Phil Edmonds

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty six, and the presenter was Michael Parkinson.

Presenter0:31

The title of the recently published biography of Our Castaway tells it all really. The book is entitled A Singular Man, singular in the sense of being unusual, even odd.

Presenter0:40

His wife once said of him, and I quote, He has a reputation for being awkward and arrogant, mainly because he is awkward and arrogant.

Presenter0:48

A writer also observed that he was the most notable of Cricket's awkward squad.

Presenter0:53

It must also be said that he is a cricketer of the highest class, and in the view of many, including myself, some one who would make an ideal captain of his country. He is the Middlesex in England cricketer, Phil

Phil Edmonds1:04

Michael, it's a pleasure to be here.

Presenter1:05

Thank you, Phil. Now, you're off on on tour of Australia. In fact, it's going to last five months. Does music play any part of your plans when you're going a tour like that?

Phil Edmonds1:14

Well, obviously there's a lot of tedium involved in touring, ones in coaches or on airlines. I believe I haven't looked at the itinerary in any great depth, but I believe on this particular tour we have forty two different flights around Australia. Much of that obviously cooped up, very cramped, and I think it is quite important to get away from the childish behavior of some of my colleagues on occasions. So yes, I do tend to spend quite a lot of time listening to the likes of Beethoven or some of the pop classics of Stevie Wonder or Simon and Garfunko. I spend a lot of time listening, yes. But in the main, it's the classics, is it?

Presenter1:49

Did you take with you on tour?

Phil Edmonds1:50

Mainly, in fact, during the last tour of India, which was another four and a half month tour, I took only the nine Beethoven symphonies, so I got to know them pretty well. And in fact, my first choice is one of Beethoven's. What is it? Well, this is the Ode to Joy by Beethoven, mainly because it brings back the Indian trip, which was very successful from our point of view. I find it very, very rousing, which I think is important. We've got to think positively in cricket before going out onto the field. Funnily enough, I also find it relaxing while rousing. And, well, thirdly, my wife Frances spends a lot of time over in Brussels as an interpreter in the European common market, and this is part of the European hymn.

Presenter3:28

And that was the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Colin Davies.

Presenter3:33

Phil, you christened Philippe Henri. Your mother's a Belgian, your father was English, you were born in Lussako, which was then, in those days, northern Rhodesia. What was it like? What was the environment like?

Phil Edmonds3:45

Well, just to give you background on the family relationship, my father met my mother when he was teaching history in the University in Brussels. This is just during the war. They then went out in the late forties after the war to South Africa and then eventually up to Zambia. I'm one of five children, three of whom were born out in Zambia. So very big family, living out really in very primitive conditions in the bush in Zambia. Lusaka in that time in the early fifties was very much a one-horse town to say the least. So we lived out in the sticks, which is very important from the point of view of well, just having a large family was obviously important in that context. So we're quite a close family. In addition, my father got heavily involved into black politics. It was a fascinating time, this the early fifties through right till 1966 when we left, because we had the formation of Rhodesia and Niceland. That was Northern Rhodesia, Southern Rhodesia and Iceland. And then eventually that broke up in the early sixties. So we saw a tremendous transition.

Speaker 14:32

Black.

Phil Edmonds4:42

Formation and then separation, the winds of change, you know, Macmillan speech and all that.

Presenter4:47

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds4:47

Let's talk about

Presenter4:48

About that a bit later. I'm uh now particularly interested in in you growing up there in this uh w was it sort of bush country, was it, or what?

Presenter4:55

Well it

Phil Edmonds4:55

It's high savanna land, 4,500 feet. Lusaka is not a very big town and therefore one's out into the bush very quickly. We had a a house on the edge of town and then subsequently we had a farm some twenty-five miles out of Lusaka. So yes, we were very much bush people and we were very, very close to the Africans. In fact, our holidays, which were let's say six weeks at a time, were spent really roaming the bush with our African help, which was really very educational in many ways.

Presenter5:25

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds5:26

I mean, w was there any danger from wild animals in that country or? Well, uh on the farm there were obviously lions, leopards and so on, but you know, two young fellows of uh

Presenter5:28

Uh

Phil Edmonds5:37

eight, nine, ten at the time make a lot of noise. Uh so in essence we didn't really see that much wild game when we were on our own. But uh in a party with the Africans or if one took the Land Rover out into the bush specifically to see the wild game, you know, there were tons and tons of it. What about sport? I mean, were you playing cricket at the same time as well?

Phil Edmonds5:55

Well, bear in mind that the sort of education system there is that one goes to school from half past seven in the morning till one o'clock lunchtime, and then every afternoon is available for sport. Literally, from one o'clock right the way through to six o'clock, the sun sets reasonably early, but every single afternoon is devoted to sport. And we played sport with all the other youngsters, cricket, rugby, hockey, whatever, mainly cricket and rugby. I was at a school called Cabalonga Boys School, which was very Oxbridge-orientated. It's quite an interesting time there, even up to the early 60s, in that the Oxbridge tradition was really instilled in the locals. The idea of being taught to govern, taught to rule. That was all part of the ethos. And literally, every master at one stage was an Oxbridge graduate. It sounds in many ways actually kind of idyllic childhood. Yes, I wouldn't have had it any other way, certainly. And also, with my father's involvement in black politics, we had, I think, a tremendous insight into the way society works and how the establishment works, in that we were ostracized from the rest of the white community for a very considerable period of time. We were deemed to be the Kaffa Booties, the black lovers, really because my father was simply expounding good Christian ideals, in that perhaps all men should be given equal opportunity. I hasten to say that he's an atheist, but that didn't stop the church deeming him to be an untrustworthy fellow because he was expounding these good Christian ideals. Let's talk about that a bit further after this next record. What's it to be?

Presenter7:15

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds7:24

Well the next record is Carmena Barana by Karl Orff. It is another very rousing piece. These were the twelfth century monks roaming round the country with a a vocal tradition, and this is very much uh the same in Africa, where they're they're tremendous vocalists. You go into any village and at the drop of a hat you know they'll put together their local choir and it really, it really is tremendous. So it brings back very happy memories from my uh boyhood in Zambia.

Speaker 28:00

Sam Joseph

Speaker 28:20

Give and grace the Lord and Lord.

Speaker 28:27

I'm sorry, you're a dude.

Presenter8:47

That was performed by the new Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Rafael Frubeck de Burgos.

Presenter8:53

Phil, let's now talk about this uh political aspect of your of your father's life. We're talking about the winds of change time, aren't we, in Africa? We're talking about the time when Kenneth Cownder, I suppose, was the up and coming political leader in the country. Did did you know him at all?

Presenter9:07

Yes, we

Phil Edmonds9:07

We knew him intimately. My father I think first met him in the very, very early fifties, maybe even 1950 itself. There was a gentleman called Harry Nkambula, who was I think father of uh black politics in in Zambia and Kenneth Kawunda and a gentleman called Simon Capuepui, he was the new breed coming through, the dynamic youngsters at that time. And for a very long time, Capuepui, Kawunda, a gentleman called uh James Skinner, an Irishman who became Attorney General of Zambia.

Phil Edmonds9:37

I suppose for five years they would have come to our house at least three times a week, basically to learn learn their politics and you know the humanities from my father. We saw them literally every week for five years. So a very interesting time.

Presenter9:51

When you mentioned uh earlier on that you were ostracized by the rest of the white settlers out there, what form did this take?

Phil Edmonds9:58

Well, my father was quite a successful developer, property man, builder at one stage. He was, I wouldn't say, forced out of work, but he found it very, very difficult to get contracts from the government, for instance. He then set up a soft drinks company in opposition to the local Coca-Cola franchisee. That was liquidated, basically, as a result of government pressure. And really, he didn't have a job for at least a good two years during the period, I suppose, in the very early sixties when the independence movement was reaching its height. And we survive on my mother's salary, which was a very meagre one, as a teacher.

Presenter10:33

Was that true of all of your neighbours, or were there some who who actually took an opposite point of view and supported you?

Phil Edmonds10:38

Well, it was quite interesting in that the violently anti-black Boers, the farmers and so on, were by far the most generous, because I think.

Phil Edmonds10:46

Again, it gets back to this business about being a man's man. They knew what my father was doing. They saw themselves in a different position, but they could understand him, right? They were very generous indeed, and the Greek expatriates, the people who would run the local delicatessens and so on, always very generous. But the civil servants, basically the British boys, right? The Treasury boys who came out and made policy had a lot of influence on the British community there. And we found ourselves ostracized totally. I used to fight at school literally every day for a couple of years simply because we were the Kaffa Booties. Get out.

Presenter11:19

Yeah.

Presenter11:19

What about the reverse of that, though? When when Kaunder came to power in independence, was your father rewarded for his services? Well, as inevitably happens.

Phil Edmonds11:27

Or quite often happens when the likes of Kawunda get into power, the realities of power are somewhat different to the ideals. And somebody like my father was a little bit of an embarrassment. And in fact, you could say he was taken for granted. In fact, I remember my father coming home one day and saying to us, Well, I've just been to see Kenneth Kawunda, and we've had a bit of a chat. And I've said to him, Well, you've got all the contracts going out to XYZ, who used to hate you last week and they were going to put a gun to your head. Now you're giving them big contracts. What about some of the fellows who've been fighting for you all this time? And the attitude was, well, of course, Douglas, my father's name, Douglas, we expected that of you. We would expect no less. Of course, these other guys, we've got to keep them happy. It was that type of attitude.

Presenter12:10

I'll give you you your s

Phil Edmonds12:10

Self-emptorial.

Presenter12:11

Very cynical view.

Phil Edmonds12:11

Of the society? Yeah, certainly. I believe basically, uh sort of digressing from that or expanding from that, that really all societies are the same. All establishments are the same, be they the Soviets or we here in the West. Establishments simply exist to perpetuate themselves by and large. They want the status quo. Uh there are very few revolutionaries in this world. It doesn't matter if you're East or West. You're part of the establishment system. If you bang your head against that wall, you're in for trouble. Let's have a another choice of record, Phil.

Phil Edmonds12:43

Well, the next one is Fleetwood Mac. Really, this coincides with my time over here, having come to school here after independence. Fleetwood Mac, late sixties, Albatross. I think for me it's one of the real classics and I can listen to it any time, anywhere.

Presenter13:29

Uh

Presenter13:30

Well, when you left Africa to come to England to go to public school here, did you find that an easy transition?

Phil Edmonds13:37

In some ways, yes, in some ways, no, very difficult. Bear in mind, at that age, one has certain priorities, namely to get some academic qualifications. I was always reasonably academic in my outlook. I understood that it was necessary to work reasonably hard. So I found that very easy. What I found more difficult, I think, was the integration. Coming from a situation in Zambia where we had been ostracized for some time, we were a very contained family. I did find it reasonably difficult to get into the school as a whole. I don't think we're natural joiners per se. You wouldn't find Edmunds, for instance, necessarily joining the Masonic Lodge at the drop of a hat, that type of thing. And even now, if we're traveling on a bus, I find it very difficult to join in the sort of statutory singing of dirty songs. For me, that's a little bit abhorrent. So I found it a bit difficult. But, you know, public school, obviously, you've got to work and also there's a lot of sport. So that aspect I found very easy.

Presenter14:32

Uh

Presenter14:34

Yes, certainly at public school, and certainly later on at Cambridge, you seem to find that very easy indeed. Why is that? I mean, I I've observed in in people from your background that they do have a different attitude towards sport than than the native bred Brits do.

Phil Edmonds14:47

Yeah.

Presenter14:48

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds14:48

Actually, I'm sure that's right. You know, as the young Northern Rhodesian as then growing up, it was very much part of the school culture, and it was deemed that a rounded child was one who was involved in all sorts of things and not just the academic side. So sport was very important. And in Zambia, there's no doubt about it, that the youngsters do mature, and I'm sure it's the same in Australia. Youngsters do mature a lot earlier, physically, as well as I think mentally in many ways. One has a physical maturity which enables one to go and play with the men. Certainly that happened in Zambia. We played very, very good club cricket. We were the only school doing A-levels in Zambia. And while I wasn't doing A-levels, I was actually in the first team at the time. So one played good club cricket against people coming up from South Africa, coming up from Rhodesia. So we were, I think, very mature cricketers for 15, 16, 17-year-olds. When I came to England, I found it very difficult playing school cricket. One would play on a wicket which turned a bit. I'd bowl my left arm spin. And the guy at Slip found it very difficult to catch quite often. I'd get frustrated. In the end, I achieved very little in school cricket, mainly out of frustration, I must say. Let's have another choice of record.

Phil Edmonds16:00

Well, the next choice is Bridge Over Troubled Waters. This really marks the transition from Cranbrook through to Cambridge University in the early seventies. This is yet another sort of folk classic. And again, it's something that I can listen to day in, day out and never get bored with it.

Speaker 216:18

Come break over troubled.

Speaker 216:26

I will lay the down like a bridge over trouble water.

Speaker 216:38

Lay me down.

Presenter16:49

Phil, I must put to you a a quote that I came across of your wife, Frances, who met it at university, and she described you at university as being an intolerable prat.

Presenter16:58

She said he really was awful. Would you care to elaborate?

Phil Edmonds17:02

Uh actually I don't think she's changed her mind for all these years. But having said that, we met in 1972. It's now eighty six, so we've been together fourteen years, we've been married for ten. It can't be too bad. I must say when I met her I thought who is this pretentious young lady? What a suit It didn't stop me uh sort of getting every excuse to go and see her, but uh I think we've developed a happy relationship.

Presenter17:25

And you've certainly it's a profitable one too. I mean uh Frances, now apart from her work as a as a translator, has written a book about uh a tour, uh the last tour of the West Indies, a very good book to actually, a funny book called Another Bloody Tour, which really gives a sort of the feminine side or view of of of these cricket jaunts that you go on round the world. I mean it upset one or two people, I think, because of its frankness. I just thought it was very amusing. What was your feeling about it?

Phil Edmonds17:50

Well, I think Frances really is the funniest, wittiest person I've ever met in my life. And also, she's a very capable writer, and she's able to translate that natural wit onto the page. And therefore, on the tour, for instance, on that particular tour, she would just present me after a couple of days with a chapter, and I'd fall around laughing, right, the whole evening. It did upset a few people, as you say, but on the other hand, you know, we're all good mates. Frances is the most naturally gregarious person there is. She's very much a social chameleon. She's very much, I think, in the favour of the likes of Alan Lamb, Ian Botham, and go on. While Both, when he reads a particular snippet, which Francis quoted as saying, etc., etc., he will say to me, Well, next time I see Frances, I'm going to put a shotgun to her head. However, that doesn't stop him being the first fellow, say, Hey, Frances, let's have a drink when he meets her the next time. So it's all very friendly.

Presenter18:41

What about the executive?

Presenter18:42

What about the people who run crickets, who have this rather curious attitude in any case toward women, whether writing books or not?

Presenter18:49

But again as individuals

Phil Edmonds18:50

Jules, I think they they all love Frances. It's just as a corporate entity. They find it a little bit disconcerting that somebody like her really has the power of the sword in her pen, and they find that a bit frustrating. But it I suppose is a problem. They have this idea that women shouldn't be on tour because they distract their men. I, on the inside, have seen complete the reverse. The likes of Derek Randall, if you're going away for a four-month tour, there's nobody gets more upset and homesick than somebody like Derek Randall. And I know I was sharing with him in Sydney on one tour where he basically couldn't play the game because he was missing his wife so much. So I think it really is time that the powers that be look at that aspect of it. And if it takes somebody like Francis to write about it, to bring it to public attention, so be it.

Phil Edmonds19:33

Another choice of record, please, Phil.

Phil Edmonds19:35

Well, the next choice is Carly Simon. It was so easy then. Again, this harks back to my time at university when I just started playing first class cricket. I came along with the total colonial arrogance. Although I hadn't played much at school, I rated myself a pretty good player. And it was just quite fascinating to see people who were playing the game professionally, earning their living at it. And when I saw them playing, I thought, well, slightly in the Mac and Row mold, you cannot be serious. It really did seem easy then. I subsequently learnt, of course, that the same players were getting their fifteen hundred runs a season and very fine performance.

Speaker 220:12

When we took such cares To step Never on the cracks, No only in the squares Or else we'd be abducted by the bears

Speaker 220:23

It was so easy then, never making any plans. It was so easy then, holding hands.

Presenter20:40

Phil, you've been a professional cricketer now for, what, fourteen years or more?

Presenter20:44

Do you find it fulfilling?

Presenter20:46

WorldCap

Phil Edmonds20:46

Candidly, I now play, uh because of the buzz I get playing Test cricket.

Phil Edmonds20:51

and also because of the frustration of having a very staccatoed career, never quite having fulfilled what I regard as my potential, and that frustration really does drive me on.

Phil Edmonds21:01

Do I find it fulfilling? Well, obviously it's been a tremendous ambition to play for England. However, having achieved that ambition, one has to go a little bit further, and I think it is now the frustration of not having achieved what I believe to be my

Presenter21:13

Potentially keeps me going. What about being Captain of England? I mean a lot of people, as I said, including myself, think you'd make a remarkably good Captain of England. You'd obviously like the job. Sure.

Phil Edmonds21:21

Sure I would, but I fear that I fell out with uh the wrong people, perhaps at uh an inopportune time. At least it's because of those reasons, or that particular reason, that uh I haven't gone further on the responsibility stakes.

Presenter21:33

And who would these people be? They would include Michael Bridder, would he, who was your captain at Middlesex?

Phil Edmonds21:36

Mike Breley, very fine captain of Middlesex. I think what happened was that once he had got rid of the old guard he became captain in 1971, I think, of Middlesex. There was very much a a clique-ridden old guard then, with John Murray, Fred Titmuss, Peter Parford, etcetera. Once he had got rid of those fellows, and during that period I was very much an ally, or perceived to be an ally, I think he then started to see me as a little bit of a threat, and I'm afraid I was a bit outspoken on many occasions. I didn't tug the forelock when I had one, that type of thing. And well, that didn't stand me in good stead. And as Frances says in her book, Poor Philip, you fell out with a legend and a myth, and that isn't very sensible.

Phil Edmonds22:16

Let's have another choice of record.

Phil Edmonds22:18

Right, the next choice is Stevie Wonder. I just called to say I love you. As a professional cricketer, obviously, we're away from home a tremendous amount of time. Frances also in her job as a professional interpreter, spends a bit of time in Europe. So we spend quite a bit of time on the phone talking to each other, and this is for Frances.

Speaker 222:37

I just go

Speaker 222:39

Just saying

Speaker 222:42

I love you.

Speaker 222:45

I just go.

Speaker 222:48

To say how much I care

Speaker 222:54

I just called

Speaker 222:56

To say

Speaker 222:59

I love you.

Speaker 223:02

And I mean from the bar

Presenter23:07

As somebody who's toured quite a bit now, how have the pressures changed over the years? It seems to me, as an outsider looking in, that there's one great difference now, and that's the relationship between the press and the players. It's almost press versus players at present, isn't it?

Phil Edmonds23:19

Mm-hmm.

Phil Edmonds23:21

I think that's very true, but in many ways I blame the players for that. I've always taken the line that the press are there to promote the game and we've got a duty really to develop a relationship with them. So I've been quite close, I think, to the press most of the time. One has to be, I think, pretty hard nosed about these things. If one performs badly on the field, they're perfectly justified in in slating one, and one shouldn't take umbrage of that. Unfortunately, ninety nine percent of cricketers are super, super sensitive, and they take it totally wrongly, which then frustrates them and they become suspicious of the press. Then, of course, it becomes exacerbated by I think the likes of Bob Willis, who I'd like to think is a reasonable friend of mine, but he was so suspicious of the press that he engendered the same suspicion in his teammates and the the general relationship went from bad to worse and it hasn't really or needs to survive on this tour if we're going to achieve anything positive I think.

Presenter24:16

Phil.

Phil Edmonds24:16

Yeah.

Presenter24:16

Yes, that's one part of it. But the other part too, of course, is the intervention, if you like, or the introduction to the scenario of a different kind of reporter, the reporter who goes out not to report on cricket, but to report on the so-called scandals involving the Touring team.

Phil Edmonds24:30

Yeah, well I agree. But again, you know, it's a very high profile uh game that we play now. There's uh big money around. The boys are promoted through the media themselves, so they're very high profile. It's inevitable that any stories surrounding the team are going to be big news, particularly in the tabloids. Therefore surely the players should understand their responsibilities to the game, to the people at large. And if they want to go and uh indulge themselves in their so-called private lives in public, they've got to understand uh the consequences of that. Let's have another choice of record, please forget. Well, the next choice is Air on a G String by Bach.

Phil Edmonds25:09

Really, the only reason I've picked this is I find it so soothing and very, very relaxing. Just that, I just find it fabulous.

Presenter26:18

It was aired on a G string by Bach and it was recorded there by the Academy of Saint Martin in the Fields, conducted by Neville Mariner.

Presenter26:26

Phil, one of the things about you, of course, is that unlike a lot of cricketers, you don't have tunnel vision about the game itself. There is a life outside of it. For instance, you're a sort of entrepreneur, business wise, aren't you? A dilettante entrepreneur.

Phil Edmonds26:38

Uh

Presenter26:40

Uh

Phil Edmonds26:40

Definitely.

Presenter26:40

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds26:40

Uh

Presenter26:40

Uh

Phil Edmonds26:40

Uh

Presenter26:40

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds26:40

Involved in

Presenter26:41

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds26:41

Well, it's interesting. At the moment, we're having a bit of a hassle with Sears about the takeover of a little public company called Blacks. I must say, I do find doing business and participating at a reasonably high level produces the adrenaline in just the same way that PH Edmonds bowling to Alan Border produces a buzz. Involvement is everything. And one of the reasons that I do become frustrated with cricket is being a team game, obviously one is watching other people participating for a great period of time.

Speaker 227:13

Yeah.

Phil Edmonds27:13

I really now live for the times where I'm personally involved, which is one of the reasons, for instance, I like to feel very close to the bat. And if nothing's happening, I might at short leg feel ultra close. It's only to get something going, to participate all the time. And I find that in business.

Presenter27:30

Now finally, Phil, how do you look to the future then? Is it to be business when you leave cricket, or do you still see yourself being involved within cricket when you when you leave the game as a player?

Phil Edmonds27:39

Well, I'd certainly very much like to stay within the game in some capacity. I don't think it'll be on the full time administration because I have interest outside the game, considerable interest. But I'd certainly be keen to join the Middlesex Committee, for instance, Cricket Committee. And I'd also, I think, like to stay in the media.

Phil Edmonds27:59

At the moment, as a cricketer, I'm reasonably high profile. That gets into the blood somewhat. And I think I'd like to maintain that by perhaps doing your job. Not necessarily this one, but staying in the media. I'd be very keen on that. I think I've just had a job application.

Presenter28:17

Let's have your last record, Phil.

Phil Edmonds28:18

Well the last record is Ravel's Bolero. Again I like this because it builds up to a pretty stirring piece but really in essence it's the repetitiveness, the total simplicity of the piece which I do like and it's a theme that I've tried to pursue through life. Being reasonably straightforward and simple minded or singular minded hasn't got me too far on many occasions but simplicity I think is the essence.

Presenter29:43

As Rabel's Bolero, played by the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Andrei Prebin.

Presenter29:48

You're now on your desert island film, and you've got your eight records. Now you have to imagine now that seven are wiped away, you're left with but one. Which one would you want to preserve?

Phil Edmonds29:59

That's a very, very difficult choice. I think I might get a bit depressed eventually if I couldn't escape from the desert island, so one might need something very, very soothing. And I think I'd probably take air on a G string, I think. What about the book?

Phil Edmonds30:15

I'm not sure that I'd have the coast trying to escape from this place, and therefore I would probably want to learn as much about the island as I could, and therefore I'd like some book talking about the botany and uh the flora and fauna on the island. And what about the luxury objects?

Phil Edmonds30:30

I was going to think in terms of a dissection kit, but I don't suppose that's a real luxury. Dissection kit. Yeah, I went up to Cambridge to read medicine and haven't grown out of that. That might be useful on the desert island. So I don't suppose that's a luxury. But when we were in Jamaica, we had the privilege of going round the local cigar factory, Royal Jamaica Cigars. They produce the most magnificent handmade cigars in the world. And I'd probably take a big humidor full of Royal Jamaica cigars.

Presenter30:34

Duh.

Presenter30:58

And one final question before we leave. What's going to happen in Australia? Are we going to win the Ashes?

Presenter31:04

I think it'll be

Phil Edmonds31:04

Very competitive series. We're just coming out of our slough of Despond following the West Indies, our inferiority complex. I think we're coming out of that. The Aussies have had a rebuilding period. They're doing very well in India at the moment. They're going to come back full of spirit and competitiveness. And I think you'll find we'll do extremely well. Their success in India, I think, is going to do well for us in that Dean Jones scoring two hundred in Madras is going to bring back memories to Mike Gatting of his performance in India. So I think it'll be a very good series, and I'd like to think the Spinners will play a big part. Thank you.

Presenter31:38

Yeah.

Speaker 131:45

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