Lord Armstrong

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty eight, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is a man of influence. A natural member of the British establishment, his discretion and integrity carried him through the ranks of the Whitehall Civil Service to become Cabinet Secretary.

Presenter0:42

In this position his critics might argue that he was the protector of a faceless bureaucracy. But to Mrs Thatcher he was a loyal lieutenant, steering her government through such crises as GCHQ, the Ponting Affair, Westland, and Spycatcher. On his retirement last year he was awarded a peerage. He is Lord Armstrong.

Presenter1:02

Lord Armstrong, you were at the Prime Minister's elbow throughout the Thatcher years until this one. You therefore really, in our minds, are rather akin to Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister. Would we be entirely wide of the mark in thinking that?

Lord Armstrong1:17

Well, I think if you're going to look for my parallel in that quarter, you have to look not at Sir Humphrey.

Lord Armstrong1:23

But at Sir Arnold.

Lord Armstrong1:25

Who was the cabinet secretary in the first series before it became Yes Prime Minister when it was still Yes Minister?

Lord Armstrong1:32

And who retired just at the time when it changed from yes minister to yes prime minister.

Lord Armstrong1:37

I

Lord Armstrong1:38

have good authority for that because the producer sent me a copy of the script which was had a manuscript dedication in it which said to Sir Arnold Robin crossed out Sir Robert Armstrong with good wishes from the producer so that if you're going to look for a parallel I think I have to say it's S Sir Arnold whether that's any better I'm not sure.

Presenter1:49

Uh

Presenter1:56

Let's turn to music because

Presenter1:58

I know that it's terribly important in your life, isn't it?

Lord Armstrong2:01

It's been it's a thread that's run right through my life and has been very important to me throughout. My father is a musician, um and I'm glad to say still is at the age of ninety, and his father before him was a professional musician. So I've had it around me

Lord Armstrong2:17

As long as I can remember anything and musical activity and enjoyment is like eating and drinking and sleeping in in my life, I should be bereft without it.

Presenter2:28

So how have you chosen these records?

Lord Armstrong2:31

I've chosen them partly because they represent pieces of music and composers who who have meant a lot to me as I listened and as I played or sang, and partly because each of them would take me back to particular

Lord Armstrong2:47

Moments or particular episodes in my life which I would like to think about when I was stuck out there on that island.

Lord Armstrong2:54

With nothing but the cigars to keep me company.

Presenter2:55

With nothing but

Presenter2:57

Can we hear then the first record?

Lord Armstrong2:59

A work that I've lived with really th throughout my life is Bach's Mass in B minor. The first piece of music of which I have a conscious memory is the second fugue in the well-tempered clavier by JS Bach. But I first heard the B minor Mass, I suppose, when I was eight or nine, and I have been listening to it and singing in it.

Lord Armstrong3:23

at regular intervals ever since.

Lord Armstrong3:26

And I would like to start with that. And I would like to start with the opening movement, the first Kyrie, where the tenors and I was a tenor in my day where the tenors come in and introduce the subject for the first time. It's a marvellous tune, which is a great long tune, which is like the beginning of

Lord Armstrong3:44

The beginning of time.

Presenter4:39

Part of Bach's B minor Mass, the Monteverdi Choir and the English Baroque Soloists conducted by John Elliott Gardner.

Presenter4:47

Do you still sing, Lord Armstrong?

Lord Armstrong4:49

I do, I still sing.

Lord Armstrong4:51

Not as often as I used to, but I still sing regularly with a group of friends with whom I've been singing for over forty years. The sound isn't quite what it was when we were young, but the music and the friendship are as

Lord Armstrong5:04

Warm and strong as ever.

Presenter5:05

Now you were brought up, uh, as you said, surrounded by music. Your father was in fact the organist at Christ Church, wasn't he? And your mother, was she a musical?

Lord Armstrong5:12

She played the violin and sang. She was not a professional, but she was a a keen amateur.

Presenter5:17

What sort of boy were you?

Lord Armstrong5:20

I should think that I was probably thought of as a sap. I was not very good at games and I was fairly good at at work.

Lord Armstrong5:29

I think I was probably rather timid, boy.

Presenter5:32

But were you the sort of boy, I wonder, to whom other boys told their secrets?

Lord Armstrong5:37

No, I don't think I was really. I can't remember any great secrets coming my way in that way.

Presenter5:41

You can't remember any great discretion on your part even then.

Lord Armstrong5:46

No, I think my family would tell you that I was secretive to a degree, but I don't remember that particular attribute at that time. I think that's been acquired, not inherited.

Presenter5:52

I think that's been a

Presenter5:54

You won a scholarship to Eton, um and and indeed a scholarship to uh to Christchurch after that, didn't you?

Lord Armstrong6:00

I couldn't have gone to Eton without it.

Presenter6:02

Let's hear your second record. Different Yeah.

Lord Armstrong6:04

Well, you were saying that I had a lot of music round me when I was young, and I can remember.

Lord Armstrong6:09

Very vividly my first introduction to French music, when my father was rehearsing for a recital with a soprano soloist called Sophie Wiss.

Lord Armstrong6:17

And I heard music that seemed to me to be more beautiful than anything I'd ever heard in my life. And I remember sitting on the staircase in the hall of the house we had in Oxford, and the music which they were rehearsing was Nell, a song by Gabriel Faure, the French composer of the late late 19th, early 20th century. And this introduced me to French music, which has remained a strong love ever since. And I would want to have on an island that song, and in particular, the recording of Maggie Tate singing it.

Speaker 36:53

The proof that walks the ring

Speaker 37:13

We don't move.

Speaker 37:15

Yeah.

Speaker 37:18

Yeah.

Speaker 37:34

The topic to so scared no family.

Speaker 37:39

Eight burden and a poor sieve.

Presenter7:50

Maggie Tate singing Nell by Foray, accompanied by Gerald Moore.

Presenter7:55

Lord Armstrong, was it um always your intention to wend your way to Whitehall?

Lord Armstrong8:00

Not at all. I came down from Christchurch in nineteen forty nine expecting to go into the Navy, but the fact that I'd had a mastoid operation ten years earlier disqualified me from national service. And so I had to take a much quicker decision, much earlier decision than I expected about what I was going to do.

Lord Armstrong8:20

I wondered about an academic life, but I decided that that was not for me for various reasons.

Lord Armstrong8:27

Uh um

Lord Armstrong8:28

I was actually offered the chance of going on to the the music staff of the Times by Frank Howes, who was then the head of the music staff of the Times and was a great friend of my family. Um but again I decided against that and was

Lord Armstrong8:42

Introduced to the idea of going to the civil service by Sir John Maud, who was then Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Education. He didn't exactly proselytise, but he told me what the life was like, what to expect and what not to expect.

Lord Armstrong8:54

And on the basis of that I thought that I would try and go into the civil service.

Presenter8:59

Now, Whitehall, for all its inbuilt integrity, must be a a a hive of gossip. I mean, after all, you you can't go home or go outside and talk about it, so inside.

Lord Armstrong9:09

Yes, it is. Of course there's a great deal of gossip.

Presenter9:09

Yes, it is.

Lord Armstrong9:12

On the whole, there's a also a very great sense of

Lord Armstrong9:16

What you might call collegiality of comradeship. And I think it's freer than many walks of life from the

Lord Armstrong9:23

in fighting. Uh there's some of course there's and some in any kind of

Lord Armstrong9:28

activity, professional activity. But I think it's freer than many.

Presenter9:32

Another record, please.

Lord Armstrong9:34

My third record is from the the closing passage from

Lord Armstrong9:39

The five-part mass of William Bird. I s I was telling you earlier that I'd

Lord Armstrong9:44

I spent uh much of my life singing with a particular group of friends with whom I first sang when I was a teenager. Through all those years, the piece which to which we have returned most often is this Mass for Five Voices by William Bird, singing it one voice to a part. And I think that if you don't play the violin and I don't play the violin, that's as near as you get.

Lord Armstrong10:07

to the enjoyment of playing, say, a Mozart string quintet.

Lord Armstrong10:12

Um it is the most marvellous music.

Lord Armstrong10:14

Marvellously rewarding to sing as the parts weave in and out.

Speaker 310:27

Yeah.

Presenter11:11

Closing passage of Bird's Mass for Five Voices sung by the choir of Christchurch Cathedral, Oxford, directed by Simon Preston.

Presenter11:20

That will um keep you calm, Lord Armstrong, on the desert island.

Lord Armstrong11:23

It's the most marvellous, serene music, controlled emotion that comes from it, marvellous stuff.

Presenter11:30

Are you looking forward to going to the island? I mean, does it enthrall you or terrify you, the idea of this loneliness?

Lord Armstrong11:36

It enthralls me. I don't actually know how I should cope with it. I think that I should, as it were, make the best of it, try to get on with the practical business of

Lord Armstrong11:44

shelter and food and all those things.

Lord Armstrong11:48

But I've no doubt that I should quickly begin to miss people.

Presenter11:51

I wonder what you'll muse upon while you're there. They say that you you know more secrets than anybody else in Whitehall. Perhaps you'll think through all the secrets.

Lord Armstrong11:59

I should

Lord Armstrong12:00

Might do about that. I might even want to try to

Lord Armstrong12:03

revert to some of the I used to try to write mus music uh in my spare time. I haven't done it for many years, but if one had a few moments when one's li either struggling for food or shelter or listening to the records, I might try and revert to that.

Presenter12:18

You very smoothly duck the secrets question.

Presenter12:22

Uh do you do you often do you ever sit there and think?

Lord Armstrong12:22

Do you know?

Presenter12:24

My goodness, I could have told him or her that then and what would have happened if

Lord Armstrong12:29

Yes, I do. Of course I do.

Presenter12:31

Well now, going back to to to your your career, you first went to number ten. You twenty years at the Treasury, weren't you?

Lord Armstrong12:36

Twenty years in the Treasury, give or take, took a couple of years out for a monetary committee under Lord Rantcliffe, who was one of the men who I most admired and who most coloured my life really, and he became a very great friend.

Presenter12:50

But then you went um to number ten in nineteen seventy um under another great friend, Edward Heath.

Lord Armstrong12:57

He was the organ scholar at Balliol College at Oxford, and my father was the senior member who looked after the Balliol concerts there. So yes, I used to see mister Heath, and I think that this old family connection was perhaps one of the reasons why.

Lord Armstrong13:14

mister Heath was prepared to accept the suggestion that I should go and be his private secretary.

Presenter13:19

And you spent those first years of of the seventies working hard towards entry into the common market and

Lord Armstrong13:24

Well, this was one, of course, of the great threads of Mr. Heath's Prime Ministership, and I was naturally as his principal private secretary, very much involved in that.

Presenter13:34

Let's have your fourth record.

Presenter13:36

When I

Lord Armstrong13:36

When I came to London after Oxford, one of the

Lord Armstrong13:40

Great happinesses was getting to know Ray Thorne Williams, who was the other person, apart from Lord Radcliffe and my father, who has most coloured my life. I got to know him in those last years of his life, between nineteen fifty one and nineteen fifty eight, when he was living in London, and we used to go and sing.

Lord Armstrong14:00

with him every month at his home, singing madricals and things like that. Again, the singing wasn't very good, but because it was marvellous to be in his company, and I shall never forget those times.

Lord Armstrong14:11

So I would want.

Lord Armstrong14:13

To remind myself of that great man, but also because the music is so unutterably beautiful.

Lord Armstrong14:20

And because

Lord Armstrong14:22

It's Shakespearean, and as I l look and think back, the

Lord Armstrong14:28

Alliance of Shakespeare and music has meant a lot to me. His Serenade to Music

Lord Armstrong14:34

which he wrote in nineteen thirty eight, fifty years ago, for Sir Henry Wood for the Proms.

Speaker 314:50

I wait for

Speaker 315:02

What reason is your spirit of attempting?

Presenter15:25

Part of Vaughan Williams' Serenade to Music, the recording conducted by Sir Adrian Boat with the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter15:33

After mister Heath, at number ten, came mister Wilson. How can you cope with that as a permanent secretary?

Lord Armstrong15:41

Well, it's very extraordinary, but that is your part of your professional

Lord Armstrong15:45

Equipment, this ability to

Lord Armstrong15:49

to change to serve uh ministers of whatever political party. That was of course a a very extreme change. I went to Buckingham Palace with Mr. Heath when he went to resign and I returned from Buckingham Palace half an hour later with Mr. Wilson to d ten Downing Street and went straight into serving him.

Presenter16:09

But now you'd been working for for three years towards Europe with with great enthusiasm, I think um and then here came a man talking of having a referendum as to whether we should be in the common market, and talking about perhaps one day pulling out. How how can you cope with that?

Lord Armstrong16:23

So long as we were talking about renegotiation and the possibility of

Lord Armstrong16:28

continuing in the community. I thought that if mister Wilson wanted me to stay, I could stay. I should have been in difficulty if he had made a definite decision to come out.

Lord Armstrong16:38

Not just because of what I myself felt about it, but because I simply shouldn't have been credible as a representative of mister Wilson in Europe.

Lord Armstrong16:52

Um though though yes, it was really the closest I the the closest that I have come to having to think of either resigning or going into some part of the civil service where that wouldn't have been a problem.

Lord Armstrong17:03

As it was on that occasion, uh after the immediate crisis so not crisis, the immediate

Lord Armstrong17:10

business of change of government, I said to mister Wilson that if he wanted to make a change I should perfectly understand. And he said, No, I don't want to make a change. You and I get along very well together. The office is working very well. I'd like you to stay on.

Presenter17:23

But you did eventually go to Mississippi.

Lord Armstrong17:23

Did it actually

Lord Armstrong17:24

I went after another year, after I'd had five years in in number ten.

Presenter17:25

After

Presenter17:27

He went to the home office and you went Roy Jenkins

Lord Armstrong17:29

Roy was in the Home Office at that stage and I'd worked for him as uh when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer. I was his Joint Principal Private Secretary in 1968.

Lord Armstrong17:38

And when I was coming out of number ten, he

Lord Armstrong17:42

and said it would be a good idea if I joined him in the Home Office.

Presenter17:46

Shall we have your fifth record?

Lord Armstrong17:47

One of the first things that happened after I came to London as a civil servant.

Lord Armstrong17:52

Was that I became involved with the Royal Uprise at Covent Garden.

Lord Armstrong17:57

The then secretary to the directors of the Royal Upper House was a civil servant called Dennis Rickett, and in nineteen fifty six

Lord Armstrong18:04

He asked me to help out as an assistant for three weeks while his colleague was unwell, and the three weeks turned into thirty years.

Lord Armstrong18:13

And so I've had this long, long association with Covent Garden, which has meant an enormous amount to me.

Lord Armstrong18:21

It's not therefore surprising that many of the records that I would have on the island would be operatic.

Lord Armstrong18:29

I heard my first Wagner at Coven Garden actually just before.

Lord Armstrong18:33

I became Assistant Secretary of the Directors, but I've been to, I think, all the productions of Wagner that they've done since that time.

Lord Armstrong18:42

And above all, I come back to

Lord Armstrong18:46

The Meistersinger.

Lord Armstrong18:48

which seems to me to be really one of the pinnacles of European civilization, an absolutely tiring masterpiece. But the bit I think I should play most often if I had the records on the on the island would be the end of Act Two of Meistersinger, where there's been a kind of riot in the streets of Nirenberg in the evening and they've been beating each other up and then suddenly the night watchman's horn is heard and the crowd melts away and the streets are empty and the moon comes out.

Lord Armstrong19:21

And there is this little coda which is the moonlight in the empty streets after the night watchman's gone.

Presenter20:24

The end of Act Two of Wagner's opera The Master Singers in the recording conducted by Rudolf Kempe with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter20:32

So in nineteen seventy-nine, then Sir Robert Armstrong, the call came from Mrs. Thatcher to him to be her Cabinet Secretary. How did it happen?

Lord Armstrong20:41

One day in July I was rung up and asked to come round and see the Prime Minister, and she said, Royal Robert, I've asked you to come here to ask you to be the Cabinet Secretary when John Hunt goes. I've not asked anybody else because that's what I would like to happen.

Lord Armstrong20:55

And that was marvellously flattering, and of course quite irresistible, and

Lord Armstrong21:00

I didn't waste any time.

Lord Armstrong21:02

And saying yes.

Presenter21:03

What does a Cabinet Secretary do?

Lord Armstrong21:06

They've

Lord Armstrong21:07

Analogy which I sometimes use is that of the chief engineer.

Lord Armstrong21:11

In a ship. The Prime Minister and her colleagues are the up on the bridge.

Lord Armstrong21:16

steering the course and

Lord Armstrong21:18

Giving instructions as to the speed and direction of the vessel, and the chief engineer is down there making sure that the ship responds and works.

Presenter21:26

So it's that chief engineer's job to um to be at Cabinet meetings, to hear um what is discussed, to to write those minutes afterwards, and then to send the marching orders, as it were, to the crew to Whitehall.

Lord Armstrong21:39

That's right. The uh you're there, you sit on the Prime Minister's right, you write down, you make notes of what is said, you compile uh minutes of it, as one of my irreverent predecessors is said to have said.

Lord Armstrong21:50

When asked what he did, well, you

Lord Armstrong21:53

You don't write down what they said, and you don't write down what they thought they said. You write down what they would have said if they'd thought what they were saying.

Presenter22:01

Which makes it a very powerful decision.

Lord Armstrong22:02

And that was it's a slight exaggeration. But then, of course, every Cabinet minute must end with a conclusion.

Lord Armstrong22:11

a decision which the the cabinet has taken and

Lord Armstrong22:14

Clear

Lord Armstrong22:15

Instructions as to what is to happen as a result of it.

Presenter22:18

Well, now you, um, perhaps more than anyone, have the the ear of the Prime Minister, or had the ear of the Prime Minister during that time. Is she a good listener?

Lord Armstrong22:25

She's a very good listener when you're talking to her on her own, as we're talking now. She argues with

Lord Armstrong22:32

determination and even fiercely uh she's likes to test your argument uh and your

Lord Armstrong22:40

your knowledge of the th of the matter which is being discussed. But she listens, and having tested it and having argued perhaps quite fiercely, if you're on good ground and your arguments are serious and well based, she not only listens but

Lord Armstrong22:55

will will follow accordingly.

Presenter22:58

Change her mind.

Lord Armstrong22:59

I've changed my mind.

Presenter23:00

Did you ever lose your temper with her?

Lord Armstrong23:02

Never.

Presenter23:03

Did she ever lose her temper with you?

Lord Armstrong23:05

Never.

Lord Armstrong23:06

She can speak outspokenly, but I don't remember any occasion in which she lost either of us lost our temper.

Presenter23:13

Of course, together you were faced, as one of your colleagues wrote, with an awful series of stinkers. He put it GCHQ.

Lord Armstrong23:19

Yeah.

Presenter23:21

Sponting, Westland, and Spycatcher, to name a few.

Presenter23:25

For a man who's expressed his preference for being in the back room.

Presenter23:29

Some of those must have been public torment for you.

Lord Armstrong23:32

I think torment is putting it too high. Um

Lord Armstrong23:35

Where I differed from some of my predecessors as Cabinet Secretary was that I was also head of the civil service. And it's not possible to be that without some degree of exposure, if you like to put it that way, because you can't be a head of a thing without being exposed. Yeah.

Presenter23:50

Let's have your sixth record please.

Lord Armstrong23:53

Well, it's again it's another operatic recording, which I would want to have partly because I think it's the most marvellous opera.

Lord Armstrong24:00

And partly because this recording is conducted by George Schulte, whom I got to know when he became the music director at Covent Garden, and he and his wife have remained very great friends ever since. I should have to have some Verdi on the island, and of all Verdi's operas, if I have to choose one, it will with Fullstaff.

Lord Armstrong24:21

The thing that I think I should listen to most often would be the love duet between Nanetta and Fenton.

Lord Armstrong24:31

exquisitely beautiful and

Lord Armstrong24:33

So full of

Lord Armstrong24:36

tenderness uh

Lord Armstrong24:38

Coming from

Lord Armstrong24:39

or a man who was then round about eighty years old. Absolutely miraculous.

Speaker 325:06

Oijiama Travis.

Lord Armstrong25:07

Uh

Speaker 325:10

Lovely Johnny.

Speaker 325:13

Mumble tree, cheeky sausage,

Lord Armstrong25:17

SITER

Speaker 325:19

He lived the hunt.

Presenter25:26

Mustafi Piyaji

Presenter25:33

Mirella Freini and Alfredo Kraus in Verdi's opera Falstaff with the RCA Italiana Opera Orchestra conducted by Sir George Schulte.

Presenter25:43

Well now it was in november nineteen eighty six, Lord Armstrong, that you as the Cabinet Secretary were asked to go to Sydney to argue against the publication of Peter Wright's book, Spycatcher, and you made the fateful remark that you had been economical with the truth.

Presenter25:58

You must have regretted saying that ever since.

Lord Armstrong26:00

Well, I didn't I regretted it in the sense that I didn't need to say it. It I said it more or less

Lord Armstrong26:07

en passant about a letter which I had sent to a publisher in nineteen eighty one.

Lord Armstrong26:11

Before the publication of the book Their Trade is Treachery. And

Lord Armstrong26:17

I had had to explain why I had not mentioned in that letter which was asking for a an advanced copy of the book that we had already had access to an earlier copy in proof. I wasn't free to disclose that because we had had that copy, earlier copy, in confidence. And so the the letter which I sent when I asked for a copy, not in confidence, was to that degree

Lord Armstrong26:40

economical with the truth. I was surprised when the phrase got as much publicity as it did.

Lord Armstrong26:47

And of course it doesn't mean lying, uh and I would like that to be quite clear. As you will remember, I I did have to say that I had was wrong about the Attorney General having known about a particular thing. But um that was a genuine error, as it were. It was not a deliberate lie and I would certainly not accept that I

Lord Armstrong27:08

I either lied or to or was economical with the truth in my evidence to the court.

Presenter27:13

There were also those who said, of course, that the judge there in Sydney was indulging in a spot of rather public pommy bashing.

Lord Armstrong27:21

I don't think that he was basically unfair. Um

Lord Armstrong27:25

I had the impression that there was a degree of resentment on his part at the British Government coming down with its full weight.

Lord Armstrong27:34

in the Australian court, in the New South Wales court, on this old and sick

Lord Armstrong27:40

uh man who had written this book. And uh of course it was also the case that the England eleven were slaughtering the Australians in Perth in the second Test. Uh and I dare say it was felt that

Lord Armstrong27:53

In Australia, that a certain amount of writing the balance in Sydney with a spot of pommy bashing in Quart 8 was in order.

Presenter28:00

Your seventh record.

Lord Armstrong28:02

Um

Lord Armstrong28:04

One of the non-operatic threads in in my musical life

Lord Armstrong28:10

particularly over the last over recent years, has been

Lord Armstrong28:13

A great delight in the music of Mendelsohn.

Lord Armstrong28:16

And

Lord Armstrong28:17

There's so much marvellous music which he wrote, and I would certainly want some Mendelssohn on the island. I wondered whether I would want the Midsummer Night's Dream or The Octet, both of which I think are absolutely marvellous. But I would settle in the end for the piano trio in D minor, uh partly because I think it's an

Lord Armstrong28:35

a very great work.

Lord Armstrong28:37

And partly because

Lord Armstrong28:39

I used to try and play, at any rate, the first two movements with my daughters, one of whom plays the violin and the other plays the cello.

Lord Armstrong28:46

And there was a point when their curve of getting better was crossing with my curve of getting worse at the piano. And we were able, roughly speaking, to match ourselves in the first two movements. I could never tackle the second two.

Presenter29:53

The third movement of Mendelssohn's piano trio in D minor, played by the Beauzard trio.

Presenter29:59

So that was how, Lord Armstrong, in the last few months of a of a distinguished but enormously discreet career, you became rather a household name.

Lord Armstrong30:08

Yeah.

Presenter30:08

Does that mean that?

Lord Armstrong30:09

Oh hash old face anyway.

Presenter30:10

Does that amuse you now? Does it annoy you, deep down?

Lord Armstrong30:13

Um

Lord Armstrong30:16

A bit of both, I think, really. Looking back on it now later, I don't have enormous regrets. I'm sure that it had to be done. I don't think w w one could have let that publication pass without trying to stop it happening. Uh I don't think it would have been easy to find somebody else to go and do that job. Um I did the best I could uh and I don't

Lord Armstrong30:38

regret or feel ashamed of what I did.

Presenter30:41

Have you kept any diaries or not?

Lord Armstrong30:42

Yeah.

Presenter30:44

Will you write it?

Lord Armstrong30:44

I've made notes of some episodes, but I as I went along, but I've not kept a diary.

Presenter30:49

I think it's a good idea.

Lord Armstrong30:49

I don't think I can go halfway round the world.

Lord Armstrong30:51

to try and stop him publishing his memoirs and then go out and publish your own memoirs. But whether one can write anything reflective of having spent so long at the centre of government, I think is an another matter.

Lord Armstrong31:06

Well, I expect you've noticed that there's a great hole.

Lord Armstrong31:09

in the selection of these records in that there's no Mozart.

Lord Armstrong31:14

Um

Lord Armstrong31:15

And one would want all of it, or a great deal of it, and so it's very difficult to make the choice.

Lord Armstrong31:21

But in the end I came back to Figaro. It's the greatest of all operas.

Lord Armstrong31:26

I think it would have all the elements of Mozart which I would want to.

Lord Armstrong31:32

have access to when I was on the island.

Lord Armstrong31:34

Um

Lord Armstrong31:35

The bit that I think I should probably go back to.

Lord Armstrong31:38

most often is the finale of the second act. And I would like to have the recording conducted by Colin Davis, who is an almost exact contemporary and with whom

Lord Armstrong31:49

I've made a lot of music, including the pinnacle of my orchestral career when I played the big bass drum in a performance of Di Enfurum which he conducted about thirty-five years ago.

Speaker 332:05

Uh

Speaker 332:10

Yeah.

Speaker 332:14

They would say.

Speaker 332:17

Bessie you know gold must start

Speaker 332:53

So pretty crazy.

Presenter33:00

Mirella Freigny, Vladimiro Ganzaroli, Ingva Vixel, and Jessie Norman in Mozart's The Marriage of Figaro, with the B B C Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Colin Davis. Lord Armstrong, I think you've enjoyed your records more than any other castaway I've known. You haven't exactly conducted them, you've sort of wriggled through.

Lord Armstrong33:17

Nevermind.

Lord Armstrong33:18

It it's very curious how when you extract pieces like this, um the impact they have is

Lord Armstrong33:25

Just as strong as as perhaps even stronger than if you were listening to them in context. It's a very strange feeling.

Presenter33:31

We get to the impossible bit now, which is that you have to choose one of them above all others.

Lord Armstrong33:36

Well, of course I want them all, and a lot of others as well.

Lord Armstrong33:39

But in the end

Lord Armstrong33:41

I should love to have the bird, and I should love to have the master singers, but in the end it's figaro.

Lord Armstrong33:47

I would have to have, I think, well I would want to have the marriager figure if all else failed.

Presenter33:52

And you have to choose a book. You have, I think you know, the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. What would your book be?

Lord Armstrong34:00

Well, I saw in a bookstore the other day um a complete edition of the novels of Jane Austen.

Lord Armstrong34:08

And I I think if I'm allowed to get away with that, I will. If I'm economical with the rules. If you're economical with the rules. If you put me up against a wall, I should take persuasion.

Presenter34:17

You can have them all. There aren't that many.

Lord Armstrong34:17

You can have them all. There aren't that many.

Presenter34:20

And your luxury.

Lord Armstrong34:23

Um

Lord Armstrong34:24

Well, as I as I mentioned to you earlier, I used to try and write music, and I am might have a bit of time in hand on the island. So I think I would like to take a good supply of music manuscript paper with a pencil and a sharpener and a rubber, so that if I did want to I could try and

Lord Armstrong34:41

write some music, or I could try and write down the pieces which I hadn't got on records.

Presenter34:45

You shall have it, and thank you very much indeed, Lord Armstrong, for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 234:57

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.