Johnny Mathis

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty seven, and the presenter was Michael Parkinson.

Presenter0:28

My castaway is the only man I know who sold in excess of a hundred million records and also cleared six feet five and a half inches in the high jump.

Presenter0:36

Indeed, at one point he had to choose between an Olympic trial and a career in show business. He chose the latter, and the result, as they say, is history. For more than twenty five years he has been one of the world's most popular singers. He is Johnny Mathis.

Presenter0:49

Johnny, you've been coming to Britain now for what, thirty years, I suppose? It's very much your second home here, isn't it?

Johnny Mathis0:54

Yeah, I enjoy Great Britain a great deal, and uh of course the reason I I come is because of the people. I've had a a great rapport with uh the British people for a very long time and and uh it's a great treat for me to come here and it is very much a home away from home for me.

Presenter1:11

What about the the the fans? I mean, have have you kept the same fans over the thirty years? Have have you seen them grow old?

Johnny Mathis1:17

Yeah.

Presenter1:17

Yeah. Yeah.

Johnny Mathis1:18

Absolutely. I've had the the same appreciation society for oh, I guess maybe fifteen, twenty years now. And uh I see them constantly standing outside the hotels and in the restaurants that I go to and of course uh at the concerts.

Presenter1:34

Now this desert island that you're going to go on. I mean to start with, are you going to enjoy being on a desert island? I mean do you like being alone?

Presenter1:41

Uh

Johnny Mathis1:41

I like being alone a lot. In fact, when I'm not working, I I spend a lot of time alone. Of course, I play a lot of golf, but that's in a way being alone. It's a sport that that you have to do yourself. It's not a team sport. And when I'm home, I spend a great deal of time in my home doing absolutely nothing sometimes. And I had to learn that. It's it's not easy to learn to do nothing. But I have a a wonderful friend who helps me out uh in my work, Maxine Sibley. And uh one day we were working in Lake Tahoe, which is a beautiful place in the mountains between California and Nevada. And uh we had a lovely home on the lake.

Johnny Mathis2:22

And I was busy inside doing something and came out on the terrace and she was sitting there and she wasn't reading and she wasn't doing anything. I said, What are you doing? She says, Absolutely nothing. I said, How do you do it? She says, Well, I'll teach you. So over the years

Presenter2:38

She's taught me how to do that. Well, you're baggies of town to do that on your desert island. Now, all you've got there are your records. So, what what's the first choice of of music?

Johnny Mathis2:41

Yeah.

Presenter2:47

Yeah.

Johnny Mathis2:47

Yeah. Well, I listen to absolutely everything and I love all kinds of music. Um cowboy music, uh rhythm and blues. I grew up listening to a lot of rhythm and blues and strangely enough a lot of classical music.

Johnny Mathis3:01

But uh that doesn't answer your question, okay.

Johnny Mathis3:04

I'm a big fan of Roberta Flack and anything she does. She there are a few people who sing, people that I've grown up listening to, like Ella Fitzgerald, Sara Vaughan, Nat King Cole, Peggy Lee, and Roberta Flack is in that same company. Whatever they do, they do it very, very well. So I've chosen one of her songs.

Speaker 33:25

Oh yours put me to the test.

Speaker 33:29

No

Speaker 33:31

My specialty.

Speaker 33:34

And I know what to do to make you give your love to me For real life celebration And a standing ovation

Speaker 33:46

I'm the one.

Speaker 33:48

Like a hundred benches drumming, baby I can keep it coming.

Presenter3:55

Roberta Flack and I am the one.

Presenter3:58

Johnny, do you come from a

Johnny Mathis3:59

A musical background.

Johnny Mathis4:00

Well, my father was a pretty good pianist and a very good singer.

Johnny Mathis4:05

Raising seven kids, of course, he didn't get a chance to be heard very much outside the home. But he played at home every night that I can remember. We had an old beat up piano that he bought and uh actually had to dismantle it to get it in the house. Every day uh he'd try to teach me a new song, just songs that he knew.

Speaker 24:25

Just

Johnny Mathis4:27

And uh that's the background I came from. My brothers and sisters all loved music.

Johnny Mathis4:31

But not so much in the way that I did. I was I was fascinated by it. And anybody who who made music I was I was interested in. What kind of music f fascinated you at at that time? I remember I had uh uh just piles and piles of records by Nat King Cole, Peggy Lee, Sura Vaughan, Lena Horn, Sammy Davis, uh Billy Eckstein and uh Billy Holliday.

Johnny Mathis4:57

Some of it I didn't understand. For instance, I didn't really like Billie Holiday until later on. I couldn't get past the rough edges of her voice. I liked a a prettier voice. Uh but as I learned what singing was all about, I I began to understand why people felt the way they did about her, what love that they had for her.

Presenter5:18

Do you actually go to a singing teacher?

Johnny Mathis5:19

Yes. I studied in school I sang in lots of choirs and then at the age of thirteen I started studying privately classical music.

Johnny Mathis5:30

Not to become a classical singer, just to learn to sing properly. My father felt that if, in fact, I took some classical lessons, my voice would be in good shape all of my life. And he was absolutely right. The best thing I ever did was to learn to sing properly so that you don't abuse your voice. What kind of voice is yours? It's not a tenor voice, is it? Well, the voice changes over the years, and I started out with a very high voice. I used to sing soprano parts in the choir that the girls couldn't sing. And then I developed into a light tenor, just a little bit above a baritone. And now I would say that my voice is a high baritone. Right, let's have another choice of records. Okay. I travel a great deal and I carry a a satchel of tapes. This particular prelude to Tristan and the Solda is by George Salty and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter7:28

That was part of the prelude of Tristan and Solda.

Presenter7:31

Played by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Schulte.

Presenter7:35

Johnny, you had at this this time when you were studying to be a a singer. You also had a very promising athletic career, didn't you, going? How did that start?

Johnny Mathis7:42

Well, I guess most young kids uh get involved in athletics. We had to get involved because that was part of our school system. Uh we had to run and jump and take these gymnastic classes and what have you. And I just sort of could jump a little higher than than most of the other boys. So uh over the years I developed into um a promising high jumper uh as far as I had some Olympic aspirations.

Johnny Mathis8:09

But I had a problem with my lower back and for a jumper it it was the kiss of death really. There were many times that I participated in athletic competitions where I was really in agony.

Johnny Mathis8:22

So I was really, really looking for an excuse to to get out of athletics as soon as possible. And then of course, at the age of nineteen, I had an opportunity to go to the Olympic trials as a high jumper. They were being held in Berkeley, California.

Johnny Mathis8:38

And then that same week I got a telegram from this man, George Avakin, at Columbia Records in New York, saying that uh he'd like me to come back to New York and and and record.

Johnny Mathis8:50

And that was my big excuse. I I loved it. I was so happy that I didn't have to go to the Olympic trials. So you've not regretted it then? I haven't regretted it, no, but I I had a lot of fun and I met a lot of people along the way. One of my best friends to this day is uh a guy by the name of Bill Russell, who is a an outstanding American basketball player. In fact, he was voted the greatest basketball player of all time very recently by the players.

Presenter9:14

But how did you get spotted by the guy who made you the the record offer? What were you doing at that time? You were playing clubs and things?

Johnny Mathis9:20

I was working these beer and wine clubs in San Francisco and

Johnny Mathis9:26

I had had a degree of success for maybe five years in in working clubs, just uh during the summertime when I was in in school.

Johnny Mathis9:37

He happened to be in town one day and the lady who was handling me at the time she was uh

Johnny Mathis9:43

One of the

Johnny Mathis9:45

Local characters in San Francisco. She owned a couple of jazz clubs, but she didn't let me sing in her clubs because she didn't want me to be a jazz singer. She wanted me to be a pop singer. So she had a cousin. His name was George Ivakin. And he came to town regularly during the summer to visit his sister. And she knew this, so she had him come listen to me. He heard me sing once when I was 18, and he said that he liked what he heard, but I needed more whatever you need when you're 18, more experience. And he said he'd come back the next summer and see me. And sure to his word, he did. He came back a year later and he said, Okay, I think it's time now. Let's make some records. That was a stop. That was my start. And the first record I made was a jazz album, really, that is now a collector's item. That means it didn't sell any.

Johnny Mathis10:36

But it did introduce me to a man by the name of Mitch Miller, and that's when we started to make pop records. Let's have another choice of record. I was greatly influenced by Ella Fitzgerald, not only by her beautiful voice, but the great artistry that she sang and still sings with. She hasn't been well lately, and I'm sure all the people that have loved her wish her well. She appeared in a couple of movies, and in the one that I chose, Pete Kelly's Blues, she sings the title song.

Speaker 311:07

You hide yourself behind a prayer

Speaker 311:15

The blues will come and they'll find you there

Speaker 311:23

I'm Eela Blues.

Speaker 311:27

They call Pelle's blue

Speaker 311:35

That new

Speaker 311:39

Uh

Presenter11:39

Pete Kelly's Blues sung by Alpha Fitzgerald. I always think when you hear Alafitz Gerald sing a song, John, I don't know if you feel the same way that you can't imagine anybody singing it better.

Johnny Mathis11:47

Absolutely. I don't think anybody can sing any better than than Elifitz Stroll. And then you listen to Sara Von and you say, Well, nobody sings better than her. That's right.

Presenter11:55

When when you were at this point in your career where you started making records with M Mitch Miller, did you have any clear policy?

Presenter12:03

About what kind of song you're going to sing.

Johnny Mathis12:06

Not really. And it goes back to the fact that I like all kinds of music. There was a guy, Tony Bennett, there. There's a guy, Damone. I'd listened, of course, to Nat Kinkole. And those were the types of singers that I liked. And I liked the songs that they sang. They were literate. You could understand them. The thing I didn't want to do was, oh, novelty songs like that. I didn't want to get involved in that. And I thought maybe that's what they had in mind for me. But in fact, what happened is that Mitch Miller gave me a just a big stack of records, demonstration records, and some lead sheets and said, pick out three, I think he said, because I have one. And you choose three. So I chose a song called When Sonny Gets Blue. Then I chose a song called Wonderful, Wonderful.

Johnny Mathis12:56

And he had one that he had written called It's Not For Me to Say. And then I met a guy who had a song called Warm and Tender. His name was Bert Bachrach. He was sitting in a little room with a piano, and that's what he did all day. He just sat there and and wrote songs. And he wrote that one. And that's basically how I I made my first recordings.

Presenter13:18

Another choice of record.

Johnny Mathis13:20

Well, I had the pleasure of working with Count Basie on two or three occasions. Uh he was a wonderful man, lots of fun. But the fascinating thing about him was his music and and his band and the fact that he kept his band together for so many years when bands were were out of style and what have you. Basie still kept his band together. And uh to this day I still have my album of Boardy Bird.

Presenter14:43

There was Willibird the Count Basiband, and our castaway is Johnny Mathis.

Presenter14:47

Johnny, have you ever ever had any problems with your voice in all the years you've been touring and singing?

Johnny Mathis14:53

I really have been very lucky over the years and haven't had major problems. There have been times when my voice was tired and I pushed to go on performances and it's shown up. But there was a time when my schedule was so heavy, in fact, I was doing four and five shows a night. And I found myself going to different doctors in New York. And one time I went to a doctor who really absolutely gave me an injection that made me feel like a million dollars. And I started to go to him on a regular basis. And it turns out that, in fact, what he was giving me was amphetamines. And over a period of about five years, I went to him and really got to a point where I needed the injections as opposed to just getting them on occasion. You're addicted. I was addicted completely. But his whole philosophy was that, in fact, what he said he was giving me and the President of the United States, John Kennedy, was a patient. There are many people who went to him. I used to see people like Truman Capote sitting in the office. And it was amazing. That was before people recognized and knew what amphetamines were and how they affected the brain. And what happened eventually is that I ended up in the hospital in California. And the doctors, after extensive tests, asked me if I was taking any medication. I said, no, I was taking vitamin injections on occasion. That's what you thought they were? That's what I thought they were, yeah. And they said, do you have any? So I gave them the vial of injections that the doctor had given me.

Presenter16:23

That's what I

Johnny Mathis16:30

And they analyzed it and found out exactly what it was. And that started a whole big thing as far as the doctor was concerned. And over the years, there were many, many people who wanted him disbarred. And finally, they did disbar him. I was very fortunate. I went to the hospital and stayed for about three or four days, and that was it. I was fine. But a lot of people who went to him never did get off those amphetamines, and it's ruined their lives.

Presenter16:56

Yeah.

Presenter16:57

He he was became a celebrated figure, didn't he? His name was Dr. Fieldgood, wasn't that was the the name that they gave him, the patient.

Johnny Mathis17:05

He was very celebrated. In fact, you know, I used to help him out at the office. I'd go to to concerts. Uh these famous people would come to people like Judy Garland and Eddie Fisher and Elizabeth Taylor. They were always around. It was amazing. He had this charisma. Well, what he had is he had th these these drugs that

Presenter17:23

Yes. Extraordinary story. Another choice of record, please, Johnny.

Johnny Mathis17:28

Well, my favorite entertainer of all time is Lena Horne. I grew up watching her, and I think the most magnetic time in my life, the time that I was most vulnerable, was when I first went to New York, made my first recordings, and I met a bass player by the name of George DeVivier, who was working for Lena Horne. And at night, I would go with George to the Waldorf Astoria, where she was performing, and listen to her sing. And this is Lena Horne at her best.

Speaker 317:59

Come rain, come shine. I look at you and then the world is wine. Then I kiss your lips and then the pounding becomes. The oceans roar, a thousand drums. Can it really be love? Can there be any doubt? When there it is.

Speaker 318:20

This is Dam T.

Presenter18:27

Day in, day out, Miss Leno Horn. I always think, I don't know if you agree, Johnny, that a woman who sings like has a voice like that, it's unfair she should look like she does as well.

Johnny Mathis18:34

It's amazing that God put together that much talent and beauty in one person. That's right. She's very, very beautiful.

Presenter18:40

Cool.

Presenter18:41

But going back to that drug scene we were talking about, I mean, you've been through, I suppose, a a career that's could be regarded as a high risk occupation, an awful lot of drug taking in the in the music industry, as indeed there is now in in both in America and in and in Britain. It's it's growing all the time. I just wondered if if you had any any views on the drug scene.

Johnny Mathis18:58

My views really are pretty simple. When I decided that I wanted to sing and sing really well, I knew that I couldn't take any kind of drugs because the first thing it affects is your voice. And after that, of course, your appearance, everything, your physical stamina. You have to be physically strong to sing well. And so what I had to do was disassociate myself with the people that I knew took drugs. And it was a little difficult at times. You're accustomed to being around these people all the time. To just say goodbye to them and get new friends. But after I did get new friends and wasn't around the people who were taking drugs, it was like the most natural thing in the world. That's what I would say to any youngster who finds himself in a situation of taking drugs or hanging with people who take drugs, is you've just got to change your pattern. Of course they are around, but there are a lot of people, the majority of the people, who never take drugs and it doesn't appeal to them.

Presenter20:01

The other point too, the point you made there, is that the the the great illusion about drugs is that you actually sing better or play the piano better or write better. You don't, in fact.

Johnny Mathis20:10

You don't? Absolutely you don't. I've made some recordings under the influence of this drug that this doctor was giving me, and I've compared that to my other recordings and they were very, very, very bad. Really? Absolutely.

Johnny Mathis20:25

Of course, you know, it's a habit. You you get accustomed to it and drugs sneak up on you and before you know it, you say you're doing it recreationally and in fact what you're doing is you're doing it all the time. And it's a rough life to live. And I'm sure any person in their right mind wouldn't get involved with drugs. The problem is it becomes a way of life and it's the wrong way of life.

Presenter20:48

Another choice of record, please, Johnny.

Johnny Mathis20:51

Other than coming to Great Britain, the place I like to go best is to South America and especially to Brazil because of the music and the people. And I have a favorite motion picture that was set in Brazil called Orfeo Negro. And there's a beautiful song from Orfeo Negro called Mañada Carnaval.

Speaker 321:09

Mm

Speaker 321:36

Hmm.

Presenter21:41

That was the main theme from the film, Black Orpheus. Let's let's talk a little bit about your uh lifestyle back in in in California. I was fascinated to read you you live in Gene Harlow's house.

Johnny Mathis21:52

Well, I tell you, the house was built in the thirties by Howard Hughes and it was around the time that he was dating Jane Harlow, so I figured, you know, she had to be in the house at some point or other. It's kind of a a spectacular house in that there's a swimming pool inside. The house is is built around the pool so that you enter the pool area going from one side of the house to the other. I've been there for about twenty-seven years now.

Presenter22:19

And do you do you actually d involve yourself in the in the Hollywood lifestyle?

Johnny Mathis22:24

Well, I don't think there is a Hollywood lifestyle anymore. There used to be when people dressed up a lot and and went out and had big parties at their home and what have you. I used to do that in the very beginning because that's the way you got to meet influential people. And we used to give at least one party a year and we'd invite everybody. We'd invite Clark Gable, anybody. They didn't come, but we invited them.

Johnny Mathis22:52

And the next day, what you did is you give the list of people to Luella Parsons or somebody like that. And they print the list of people invited to the party. And it looks great. It looks like all those people came to your house. But I don't have to do that anymore. And I really never did enjoy it. And I very rarely go out. Once in a while I'll go to the theater, but I'm such a homebody. I love my home and I stay there. Another choice of record, please, Johnny.

Johnny Mathis23:21

When I was in New York, for the first year that I was there recording, there was a schedule on the blackboard of the people who were coming in the studio after you and before you and what have you. And one day I stayed around to listen to Mahalia Jackson sing, and it was a a joy and a thrill. She made as much music and as much excitement in the studio as anybody does in person. And uh I remember her singing this song, didn't it, Mahal?

Speaker 323:48

Didn't it rain, children? Rain oh my Lord, didn't it? Didn't it? Didn't it all my Lord? Didn't it rain? Oh, didn't it rain, children? Rain oh my Lord, didn't it? Didn't it? Didn't it all my Lord? Didn't it rain? Well, rain forty days, forty nine without stopping. Gone with clapping, the rain stopped dropping. Knock out the

Presenter24:18

Printed Rain, Mihale Jackson.

Presenter24:20

Johnny, this album you've done with the Henry Mancini, the Hollywood Musicals, first of all, what number album is this? Okay.

Johnny Mathis24:27

Well, I just uh saw a list of them recently and there are seventy-six. This will be number seventy-seven.

Presenter24:34

And where where do you get the idea from of doing A teaming up with Henry Mancini and B doing the the the Hollywood musical?

Johnny Mathis24:40

Well, Henry and I had worked together. We first met in 1961 at the World's Fair in Seattle, Washington. And I asked him if he would work with me. And that was his first job, really, standing up in front of an audience and conducting his own music. And we toured for about ten years after that and sort of lost contact with each other over the years. We had been very good friends, and we exchanged Christmas gifts and what have you. I decided that I wanted to record an album of music from films, and I asked Henry if he'd help me out and maybe do four, because I know he's very busy. He's always writing for movies. And he said, sure.

Johnny Mathis25:22

And as we went over the songs and started uh looking at what songs we would do, he said, Hi, why don't I do the whole thing? I said, Great, great idea.

Presenter25:32

They're all the

Johnny Mathis25:32

So

Presenter25:32

From the forties, aren't they? Uh at that period in time. And uh people like Jerome Kern and uh Johnny Burke and Jimmy Van Heusen. Are are those really your your favorite kinds of composers?

Johnny Mathis25:42

Yes.

Presenter25:43

Absolutely.

Johnny Mathis25:44

They write very interesting words to sing. Uh they write beautiful stories to tell. And to have Henry do the music, it was a it was a dream come true really for me. Right. Let's have a final choice of record.

Johnny Mathis25:58

This is my favorite Henry Mancini song. He wrote this as an instrumental, and later they put some words to it. Uh I think it's called Slow Hot Win, but uh this is from the original instrumental and it's called Luzon.

Presenter26:43

There's Henry Mancini in his orchestra and Luzon.

Presenter26:46

Johnny, you're now on this desert island. You've got eight records, but you have to imagine now that seven are swept away, you're left with one. Which would it would it be?

Johnny Mathis26:54

I think it would have to be Luzon, Henry's recording.

Johnny Mathis26:59

It just evokes so many memories for me and so many pleasant memories that uh I think that's the one I keep.

Presenter27:06

What about the book? You've got on the island, you've got the complete works of Shakespeare and the Bible. What other book do you want?

Johnny Mathis27:07

Go to five.

Johnny Mathis27:10

Yeah.

Johnny Mathis27:12

How about um

Johnny Mathis27:14

Oh, I know.

Johnny Mathis27:15

I could read Gone of the Wen a million times. Let's have Gone of the Wen.

Presenter27:19

You can have that. Then

Johnny Mathis27:20

Uh

Presenter27:20

Yeah.

Johnny Mathis27:20

The

Presenter27:20

Luxury of

Johnny Mathis27:21

Object, inanimate. An inanimate object. Well, can I have a collection of objects, like my golf bag? Yes, I'll give you another. With the golf clubs in it? Of course you can. All right.

Presenter27:28

Yeah.

Presenter27:31

I'll be very happy with that. Absolutely. Johnny Mantes, thank you very much indeed.

Speaker 227:42

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.