Jackie Collins

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights' reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty six, and the presenter was Michael Parkinson.

Presenter0:30

If you want a definition of a best-selling author, then a check on the achievements of our castaway would do for a start. She's written eleven books, there are sixty million of them in print worldwide, and in more than thirty languages. In the main she writes about the glamour and the glitz of Hollywood. Her descriptions of what goes on in Tinseltown have earned her the title of The Queen of Sleas, and she's Jackie Collins.

Presenter0:53

Jackie, for somebody who reports all the goings-on, the happenings in Hollywood.

Presenter0:58

Would being on a desert island be a a kind of um an awful imposition?

Jackie Collins1:03

I think that's eventually where I'm going to end up. I mean, I think I'm going to be a great old eccentric one of these days, writing my books. I would really like to be like Agatha Christie. You know, everybody knew my name, but nobody knew what I looked like. And I could live on a desert island and have my friends visit me. It'd be great.

Presenter1:18

No, you're not allowed to have your friends visit you. Oh, you can't. No, you can't. I'm not going to be able to do that. You have to be totally alone. Absolutely so.

Jackie Collins1:19

Oh, you can't.

Jackie Collins1:22

Alone with one's memories, Michael, huh?

Presenter1:25

Ha ha ha.

Jackie Collins1:26

I think it would be very, very interesting. I don't think I would like it as a permanent solution to life's problems, but it would be nice for a year or so, just to get away from telephones.

Presenter1:35

So you wouldn't try to escape for at least a year.

Jackie Collins1:37

No, not for at least a year.

Presenter1:39

Let's have a first choice of records. You have eight records to take with you. Which will be the first one?

Jackie Collins1:43

Well, the first one would be Deanne Warwick, Walk On By, because first of all, I think she has the most wonderful voice. Secondly, I think that when she was recording with Bert Bacharach, way back in the sixties, that the records she made then were really fantastic. And I can remember listening to this record, and it just made me want to sit down and write. It was one of those records that creates a mood.

Jackie Collins2:03

And uh I think she's a lovely singer.

Jackie Collins2:05

If you see me walking down the street

Speaker 22:08

And I starting cry.

Speaker 22:11

Each time we meet

Speaker 22:14

Welcome by Walker Make me leave

Speaker 22:24

You don't see the tears, just let me grieve In private, cause each time I see you, I break down and cry.

Presenter2:35

That was Dion Warwick. Jackie, although you spent most of your life in America, you were in fact born in England. You came from a theatrical family, didn't you?

Jackie Collins2:43

Yes, I did. My father was an agent, and so I lived in a house full of uh kind of wandering minstrels. I mean, we always had uh jugglers and and comedians and movie stars coming through the house. So I I grew up with the thought that the people I saw on television were the people that were going to be in my life, and I was never in awe of them.

Speaker 23:01

No.

Jackie Collins3:01

And I found that I could talk to them. I would not say, Oh, I'm so impressed to meet you. Can I have your autograph? I would say, you know, How was it when you were married to your first wife? That's when I was a little older. When I was younger I used to write to Hollywood day and night, you know, asking for autographed pictures of Tony Curtis and Rock Hudson, and thinking I would go there one day and marry either of them.

Presenter3:18

Did you actually in in those days, in the very early days, did you want to be a star? Do you see any reason why you shouldn't not be in Shobis all your life?

Jackie Collins3:26

Oh, absolutely not. I wanted to be a journalist. I always wanted to be a journalist, and I was thrown out of school at fifteen. I was expelled for three reasons. One was for smoking, one was for playing truant for a whole term, and the third was for waving to the resident Flasher in Regent's Park.

Jackie Collins3:42

And they thought this was rather shocking, so they threw me out of school, and my parents thought I was a juvenile delinquent anyway, and they wanted to get rid of me. And my sister Joan was a movie star in Hollywood at that time.

Presenter3:43

But

Jackie Collins3:51

So they looked at me and I said, I want to be a journalist and they said, You've been thrown out of school. Forget about it. You need to have degrees. You need to go to college. You're not bad looking. Go off to Hollywood and be a actress like your sister.

Jackie Collins4:02

And so I was sort of shipped off, which I loved because I was dying to get to America.

Presenter4:06

But I mean let's let's just go back to that school bit. I mean were you actually writing at school? You said you had an ambition to be a journalist.

Jackie Collins4:11

I was writing at school. I I really hated school a lot, because I never thought that they taught you anything, you know. They never made it interesting, they never made you want to learn.

Jackie Collins4:21

And so I was very good in composition and English, but the rest of the thing I completely flunked out. I mean, it was so boring to learn dates and geography and history. And if they'd taught it in a more visual way, I could have maybe cottoned onto it, but I didn't like that. So I would have my geography books on my desk and I would be writing dirty limericks under my desk, which I would sell for six p a throw, or maybe one p. I mean, I I just knew that the girls liked to read what was supposedly in my diary or what I was making up, and I would make up fictitious stories about the teachers and their sex lives. It was great fun. More interesting than history, let me tell you.

Presenter4:57

That let's uh have a new record.

Jackie Collins4:59

Well, one record that I love a lot is Frank Sinatra and Antonia Karlajobin, the girl from Ipanema.

Speaker 25:06

Tall and tan and young and lovely the girl from Ebony goes walking and when she passes I smile but she doesn't see

Presenter5:13

Okay, and

Speaker 25:20

Ole qui koiza malinda, ma sheadi grasa, era minina qui fen qui pasa, nundos balans que nutumar.

Presenter5:33

The voices of Antonio Carlos Jobin and Frank Sinatra. Do you know Sinato? Have you ever met him?

Jackie Collins5:38

Well, you know, the first time I met Sinatra, he was introduced to me, my Mia Farrow. He was married to her at the time. And I was at a party, and Mia came up and she said, Oh, Jackie, she said, I want you to meet my husband. I want him to meet some of my younger friends, because all his friends are so old. Jackie Collins, this is Frank Sinatra. I felt like saying, Oh, you know, I thought it was Fred Bluggs. It seems so funny for her to be introducing Frank Sinatra and putting a name on him.

Presenter5:57

It seems so far.

Presenter5:59

producing Frank Sinatra and putting

Presenter6:01

So

Jackie Collins6:01

How do you make

Presenter6:01

What do you make of him?

Jackie Collins6:02

I think he's a strange man, really. He's obviously had a wonderful, interesting life.

Jackie Collins6:07

I saw him recently in New York and he's very much like a drill sergeant. You know, he he has his little cronies around him and his gophers. And we were honoring Roger Moore on the dais at the Friars Club in New York and and he was the uh spokesperson. And at the end of the thing he kind of got all his friends together and ushered them out and they were all like jumping. He snapped his fingers and they jumped.

Presenter6:26

Hm. Can I ask you an indiscreet question, does he figure in any of your novels?

Jackie Collins6:30

Well, of course he does, but you've got to read eleven novels and figure out which one he is.

Presenter6:34

What if he's done that?

Jackie Collins6:36

He does actually. He's a running character in three of my novels, cleverly disguised, but the very clever readers will be able to find him.

Presenter6:41

But the

Speaker 26:41

Uh

Presenter6:44

Let's go back now to the Hollywood days. You mentioned the fact that that you were shipped out to Hollywood as such, where Joan was over there already an established star. How old are you you've been what, about fifteen at this time?

Jackie Collins6:53

Yes, I was fifteen and and I was shortly going to be sixteen. And Joan practically met me at the airport, but she was at her apartment and she said uh

Jackie Collins7:01

Okay, she said, I'm going off to the West Indies on location. Here's the keys to the apartment. Look after the apartment, water the plants, learn to drive, and goodbye, Charlie. And she was gone, and I was alone, and it was so great. I mean

Jackie Collins7:14

I really think that I've been writing about that wild year I had alone in Hollywood as a teenager ever since. I mean, so many things happened, and it was a fascinating time.

Presenter7:22

But you're fifteen. You were obviously very physically mature at the time.

Jackie Collins7:24

Oh yeah, I looked about nineteen. And what made you say that, Michael?

Presenter7:27

Well, I'm just looking at it now actually.

Jackie Collins7:31

No, it was it was really great. I I can remember one of Peggy Lee's ex-husbands lived in the apartment opposite me, and I was always very scared of moths. And I used to go out every night and come home about two or three o'clock in the morning, and I would walk into this uh small apartment, and there would always be a spider or a moth or something, and innocently I would go over to this poor man and knock him up, if you'll pardon the expression, and say, Excuse me, could you come in? There's a spider and he must have thought I was crazy, because he would get out of bed and he'd put on his dressing gown and come in and kill the spider and sort of hang around and I'd say, Well, thank you very much and shut the door in his face.

Presenter8:01

Yeah.

Presenter8:03

Let's have another chose of record.

Jackie Collins8:04

Well, I have always loved Al Green, and I think that one of the best records he's ever made, and it was recently covered by Tina Turner, but I don't think you can beat the original, is Let's Stay Together.

Speaker 28:15

Uh

Speaker 28:19

I'm so in love with you.

Speaker 28:23

Whatever you want.

Speaker 28:28

Is it all right?

Presenter8:43

Jackie, how much easier is it, do you think, to operate in in Los Angeles in the way that you do to get the material for your stories than than say it would be in London? I mean, is it a much more open, gossipy society than say in London?

Jackie Collins8:54

It is, and you look around at the characters there and you want to write them because there's a lot of cliché characters, and I write about Hollywood. In fact, Sue Mengers, who is a Hollywood agent and was the Hollywood agent for a while, she recently decided she was going to retire for a year, called me up when she'd read Hollywood Husbands and she said, Jackie, she said, I've got to tell you this. She said, You're the only person today who is writing accurate books about Hollywood in the eighties. And coming from Sue, that was a great compliment. And I think I can do that because I am an outsider. I'm an observer and I haven't lived there all my life. I've been there all my life, back and forth, and I've lived there for five years now.

Presenter9:19

Hmm.

Jackie Collins9:29

But I can watch these people and then I can write about them and and they may be cliche and over the top and and you might think, Well, this can't possibly go on, but trust me, Michael, it does.

Presenter9:37

Well, but I I'm I must ask you because, you know, the name of the game in in Hollywood is being identified with the character in the Jackie Collins novel. And I was fascinated by the the new one, the The Hollywood Husbands, in that you've got a chat show host called Jack Python.

Jackie Collins9:44

And how

Speaker 29:44

Book.

Presenter9:51

who is described as having killer eyes and uh an amused grin or something like that, but who sleeps about him in a manner which is, I mean, quite extraordinary and excessive.

Jackie Collins10:00

But you never knew a chat show host that did that.

Presenter10:02

But that's what I wanted you to to tell me.

Jackie Collins10:05

I think it's a very sexy profession, I must say, because you meet a lot of uh very attractive, beautiful women. I always remember you once saying that uh you would be in your dressing room when you had the uh show on television, waiting to go on, and you would hear your guests throwing up in the next room.

Jackie Collins10:21

I always got the image of how you made people nervous. And I thought that Jack Python is is a dangerous kind of name. And it is, I think, it's a very sexy occupation. It's sexier than an actor, because movie stars are so self-obsessed. I mean, actors will elbow you out of the way to get to the mirror first. And, you know, church show hosts have to be able to talk about things, so they have to have a mind and they have to have a sense of humour. And I think that's a very attractive thing for a man to have.

Presenter10:48

I think you're just a flatterer. Let's have another choice of it.

Jackie Collins10:52

Well, when I had my daughters there was one record that always came to mind, and I have three daughters, and I happen to think they're very beautiful. You know, whether they're beautiful physically or beautiful in the way they are towards me or towards my husband, I always think of this record every time I look at them, and it's Joe Cocker's You Are So Beautiful.

Speaker 211:10

You

Speaker 211:12

Oh, so beautiful.

Speaker 211:27

You are so beautiful.

Speaker 211:38

To me

Presenter11:40

Jackie, can we just go back briefly to that time when you were first in Hollywood? I mean, you came back after the first meeting with Joan here when you were sort of fifteen or sixteen. You eventually came back as a as a starlit, I suppose, didn't you?

Jackie Collins11:52

Isn't that the most dreadful word you've ever heard? And I mean, it really is awful because I never considered myself that. I always considered myself an out-of-work writer because I was never ambitious, I never wanted to be an actress. And I went o around England in these terrible well, they weren't terrible plays, they were terrific plays. Terence Radigan's French Without Tears in which I starred and Jack Popperwell's Blind Alley in which I starred. But I mean it was a terrible drag because I would go and do a movie.

Presenter11:53

And I mean

Presenter11:55

That's all.

Jackie Collins12:15

And I would always be the Italian girl or the movie star because I had dark hair. And everybody would assume, because I was Joan's sister and she was a movie star in Hollywood at the time, that that's what I wanted, but I didn't want it.

Jackie Collins12:27

What I found so fascinating was the research, because I saw it from the other side. I I would go on the auditions and see how men treated women, and I would watch what went on on the set. In fact, once they called me up and they said, Great opportunity, this is it, kid. You're going to be the only girl in a Alec Guinness film.

Jackie Collins12:43

Barnacle Bill, yes. And you know what I had to do?

Presenter12:43

Yeah.

Presenter12:45

Yes, and you know

Presenter12:46

Yeah.

Jackie Collins12:47

I had to teach Alec Guinness how to rock and roll, and he had to throw me over his shoulder.

Presenter12:52

Not possible.

Jackie Collins12:53

I mean, not possible. He had to do it. The poor man's probably never recovered. He's probably walking around with a bent back.

Presenter12:57

He's a foot smaller than you are, isn't he?

Jackie Collins12:59

Yes, he is. I mean, I towered over him. It was ridiculous. And I was on location for three months. But the research, Michael, was invaluable. And I figure if Ronald Reagan can be a B actor, I can have been an actress in my time, you know.

Presenter13:12

But then of course that led to Hollywood again, didn't it? And it led to the twentieth century charm school, didn't it?

Jackie Collins13:18

Oh yes, 20th century fox charms.

Presenter13:19

Yeah, I I just what what is a charm school? I mean what well it was kind of

Jackie Collins13:22

Well, it was kind of an acting school where they put people that they thought they may make stars one of these days, and it was run by this terrible Englishwoman who hated me because I was English, and she used to tell all these lies. She used to say, Oh, well, you know, in Shaftesbury Avenue, I'm the star of Shaftesbury Avenue and I've been in every movie and every theatrical production with Lawrence Olivier and I used to say, I don't think so. I've never heard of her to the other students. So again, I was the wild one. I mean, I was thrown out of there too. It takes, you know, a lot of guts to get thrown out of Twentieth Century Fox Charm School.

Presenter13:51

In those days you were talking about storing up the gifts for later on as a writer. Did the casting couch exist, um or is it a Hollywood myth?

Jackie Collins13:59

It did exist and it does exist. I mean, I would often go on an interview and they would say, Oh, can you lift your skirt a little higher? or can you have dinner tonight? And I mean, I would just smile because I was always quite cynical and always amused by the things men would get up to. You know, some other girls might go along with it, but it didn't guarantee they would get into the movie. But in Hollywood now, which is really funny, the whole thing has reversed, and it is the women casting agents who are saying to the men, What are you doing tonight? Do you want to come out to dinner? And we'll see if you're right for the movie. So the whole thing is swung around.

Presenter14:32

Another choice of record.

Jackie Collins14:33

Well, the next record that I would like to have is Isaac Hayes. And I love Isaac Hayes because I remember seeing him in concert here once, and he came onto the stage completely draped in gold chains and nothing else. And I thought this is a man with great style. And the record I'm going to pick is a record that always reminds me of an old boyfriend who kind of haunted my life, who eventually died but was an incredible, fantastic, wonderful person. And the record is called Never Can Say Goodbye.

Speaker 215:00

More than before, tell me why.

Speaker 215:05

Is it so? I don't wanna let you go.

Speaker 215:12

I can say goodbye

Speaker 215:16

Boy, I never say goodbye.

Presenter15:26

Jaggy, after the the the sort of acting experience, I mean, you you married Oscar, your husband now, what, twenty how how long you been married now?

Jackie Collins15:33

Well, I was married before that yes, for a very short time. Not so short, actually.

Presenter15:34

Yes.

Jackie Collins15:37

for about four years. But my husband at that time was heavily involved in drugs. And I would like to say to anybody listening out there who is into drugs that it is the most self destructive thing you can possibly do to yourself, and I'm incredibly anti them.

Presenter15:50

What kind of drugs was he using?

Jackie Collins15:52

You know, it's this very strange thing. I married this guy, I was very young, I was about eighteen or nineteen, and he got depressed, so he went to a psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist would give him a drug called methadrine, which today is called speed.

Jackie Collins16:04

And the psychiatrist had to go on vacation one day and he said, Here's the equipment, here's how you inject yourself, goodbye, I'll be back in two weeks. And of course, by the time he came back, my husband was an addict. The psychiatrist himself was an addict, we found out later, and he eventually died. And my husband eventually died of that time. And it was a very sad time. It was very difficult for me because I had a a child, a very young child, and my mother was dying at the time too, so I had all that, and it was really a very difficult time. But I really know a lot about what people can do to themselves.

Presenter16:38

Have you ever tried drugs yourself?

Jackie Collins16:40

I do not agree with them. I mean, that's really all I'm prepared to say about it. I think that's the question. Yeah, well, I think.

Presenter16:44

That's avoiding the question. I mean I suppose it's inevitable that anybody in your situation and the time you spend over there would of course be involved at at one point or another.

Jackie Collins16:52

Well, not necessarily. You see, w if you're married at eighteen to a man who's a drug addict and you can see what it can do to people and you can see them scrabbling for drugs under the floorboards and and hiding them in any way and lying and and just, you know, really

Jackie Collins17:06

being in such bad shape from it, that it's not something you're inclined to try yourself. But then again, as a writer and as a wild child, I felt I should try everything.

Jackie Collins17:14

But if it was today, I would say that there's far more drugs around and they're far more dangerous, and I don't recommend anybody to try anything. It's like smoking.

Presenter17:22

The view that that one has, of course, from this distance of obsessed society like Hollywood is that uh it is very much a drug culture, that I mean uh drugs like cocaine are fashionable there. Would that be right? I mean are there is it is it really prevalent?

Jackie Collins17:34

Yeah, you you you know somehow they're cleaning up their act a little bit, but about two years ago everybody was on cocaine. Not everybody, but a a huge percentage. I mean they would put cocaine on the budget of a film for the star. A lot of actors cannot go on the set unless they've had a snort or two. And you'll be surprised at some of the actors I'm talking about, because a lot of the older actors got into it because they thought it was hip. They thought, oh, you know, we're getting a bit older and actors are insecure, as we all know, and they figured that this was a thing they should do. And I remember being at a dinner party in Hollywood about two years ago with you know, it was very tasteful. The silver was out and the barmen were there and the valet parking and the whole thing was very proper. And after dinner they served the cocaine in a silver bowl.

Jackie Collins18:15

Unbelievable. If I wrote that scene, everybody would say Jackie's gone a little too far now.

Presenter18:19

Yes, that's right. How do you therefore because you've got three daughters I mean how do you therefore guarantee, if you can guarantee that they don't in fact pick up any any of these hammers? I mean how vigilant?

Jackie Collins18:28

Well you can't guarantee it because, you know, you take a snort of cocaine and you do feel great for a short while. A short while is the key. And what's the point of becoming addicted to something in your life and any drug is addictive?

Jackie Collins18:40

Even if it's not physically addictive, it is mentally addictive, because if you take it and you have a great time, it's like taking a scotch before you go into a party. You're always going to want that scotch before you go into the party because it makes you feel good.

Jackie Collins18:52

I think the best high of all is to fast. I mean, if you fast for three days you feel better than you ever can in a million years if you're high.

Jackie Collins18:58

So with children, I think you have to talk to them. You know, you show them a packet of cigarettes and say, smoke if you wish. This is what it says on the packet of cigarettes. This is damaging to your health.

Jackie Collins19:08

And uh if they're smart, and if you have a good relationship with them, they may listen.

Presenter19:13

Another choice of record, please.

Jackie Collins19:14

Well, my favorite record, I think, is is one that means a lot to me, and I used it in my book Chances, which is my big breakthrough book in America. And it's uh used in the scene with Lucky when her boyfriend gets shot, and I just love it. It's Marvin Gaye, What's Going On.

Speaker 219:33

You know we've got to find our way.

Speaker 219:38

To bring some love and gift here today You can laugh

Speaker 219:46

Pick itself.

Speaker 219:48

Don't punish me without brutality Talk to me so you can see

Speaker 220:00

What's going on?

Presenter20:04

Jackie, when you had this period in your life where you're the sort of housewife in in Hollywood, where you bring up children and uh settling down, married for the second time, what was it that made you want to start being a novelist?

Jackie Collins20:16

Well, I started to write before I was married the second time. I was in London at the time, and I had had these experiences in Hollywood, and I'd had a lot of

Jackie Collins20:26

Married men come on to me. I mean, I got married to my first husband, and he went into hospital a week later, and his best man was literally chasing me round the table.

Jackie Collins20:35

And I found that married men were really always constantly chasing women. And I would say to them, But, you know, what about your wife? How would you like it if your wife did this? And they would always say the same thing, Michael. And I wonder if you've ever heard this. They would say, Well, I can understand how some men's wives would play around, but my wife is different. I should have called the book My Wife is Different, because they all said the same thing, right? And I thought this is amazing. You know, all these married men trying to get women and their wife is different. And then I was at a party.

Jackie Collins21:04

And uh Alma Cogan, remember the late Alma Cogan?

Presenter21:07

I do indeed.

Jackie Collins21:08

She walked into this party, she looked around the room, and she turned to me. She said, You know something? She said, I come to this party and I can't get a date, and I look around and the world is full of married men.

Jackie Collins21:18

And I thought, that's the title. It's an absolutely great title. And I want to write about the way.

Jackie Collins21:24

Men use the double standard, the way they think it's okay for them, but it's not okay for their wife, and their wife is different.

Jackie Collins21:30

And I started to write this book called The World is Full of Married Men, and up until that time I'd been writing all my life. I'd written a lot of half books that I hadn't finished.

Jackie Collins21:37

And I met my present husband, Oscar.

Jackie Collins21:40

And he said to me, What do you do? thinking I was going to say actress or model or something like that. And I said, I'm a writer. And he said, What have you written? And I thought, oh God, I suppose I'm going to. I said, I've got this book that I'm writing. He said, let me see it. So I showed it to him. And he was the first person that said to me, it's absolutely terrific and you can do it. And so I did it. I mean, he said, you've got to finish it. I'd never finished anything up until that time.

Speaker 221:57

And

Presenter22:01

Yeah.

Jackie Collins22:01

So I went off to a friend's house in Long Island, in New York, and it was very deserted, and you know being English, how you love the sun. And it was wonderful weather, and I thought every morning when I get up I'm going to write ten pages before I allow myself to go in the sun. So eventually doing it that way, it was absolute torture and it took me forever, but I finished it.

Jackie Collins22:19

And then I looked along my bookcase and saw a publisher that I had a lot of their books and I thought, well, if I like what they publish, maybe they'll like what I write.

Jackie Collins22:28

And I sent it in to them, and it took about three or four months, but eventually they said, Yeah, we'd love to publish it.

Presenter22:33

And that's eleven book since.

Jackie Collins22:35

That's eighteen years ago, eleven books later.

Presenter22:39

What interests me, of course, is that is that given the lifestyle that you have in uh in in Hollywood, because I mean, uh never mind uh about yourself being well off, I mean Oscar's well off as well, you've got a very, very comfortable lifestyle. I wonder why you need to continue working, why you're driven. Is it because you you see the way women are exploited uh as objects in Hollywood? Do you think they should have a proper career or what?

Jackie Collins23:00

Well, it's very interesting because I think that people are aware of my books and they imagine, if they haven't read me, that they're these huge, sexy blockbusters with sex on every page, as one reviewer said. But actually what they are is they're very funny, intentionally funny. They're cynical and they're a light hearted kind of send up of Hollywood and a send up of the way men use women and the double standard. And I also create very strong female characters. And women absolutely love my female characters. And they will write me these great letters saying, well, I broke up with my boyfriend. Normally I would have gone off to the bathroom and been in floods of tears for weeks. But because of your book, Lucky, which was one of my favorite characters, I decided to be different and I handled it with style and I really feel that I can now go out and get a new job and have a new life and I'm not sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. And in a mild way, I think that my women are helping other women. They're kind of role models for women. They're not exactly Rambo, but they're not exactly wimps either. You know what I mean? They're not waiting in the bedroom or the kitchen for something to take place. They're out there living their lives like men have always lived their lives.

Presenter24:06

How practical a project is that, do you think?

Presenter24:09

The women, I mean, can do that, should do that.

Jackie Collins24:11

You're not a chauvinist, are you my

Presenter24:13

I am not at all, not until you prick me.

Jackie Collins24:14

Loma

Jackie Collins24:15

I wouldn't oh.

Jackie Collins24:17

I won't even comment on that. However, I think that uh a lot of women today are thinking to themselves, yes, I would like to have a career. Yes, I have a career. I'm not going to live my life through a man. If a great man comes along, great. If he doesn't,

Jackie Collins24:32

You know, it's not such a terrible thing.

Presenter24:34

You encourage your daughters due to this thought that they must have a career in their life.

Jackie Collins24:37

Well, I brought them up with this uh phrase I I said to them when they were very little, before they could speak. I said, Girls can do and the first word they learned was anything. It wasn't mummy or daddy, it was anything.

Presenter24:49

That's an old show of recording.

Jackie Collins24:50

Okay, this is by a friend of mine. His name is Errol Brown, and he's the lead singer in Hot Chocolate. And when I wrote Chances, he loved the book, and he said, I would love to write a song for you. And I said, Well, why don't you write a song about Lucky, who is the female character, who is this great, you know, strong woman that strides through the book and has everything her way. And he said, Terrific. And at the time I was in Los Angeles and I think I'd broken my foot or something and I was feeling very depressed and Errol sent me the tape. And I remember it distinctly. I went into my study and I put on the tape and I didn't play it for about three days because I felt so ill.

Jackie Collins25:23

And this record came on, and I thought this is fabulous, and I really just adored it, and it's called Chances.

Speaker 225:28

Oh spin the wheel, call your nightmare Lucky, my stakes on you

Speaker 225:36

We made new

Speaker 225:38

But the game

Speaker 225:40

We must play

Speaker 225:43

No, it's true.

Speaker 225:46

Life's the dealer that your heart I cannot see.

Speaker 225:52

But a fall on dinner.

Speaker 225:55

I'll take my chances off.

Presenter25:58

Jackie, the daunting thing about meeting you, and I've known you for a while, is that one always gets the impression that you're observing as well as being observed, that you're taking things down. I mean, doing the recording you've jotted down a couple of things that you're you're obviously going to use in in future books. And I wonder if that that affects your relationship with people. I mean, do you find they get wary of you?

Jackie Collins26:16

You're safe, Michael. I've already written the talk show host. The bits of you are already in there. The naughty bits. Um I do find people are wary of me, yes. But they still confide in me. They tell me lots of things. I'm I'm the bartender. I'm Joe. Set em up, Joe, and we'll tell you everything. I'm a free psychiatrist.

Presenter26:20

The naughty bits.

Speaker 226:22

Uh

Speaker 226:27

Exactly.

Speaker 226:32

Uh

Jackie Collins26:32

And it's interesting though, the people that are intimidated by me, they don't quite know how to take me because I'm very outspoken and I don't go to Hollywood parties and and just hang around silently. I mean I'll say what's on my mind. I was at a party last week and it was crammed with movie stars and there was this movie star who's had several facelifts and is quite old but still looks great, you know. And he was talking about playing a game of tennis and jumping over the net and tripping and and twisting his ankle. So I said to him, Oh, well, you're not as young as you used to be. And he was absolutely furious because they have huge egos and and people just don't say things. They don't say what's on their mind there.

Speaker 227:09

If

Jackie Collins27:09

I do think that people confide in me, though. I mean, I I'm still amazed at what they say in front of me. People are still telling me all kinds of things. You never know what you're going to hear next, and from whom.

Presenter27:16

It's never

Presenter27:18

Yeah.

Presenter27:19

What about the future then? What about future novels? What about the future subjects? Have you already got one lined up, one in your sites?

Jackie Collins27:25

Yes, I'm going to do a book called Ruckstar, and I'm going to explore the Ruck World, and then I'm going to do another sequel to Lucky. First There Was Chances, Then Lucky, and now it is going to be Deadly Connections.

Jackie Collins27:35

And then after that I'll take a breather and I don't know, maybe I'll do another talk show host, Michael. They get more interesting all the time.

Presenter27:42

Another choice is red core.

Jackie Collins27:43

Good.

Presenter27:44

Well

Jackie Collins27:44

Well, this is from Hollywood Husbands. I mean it's not from Hollywood Husbands. I use the record in Hollywood Husbands because I love using music in my books. And Jade Johnson is the heroine and she's of course the highest paid commercial model in the world who doesn't need anything from men. And she goes to Hollywood and they're all vying for her attention. And she loves to go home, kick off her shoes and play the great Bruce Springsteen. So this is Bruce Springsteen's Cover Me.

Speaker 228:12

Man, just getting tougher. This whole world is rough, it's just getting rougher, come me.

Speaker 228:21

Time won't believe it to me

Speaker 228:35

Promise me baby you won't let them find

Presenter28:42

So Jackie Collins were now on this desert island and uh

Jackie Collins28:45

Just you and I?

Presenter28:45

Just no no Just you

Jackie Collins28:48

Oh, okay, yes, got it.

Presenter28:50

Unless you can count me as an inanimate object and people often have

Jackie Collins28:52

I don't think so, Michael. I don't think so.

Presenter28:55

All right, you have to pick out one record from the eighth. Imagine seven have been washed away. Which one would you wish to preserve?

Jackie Collins29:02

Well, I think it would have to be Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, because it it it really is a a beautiful record. It it puts me in a great mood every time I hear it, and if I was going to hear something over and over again, that would be the record I would want.

Presenter29:13

What about the book that you take with you?

Jackie Collins29:16

I can't have two, can I? No, you can't. Oh, God. All right. Well, I would think it would be uh the great Gatsby.

Presenter29:17

No, you can't.

Presenter29:22

Ah, why?

Jackie Collins29:22

It's a fascinating book, and I do read it every year, so I probably could read it every week, too. I I just love the character of Jay Gatsby. I love that kind of aloneness of him, and the mystery of him, and the mansion, and the whole Long Island visual thing.

Presenter29:30

I love

Presenter29:36

And what about the inanimate object that you'd like to take with you? What would that be?

Jackie Collins29:40

Well, it would be a battery operated record player, so I could play the record that I was left with after the others had been washed away.

Presenter29:46

No, you've got a a record player there already, you see. I mean you must have to play the records.

Jackie Collins29:49

Oh, I see. Oh, you gave me that already.

Presenter29:50

Oh, you gave me that already.

Jackie Collins29:53

In that case I would take a photograph of my family, so at least I could remember them, while I'm having this wonderful solitary time on this island playing Marvin Gay day and night.

Presenter30:03

Jackie Collins, thank you very much indeed.

Jackie Collins30:04

Thank you, Michael.

Speaker 330:12

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.