Arthur Scargill

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty eight, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is someone who many people might like to see on a desert island. Extremely popular with the men he leads, he nevertheless appears to be intensely disliked by those with whom he clashes. A fiery orator and a committed socialist, he's defended his cause with a passion which means he cannot be ignored. He is of course the President of the National Union of Mine Workers, Arthur Scargill.

Presenter0:54

Arthur Scargill, like it or not, you are something of a bete noir to many. How much does that worry you?

Arthur Scargill1:02

It doesn't worry me, it sometimes saddens me that people can have an image.

Arthur Scargill1:07

Of a person that's not true. And I suspect that it's um comparable with the soap operas on television.

Arthur Scargill1:14

I remember my wife and daughter a few years ago uh watching the Forsyth saga.

Arthur Scargill1:19

And each week, each episode, they were absolutely condemning one of the central characters, Soames.

Arthur Scargill1:27

And one week I came home and there was so much sympathy for Soames that I couldn't believe it. And I said, But hang on a second, what's gone wrong?

Arthur Scargill1:34

And they said, Well, his wife has committed adultery and gone off with another man, and uh obviously they felt terribly sorry for Soames.

Arthur Scargill1:41

and it suddenly struck me that this was an image rather than the reality of the person.

Arthur Scargill1:47

And I think what happens is that the image of Arthur Scargill

Arthur Scargill1:51

disguises the reality of the person, and it's only when people actually meet me that they discover the real me and when they do, by and large they say that you are different from the person we thought you were. So while it saddens me, I understand it.

Presenter2:04

Well, now, Arthur, you're off to this desert island, and I mean, who knows, you may be extremely happy to get away from all sorts of other people, let alone what they think about you. Will you be any good at fending for yourself?

Arthur Scargill2:15

Oh yes, I'm a I'm a dab hand at making fish and chips, for example, and I uh would certainly have a go at constructing a hut of some kind and uh try to make life on the desert island as comfortable as possible. But I'm pretty orderly in my everyday life, and so therefore I would try and get some kind of plan on the desert island that would enable me to have

Arthur Scargill2:36

a store of food. It would enable me to have uh proper living accommodation so that uh until the time came when I was rescued, hopefully, I would survive in uh surroundings that were at least reasonable.

Presenter2:49

You've been thinking about this, haven't you?

Arthur Scargill2:52

Yes, ever since I got your invitation.

Presenter2:55

Now, how have you set about choosing these eight records? Are they memories or are they just things you like?

Arthur Scargill3:00

Well, they're a mixture of both. In my early days I was a fanatic as far as jazz was concerned, and I've always paid particular attention to the great black jazz musicians in uh America. And one of my favorite pieces of music is the uh Scott Joplin piece, The Entertainer.

Presenter4:10

The Entertainer by Scott Joplin from the original Sting soundtrack.

Presenter4:15

Arthur Scargill, is there something of the entertainer in you, do you think?

Arthur Scargill4:19

Oh yes, I think there is.

Arthur Scargill4:21

Particularly when I appear on a public platform and uh make a public speech.

Arthur Scargill4:25

I think you see a completely different Arthur Scargill in those circumstances than you do, for instance, on television or on a radio programme. The fact is that you're able to give the complete picture in, say, a 40 or 50 or 60 minute speech. And you're able to throw pieces of humour into the speech, which you're not able to do when you've been very severely cross-examined by a television or radio interviewer. So, yes, there is.

Presenter4:49

Or radio interviewer. So yes, there is. But isn't it more than that? Isn't it actually the feeling of power as you raise those people up or depress them or whatever you do? I mean, isn't that what you enjoy?

Arthur Scargill5:00

No, it isn't. It it it's actually because I believe in what I'm doing that it comes out, uh, possibly to the observer in that fashion.

Arthur Scargill5:09

I find that because I believe so passionately in what I do.

Arthur Scargill5:14

That it communicates itself to the audience, and that's the reason that you can feel the audience going with you and coming to its feet at certain points, clapping you very loudly. And I suspect that anybody who has been in that position will confirm that view. That if you speak very passionately about something that matters, your audience begins to identify with you, and they begin to see very clearly that what you're talking about is something that they have been thinking about for a considerable period of time.

Arthur Scargill5:45

possibly never put into their words that they wanted to hear, and you've articulated for them what they wanted. I find that by and large I'm able to communicate with people extremely well from a public platform. I prefer a public speech, for example, than a lecture. It allows me to uh really have a go.

Presenter6:04

Let's go back to um the very beginning, you as a little boy. Um did you always want to have a go?

Arthur Scargill6:11

I was always a bit of a rebel. Even at school I had a habit of questioning and wouldn't allow the teacher to simply say something without me asking why.

Presenter6:22

And were you popular with the other children?

Arthur Scargill6:25

Yes, I found that uh I was reasonably popular with the other kids at school. I played soccer. I was a a soccer fanatic. I also was pretty good at wrestling and uh later in life of course for ten years I did judo. But I was reasonably popular with the lads.

Presenter6:39

And it's all coming news.

Arthur Scargill6:40

It's all coming useful, particularly in certain instances when telephone kiosk doors have been wrenched open and blokes with snooker queues have appeared.

Presenter6:48

Now, you were an only child, Arthur.

Arthur Scargill6:51

Yes, I was.

Presenter6:53

Can you remember your mother?'Cause she died when you were quite young, didn't she?

Arthur Scargill6:56

She died actually when I was eighteen. I remember my mother with probably more.

Arthur Scargill7:01

A vivid uh recollection than anything else in my life.

Arthur Scargill7:04

It was the most devastating period of the the whole of my life when she died.

Arthur Scargill7:08

and for three months it literally rendered me unable to function properly.

Arthur Scargill7:14

I

Arthur Scargill7:15

It was very, very close to my mother because my father in the Second World War was in the Royal Air Force.

Arthur Scargill7:20

and so my mother and I became inseparable.

Arthur Scargill7:23

And uh she died when she was fifty years of age.

Arthur Scargill7:26

She was a Christian?

Arthur Scargill7:28

Uh she was a a very lovely woman and um obviously I loved her very much indeed. I often think back and uh regret deeply that she never saw any of the things that I was able to achieve in later life because the only thing that she ever saw me do was to go down the pit and join the Young Communist League and both of those things she disapproved of because she didn't want me to get hurt down the pit and she didn't want me to get hurt by joining the Young Communist League.

Presenter7:54

Do you think she would have been proud of you to day?

Arthur Scargill7:56

I'm sure my mother would have been as proud of me as I was of her.

Presenter8:01

Shall we have another record?

Arthur Scargill8:03

Yes, I think a record that um

Arthur Scargill8:05

epitomizes my feeling about my mother.

Arthur Scargill8:08

She was a Christian incidentally so am I.

Arthur Scargill8:11

It's a beautiful hymn, it's called O Love That Will Not Let Me Go.

Presenter8:58

The hymn O Love That Will Not Let Me Go sung by the London Emanuel Choir.

Presenter9:03

Tell me about your father, Arthur. He was a miner.

Arthur Scargill9:06

Yes, he was, and he has been a lifelong Communist as well.

Arthur Scargill9:12

My father, in many ways, was the very opposite of my mother. My mother was strictly non-political. My father was very political indeed.

Arthur Scargill9:19

And I was brought up in a in a household filled with love, but also filled with this um marvellous contradiction. My mother who used to go uh to church and my father who used to go to the Communist Party meeting and to the meetings of the National Union of Mine Workers.

Presenter9:33

Were there lots of arguments in the house then?

Arthur Scargill9:35

Oh no, there were no arguments in the house, funnily enough. My mother s totally supported my father, absolutely loved him, and uh of course it was reciprocated. But um I found that I used to have lots of discussions with my father, although he never ever tried to persuade me to adopt his political persuasion.

Arthur Scargill9:55

He thought it was best that I make up my own mind.

Arthur Scargill9:58

And it wasn't until I was about fourteen

Arthur Scargill10:01

that I asked him if I could go to a political meeting with him.

Presenter10:03

So what was it like, that that first descent into your your father's habitat, if you like?

Arthur Scargill10:09

The first day at work was almost indescribable. I remember walking the pit yard at Woolly, which is a a colliery to the north of Barnsley.

Arthur Scargill10:19

And it was a dank, dark morning, and I was put into the engineer's office to await the big man coming along.

Arthur Scargill10:26

There were about six of us waiting.

Arthur Scargill10:28

Andy Dooley came into the office about ten minutes to six. He was wearing a pork pie hat.

Arthur Scargill10:34

And he says, What have we got here?

Arthur Scargill10:36

And what we got here, of course, was six young lads who were terrified.

Arthur Scargill10:40

And he told his assistant to take us down into the screens. Our screening plant was a

Arthur Scargill10:46

An area where you had a job picking out the rock from the coal as it went past on a conveyor belt.

Arthur Scargill10:51

And we went across the pit yard and down some steps.

Arthur Scargill10:55

Under some very dark areas and then down some more steps.

Arthur Scargill11:00

into an area which I can only describe as being comparable to Dante's Inferno.

Arthur Scargill11:05

The dust was so thick you couldn't see

Arthur Scargill11:07

more than about a foot or two foot in front of you, and the noise was so intense that I actually learned within the space of three weeks to

Arthur Scargill11:16

Speak with sign language.

Arthur Scargill11:18

I had to exist in that atmosphere for nearly a year.

Arthur Scargill11:21

and it certainly had a tremendous influence on the way that I reacted towards other people.

Presenter11:25

Can we hear your third record?

Arthur Scargill11:27

My third record is one that um I've always uh loved since I first heard it, and it's a section from Orphis in the Underworld by Offenbach.

Presenter12:35

Orpheus in the Underworld by Offenbach, part of the overture played by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Douglas Gamley.

Presenter12:45

Why is it, Arthur Scargill, then, if being down the pit is such a a noisy hell as you describe, why is it that it has such a romantic image?

Arthur Scargill12:56

If it's not being sexist, I suppose it's like being married. You have amazing rounds, but you always go back.

Arthur Scargill13:03

I think what it is, is that there is a degree of comradeship in the mining industry that you'll not find anywhere else, probably apart from, say, the the fishing industry.

Arthur Scargill13:14

And it's because of the closeness of the people in the environment in which they work.

Arthur Scargill13:20

And I recall vividly working with these young lads in real dangerous circumstances, and feeling a sympathy for them and them for me.

Arthur Scargill13:30

So that, um, if one of them was threatened with anything.

Arthur Scargill13:33

Say discipline by the management.

Arthur Scargill13:35

We saw it as an attack upon ourselves.

Presenter13:37

And how quickly did you spot amongst these these six young boys you describe you go down the pit with how quickly did you spot that what they needed was a champion, a leader, somebody to stand up for them?

Arthur Scargill13:49

I think um

Arthur Scargill13:50

relatively quickly. I mean, I thought the d the uh

Arthur Scargill13:54

Circumstances in which we were working were so appalling that they needed challenging.

Arthur Scargill14:00

But uh what happened uh when I went down the pit itself? I was working with a whole group of young lads.

Arthur Scargill14:06

And I found that before the holiday period everybody else in the pit

Arthur Scargill14:10

When they finish work we're allowed to go home.

Arthur Scargill14:13

immediately prior to the holiday commencing.

Arthur Scargill14:15

But for some inexplicable reason the young lads were not allowed to do this, even though they finished their work they were compelled to stay down.

Arthur Scargill14:23

And so the lads asked me if I'd be the spokesman.

Arthur Scargill14:26

And I went into the manager's office, and it seemed to me that the manager's office was about three hundred feet in length. It seemed to take me so long to walk across the room.

Arthur Scargill14:35

and the manager was sitting there smoking a pipe.

Arthur Scargill14:38

And he said, What's thou want, lad?

Arthur Scargill14:41

And I said, Well, I've uh I've come to represent all the lads in the pit bottom.

Arthur Scargill14:46

Oh, hi.

Arthur Scargill14:48

About what?

Arthur Scargill14:50

And so I explained to him the case, and I said, And what we're asking, Mr Steele, is for permission for us to go home when we've completed our work just today.

Arthur Scargill15:00

He says, Thou knows I can't give thee that permission.

Arthur Scargill15:04

And just as they were going to the door he said

Arthur Scargill15:06

Thou'd be better off than o's training in Moscow, thee, rather than here.

Arthur Scargill15:10

And I went out and I thought

Arthur Scargill15:12

I haven't succeeded in those negotiations.

Arthur Scargill15:15

And I suddenly realized he hadn't said no.

Arthur Scargill15:18

It simply said it couldn't give us permission.

Arthur Scargill15:21

And so when the time came at the end of the shift was to come out,

Arthur Scargill15:25

I promptly led them all out with the rest of the men.

Arthur Scargill15:29

And to everybody's astonishment we all got paid our full wages, and from that moment on I was regarded as something of a champion in the pit.

Presenter15:35

The first taste of power.

Presenter15:37

Let's have your fourth record.

Arthur Scargill15:39

I'd like to hear The Beale Street Blues by Louis Armstrong and The All Stars.

Speaker 415:44

You'll see pretty browns.

Speaker 415:47

In beautiful gowns.

Speaker 415:50

See Taylor Maz.

Speaker 415:53

And hand me downs.

Speaker 415:56

You meet honest men

Speaker 415:59

And quick pocket skill.

Speaker 416:02

You'll find that business never closes Till somebody gets killed.

Speaker 416:09

If Bill Sweet could talk.

Speaker 416:13

If Bean Street could talk.

Speaker 416:16

Married men would have to take their beds in war.

Speaker 416:22

Except one or two.

Speaker 416:25

Who never drink bruise And the blind man on the corner?

Speaker 416:32

Who sings the Beale Street?

Presenter16:34

The Beale Street Blues by Louis Armstrong and the All Stars. How how do you relax, Arthur? I mean, do you have people round and play them your old jazz record?

Arthur Scargill16:43

No, I relax by listening to music like that. I also watch television, which I find quite therapeutic actually. I think it's because I can concentrate on it without

Arthur Scargill16:52

being too deeply uh involved.

Arthur Scargill16:55

And I also go for walks with uh my dogs. I've got three beautiful Airedale dogs. My daughter of course says they're her dogs, so there there's a challenge there. And we've got uh geese, which we've named appropriately, Gaddafi, Gorbachev and Grimiko. And I also like uh soccer. I'm a soccer fanatic, and whenever I get the chance, I still like to go see a good soccer match.

Presenter17:16

Well, now you you met and married your wife, Anne, when you were twenty-three in the early sixties. How did you meet?

Arthur Scargill17:23

Well, I met her as a result of uh working with her father, although I never suspected for one moment that he got a daughter.

Arthur Scargill17:30

I discovered that she was learning to drive a car, so I promptly offered my services as an expert driver to teach her how to drive.

Arthur Scargill17:38

We went for a drive and I invited her to a jazz concert to Here Chris Barber and uh within a few months' time uh we had played together and uh got married.

Presenter17:47

Now, it was just after that, in your mid-twenties, that you went off uh uh to university on a sort of day release, wasn't it?

Arthur Scargill17:54

Yes, the National Union of Mine Workers had adopted a scheme.

Arthur Scargill17:59

for sending what it called its talented young people to university on a day release course for three years, and we could go along and take economics, industrial relations and social history.

Arthur Scargill18:11

And you could either go to the University of Leeds or University of Sheffield, dependent, of course, if you were accepted.

Arthur Scargill18:17

And I went along to the University of Leeds for three years. I actually got offered a place at Oxford as a result of that, but couldn't afford to go.

Arthur Scargill18:26

But during the time that I was at the University I learned many of the skills which we previously talked about, including one which I have always been very, very pleased that I I adopted, and that was the ability to read newspapers very quickly indeed.

Arthur Scargill18:41

Ironically, the tutor at Leeds University was a former aide to Winston Churchill, and he was the man who taught me how to do this uh reading of a newspaper very quickly. At the start of the day, if you read the newspapers like that, then when someone rings up from uh a national newspaper or radio or television and asks you about what's in this morning's paper, you you know exactly what they're talking about.

Presenter19:04

It's in the Scargill file.

Arthur Scargill19:06

It's in the Scargo filings.

Presenter19:08

Let's hear your fifth record.

Arthur Scargill19:10

Well, my fifth record have has got something to do with my home life in the sense that um I've talked already about my three wonderful Adel dogs, and uh I suppose most people have had the experience, the tragic experience of of losing one of their dogs, but uh also uh having had the love of that animal.

Arthur Scargill19:28

And I'd love to hear Old Shep sung by Elvis Presley.

Speaker 419:32

When I was a lad

Speaker 419:37

Old Chevrolet

Speaker 419:40

Supply

Speaker 419:42

Over here

Speaker 419:45

And metals with strain

Speaker 419:52

Just a boy and his dog.

Presenter20:01

Old Shep, sung by Elvis Presley with the Immortal Jordan Ayres.

Presenter20:07

Well, Arthur Scargill, you rose quickly through the miners' ranks to become the local delegate and then the youngest ever regional president, president of Yorkshire, then national president, and in many ways the rest is history. But you must surely, during that time, have been tempted to go into politics proper, to try for a seat at Westminster.

Arthur Scargill20:28

No, I haven't. Quite the reverse. I was actually tempted in my younger days when I was fifteen, sixteen, seventeen.

Arthur Scargill20:35

To try for a full-blooded

Arthur Scargill20:37

political career, which would involve standing for the local council, which I did, and eventually hopefully standing for parliament.

Arthur Scargill20:44

And then I made a quite conscious decision to concentrate my work in the trade union movement, and I've never regretted it.

Arthur Scargill20:50

It's interesting to note that I've been offered at least six parliamentary seats during the past fourteen or fifteen years.

Arthur Scargill20:58

And uh I mean that quite seriously, that they were all offers of certain seats, and none of them uh was tempted to take. I've also been offered, of course, uh leading positions in the National Coal Board, and I wasn't t tempted to take those either.

Presenter21:11

But don't you feel in the end that Westminster is where where the real power lies?

Arthur Scargill21:16

Now you promised you weren't going to tell jokes on this programme. No, I don't. In fact, quite the opposite. In real terms, power is uh in the trade union and labour movement, I suppose in the CBI and the Institute of Directors. It's um not really comparable. If you're a backbench MP in Parliament

Arthur Scargill21:36

and you look at the record, they can't get very much done. And that's not to cr criticise them, because they do as well as they're able in the circumstances that present themselves to them.

Arthur Scargill21:47

But unless you're a cabinet minister, then really you're not uh in a situation or a position where you're going to be able to achieve anything. And if you look at the average span

Arthur Scargill21:57

When a person b is in a Cabinet, it's very limited indeed with a few notable exceptions, I suppose including uh certain members of the present Cabinet. But um if you ask someone, for example, who is the MP for so and so constituency, they'll have very great difficulty in telling you. On the other hand, if you ask them who is the President of the NUM or who is the General Secretary of the Transport and General Workers' Union, I've no doubt they'd tell you instantly.

Presenter22:23

Do you believe before the end of this century your kind of Socialist Britain could be achieved?

Arthur Scargill22:28

Well, I'm not a dreamer, but what I am is a realist, and I think that uh it's a certainty that we'll have a socialist system.

Arthur Scargill22:35

The one thing I would never do is to be daft enough to commit myself to say it will occur on such and such a date, or at such and such a time, because I know from experience, not only here, but in many parts of the world, that circumstances can alter quite dramatically, and change things literally overnight.

Arthur Scargill22:54

So all I would say is that the inevitability of Socialism is there for all to see.

Arthur Scargill22:58

Because we can't carry on with a system where we do produce too much food and we put it into a great big warehouses to rot at the same time as we see people die of starvation in the third world, and if for no other reason than that I'm wanting to bring about a world without nuclear weapons, a world of peace, I think that Britain and its people eventually will turn towards a socialist alternative.

Presenter23:21

Your next record.

Arthur Scargill23:22

My next record has nothing to do with my politics, although it is the eighteen twelve overture by Tchaikovsky, but I'd like it played, if I may.

Arthur Scargill23:31

By the Mass Bands from the Minus Concert in Yorkshire.

Arthur Scargill23:35

Because the first time I heard it, I also heard the legendary Paul Ropeson, and I was so struck by the concert itself, but by the eighteen twelve in particular, that it's always remained with me a firm favourite. So the Eighteen Twelve, please.

Presenter24:46

The eighteen twelve overture by Tchaikovsky, played by massed bands from Yorkshire, conducted by Ray Jenkins.

Presenter24:53

Let's talk about the strike the year long minor strike, often called Scargill's strike. Now, as you sit on your desert island, Arthur, and rerun it through your head, which you must have done many times, but you'll certainly do on the island

Presenter25:05

What will you think? What will you think I should have done that differently?

Arthur Scargill25:10

I don't think I would think that I should do anything differently, quite frankly.

Arthur Scargill25:14

And that's not to be bigoted.

Arthur Scargill25:16

If there was one thing that the miners didn't do, it was to take action before they did.

Arthur Scargill25:22

Because all you have to do is to look at the books that have already been written.

Arthur Scargill25:26

by people like Ian McGregor or Peter Walker.

Arthur Scargill25:29

And you can see at an instant that the strike was created deliberately by both the National Coal Board and the Conservative Government.

Arthur Scargill25:37

And I had actually warned, uh in nineteen eighty one, eighty two, that it was the Cull Board and Government's intention to bring about a pit closure programme.

Arthur Scargill25:46

Tragically, not only were there many people outside the mining industry who didn't believe me, including the media, there were also sections of the miners' union who didn't believe me either. They thought I was scaremongering. They thought that I was just merely flying a kite.

Arthur Scargill26:01

I think that the events over the past three or four years have demonstrated that I was absolutely correct.

Presenter26:07

But in the end you and they lost, so something must have been done wrong.

Arthur Scargill26:12

Well, I don't accept that in the end we lost. I think that if you look at the strike itself and take it into context.

Arthur Scargill26:19

I think you'll see that it uh led to.

Arthur Scargill26:22

An inspiration as far as the labor and trade union movement was concerned.

Arthur Scargill26:26

And it's often been said, you know, in history that people have lost things. It was said the suffragettes lost.

Arthur Scargill26:32

But as you and I talk here today, Sue, you know that the suffragettes didn't lose. It was said that the Tallpuddle Martyrs lost, but when we look back we know that the trade union movement in this country and in other parts of the world flourished because of their sacrifice, and I think that eventually we shall see not only the triumph of working people in establishing the right to work.

Arthur Scargill26:53

But we shall see the establishment of Socialism because of, and not in spite of, the minor strike.

Presenter26:58

But it was an enormous pressure. I mean, we know you're a workaholic, but nevertheless you you probably had very little sleep during that time. And this constant pressure. Did you ever quietly, privately, briefly

Presenter27:11

Crack.

Arthur Scargill27:12

Never once. And the reason's a simple ones here.

Arthur Scargill27:17

I believed passionately in what I was doing, and I knew that the cause was absolutely right.

Arthur Scargill27:23

And when I'm sitting on that desert island,

Arthur Scargill27:25

I'll be able to sit back.

Arthur Scargill27:27

under that palm tree, looking out over that beautiful stretch of sand, and say to myself,

Arthur Scargill27:32

What I did was right.

Arthur Scargill27:34

And above all, I never sold out the men.

Arthur Scargill27:37

And I think that recent events have shown that they know very well that Arthur Skiger would never sell them out.

Presenter27:44

But there's uh there's your wife and there's your daughter both walking round bearing this name Scargill, which, as we've said so many times, arouses all these emotions. They must sometimes wish they didn't carry that name.

Arthur Scargill27:55

Well, of course, and they get into some real scrapes with it. I mean, my wife went to the dentist's in the middle of the miners' strike.

Arthur Scargill28:02

And uh she went into the um dentist's chair and

Arthur Scargill28:07

He looked at the card and he said

Arthur Scargill28:09

Scargill?

Arthur Scargill28:10

And she said

Arthur Scargill28:12

Because she uh she had her mouth spragged open with these

Arthur Scargill28:16

Pinces

Arthur Scargill28:17

And he said, Any relation to the man as leader? and she shook her head, and said, No, none whatsoever.

Arthur Scargill28:22

Which I think was prudent on her part at the time.

Presenter28:22

Empty.

Presenter28:24

I caught crude.

Presenter28:26

Shall we have your next record?

Arthur Scargill28:28

Yes, I think it's an appropriate one as well at this stage, because looking back on the minor strike, I think if Edith Pieff was to sing for me, No Regrets, it would epitomise what I feel.

Speaker 428:40

No, no regret No, I will have no regret over things that went wrong For at last I have learned to be strong

Presenter28:57

Ah

Speaker 429:02

Uh

Presenter29:02

No Regrets, sung by Edith Piaff. Now, Arthur Scargill, you're a workaholic, as we've said. You're going to get jolly bored on this island, however ordered you say you're going to be. I take it you're you're not terribly good at lying in the sun.

Arthur Scargill29:16

No, I'm not. Um and in fact if I do go on holiday I want to look around at um things away from the beach.

Arthur Scargill29:23

But um what I'll be doing of course, in addition to building the hut.

Arthur Scargill29:28

and ensuring that I was uh comfortable.

Arthur Scargill29:31

Is planning how to get off an island at some stage.

Arthur Scargill29:35

And so I wouldn't be sitting down doing nothing. I'd be making my plans so that you would have the benefit of my moderate approach back here in Britain.

Presenter29:43

Not

Presenter29:44

As you speak and as you talk about your life, you you display uh an admirable lack, some would say, of self-doubt.

Presenter29:52

What would you say to those people who say, of course, that perhaps being your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness? That you you don't stop and doubt yourself. You often can't listen to criticism. You are single minded.

Arthur Scargill30:07

I would say that's a matter for them to determine, and not for me.

Arthur Scargill30:11

But if the criticism is that I'm single-minded, I plead guilty?

Arthur Scargill30:15

If the criticism is that I don't doubt what I'm doing is right, I plead guilty. And I think it's important that that's understood, because I can accept criticism.

Arthur Scargill30:25

And I obviously discuss things with my colleagues, but once the decision's taken

Arthur Scargill30:30

Then I argue for that and I fight for that decision to the very best of my ability. And I think that's important in politics. I think it's important in trade unionism.

Arthur Scargill30:38

That people understand that they've got someone who's prepared to lead from the front.

Presenter30:43

Your eighth and your final record, please.

Arthur Scargill30:45

Well, as I said to you, obviously I want to get off that island and um

Arthur Scargill30:49

I want to listen to a record uh from Verde's Nabucco.

Arthur Scargill30:53

Chorus of the Hebrew slaves, because that's a signal of what can be done.

Arthur Scargill31:00

When people escape from bondage, and here I am on a desert island, I can escape.

Arthur Scargill31:05

By some means and come back to Britain and uh

Arthur Scargill31:08

Grace your television screens and your radio stations and our newspapers, and bring the message back of why Britain should have a better way of life.

Speaker 431:17

When we come to the end of the day,

Speaker 431:20

So fair and so returned Holy Man, run some joy.

Speaker 431:47

Uh

Speaker 431:49

Uh

Speaker 431:51

On the wheel.

Speaker 431:56

Once again sing the song of a boy.

Presenter32:14

The chorus of the Hebrew slaves from Verdi's Nabucco sung by the Triochi male voice choir. It's a wonderful sound that artist.

Arthur Scargill32:21

Beautiful.

Presenter32:22

So, Arthur, you're sitting on this beach pondering which of these eight records to put on the grammar phone, and then a wave comes along and snatches seven of them away. Which one do you hope it leaves behind?

Arthur Scargill32:35

Without question, the one that would remind me of my mother.

Arthur Scargill32:39

Oh love that will not let me go.

Presenter32:42

And books. You have the Bible. You have the complete works of Shakespeare. What other book would you like to have?

Arthur Scargill32:48

A book that um

Arthur Scargill32:50

Brings back with it memories that was bought for me by my mother.

Arthur Scargill32:53

It's given me enormous pleasure, as I've read it and re-read it over the years.

Arthur Scargill32:58

And it's Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain.

Presenter33:02

And you're allowed one luxury, Arthur. You said you liked your luxuries, you like your creature comforts. It has to be an inanimate object. What is it?

Arthur Scargill33:09

Well, in that case, I would have to say that I'd like a

Arthur Scargill33:13

A little known painting called The Mona Lisa. Could I have it?

Arthur Scargill33:17

Yes but why?

Arthur Scargill33:20

Because I always regarded this painting from a distance as being overrated.

Arthur Scargill33:27

and I used to go over to France quite a bit at one time.

Arthur Scargill33:30

and on one occasion I went to visit the museum.

Arthur Scargill33:34

And I decided I had to see the painting, if for no other reason, that when people asked, I could say yes, I've seen it.

Arthur Scargill33:41

And I went and looked at that painting.

Arthur Scargill33:44

and I suddenly realized what da Vinci had done.

Arthur Scargill33:48

He had painted a masterpiece, probably the greatest painting of all time.

Arthur Scargill33:53

I fell in love with it then and I'm still in love with it now.

Presenter33:57

Arthur Scargill, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 234:08

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/radio four.