queen record because as you know I'm a great sort of mascot to the band and I've also worked with Brian May and uh the one that for me and for lots of people I'm sure was the biggest and most important record had to be Bohemian Rhapsody.

Anita Dobson22:07

Come easy come, easy go, little ha!

Anita Dobson22:17

Go!

Anita Dobson22:17

Doesn't really matter

Anita Dobson22:31

Bye-bye.

Anita Dobson22:34

Just killed a man.

Anita Dobson22:37

Put a gun against his head.

Anita Dobson22:40

Pulled my trigger, now he's dead.

Anita Dobson22:44

Bye-bye.

Anita Dobson22:47

Life had just begun.

Anita Dobson22:51

No

Presenter23:05

Bohemian Rhapsody from Queen. That was at number one for Yonks, wasn't it? Nine weeks, I believe. It was extraordinary, isn't it? It's very good.

Presenter23:13

Now, as we all know, you you've you've left EastEnders and um you're going back into the theatre to star with Adam Faith in a musical version of Budgie.

Presenter23:23

Is it a terrifying thought to think of treading the boards again? Yes.

Presenter23:27

It is. Adam and I have both talked about it, and we've both agreed that on the first night we will be unspeakably terrified. I mean, panic, complete and utter panic. It's a musical, so you've got to sing and dance as well? Yes.

Speaker 123:40

Uh

Presenter23:41

Thankfully, I did a lot of that in my early career. I did about six years of musicals, so I'm sort of used to that kind of format. But I suppose we both feel we have a great responsibility now, that you've sort of set a standard for yourself which you mustn't fall below. At the very least, hopefully you rise above it.

Presenter23:58

I needed to be scared again. That's in a way why I sort of left to move on. I needed to be.

Presenter24:04

Put on the line and at risk, and indeed I am.

Presenter24:07

Where do you see yourself in in five years' time? I mean, do you see yourself at the National, or on Broadway, or cutting a record in Abbey Road?

Presenter24:16

I would love to go to Broadway.

Presenter24:19

I'd also love to do a movie. It's the only thing I've never tried, the only form of

Presenter24:23

The media that I've noticed. What sort of part? How do you see yourself? I'd do anything. I'd do a nice little cameo, you know, sort of little bubbly thing that I could come on and do. That would be lovely.

Speaker 124:24

What sort of

Presenter24:33

Another record in the chat. Well, I did a tour in Italy for three months of the Rocky Horror Show, and for the whole time the record that was played in every single disco, and indeed was the record of the tour, was Michael Jackson's thriller.

Anita Dobson24:47

Late night, something evil's lurking in the door.

Anita Dobson24:56

You see a step that almost stopped your heart. You try to scream, but dare I take the sound before you make it.

Anita Dobson25:09

You start to freeze And someone looks you right between the eyes You're very nice

Presenter25:19

Michael Jackson's thriller. Anita, you said uh somewhere recently that you now have to learn to like yourself without the make-up.

Presenter25:28

What does that mean?

Presenter25:30

Well

Presenter25:31

When I was younger, I suppose I hid behind it. Everybody's shy, or at least I was at some point in their life, I suppose. And for me, I used to put on all the mascara and all the make up and do the hair and the jewellery and the clothes, and then go out and feel that I was part and parcel of what was happening in the world. That I conformed, if you like. I was a mod or I could go to the Palais or or the Totten Royal and and be with the girls dancing round the handbags, looking the part. With Angie, of course, suddenly they they offered me the possibility of showing a woman.

Presenter26:03

behind that frontage, behind that facade that she presents to the world, and when she wakes up first thing in the morning and doesn't look her best, when the hair's all over the place, and there's bits of last night's mascara and and no make up on the skin.

Presenter26:16

And for me I found that I loved it. I loved being able to to explore that in the same way that I loved exploring the character. I loved exploring that side of a woman, that the bit that sort of just got the old dressing gown on, and and actually can look quite cuddly at certain moments, but but also is hiding nothing.

Presenter26:36

And because of that, if I go out into the street and I'm wearing the the makeup, of course people recognize me. But also if I pop to the corner shop with no makeup on, they still recognize me.

Presenter26:46

And I quite like that. I think it makes me feel uh more third-dimensional, more rounded off as a person, that I don't have to present anything if I don't want to. Me is me. So in that sense, Angie's helped you come find yourself, come to terms with yourself? Well I suppose, yes. I mean, yes, I suppose she has in a way. I've sort of I suppose I've been growing up along the way. And really a lot of things came together in those three years of playing Angie. A lot of the experimenting uh in my work that I'd done and a lot of the sort of groping to find yourself.

Presenter27:19

In in the l that lady's

Presenter27:22

Drive to sort of try and get herself together too. A lot of me sort of

Presenter27:27

became much more coherent because it had to be in order to let it go again to play Angie. So that makes sense. I had to sort of gel as a person in order to let go and not gel as Angie Watts. It couldn't be two people not together. It had to be a together actress playing a not together individual. So I found myself feeling much stronger. I mean the suicide I was very together. I could was cracking jokes and laughing about with the crew and everything because I felt very strong. But Angie at that point was completely disintegrating. So it was a very interesting experience from both sides.

Speaker 127:33

And

Presenter28:00

Do you feel that um you've deserved everything you've got, or do you feel incredibly lucky?

Presenter28:06

I suppose a bit of both.

Presenter28:08

I feel that I haven't cheated. I spent sixteen years.

Presenter28:12

earning my wings, if you like. But I do also feel incredibly lucky and privileged, because

Presenter28:19

I am in a privileged position now. The public have given me

Presenter28:23

a certain status which is

Presenter28:26

Beyond people's wildest dreams. I mean, to a lot of people and to the little girl I once was, it's sort of the life of Cinderella, really, of Eliza Doolittle, the girl who had not very much when she started, and now seemingly has the world at her feet. So I do feel incredibly lucky. And and does that, um, Cinderella, to break the metaphor, coming from such a a nice, cosy and very happy family, long for a family of her own?

Presenter28:52

I love children, I do. And I always felt that the family would happen when the man, the right man, happened and the right moment happened. And I never believed in getting married and doing all of those things just because it was the right time. I still believed in waiting for mister Wright, if you like. I'm a sort of terrible romantic.

Presenter29:10

It didn't sort of happen. I and also I was too pulled by my career to take time out to look for him. I wanted to to do other things. And I wouldn't change anything because it seems as though everything's pointing the right direction now.

Presenter29:23

And I'm I feel quite lucky in all areas now.

Presenter29:27

Your last record, please. My last record, I had to play this one because Adam Faith, I feel, is a a lovely man and a very lovely actor. And I'm so sort of excited about working with him soon. I wanted to play one of his records and I love his voice. So I wanted What Do You Want? because that was I think the best one he made.

Speaker 229:46

What do you want if you don't want money? What do you want if you don't want gold? Say what you want, and I'll give it your double and Wish you wanted my love, baby.

Speaker 230:00

What do you want if you don't want honey? What do you want if you don't want house? Say what you want and I'll give it you, darling. Wish you want in my love, baby. Well, I'm offering you this.

Speaker 230:16

Adam Faith then

Presenter30:16

Adam Faith. What do you want? It's great, isn't it? It's very good. Now, Nita, you've got to choose one of the those records that you would wish to keep on the island above all others.

Presenter30:28

Well, in a way, there's no contest really, because I've loved it for so long. I suppose on a on an island I would love it just as much, so I'd still be bopping around to Little Eva singing the locomotion.

Presenter30:40

Along with the birds in the trees and the fish. And a book. And I think you know that we give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. What book would you choose? Well, I would choose the complete works of Oscar Wilde because.

Presenter30:53

I love his short stories as well as his plays. So it's an awful lot. I'm not really allowed to give you complete works. Are you not? No, you ought to choose one, really. To be very strict.

Speaker 130:56

So it's all for

Speaker 130:59

Are you not?

Presenter31:03

I'm also loath to be strict with you, but I ought to be.

Speaker 131:05

But I ought to be.

Presenter31:06

Um, well

Presenter31:09

It would either be The Picture of Dorian Gray or The Lord of the Rings by J.R. by Tolkien, because um that I could read again and again and again.

Presenter31:18

You're gonna change your mind, then? Yes, it had to be just one. Yes.

Presenter31:22

Lord of the Rings, I think. Right, you can have the Lord of the Rings and a luxury.

Speaker 131:23

Right.

Presenter31:26

A luxury. Well, I can't have a telephone, can I? Certainly not.

Speaker 131:28

Because that is not.

Presenter31:29

So I discussed this, the luxury item, at great length with my family, and it was my sister really who actually gave me the idea and we both talked about it and I think she was right in the end. A bed.

Presenter31:42

Why not? Entirely sensible. You just have to promise that you won't sleep underneath it because then it would be a shelter. It would, wouldn't it? No. Well, you could have no mattress so that that it's holes all over it so I could just lay on top of that. But she said it's very important to have the frame for your back and for the sense of sort of home and security. So I would make my own mattress. But I you could have a very low one so I couldn't get under it. All right, you shall have it. And um I shall say thank you very much indeed, Anita Dobson, for letting us hear you at Desert Island Discs.

Speaker 132:05

Uh

Speaker 132:08

Uh

Speaker 132:09

Thank you.

Speaker 132:17

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.