Lew Grade

Lew Grade0:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty seven, and the presenter was Michael Parkinson.

Presenter0:30

I know for a fact that our castaway is not going to enjoy life on a desert island. To start with, he thinks that lying in the sun is a waste of time. To be away from his office, the telephone and the ability to make deals is frankly unthinkable. At the age of eighty he's still vigorous, still working, still adding to the folklore surrounding his legendary reputation. For the past fifty years or more he's been at the centre of British show business as an entertainer, as an agent and as a film and television mogul. He is Lord Lewgrade.

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Law Grade, am I right in thinking that you really do hate holidays? I loathe them. Why? Well, work is my holiday.

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I mean to sit in the sun and burn is crazy. I once went on a holiday with my wife.

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for six days and on the third day she says we want to go into Cannes to go shopping. I said I can't leave. I've got to stay in the office for the phone.

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So my hotel room wasn't my office. What's your wife making this? It must put a great deal of money. She supports me all the way.

Lew Grade1:31

See support.

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She's wonderful. Without her support, I'd have been known as the X Champion Charleston dancer.

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Now, what about a typical day? And here you are, you're eighty, you're nearly eighty-one now, still working, still vigorous, as I said. I mean, have you changed the pattern of

Lew Grade1:48

Not at all.

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Earlier on, when I was running ACC and ATV, I used to get to the office about six o'clock.

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Now I get in between seven and seven fifteen in the morning.

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So that I'm able to make phone calls to Hong Kong or Japan or Australia or wherever else. And what is it then that that keeps you going in this way, do you think? I mean, it can't be the money, can it? It's certainly not the money, it's the love of the business. When you see things gel and get together, you get such a.

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A great feeling of satisfaction That's not money money doesn't count.

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What about music? Let's talk about that. You're going to this desert island whether you like it or not, and you're going to have eight records as your company. Now, has music played an important part in your life?

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I met my wife.

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And the first time I heard her sing

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In a repertoire.

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Was low here the gentle lark,

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And I fell in love with her and with the song.

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And that's been one of my favourites ever since.

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That was Lohere, the Gentle Lark, sung by Amelia Gannicochi. I believe, in fact, that when you heard your wife sing that song um not for the first time, but but later on, that in fact she it had rather a different accompaniment than that, didn't it, Lo Grade?

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Yes, it was her closing song in her music hall act.

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and we had a little dog called Cinders.

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and on the closing night, on a Saturday, I would go and pick her up and with her baggage and take her home.

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in my car, and I would hold the little dog Cinders in my hand. Suddenly it jumped out of my hand, ran on to the stage, and my wife wore a bicritoline beautiful dress.

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And the audience were laughing. My wife couldn't understand why they were laughing.

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Eventually she looked down and saw the dog.

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Picked it up.

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and finished up to a a rapturous applause. And I really wanted her to keep it in the act for future, but uh she wouldn't do that.

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Let's go back to the to the very early days. I mean, you were born in Russia. You came over here with your parents when you were six and you moved five and a half. And you moved then into into the East End of London. What what do you remember about about those early days?

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Very difficult and very rough.

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We had no money.

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But we managed.

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My mother and father looked after us. There was myself and my brother. We were there in the East End in Brick Lane for about two years and then we moved up

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to another part of the east end of Bethnal Green, Shoreditch.

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And uh

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I found it very interesting. There were people, um

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all became friends. It didn't matter what denomination you were, and there were many mixed denominations and peoples of all creeds and colours. Made no difference. They were all friends. What about school? Because I imagine, of course, well, certainly when you came here, you couldn't speak the language, could you? I couldn't speak a word of English.

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When I arrived here at five and a half years of age, and the first thing I had alone was Jewish,

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I couldn't go to school till I was eight, by which time I'd mastered enough English.

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I then went to Roshel Street School, and they put me in a class.

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Of the infants.

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There was me eight being with kids of four and five.

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I very quickly progressed and moved into the high class. You were quite a good scholar, weren't you? I was brilliant in mathematics.

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I was infallible in mathematics.

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And that pulled me through. In fact, you won several scholarships, didn't you? Yes, I did, but it was always mathematics that won it for me.

Lew Grade6:38

Yeah.

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I was pretty good at memory.

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You have a photographic memory, I believe. I have a photographic memory and I'm almost a sight reader. That's why even now I read a couple of books in the morning and a script or whatever it is. I get so many sent to me, as you can imagine. Let's have another choice of record.

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My favourite.

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The Chalston

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Why is it your favourite?

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Well, in December nineteen twenty six,

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I entered the World's Charleston Championship at the Royal Albert Hall, and to my surprise I won it.

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and my wife, who is the Senior Vice President of the Royal Albert Hall, found the programme, which says Winner of the World Solo Charleston Championship

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Lou Grade.

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and to my surprise

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Only after looking at the programme now, recently.

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I found that the judges were Charles B. Cochrane and Preda Stair. I would have died if I'd known they were present.

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That was the Charleston. I've got to tell you that we should have been on television because there was the Lord Grade doing his famous steps that won him, in fact, the World Championship. In fact, you invented a step called the crossover, didn't you? That's correct. It's amazing to look back though and to appreciate from this distance in time just how big the Charleston was in those days. I mean, it was more than a giant. It was tremendous.

Lew Grade8:43

It's tremendous.

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When I went on the continent, decided to try my luck in the continent, it was new. I mean, apart from Paris I knew a little about it. But in Germany and in Belgium and uh, you know, in the south of France and all the places that I worked at as a performer,

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They'd never seen it.

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I was a big hit.

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Another choice of record.

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A great star that I was involved in was Elippir.

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When I first heard her I thought she was superb, and I booked her in England.

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and then when I eventually in nineteenth fall here eighth,

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started doing business in America.

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I booked her at the most famous cabra in New York called La Vienne Rose.

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And she sang Je ne regrette erien, I have no regrets, Edie Pieff.

Speaker 39:45

No runa liberator.

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Niga beauty.

Speaker 39:55

Yeah.

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I'm not sure.

Lew Grade10:03

Ria do Ria

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No joined.

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The legends are Edith Piaf and Jeanne Ruggette Riam.

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Uh did you know her well? Very well. Did you? She was a rather tragic figure, wasn't she? Very tragic, and uh uh she was absolutely overwhelmed with the reception that she got in New York because she'd never been to New York and never dreamt that she would go to New York.

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And she'd suffered a terrible loss through the death of Marcel Sedan, who was that great boxer.

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and she missed him terribly.

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And when she came off the

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Everybody threw flowers at her, flowers that were on the table, because nobody b would been prepared to present her with a bouquet except the management one bouquet. And she came off crying. I put my arms round her. She was a little

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Prail little girl

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And she was afterwards went up to her room and she was very happy. She was a wonderful person. A very terrible life she had. Let me talk about somebody else who was in your life at this time, another French uh performer, Django Reinhardt. Now you brought the the hot tub of France over and and

Lew Grade11:06

Yeah.

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Curious of it.

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Looking back at it now, I mean, they were a huge hit on the music halls here, weren't they? Phenomenal. I heard them in Paris, Django Reinhardt and Stephan Grappelli with the Quinted Hot Club de France. And I thought Grapelli was even better than Joe Venuti, who's a very famous

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jazz violinist and Jango Reinhardt, in my opinion, was the best the world had ever known. I was astounded.

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and the reputation of our agency was at that time collision grade.

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I was partners with um Joe Collins, who is the father of Joan Collins.

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We were able to persuade the Stone Group to put them on as the main headliner in Manchester. It was really the first foreign act that we had as a headliner, and they were a sensation.

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And they toured throughout the country, played the palladium, played everywhere.

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You were tremendous hit.

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You've chosen one of their records, what it's been.

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Old Man River.

Lew Grade12:30

Uh

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Hot Club of France, Jago Reinhart, Stephen Grappelli and Old Man River. Stefan of course is your age. He's he's eighty, a young eighty like you are and and still playing, still playing as well as ever, isn't he? Oh, he's great. Hm, he's terrific.

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I had him in several of the Royal Bridge performances and I used to do numerous uh specials for American television and for our network here.

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And I used the for Stefan very frequently. We were very good friends and still are. Now what about the other aspects of of this stage in your career? You were the first agent, in fact, to manage to persuade the the huge American stars of those days to come over and and play the palladium and venues like that. I mean how difficult was it in in the those that were talking about the forties, fifties to bring across somebody like Bob Hope, see?

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Well, I romance his agent.

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for over a year, and his agent kept saying to me

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Bob's too tied up with films and his radio appearances. At that time there wasn't that much television.

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He can't come to England and he doesn't want to go.

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And when I brought Jack Benny over here, I brought his brother-in-law, who is one of the most important business managers in America, with him.

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And he had such a wonderful time, he said, when you next come to California, which was very frequent.

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Come and see me. Me says, I've never had such a wonderful time in my life. I there's not enough that I can do for you. What can I do for you? Anybody you want, you can have.

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I said, Bob Hope. I've been talking to his agent, Louis Scher, for over a year. I can't even get to see Bob Hope. At least I'd like to have a try.

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He said, Come with me.

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His offices were in Rodeo Drive.

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Louis Scher's offices were also in road there though. We walked straight into Louis Scher's office. He had a client with him. Louis Scher said to the client, Excuse me.

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and Mudblum was six foot four and probably that much wide.

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Huge man.

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Tough. Wonderful.

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He said Louis.

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These offices that you're in belong to Claude at Calver.

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Your apartment round the corner belongs to Claudette Colbert.

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I handle all Claudette Culber's business affairs.

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If Lou doesn't see Bob Hope today

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You'll find you have to move from both of them. Do you get the message?

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Luig certainly got the message.

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Phone Panamount Studios, sent me in a car. I got there, arrived at the gate, they directed me to the right stage.

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and I walk on to this huge set, and there I saw a little

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Gentleman sitting on a chair dressed in clerical garb.

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I nodded. I didn't know him.

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And just then Bob Hope came up.

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And said Loo, you know the Reverend Butworth.

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I said, No, I don't. How are you, Reverend Badaworth? Come into the dressing-room.

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I've got a couple of minutes to spare. What can I do for you?

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I said, I want you to play two weeks at the palladium.

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He said, When? I said, June sixteenth and twenty third, whatever the dates were.

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He said, Fine, how much money? I said, Well, the most we can possibly afford to pay is fifteen thousand dollars a week. He says, Fine.

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And that was it and he said we'll give all the money to Reverend Butterworth for the boys' club.

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And that's what we did. It took exactly not even two minutes to get Bob Hope. No contract was signed, no piece of paper.

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He paid for all the stars to come over that supported him, like Madeline Munro and a host of other people, and a group of writers, including Larry Galbert, who's very famous.

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And, um, that's how I got Bob Hope. And then, of course, forever I got Bob Hope. I kept on using him at the palladium and then Sunday night at the palladium and whenever we had a fall out

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Bob Hope

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Well the next choice of record's got to be Bob Hope. What in fact is it? Yep, On the Road to Morocco by Ben Crosby, Dorothy Lamore and Bob Hope.

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Remember the road to Morocco.

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There's so much that's happened in

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This man

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Bob has written lots of books.

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All of them succeed.

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And now that he has learned to write, he's gonna learn to read. Incredible man. Remember the road to Morocco.

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On the Road to Morocco, sung by Bing Crosby, Dorothy Lemour and Bob Hope.

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Lord Grade, let's now talk about your involvement with with television. You were in at the very, very early days of television. W did you see its full potential in back in those days? Were you eager to get in there?

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I had no thoughts of going into television.

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I was a booker for television.

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I booked talent on the Ed Sullivan show. I had Carl Blanche.

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to book up to three acts a week on the Ed Sullivan Show in the United States of America.

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And through a friend of mine, he said to me, Why don't you go into commercial television here?

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I said, where am I going to get three million pounds?

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Anyway, eventually we got the money together and we formed a consortium.

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And we apply for our licence.

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And the full details is rather long and lengthy. And I went into television and I

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felt a great love for it. But but I mean, in those early days it was very dicey, wasn't it, financially? I mean, there was a point, in fact, we nearly went to the middle of the year. We went on the air september twenty second, nineteen fifty five. By April, nineteen fifty six

Lew Grade18:39

Please

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We were all broke.

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All the companies. I mean, there were only two major companies on. That was Green Diffusion, A T V and

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as it was called then, A B C in the Midlands. And um we eventually got um the Daily Mirror Group to put some more money in.

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I had a big borrow, so we put in our contribution.

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and six months later, soon as Manchester came on, or rather Lancashire,

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We then covered seventy per cent of the country.

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and it turned round the neighbours.

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Money came rolling in. The days of license to print money, wasn't it? Well, that was an exaggeration because.

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How do you build companies?

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without spending the money on programmes.

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I mean some people

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like Roy Thompson.

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got a bargain from me. I needed money desperately, and he wanted a whole nine year licence at a million pounds a year. I needed money desperately to pay the bills.

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I agreed.

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If I'd waited two years he would have paid ten million.

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For that's life.

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We fed the money back into programming.

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You also of course at that time too you were one of the first people again in British television to see the for see the p possibility of the American market, weren't you? You did deals there. Well it all started with Robin Hood.

Lew Grade20:13

And what I've

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I made thirty-nine episodes of Robin Hood and took a chance.

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And we sold it in America.

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And it was such a hit we made a hundred and sixty five episodes.

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and made millions of pounds for the company, which went back into further production.

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because then I continued with several more.

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Another choice of record, please, Norgrey.

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Well

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I did a tremendous programme at the Cobben Garden called the Golden Hour.

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and I had an excerpt of Maria

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Callas singing Tosca.

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I would very much like you to play an area by her.

Speaker 320:59

Bracing dream

Speaker 321:03

Love me of brilliant high soft love and love is only take my face in Jesus.

Speaker 321:37

Holy with the name and blessing.

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The area vici dati from Puccini's Tosca sung there by Maria Callas.

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Lawgrade, there are more stories told about you, apocryphal stories about you, than I suppose any other person apart from Noel Coward, I would think. Can I just put a couple to you and and see in fact if they are true or not? There's a there's a famous story about you with your brother Leslie in a restaurant and you're eating in the restaurant and Leslie jumps up and says, Lou, I've forgotten to lock the safe back at the office and you say, Don't worry, we're both here.

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Not true. Not true. What what what are the what are your favorite apocryphal stories about? Well, my my favorite one really is the one about Sidney Bernstein. He's supposed to have gone into Jack Barclay's, the Rolls-Royce dealers, and said, I want a a car like Lou Grade has with a telephone.

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Certainly, mister Bernstein, it'll be six months.

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He said, Don't you realize I'm Sidney Bernstein of Granada?

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I want it within two weeks.

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Okay, mister Bernstein, you'll have it.

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Some little while later I'm supposed to be driving down Regent Street.

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When my telephone rings

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I pick up supposed to pick up the phone. I say hello.

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And s voice says, Lou, this is Sidney Bernstein. I'm just behind you in my car.

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I'm calling you on the phone. I said, Hold on, Sidney, I'm on the other line.

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Of course I didn't even have a phone in my car. Why do you think it is, though, that you attract this kind of uh this l kind of story? Well.

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People make him up.

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I mean, I hear so many stories, like the one about uh a boy is supposed to come up to me and says, Wh what is two and two, sir?

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I and I'm supposed to say, are you buying or selling?

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I wish I could find the people who think up these stories. I'd then have a wonderful scriptwriter for a comedy series. But you don't mind this at all? I don't mind it at all. I mean, it's all open. Some stories are true. Well, what are two then? Tell me what's your favorite story. Well, the true story, I was a very, very important function.

Lew Grade24:03

The same s

Lew Grade24:06

Well

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and because I can't tell you the name

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of the place where this function

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took place you'll probably know where it was.

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And there was Lord Longford and Ted Willis, and they said, Congratulations I just announced that I was going to Jesus of Nazareth.

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And Ted Willis said to me,

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Lou, I bet you can't name the Twelve Apostles I said, Of course I can.

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I said La Paul

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Lou

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Matthew, Thomas

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Then I hesitated. It says, Come on, come on.

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I said, well, I haven't finished reading the script yet.

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That is absolutely true.

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That's another choice of record. When we were running Sunday night at a palladium, we had a fallout, Giuseppe DiStefano.

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and we then got a virtually unknown single.

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called Luciano Pavarotti.

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I would love to hear back to Sorrento sung by him.

Speaker 325:24

Oh, Jesus and I'm in the middle of the day.

Speaker 325:28

Uh

Speaker 225:28

Lost his watch.

Speaker 225:49

Yeah.

Presenter26:14

Pavarotti singing Back to Sorrento

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Lawgrade, you also in a later stage of your life entered the the film industry and and made a certain amount of impact there. Did you enjoy that experience? Yes, I did, because it's an exciting business.

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No one foresaw what was going to happen.

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With films when I started in about 1976.

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There was no cable of any consequence, there were no cassettes.

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No satellites.

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Now it's an entirely different picture.

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It's very difficult to lose money if you make a decent film with all different ancillaries available to the negatives. And negatives are always worth money.

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And I'm very proud of some of the films that I made. I've made some failures, of course. You can't be right all the time.

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Unfortunately, I have a a terrible problem.

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When I read a script,

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of any kind or a book

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I visualize.

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The events of what I'm reading.

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Sometimes it doesn't work out quite how you visualize.

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And all sorts of things happen, like Razor Titanic, which would take three days to explain. What about the future then? I mean, what are you doing now? Are you still involved in in films and television? Yes, I am. I I uh completed recently a film, The Champions, with uh John Hurt based on uh

Lew Grade27:35

Yes, I

Presenter27:43

The Bob Champion story.

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And The Horse Hold and Eattie, which I thought was a wonderful film based on courage.

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It gives people hope.

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You have to fight when you have an illness, when you have any terrible tragedy, you have to fight. I made that film, then I did the Biko Inquest with Albert Finney.

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And I have just finished a very exciting film based on Barbara Cartland.

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Novel.

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Now, you've written this book of yours called Still Dancing, which is your life story. What what does Still Dancing mean?

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Well, it means that I'm still dancing. I'm a Charleston dancer and I dance. And you will find through the book that various incidents

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Where I've gone for a special occasion and they get me onto that stage.

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And they say, We'd like you to dance at Charleston. I say, No, I don't dance without the Charleston music. And before I know it, the conductor has waved his batten.

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And they stop playing the Charleston and I do the Charleston. Final choice of record.

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Well, I've had a very close relationship with the Beatles.

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I first put him on a Royal Variety Show with my brother Bernard Elfont.

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at the Prince of Al Sedre, and then immediately booked them for the following Sunday for Sunday night at the palladium, and there were a funeral. And I'd love to finish with I'll get by with little help from my friends sung by the Beatles.

Speaker 229:09

What would you think if I sang out it too? Would you stand up and walk out on me?

Speaker 229:18

Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song And I'll try not to sing out a key Oh I get by the little help

Speaker 229:30

My good highlight

Speaker 229:35

They try with a little help

Presenter29:40

The Beatles, and I'll get by with a little help from my friends. Lord Grade, like it or not, you're now on now on this desert island, and you have your eight records. You have to imagine that seven are swept away, and you're left with one. Which would it be? It has to be Low here, Gentlelark.

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Because it'll k bring my wife near to me. And what about the book? Assume you've got the Bible and the works of Shakespeare on the island.

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The book I would choose would be the book that was given me by my school as a prize, called The Antiquary by Sir Walter Scott.

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It was the most boring book I'd ever started to read. I never could finish it. Now, if I was stuck on a desert island, I'd eventually finish it, by which time I hope my wife will have arranged a search party to rescue me. What about the luxury object, inanimate? Naturally, a crate of Monte Cristo cigars.

Presenter30:41

Lord Grey, thank you very much indeed.

Presenter30:44

Thank you.

Lew Grade30:51

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk/radio four.