Jacques Loussier

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty seven, and the presenter was Michael Parkinson.

Presenter0:31

A Castaway is a musician who won fame and fortune by inventing a style which blended classical and jazz music. With a series of albums he proved that Johann Sebastian Bach was one of the great swingers in musical history. The records have been bestsellers worldwide for nearly thirty years, and he's still playing concerts with his new Playbach trio. He is Jacques Lussier.

Presenter0:51

Jacques, would you be any good on this, says Etalen? I mean, in the sense are you a practical man?

Jacques Loussier0:56

I'm very practical in terms of uh natural instinct uh things. The only problem I will probably face is that uh I don't like to stay alone too long. You don't? But no, not really. I like the

Presenter1:08

But

Jacques Loussier1:10

Brotherhood, I like the to be with people, I like to share with somebody or different people. And uh that will be the the main question. So my question will be how long do I have to stay in this island? Well, it could be forever, I'm sorry.

Presenter1:25

So forever.

Jacques Loussier1:26

Will you try to escape? Mm oh yes, I will certainly try to do any anything to escape, so I will probably try to it depends what I will find on this island.

Presenter1:36

Could you make a boat? Are you practical in that sense?

Jacques Loussier1:38

Yes, I think I I would be maybe not exactly a boat, but uh what we call a rado and just a few pieces of rough rough

Presenter1:44

Rough.

Presenter1:46

A good

Jacques Loussier1:46

Could you cook, could you fish, and that's

Presenter1:47

True.

Jacques Loussier1:48

I will certainly try to survive, this will be my main interest.

Presenter1:54

So what about your first record then? What what what is that? Is that a favorite record or is that a memory?

Jacques Loussier1:59

Mr President, because uh it reminds me the the time when I just started to play piano. I was uh ten years old and uh after three years of practice and uh I've been uh presented to one of the major French uh pianists who was uh Yves Nat and this man was a real genius of the piano. I mean he was playing so well and uh he was great names in France a long time ago. And then uh he was my teacher in the Conservatory of Paris and I remember the first piece I played to him was the Seine d'Anphant Schumann, Children's Scenes, and um he just showed me how to play the first uh Les Payle Montin and uh since I just fell in love with my teacher of course because he was playing piece so simple and so well that uh that gave me a lot of ideas how to achieve, to try, to approach the marvellous way of playing that he was playing.

Presenter3:58

It's the opening part of Scenes from Childhood by Schumann, played by Yves Nat.

Presenter4:03

Jacques, was it a musical family that you came from, were your mother and father musical?

Jacques Loussier4:07

My mother used to play violin and my father used to sing in choirs, but uh they were not especially musical and uh I just started to play piano because my sister, who was uh older than I, just played piano before me. So my mother asked me one day if I wanted to play piano. As my sister was playing piano, I was also very keen to play piano, of course. And uh uh they've noticed that I was a bit gifty in this instrument because after three months playing piano I was exactly the playing the same things that my sister was uh playing for four years. So they've discovered that I had some kind of possibilities in playing piano and that was the real start of uh the the the they pushed me uh strongly in that direction and I I thank them for that because it's kind of like

Speaker 44:28

Uh

Presenter4:54

Can you it it interests me to to meet somebody like yourself who who has this just a gift with an instrument. Can you explain it? I mean, when the first time you sat at a piano, did you understand everything about it?

Jacques Loussier5:05

Uh something funny. The first time I've seen a piano and I sat on the piano.

Jacques Loussier5:11

Uh it's it's fantastic for a child. I mean when you're just ten years old you you're not exactly a child, but you're not exactly uh well, y you're in between things. You are very interested in the the shape and you try to understand how it works. I was very attracted by the mechanism, I was very attracted by the sound coming out of each key that you had to push to make that sound and and um I must say that nearly instantly I understood all what was going on and I was at ease to to put my hand on in the piano. Not real I never faced very much of difficulties in in practicing or in in in playing.

Speaker 15:30

Yeah.

Jacques Loussier5:51

And I would say that the

Jacques Loussier5:54

I love to play piano because this is a physical instrument. I mean all instruments are n but this is something which corresponds probably to my personality and to my uh physical aspect.

Jacques Loussier6:07

Another choice of record.

Jacques Loussier6:10

Ah, yes, that's part of the second movement of the Ravel Concerto for piano, played by Saint-Son-François.

Presenter7:18

Part of the second movement of Ravel's piano concerto in G, the soloist there was Samson Francoise.

Presenter7:24

Jacques, can I just go back for a moment to that question about being gifted as a pianist? Because it seemed to me what you said was interesting, that you you felt that you were made for the piano in a sense. But what you didn't explain, and probably you can't explain, is that there is something almost mystical, I believe, in in a great gift like that. There's something that you I suppose you cannot explain, that's what I'm saying.

Jacques Loussier7:42

Well, there could be another explanation. If you believe in reincarnation, I would say that uh that could be uh also uh a good explanation. And I I have other reasons why I tell you this. Because not only I have a lot of gift to play the piano, but uh the first time I've uh read a partition, uh music, uh partition from Bach.

Jacques Loussier8:07

I really found this music simple, easy.

Jacques Loussier8:12

Uh at the contrary of uh all the the the the musi musicians were always saying that bar is very complicated, it's difficult to play, difficult to remember, to remind uh the complication of fugues and preludes and everything mixed up in your memory. And for me, bar is the simplest thing in the world. And something so funny, it was a complete uh natural instinct.

Jacques Loussier8:37

who led me to improvise with Bach. And I o always remember during a contest in the Conservatory of Paris, I was playing a fugue from Bach, and there was all the teachers listening to to me. And in the middle of the fugue I just got lost. But I didn't stop. I just started improvising in the style of Bach.

Jacques Loussier8:56

And I was just trying to improvise. They were laughing because they said, My God, Lucier is dang is dang. He's crazy So I was just playing, playing, and it's going, My God, I got I have to find the end of the the the piece because I'm not going to improvise for one hour.

Jacques Loussier9:12

So I just suddenly in my memory came back some uh lights and I found the last chord and I finished very seriously the piece of bar which I have played half of it was my invention. But but how then therefore do you explain then the reincarnation theory? This is where I come to the the this fact. I've been very gifty to to play the instrument and also very gifted to speak German. I nearly never learned to speak German and I speak nearly fluently.

Presenter9:27

The soul.

Jacques Loussier9:42

Where do that knowledge come from? Uh I have no explanations. And on the piano is is something fantastic because if I tell you that I nearly never practice the piano, you won't believe. But I've already got the knowledge in my hands. It's easy for me. Uh and I can't explain that uh with the natural explanation, because the natural explanation would be that I have to work six hours a day to do what I do on the piano. But many times I remember that I've been stopping playing piano for four months.

Jacques Loussier10:14

doing a lot of other things without playing piano and not even practicing and I just gave a concert.

Jacques Loussier10:20

With uh just uh a half hour rearcing in the afternoon, just to get your finger a bit uh

Jacques Loussier10:27

In good shape for the concert and that was it. And in the second half I was really at ease to play another two, three hours without any problems.

Presenter10:34

Yeah.

Presenter10:35

That's fascinating. Could we have another choice of music, please, Sharon?

Jacques Loussier10:37

Oh yes, one of my favorite records and because of my special position in the island, I would like to wake up with the third movement of the third Brande Boe concerto by Bach.

Presenter11:49

Part of the third movement from Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. Three, the English concert directed by Trevor Pinnock. Why the ancient instruments? I mean what's the fascination of them?

Jacques Loussier11:59

Uh

Jacques Loussier12:00

First of all, the pitch is different.

Jacques Loussier12:03

Because ancient instrument uh plays with the A at uh not even four forty but uh three eighty or three ninety something under the normal pitch, which makes the the strings uh sounding more uh deep, profound. The sound is a bit different. See a bit bigger sound. The pitch is perfect for for this kind of music. On top of that, they don't uh vibrate on instruments, which is a very different way to approach music. And uh that gives the swing of Bach. If you listen to that piece without drums or with without any adjustment, just the way it is played, it swings by itself and there is absolutely it's an easy piece. And to wake you up in the morning, to warm you up and you can make your physical exercise, you can make whatever you want with this music. You you just think or you act or you do something, but you

Speaker 412:24

Yeah.

Jacques Loussier12:53

You can't stay without doing nothing and listening to this music. I mean, it it moves you somewhere. Does Bach swing more than any other composer? Yes. This is m well, because this is for two reasons. The first one he adjusts the the beat uh and the perfect uh position, I mean the important beat of the the the the bars just come in the right position and the way uh the the music is written down allows it it it bounces by itself. The all the melodic lines are not uh always uh and if they are straight, there is under something which makes the the the thing bouncing. So the the two things together make that the music swings by itself. Do you think that that Bach had he been alive would have approved what he did to his music? I think that if Bach would have been alive in our days he would not only approve what I've done with his music, but he will be in in the top fifties or top twenty because uh he he he is uh a genius. He was a a real genius, so there is no doubt about it.

Presenter13:01

Mm-hmm.

Presenter13:51

A a silly question, but but one with with a kind of a sort of serious purpose. Do you think that Bach, if were he alive today, would he play at Ronnie Scott's club?

Jacques Loussier13:51

Uh

Presenter13:58

Yeah.

Jacques Loussier13:58

Certainly. Because he was interested in any kind of new instruments development and quality. And he was also very interested in mechanic things. He was interested in all the the the progression of the discoveries of new instruments, the progression of the technique of the horns, uh trompet, trombone, all those instruments were uh brand new at the at this time and they were playing without uh tubes. They it was very complicated to play and he was always interested in searching and finding new way of expression. So he would have been the first one to know about synthesizers. He would have been the first one to to be in the chart. Uh I'm ab absolutely sure. And it will be he was such genius that he could perfectly at the same time play classical, play jazz, play rock, play anything, because when you are a musician you can play any kind of music. Good music, of course.

Presenter14:50

Another choice of record, please, yacht.

Jacques Loussier14:53

Well, I think we come to handle for a change because that's the same period.

Jacques Loussier14:58

The same composers nearly, they've been uh living the same time. I love this music, especially this, A Child Is Born.

Speaker 415:12

Design is terrible.

Speaker 415:19

Once the joy is born, once a valley's born sun is clear.

Speaker 415:31

Oh sun is near, up to home, up to home, the sun is near, the sun is near, then the government can be upon his shore.

Speaker 416:01

Mighty God, the everlasting son, the Prince of Peace.

Presenter16:10

For unto us a child is born from Handel's Messiah, the choir of Christchurch Cathedral, Oxford, with the Academy of Ancient Music.

Presenter16:18

Jacques, you've been playing playbach now for on and off for what, nearly thirty years, I suppose, haven't you? And been a huge success all over the world.

Speaker 116:23

Left.

Presenter16:27

There was a point though, in fact, I think 1980 when you you actually stopped and you changed direction. Why was that?

Jacques Loussier16:34

In fact, this is very simple, what did happen to me in the nineteen eighties. When I was playing bar, I've started to play bar and give concerts all over the world. I think I've probably gave more than one thousand eight hundred concerts, or maybe two thousand concerts.

Jacques Loussier16:50

In the same time, I was also composing, because in the same time I I am a composer. So I was very busy in touring, doing a lot of things. And of course the success appeals to success and uh brings success and when you start touring, well you do country, another and finally you you tour too much. And uh your music, my my music, becomes uh number two in my preoccupations. And after b been touring for twenty years, ni nearly, yes, I just realized that I needed and I wanted to slow down and even to to stop a bit playing bar for a little while and to concentrate a bit more of what I was really very interested in uh searching of my identity, my uh music. And then I've stopped

Speaker 117:31

Bye.

Jacques Loussier17:47

giving concerts with Bach, which doesn't mean that I don't like Bach any more, uh I still loving Bach. But I wanted to express myself in a very different way and I've been doing such uh experimentation with a drummer and I've uh issued a record called uh Pulusion uh which was uh my compositions with uh drummer. Okay, so I've done that. And then I've gotten uh also interested in using synt synthesizers and I have done another record called uh Pagan Moon, which uh I played also in concerts in this country and in France and other places. And uh this uh has been doing for I've done that for nearly six, seven years. And then I had the opportunity of the third centenary of Bach's birthday in eighty five three hundred.

Jacques Loussier18:41

And uh uh I was um in the mood to to play uh Bach, but not being my first uh interest in life, but my second after my compositions.

Presenter18:52

Another choice of record, please.

Jacques Loussier18:53

Now I like to play some jazz because I love the music of jazz and especially one of my favorite jazz group which uh I've been listening in the fifties, fifty four, fifty five. That was the modern jazz quartet at this time and they were very famous because John Lewis, the pianist, was one still my uh one of my favorite uh jazz pianists. This is the perfect example of somebody who hasn't got any piano technique at all. He just plays with three or four fingers. But what he does, this is the maximum efficiency with the minimum of of work. It's it's fantastic, man. And uh one of the best piece which really I fell in love uh thirty years ago is the Django by the modern jazz quartet.

Presenter20:43

There was a modern jazz quartet and jango.

Presenter20:47

Jacques, you you mentioned that John Lewis was one of your favorite uh jazz pianists, uh and I see that you picked for your next uh uh record you picked an Errol Garner record. Would Garner be similarly a a favorite of yours?

Jacques Loussier20:57

Yes, because John Lewis, I would say, he's a an intellectual jazz musician. And Gardner is a beast, jazz musician. Beast. Oh yes, really. He is a thing that uh white people never will have. This is this sort of fantastic power of swing, this fantastic uh ability to be uh completely physical on the piano and that uh it you have a you receive an impression uh really which moves you out of your shoes. I like this uh Gardner for that.

Presenter21:08

This

Speaker 421:08

Yeah.

Presenter21:32

And what what what about the the choice of uh of Ghana tune? What what have you picked? That's my kick.

Presenter22:40

It's the one and only Errol Garner. That's my kick. Jacques Lucy enjoyed that. We both did. Jacques, a strange thing comes up in research here. You must be the only Frenchman with a vineyard who doesn't drink.

Jacques Loussier22:54

Well, no, no, I I drink now, but I used uh that's right, I used to to to stop drinking for a period of five years. Uh absolutely nothing to do with my physical conditions or any medical advice. No, that was just uh I just wanted to to test my real will if I was able to uh do such things, because this is something I like very much to drink. But when I say I like to drink, don't think that I'm a drinker in a way that I get drunk. I never get drunk and I I drink normally. But I just wanted to test if I was able to do it, just uh for fun. And I've stopped for five years, but uh after those five years I realized that it was very good to come back to drink normally, uh as I always did. But uh you appreciate better. I think this is something that uh uh it it uh creates uh desire to drink again, to taste wine, which is something in your life which is very interesting to taste good wines and I think it's always good.

Presenter23:50

Tis it okay.

Presenter23:51

And of course you also have at your at your chateau, you have a uh a recording studio, don't you? Which is very

Jacques Loussier23:58

Yes, that's right. I have had uh to start the Pink Floyd and then I had uh one uh The Cure, Shadis, Pando Ballet, a lot of the new church, Shack Attack, uh yes, Elton John also. And uh well, uh they seem to be very comfortable and uh uh the only problem I face now is that I can't uh record in my studio anymore because it's booked up to to June next year, so this is ridiculous, but uh I like that very much and uh uh I think they feel also in Provence uh everyone feels the the the calm of the nature and uh the affinity of people with the the good surrounding is very important and because they go jogging, you know, this is uh two thousand acres uh without uh it's wild, it's marvelous because then you jog every morning and then uh come to work, it it's a nice approach to create.

Presenter24:11

And

Presenter24:49

Sounds like

Presenter24:53

You've also of course it's been it's you've mentioned all the groups you've had there, but it was also a part of the creation of pop history because in fact Pink Floyd recorded one of their most successful albums there.

Jacques Loussier25:03

They recorded a part of it because I think they've spent uh twelve months in recording uh the war. And uh I remember they spent two months in Miradal because they loved the place also. And uh Roger Waters uh was very fond of uh tennis, so we played together many, many times. He's a very good fellow. I like him very much. So a chosen

Presenter25:23

Yeah.

Jacques Loussier25:24

Yeah.

Presenter25:24

Uh

Jacques Loussier25:24

It's free.

Presenter25:24

Brong

Jacques Loussier25:24

The wall. Yes, please.

Speaker 425:29

All in all it was, it all just breaks in the wall.

Presenter25:56

Pink Floyd and part of The Wall.

Presenter25:59

Jean-Lucia, so what about the future then? I mean, what's gonna happen? You've got a new record out of Reflections at Bach. You're doing a bit of touring, I suppose, and and composing. So very much the mixture as before, I suppose.

Jacques Loussier26:10

I think so, absolutely. I think that uh those next years to come I will share uh my time in composing and uh I really want to compose a lot. I really have a anger to compose. I I want to and I really it's a it's a necessity for me because uh those last ten years it has been a period uh bit difficult in my life when I've not spent enough time in the music uh side. I mean so I want to to now to really explore uh much more uh because I think uh the creator gave me a fantastic gift, so I've got to pay him back now in giving some kind of good music, I hope.

Presenter26:52

Well, it's been interesting actually um listening to your choice of music, because we've actually ranged right the way through all your interests, haven't we? We've gone from the classical to to jazz to to to pop, all of which uh you've you've worked in and and been involved with. Your last choice is the Beatles. Why is that?

Jacques Loussier27:07

Well, because I really consider that um what we call the classical music and uh the following of the classical music, what they call serial or dodacaphonic music or all this music is not for my opinion, and my opinion, this is not the continuation of the classical music. The continuation of the classical music is the Beatles for me.

Speaker 427:28

Myth

Jacques Loussier27:29

Yes, because if you consider that the when the music which is now uh classical, when that was composed, it was not uh classical, it was just uh normal uh popular music, because there were uh songs uh out of it which were sung in the streets. I mean this this is not nothing that uh suddenly uh was classical, it was just popular and normal. And uh the the Beatles came out about twenty-five years ago and when they started to compose, they, form my opinion, they are the real continuation of the classical music. Because this the cl the music must be popular. The music is something which is something simple that you don't need to learn or to practise to understand. There is nothing to understand, you just got uh to feel it. And to feel things must be simple. Simplicity is very much much more difficult to achieve than difficulties. And I would say I've noticed in our days, in in our time and centuries, that it's uh sometimes so easy uh to to make difficult instead of making things simple. So which Beatles song have you chosen? Well, my favorite is I I love many, many songs of Beatles, but I must say that yesterday is a fantastic uh genial uh piece.

Speaker 428:51

Something wrong now I long for yesterday, yesterday

Speaker 429:02

Love was such an easy game to play.

Speaker 429:07

I need a place to hide away Oh I believe in yesterday

Presenter29:19

Paul McCartney and yesterday. Chat Lussier, you're now on this desert island. You have to imagine that a tidal wave comes along and it it wipes away seven of your records. You're left with one, the one you'd want to keep, which would be

Jacques Loussier29:33

Well, I I will keep the bar, Brandon Book Concerto No. three, for a very simple reason, because if I'm in such a bad position, I need a lot of energy to face reality, and this will give me the energy I need.

Presenter29:49

Assume you have the works of Shakespeare and you have the Bible there. What's the book?

Jacques Loussier29:53

My look Book is some s

Presenter29:54

Thing a

Jacques Loussier29:54

Boom. Nobody really knows the this book. It's uh Man or Men because it's a plural Beasts and Gods. It has been written by a Russian author and uh translated into English in the years nineteen twenty, something like that, after the russian revolution. And this book is uh just the life of this man for a period of three, four years. And when you read that, this is the most uh adventurous book that I never heard of. And uh it gives you a fantastic always energy but hope that in any case, in any situation, even in bad situations, there is always a little bit of hope. And this for me is the the little light which just uh comes up and when you really need it. And that book will help a lot because then when you read this book you you can't understand why this man doesn't die uh instantly after all the the adventurous thing that happens to him. So I like to have this w to give me hope to get out of this island as quickly as possible. The luxury object.

Jacques Loussier31:09

I will take a piano. You you said inanimate ob object. So it's inanimate. You have to animate it yourself. And in this I think I'm quite uh at ease to do it and uh I will be pleased to spend my time in uh exercising my fingers for a change.

Speaker 131:13

So

Speaker 431:15

Yeah.

Jacques Loussier31:27

Jean-Lucier, thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

Presenter31:29

Yeah.

Speaker 131:37

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.