Reverend Ian Paisley

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty eight, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is a politician and a turbulent priest. His combination of religious fervour and political passion has won him one of the most sizable majorities at Westminster and the largest vote of any politician in the European Parliament.

Presenter0:47

For twenty years he has personified Ulster Protestantism at its loudest and most determined. He's been called the Demon Doctor, the Mad Muller, but those who know him say he is a man of considerable compassion and humour. They know him fondly as the big man. He is the Reverend Ian Paisley.

Presenter1:07

Mr. Paisley, I've been told that if you're in a a collar and tie, I can relax. If you're wearing your clerical collar, I should beware. I see I can relax this morning.

Reverend Ian Paisley1:16

Well, I don't think that that's true at all. I think I'm the same person no matter what garb I wear.

Presenter1:22

You you wouldn't admit to there being two sides to your personality,'cause that's what people say, that you can be humorous and charming, but you you on the other hand can be really quite threatening.

Reverend Ian Paisley1:32

No, I think that uh a person is the same person, but of course when they're dealing with uh the sobering aspects of the life that my constituents are going through, being bombed and murdered and killed and put under pressure day and daily, uh there must be a very sober side and there must be a very stern and strong side.

Presenter1:54

Well, there's nobody on this desert island for you to speak to, there's nobody to argue with, there's nobody to love. I mean, will you hate it for that, being castaway?

Reverend Ian Paisley2:03

Well, I developed my uh voice uh by addressing the stones and trees of the Morne Mountains. So I suppose I could address the birds and the fish and the stars and the waves. Uh I I I think I would continue to speak.

Presenter2:22

Let's hear your first record.

Reverend Ian Paisley2:24

Well, my first record is a twenty third Sam.

Reverend Ian Paisley2:28

I was a child, my mother told me.

Reverend Ian Paisley2:30

who made the day into night and the night into day.

Reverend Ian Paisley2:34

Um the only uh song

Reverend Ian Paisley2:38

would put me over to sleep.

Reverend Ian Paisley2:39

uh was the singing of the twenty third psalm.

Reverend Ian Paisley2:43

I hope it doesn't put you to sleep.

Speaker 32:54

Him.

Speaker 33:01

In piles to three

Presenter3:20

The twenty third psalm sung by the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland, the only music that would calm Ian Paisley as a baby. So you were you were awkward even then, were you?

Reverend Ian Paisley3:30

I was awkward even then. Yes.

Presenter3:32

What sort of upbringing did you have?

Reverend Ian Paisley3:34

Well, I was brought up in a manse. It was a very strict upbringing, um, uh, very strong on uh behaviour and ethics.

Reverend Ian Paisley3:44

And rightly so. And I look back with

Reverend Ian Paisley3:49

Great thanksgiving to my upbringing.

Presenter3:52

Who had the greater influence on you, your mother or your father?

Reverend Ian Paisley3:56

I would say equally both. My mother was a a covenanter from Scotland and my father at that time was a Baptist preacher. And both of them had a very big influence on me. My father especially he was my hero and always will be my hero.

Presenter4:16

So you were you were very properly brought up, you were very pious, you were very well behaved. Did you ever go?

Reverend Ian Paisley4:22

No, I wasn't biased nor I wasn't well behaved either either. I was just an ordinary boy and uh uh sometimes uh pulled against.

Presenter4:23

Meanwhile

Reverend Ian Paisley4:31

Uh uh the rigours that were imposed upon me. And uh and uh in fact uh made up my mind that if I ever had children I would make a few changes and I think I made those changes when I brought up my own family. What sort of changes? Well I think that uh there must be uh a willingness to allow a person to develop their own way.

Reverend Ian Paisley4:53

And in the old way of Christian upbringing, I think perhaps too much pressure was put on children in the home to conform.

Presenter5:02

But you still run, as I understand it, quite a a a um a tight ship. I mean, there's no smoking, no drinking, no swearing, um, good behaviour in your household. Oh, hello.

Reverend Ian Paisley5:12

I mean no

Presenter5:12

Yeah.

Reverend Ian Paisley5:12

Those are the common decencies I think that should be in every home.

Reverend Ian Paisley5:16

But with all the rigors of a strict upbringing, I look back on those days as very, very happy days. And both my father and mother did a very good job on me.

Presenter5:31

Did you feel, if you're honest, even then, when you were really quite young, that there was something special about you?

Reverend Ian Paisley5:38

No, I never felt there was anything special about me. I don't feel there's anything special about me even today. I think I'm just an ordinary individual who has a job of work to do and is doing it to the best of his ability.

Presenter5:51

But it's been said that Jesus Christ came to you when you were six years old.

Reverend Ian Paisley5:56

Yes, I had I was converted to Christ when I was six years of age. That is absolutely true. And of course, conversion is the greatest possible experience in any human being's life. I listened to my mother speaking on a text in John 10, I am the good shepherd, the good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep. And that day that text made a tremendous impression upon me. And I simply, as a child, received Christ as he says we should receive him as my Lord and Saviour.

Reverend Ian Paisley6:30

I have been a total and absolute failure as far as I am concerned, but he has been an absolute success for me.

Presenter6:38

Let's have your second record.

Reverend Ian Paisley6:39

Well, my second record is sung by William McEwan, who was a great gospel singer, and that he was the first gospel singer I ever heard recorded. And strange to relate, I was able to discover one of these very old records with a very appropriate piece pulled for the shore. So I thought that being on the desert island, somebody must have pulled me ashore. So I thought this would be appropriate. And it has, of course, a spiritual message as well.

Speaker 37:10

Right in the darkness sailor, a day is at hand. See o'er the foaming billows, Rarehavens land. Three was the voyage sailor, now almost all. Save within the lifeboat sailor, pull for the shore.

Speaker 37:34

Hold for the shore, sailor, hole for the shore. Heed not the rolling waves, but bend to the oar.

Speaker 37:47

In the lifeboat sailor, claim to self no more. Leave the poor old stranded wreck and fall for

Presenter7:58

Pull for the shore, sung by William McEwan. Are you going to try and pull away from the shore, Mr. Paisley? I mean, will you try and escape from the island?

Reverend Ian Paisley8:07

Well, I would have some things that I want to do on this island.

Reverend Ian Paisley8:11

And then I might uh uh make preparations to escape.

Presenter8:15

Are you are you a practical man, then? Could you lash a few palm trees together and

Reverend Ian Paisley8:19

Oh, yes, I have uh quite an experience in joinery and woodwork, and uh I think I could uh make a raft.

Reverend Ian Paisley8:29

I think also I could get a seal somewhere. I think that I could commit myself to the deep.

Reverend Ian Paisley8:35

In quiet confidence.

Reverend Ian Paisley8:38

And being a Calvinist, knowing that all things work together for good, I might arrive somewhere.

Presenter8:46

When was the moment that you knew it was your destiny, if you like, to preach?

Reverend Ian Paisley8:51

Well, that was when I was fifteen.

Reverend Ian Paisley8:54

and uh I was uh in the Count of Tyrone.

Reverend Ian Paisley8:58

uh with a friend of mine who was a farmer, and uh I was uh using a harrow with two horses, and uh that day

Reverend Ian Paisley9:08

I had a conscious experience.

Reverend Ian Paisley9:11

Of God?

Reverend Ian Paisley9:12

calling me to be a preacher of the gospel.

Reverend Ian Paisley9:16

I didn't see angels, I didn't see anything, but it's uh an experience of the heart uh where I felt.

Reverend Ian Paisley9:24

that uh this was the way that I had to go.

Presenter9:28

You believe, I know, and it it comes to everything that you say, that that that you have been chosen, that you perform God's will.

Presenter9:37

That's a belief which presumably then guards you against so many ills, including fear of death at the hands of the IRA.

Reverend Ian Paisley9:46

Yes, uh uh could I just say I believe that everyone uh can experience the choice of God.

Reverend Ian Paisley9:54

and everyone should uh the choice of God.

Reverend Ian Paisley9:58

Is the choice that Christ emphasized when he said, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and that is grace. I don't have any fear of death because the scriptures tell us that those that know Christ have been delivered from that fear. I walked with death for many, many years and will continue to walk with it until one day death, the king of terrors and the terror of kings, and the last great enemy, will conquer me if the advent of Christ doesn't intervene between that date and this.

Presenter10:31

And do you do you believe that you'll suffer a violent death?

Reverend Ian Paisley10:35

No, I don't think so. I have never given it consideration. I mean, I don't get up in the morning and say, Is this the day the Ari are going to shoot me? I live a normal life.

Presenter10:45

Let's pause there and let me ask you for your third record.

Reverend Ian Paisley10:48

Well, my third record is uh a hymn sung by my own congregation, which of course is my first love. I've been on the Raven Hill Road now for forty two years.

Reverend Ian Paisley11:00

It's a gospel hymn, an evangelistic hymn. Would you be free from your burden of sin? There's power in the blood.

Presenter11:56

Would You Be Free? sung by the congregation of Doctor Paisley's own church, the Martyrs' Memorial Free Presbyterian Church, in Belfast.

Presenter12:05

Now, Ian Paisley, you you met your wife Eileen when um she was seventeen and you were twenty-four. She says it was love at first sight. Is that how you remember it?

Reverend Ian Paisley12:13

Yeah.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:15

I think that that is absolutely right.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:18

And uh we had a wonderful courtship.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:21

And we're still having a wonderful courtship after many years of married life. She's my right hand.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:28

Uh

Presenter12:28

You call her the boss, eh?

Reverend Ian Paisley12:29

I call her the boss, and I always say the neck turns the head.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:33

Yeah.

Presenter12:34

What does she call you?

Reverend Ian Paisley12:35

She calls me many things I wouldn't like to repeat in this program.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:40

Or you're or some people might think she was too Christian.

Presenter12:43

A lot of bunches of flowers, I gather, wing their way from all the various points of Europe in which you are back home to Belfast.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:50

Oh, yes, I always

Reverend Ian Paisley12:52

think that the woman at home uh needs to have all the encouragement and all the love and help.

Reverend Ian Paisley12:59

That you ought to have. I'm glad I wasn't born a woman.

Presenter13:04

Why would you hate to be a woman?

Reverend Ian Paisley13:06

Well, I don't like a woman's tasks in the home. I mean, I when w the children were young and my wife wasn't well, I had to do the chores. Um I uh I don't take to cooking.

Presenter13:17

So you don't help around the house?

Reverend Ian Paisley13:19

Uh not now. Uh I I did uh help around the house and uh of course at some times in holiday time I would help around the house. But uh I have three daughters and I think that uh they are their mother's right hand.

Presenter13:34

Now which one of your children and you have five, three daughters and and twin boys which one of them, or how many of them, uh are destined to to to pick up the Paisley banner and carry it forward when when we have cast you away?

Reverend Ian Paisley13:47

Well, I I don't know. I I would say that my family largely have the same uh basic convictions that I have, and certainly the same Christian conviction, but they're all individuals. I think that they all have a very strong independent streak in them, and they they do their own thing and they do th their own way.

Presenter14:06

What of course you have brought on that family that you love so much i is a life covered at every turn by security, police protection, bulletproof glass in the house and

Reverend Ian Paisley14:13

Yeah.

Speaker 314:13

Yes.

Presenter14:18

rocket screens for garden fences and and Paisley for a name, of course.

Speaker 314:21

Oh yeah.

Presenter14:22

Do you do you ever, for their sakes, if not for your own, wish that you had had never begun to march along this treacherous ulster path?

Reverend Ian Paisley14:33

No, I never have any regrets that I have gone the road I've gone because I'm conscious that it was a preordained path as far as I was concerned. We all have regrets in life, some things we have done differently, but I have no major regrets because I believe I've gone the way that God would have me go. No, I think that they have uh coped very well with the naim uh and uh they uh they have made their own way in the world and will make their own way in the world.

Presenter15:04

So they're not a family who live in fear and a small amount of resentment.

Reverend Ian Paisley15:08

Oh, no. I am the chum of all my family. And I have their confidence and they come to me on all occasions. And matters that concern them they would discuss openly with me and with Eining as well. I mean, we are a very close-knit family. And

Reverend Ian Paisley15:29

We have the best of times on our holidays. We always spend our holiday together and then we let dye our hair and enjoy ourselves. What do you do?

Reverend Ian Paisley15:39

Everything that they say I have to do. I don't have any uh the only thing I do I usually write an odd book on my holiday and uh uh at night I would spend a little time on my own doing some researching. But uh they they say this is what you're doing today, that this is the way you're going to go and if I protest, you're doing what we say today. So

Presenter16:00

Let me ask you for another record.

Reverend Ian Paisley16:03

Well, the next record is the Lumhonderry Air, sung by Robert White, O'Damni Boy, and of course all Ulster people, no matter what their beliefs may be, really their hearts warm to this particular song.

Speaker 316:19

Oh, Daniel the pipes, the pipes are cawing.

Reverend Ian Paisley16:20

Uh

Reverend Ian Paisley16:23

I

Speaker 316:30

From Glen to Glen and down the mountain side

Speaker 316:40

The summer's gone, And all of the robes is falling.

Speaker 316:51

Tis you, tis you.

Speaker 316:56

Must go and I must

Presenter17:02

O Danny Boy, the London Derry Air, sung by Robert White. It is lovely, isn't it?

Reverend Ian Paisley17:06

It is indeed.

Presenter17:08

In Baisley, you started to gain notoriety in in the sixties. The the ecumenical movement was growing in influence and and that was something which you staunchly opposed. And it was in nineteen sixty-three when the Pope, Pope John, died, that you told a mass meeting, This Romish man of sin is now in hell.

Presenter17:29

Did you mean that?

Reverend Ian Paisley17:30

Well, I don't know whether you got the quote right, but uh I'm sure the the the uh sentiment was right. I don't know whether I expressed it in those words or not. I hear myself quoted on many occasions in words that uh may try to get the sense. What I did say was that the uh reform position

Reverend Ian Paisley17:51

That has always been the position of the Reformed churches and is the position of the Westminster Confession of Faith, which every Presbyterian minister, whether it be Irish Presbyterian, Reformed Presbyterian, or Free Presbyterian, or Evangelical Presbyterian, sign in their ordination, states clearly that the Pope is that Antichrist, that man of sin, that son of perdition in the Church. Now, ante means instead of Christ.

Reverend Ian Paisley18:21

and uh the Church of Rome itself claim.

Reverend Ian Paisley18:24

That the Pope takes the place of Christ. He's the vicar or the substitute for Christ on earth. The priest in the confessional box claims that he takes the place of Christ and can forgive sins. It takes the place of Christ at the altar in the Mass ceremony and in the sacrifice. And this has always been the position of the Protestant Church. There's nothing new about this. And because a person today repeats the strong teaching of Protestantism, one is more or less polarized and say that's an awful thing to say. But that is Protestantism. And for that I make no apology.

Presenter19:05

But I well, I what I think it is, is it it worries people, the ferocious terms in which you state it, the sometimes savage terms in which you state it. And I think that people would want to say to you, can't it be done more gently than that?

Reverend Ian Paisley19:20

Well, uh I don't think the Inquisition was gentle.

Reverend Ian Paisley19:24

I don't think the history of Rome was gentle. So I think that one must speak uh openly. I mean, I speak openly in these things. I don't hide myself.

Presenter19:35

But by the way,

Reverend Ian Paisley19:35

And I think that it is important that we have open debate on these things.

Presenter19:40

Indeed, but I think it's a good idea.

Reverend Ian Paisley19:40

I mean, I could give you statements what they've said about me that consign me to the lower regions. And that's their business. I'd have no objection to Roman Catholics speaking as harshly.

Reverend Ian Paisley19:52

or as dogmatically about his faith, but uh please let me uh speak uh strongly about my faith.

Presenter20:00

is what you're saying.

Presenter20:02

that God prefers Protestants.

Reverend Ian Paisley20:04

No, I am saying that all Protestants and all Roman Catholics and all Atheists and all of every other religion are sinners before God.

Reverend Ian Paisley20:15

And they've got to be saved by God's grace. There's no difference between any of us.

Reverend Ian Paisley20:21

And there's no doubt there are those within the Roman Catholic system that know the grace of God. The system of Romanism I utterly deplore and protest against. But individual Roman Catholics have the same standing with me as individual Protestants, both in my religious work.

Reverend Ian Paisley20:41

And uh in my political work, as all as they all testify,

Presenter20:46

I want to go on to ask you about how your religion moved into politics, but before we do, let me ask you for your fifth record.

Reverend Ian Paisley20:54

Well, the fifth record is from a flute, an accordion band in my constituency, a band my old constituency of Bandside, the first constituency, the Killy Cookin accordion band.

Reverend Ian Paisley21:04

Playing a piece bound for Taxes Land. It's a good Ulster flavour about it.

Presenter22:05

The Killicoogan accordion band playing Bound for Texas Land.

Presenter22:10

Well, now, mister Paisy, at what point in your life did did you come to believe that the role God wanted you to play was not only a religious one, but a political one as well?

Reverend Ian Paisley22:19

Well, when the uh the serious situation arose in Northern Ireland and the slide was taking place to anarchy.

Reverend Ian Paisley22:28

Uh I had prophesied.

Reverend Ian Paisley22:30

that this would come because I I saw on the horizon uh the dark clouds of lawlessness and I also saw the weakness of the Unionist Administration.

Reverend Ian Paisley22:42

not prepared to face up honestly to what was really happening, uh sweeping things as governments like to do under the carpet, and then leaving a terrible uh harvest, sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind, as the scriptures say. And I then was constrained by the call of the people of Northern Ireland to do what I set out to do.

Presenter23:06

Now you have, as I said at the beginning, one impressive majority as always which has has given you a deal of power.

Presenter23:14

And on occasions you have used that power to incite hatred, as we've been discussing.

Presenter23:21

Hatred which can lead to violence. Have you ever felt regret for actions which have stemmed from your words?

Reverend Ian Paisley23:28

Well, I have never incited anybody to hate. I mean, I I I would repudiate that absolutely.

Reverend Ian Paisley23:35

And uh uh perhaps you'd give me some example where I incited people to it. I've I've been brought on to the streets.

Reverend Ian Paisley23:42

By the British Authorities

Reverend Ian Paisley23:45

to try and keep trouble from going in the streets.

Reverend Ian Paisley23:48

I have been got out of my bare bed

Reverend Ian Paisley23:51

By Army Officers.

Reverend Ian Paisley23:53

who have said, Would you please come? Because if you don't come there will be trouble. Well, if I was an insider to hate, I think I would have laid on in my bed and I wouldn't have been there. So I mean I would totally and absolutely reject that uh uh and I think that that's

Presenter24:06

But it's certainly true, is it not, mister Paisley, that that that in the late sixties, for example, the Cameron Commission said that you had contributed to the prolonged troubles in Albany?

Reverend Ian Paisley24:16

The uh Cameron uh Commission.

Reverend Ian Paisley24:19

was a commission that didn't examine anybody under oath,

Reverend Ian Paisley24:23

I was in jail.

Reverend Ian Paisley24:25

when the Cameron P Commission sat. So they sat in judgment on a man who never was heard and who was in jail. Well, if you think that's fair play on British Justice, I don't. In fact, let us come to the Scarman Commission.

Reverend Ian Paisley24:38

which was a public sworn inquiry.

Reverend Ian Paisley24:41

And the Scarman Commission cleared me completely.

Reverend Ian Paisley24:45

of having any responsibility for the violence in the streets of Ulster. You can read it for yourself. And the Scarban Commission was a public sworn inquiry. I don't believe in back door government inquiries. I believe that if you're going to have an inquiry you should have them on oath and everybody should appear on oath and should be cross-examined. And I treat the s the Cameron Commission, so does the Ulster people and so now does government officials with the utmost contempt.

Presenter25:11

Isn't it possible that by being so strident, by being so, some would say, intransigent, that you alienate those who might otherwise give you sympathy and support?

Reverend Ian Paisley25:21

No, I don't think so. I think that the British people will learn in a hard school.

Reverend Ian Paisley25:26

And uh uh we're not depending upon the sympathy of the people over here. We have got to depend upon ourselves. We have been so uh uh uh

Reverend Ian Paisley25:38

The trade?

Reverend Ian Paisley25:39

We have been so uh treated with contempt,

Reverend Ian Paisley25:43

By successive British governments, the Ulster people know they have to stand on their own feet.

Presenter25:49

Let's pause there and let me ask you for your sixth record now.

Reverend Ian Paisley25:53

My sixth record is that very famous hymn by John Newton, Amazing Grace.

Reverend Ian Paisley25:58

It's sung by the Bob Jones University Concert Choir.

Reverend Ian Paisley26:01

And of course I have close connections with the Bob Jones University. They gave me the doctorate. They did, part of the Bible belt, it's known as the buckle on the Bible belt in fundamentalist uh the southern states of America. And of course Amazing Grace is a wonderful uh hymn.

Presenter26:05

They gave me a doctorate.

Speaker 326:19

Praise Increasing.

Presenter27:01

Amazing Grace sung by the Bob Jones University Concert Chorale.

Presenter27:06

You cope, Ian Paisley, with an extraordinary workload. You are, as we said, a member of both the Westminster and the European Parliaments, and you still manage to preach regularly.

Presenter27:15

But yes, I

Reverend Ian Paisley27:15

Yes, I preach uh in my own church twice each Sabbath and also I preach in one of our other churches in the afternoon.

Presenter27:24

And do you prepare those sermons, or do you m stand there and proclaim?

Reverend Ian Paisley27:29

Oh, no. Well, you have to prepare sermons. You can't preach to your congregation for forty two years and say the same things or you would be addressing Mr and Mrs. Wood and Timothy Timber, and rightly so.

Presenter27:41

So when do you do all that preparation?

Reverend Ian Paisley27:43

Well, I am driven from place to place.

Reverend Ian Paisley27:47

Six hours of sleep does me. And uh between the rest of the times travelling over here, travelling to Europe, I have plenty of time for study and research. And then of course I b burn the midnight oil and a Saturday night as well.

Presenter28:01

You also u undoubtedly ha have an eye for publicity. Does does it give you some pleasure, your your fame, your celebrity?

Reverend Ian Paisley28:09

I don't uh I've no glu I don't want I'm not a glutton for fame. I just do my thing and if it comes that way, well, that's it. I mean

Presenter28:17

But it certainly comes that way.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:18

Well, it certainly does, but I mean I don't t set out to.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:22

uh make myself famous. I don't uh I'm I I think that fame is a very uh

Reverend Ian Paisley28:29

It's a folly.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:30

Because uh Christ was very famous when he was doing his miracles.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:34

But the same cried

Reverend Ian Paisley28:36

that enjoyed the loaves and fishes, cried, Crucify him.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:40

And uh public applaud.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:42

It's something that is very fickle.

Presenter28:44

Another record, please.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:46

This record is by a coloured singer, Bertha Dorman, a very good personal friend of mine, Thy Way, O Lord.

Reverend Ian Paisley28:56

Uh when I was a boy, the Jubilee singers visited our country, and I was greatly impressed by their singing and by their fervor.

Reverend Ian Paisley29:06

And I think one of the greatest coloured singers in the world today is Bertha.

Speaker 329:11

Since the middle of the day,

Speaker 329:21

And a no dusty.

Speaker 329:32

Each day are simply blue

Speaker 329:45

I

Speaker 329:47

Mm-hmm.

Presenter30:00

Thy Way, O Lord sung by Bertha Norman.

Presenter30:04

Well, Mr Paisley, we are now about to cast you away on the desert island. You may never be rescued at which some would undoubtedly be delighted, and others would be devastated.

Presenter30:14

But eventually we would come to write your obituary. What would you most like to be remembered for? What have you achieved?

Reverend Ian Paisley30:24

Well, I would most like to be remembered for as a preacher of the gospel.

Reverend Ian Paisley30:29

and as a person who brought the truth of the gospel to many hearts.

Presenter30:33

And and will you, Reverend Paisley, when your moment comes and and you face the Lord, will you face him with a clear conscience?

Reverend Ian Paisley30:42

I will face him as a sinner.

Reverend Ian Paisley30:44

who deserved eternal hell and judgment.

Reverend Ian Paisley30:48

But I will face him not in any righteousness of my own, for my righteousnesses are as filthy rags, but in the imputed righteousness of his Son.

Reverend Ian Paisley30:57

Who lived for man, who died for man, who shed his blood for man.

Reverend Ian Paisley31:02

who at this moment is praying for man.

Reverend Ian Paisley31:04

and all that come to him he will in no wise cast out.

Presenter31:10

Let me ask you for your eighth and your final record, if you will.

Reverend Ian Paisley31:15

The eighth record is sung by my Parliamentary colleague and also my Ministerial colleague, who was once an assistant minister of mine, the Reverend William McCrae, the Member of Parliament for Mid Ulster.

Reverend Ian Paisley31:28

and uh the one of the leading, if not the leading, gospel singer in the United Kingdom. And uh it's a good arousing piece when the trumpet of the Lord shall sound in time.

Speaker 331:42

When the Road is called up yonter, When the Road

Speaker 331:50

Is called a beyond When the roll is called a beyond When the roll is called a beonder I'll be there.

Speaker 332:06

There's a whole lot of people going home By the signs of time it won't be very long

Speaker 332:19

In the twinkling of an eye we'll all be gone.

Speaker 332:25

There's a whole lot of people going

Presenter32:32

When the trumpets of the Lord shall sound sung by the Reverend William MacRae, MP

Presenter32:38

Now which of all those records you've chosen there, which one would you cherish above all others?

Reverend Ian Paisley32:44

Uh I think that

Reverend Ian Paisley32:47

Possibly the twenty-third Sam.

Presenter32:50

Now you have the Bible, and we also, as you know, give you the complete works of Shakespeare.

Presenter32:55

What other piece of literature of your thousands of books would you like to take?

Reverend Ian Paisley32:59

Well, I would like to take an authorized version of the Holy Scriptures, if I if that's permissible. And it would be I'd like to take what is known as the companion Bible, which has extensive notes. So perhaps you might be able to work that one for me.

Presenter33:13

I'm sure we can. So there's a lot of hard research going to go on.

Reverend Ian Paisley33:14

There's a lot of

Reverend Ian Paisley33:16

That's right, that's right. Uh I have thought carefully about what book I would like to take. Very difficult one. But uh John Bunyan was imprisoned for twelve years.

Reverend Ian Paisley33:28

and he read uh a very big work, uh The Acts and Monuments of John Fox, which is better known to

Reverend Ian Paisley33:39

the general public as Fox's Book of Martyrs.

Reverend Ian Paisley33:42

It's an eight volume set, and I think I would like to have that.

Reverend Ian Paisley33:47

because I have never had time to read it, and I'd like to take time to read it, and perhaps get some of the inspiration that Bunyan got when he wrote

Reverend Ian Paisley33:56

His Pilgrim's Progress.

Presenter33:58

A collected works, I think, pushes the rules a little, but as we're going to work so hard, you can have it.

Reverend Ian Paisley34:04

Thank her.

Presenter34:05

And finally your luxury.

Reverend Ian Paisley34:08

I said to my wife, Could I take you? You'd be my luxury. And she said, No, why not be there?

Reverend Ian Paisley34:15

So uh I I would like

Reverend Ian Paisley34:17

A high powered

Reverend Ian Paisley34:18

Uh radio.

Reverend Ian Paisley34:21

that I could uh uh find out what was happening and in my uh loneliness could set the world right and say what I would do in such circumstances.

Presenter34:32

You shall have it. Iain Richard, Kyle, Paisley, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 134:46

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.