Roger Vadim

Speaker 40:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 40:08

The programme was originally broadcast in 1986, and the presenter was Michael Parkinson.

Presenter0:30

According to one critic, the biggest problem that our castaway has had to come to terms with is that his private life has been far more interesting to the general public than any film he chose to make. Indeed, if he made his life story into a film, the female leads would be played by Brigitte Bardot, Catherine Deneuve, and Jane Fonder, all of whom shared his life at one time or another. In spite of those distractions and others equally glamorous, he's made more than twenty films, written a novel, and published two volumes of autobiography. He is Roger Badime.

Presenter1:00

Roger, what sort of a background did you come from?

Roger Vadim1:04

My father was born in Russia, in Kiev, and left during the revolution, became a French citizen and French uh diplomat, he was a French consul. Then we were living out of France uh in Egypt, in Turkey, was going to be named uh in post at Jerusalem when during a summer in France I was very young and he was only thirty four he died suddenly from a heart attack.

Roger Vadim1:28

Which, of course, drastically changed our family lifestyle. What happened?

Roger Vadim1:34

He just died one morning when we were having breakfast in a little town in the mountains, French Alp, and uh few hours after he was dead, which is uh quite rare for such a young man. And my mother was left without money because, you know, he was just a diplomat such a little time that he didn't have time to have a

Roger Vadim1:52

Good or tight.

Roger Vadim1:54

Soon after that.

Roger Vadim1:56

It was World War Two.

Roger Vadim1:58

Then not only my mother had to face the problem of raising alone two children, I have a sister.

Roger Vadim2:05

but also to uh find the food. You know there is a German occupation, you know that in England. It was not easy and it was certainly not easier in France. Luckily enough, we were always more in the countryside or in the mountains than in a big town, which make it easier.

Presenter2:19

What about your education in this time, both when your father was alive and travelling the world, and also when you were living in in France?

Roger Vadim2:26

I mean, how many schools did you go to?

Presenter2:27

Yeah.

Roger Vadim2:27

Yeah.

Roger Vadim2:28

two or three out of France, then at least ten or fifteen during the first part of the occupation and the war. I even did uh work more than six months or one year by correspondence, you know, you send your homework by letter and you get the answer from the teacher. Then I in Paris, that was one of the last places I were, and uh it was quite hectic.

Roger Vadim2:52

But maybe it was not that bad because after all uh

Roger Vadim2:55

As a young man, I was only eighteen years old when I did sell my first screenplay, which is a proof that my education maybe was not uh lost.

Presenter3:04

Let's have a first choice of music, what's the record to be?

Roger Vadim3:08

That will be three gymnopedie or gymnopedie, depending on how you pronounce it, by Eric Sati. It's piano. And uh I've chosen that because it's maybe the first piece of piano music I ever heard. My father was a very, very good pianist. He was first prize of the Varso Piano Conservatory.

Roger Vadim3:26

And he was playing.

Roger Vadim3:28

For me often, and that is one of the more so that I remember.

Presenter4:35

Roger, you mentioned that during the war, during the occupation of France, you and your mother were there by yourselves for a while, or with your sister. How dangerous a time was it for for the family?

Roger Vadim4:45

It was the place where a lot of uh underground activity were going. It was the French Alps. Not only because people were hiding there, but also because it was a good place to escape France through the Swiss border.

Roger Vadim5:00

Actually, uh we had at several times people hiding at our place.

Roger Vadim5:05

And uh I did help them.

Roger Vadim5:07

When they were chased by the Germans, to uh go through a pass called Col de Cou, uh through the border into Switzerland.

Presenter5:15

What kind of people were these?

Roger Vadim5:17

Well, mostly Jewish people who couldn't stay in France any longer. Sometime uh it will be uh people who were fighting underground but who have been uh discovered by the SS and had to leave.

Roger Vadim5:31

specifically because if they were caught by the Germans they may have been tortured and talked, they knew too many things, and they it was safer to go. One of the persons who came to hide there was a very, very interesting uh man. He was a little younger than my mother.

Roger Vadim5:46

He was a collaborator of the French architect Le Corbusier, and the name of this man was Gerald Hanning. He became my stepfather.

Presenter5:56

Was he a a big influence on you?

Roger Vadim5:58

Yes, uh he was a a man extraordinary. He taught me a lot of different things. He was actually more like an older brother than uh really a father.

Roger Vadim6:08

Among other things, for example, I started even very young to know and read uh the Dadaist and the Surrealist.

Roger Vadim6:17

Also uh introduce me to classic music. We were listening to a lot of classic music during the occupation.

Roger Vadim6:23

We had no movie, no T V, of course, and it was a a good way to pass the time.

Presenter6:30

I should imagine, actually, in those times, with all the danger and the excitement of those times, that you'd grow up very quickly, wouldn't you?

Roger Vadim6:36

It's not really the danger will make one uh grow up uh fast. It's the spectacle of people around you. In a situation like that, you really discover who people are. You see some old man who seems like he will never do anything in his life and he he becomes so courageous he's killed instead of giving away some names. You see some uh generals

Roger Vadim6:59

who always talk about uh their country and uh morality and uh then they will uh do anything to make money or to give away the name of some Jewish people because they don't like them. And I had a vision of humanity, quite special. Maybe it was uh I could have been very uh cynical when uh the war end. Instead I just learned to be curious about life.

Presenter7:22

Let's have a second choice of record, Roger. What is this?

Roger Vadim7:25

I was mentioning classical music that my stepfather introduced me to, and it's uh one of the little piece in a very long piece called Matthew's Passion by Johan Sebastian Bach.

Speaker 47:39

Helps the Lord, says the glory,

Speaker 48:06

I have satellite meetings

Speaker 48:21

A bird

Presenter8:38

Roger, let's now move on to After the War, and you're a a teenager. Do you have any ambitions to be then a film director or?

Roger Vadim8:45

No, at that time it was more an accident. And remember that by the end of the war, the occupation in France, my idea was to be like my father, a diplomat, and to write. I said, I can be a diplomat and write books. I've always been writing even as a teenager or a kid.

Roger Vadim9:01

But uh the idea to spend again at least five or six years studying in a classroom.

Roger Vadim9:09

It was too much for me, and on the way to my school

Roger Vadim9:13

I stopped in a theater called Sara Bernard Theatre and decided to try to be an actor.

Roger Vadim9:20

And it did work very well, but I didn't feel that I was made to be an actor.

Roger Vadim9:24

Then I got involved in movies. I started to be assistant to a film director. I started to write screenplay.

Roger Vadim9:32

At this moment I thought that maybe it will be a good idea to become a film director, but it was really difficult. The fashion was not to use young directors. I mean average age for a director was about the age I'm today, over fifty.

Roger Vadim9:48

And I didn't want either to wait ten years before to be able to direct a movie. But

Roger Vadim9:53

You know I've

Roger Vadim9:54

Discover that sometime in life if you really want to do something, it does happen.

Presenter9:58

Before you we move on to talk about Moise and your time as a director, it seemed to me looking at the books you've written that um there was a point where you could have been whisked away from all your ambition. You had to do national service. In those days in France it was three years. Now you didn't do it.

Roger Vadim10:12

Yeah.

Presenter10:12

Why?

Roger Vadim10:14

washed everywhere of my ambition, but from my first marriage that happened uh few weeks after I got married to Brigitte Bardot.

Roger Vadim10:21

And it was not only the beginning of my career, but also the beginning of my love life.

Roger Vadim10:26

Yeah.

Presenter10:26

Oh wait.

Roger Vadim10:26

Yeah, there's

Presenter10:26

Yeah, those are compassionate

Roger Vadim10:28

Breathe.

Presenter10:28

Uh

Roger Vadim10:28

Hello

Presenter10:28

Not going in the army.

Roger Vadim10:29

Uh

Presenter10:29

Uh

Roger Vadim10:29

I

Presenter10:29

Brisbane B

Roger Vadim10:29

And it was three years at the time. Yes, it was. Imagine.

Speaker 210:32

Yes.

Presenter10:33

See what Imagine.

Roger Vadim10:34

then I was a little upset. I had managed not to go directly in the army, but to go in a military hospital. You stay there a few weeks, a few months, and they decide if your health is good enough to be sent away.

Roger Vadim10:48

The day the morning when I was supposed to arrive at the military hospital in Paris

Roger Vadim10:53

I was late, like always. And I said to Brigitte, Well, I'm going to take the car.

Roger Vadim11:01

And she said, And you are going to leave the car in front of the cazan of the hospital for three years? I said, I don't know, we will see.

Roger Vadim11:07

Then I take the car.

Roger Vadim11:10

And I discover driving to the military hospital that it's a strike in Paris. There is no bus and no subway.

Roger Vadim11:18

That started to give me an idea. I arrived at the hospital and I learned that the Major, the doctor in charge of the military hospital, just came back from Indochina.

Roger Vadim11:29

had a young wife,

Roger Vadim11:30

And was very, very upset because he had to spend his night in the hospital instead of spending his night in his wife's bed. Then I l let the rumor go in the hospital that a car was in front of the place. Of course, ten minutes after, the major called me and said, Well, you know, I heard you have a car there. I said, Yes. And he said, Do you want me to drive you to your place tonight? I'm just living not far from you, which was true. He said, Yes, please.

Roger Vadim12:00

Then I went with him through Paris. He slept with his wife. He was very pleased. The next morning I took him uh and brought it back to the hospital. In the meantime, you should have seen the face of uh

Roger Vadim12:12

Brigitte Bardo said already finished the three years military service. I was back home three, four hours after I left. I said, well, it looks like it it's going to be uh all right. And after that, I never slept at the hospital, I just went back with my uh new friend, the the majeur.

Roger Vadim12:30

And also that is really something very unjust in life. A lot of young men, peasants, were really in bad shape. I mean, some were fainting, some other had a seizure, some couldn't walk, the other one had a bad heart.

Roger Vadim12:45

They were all taken for the army. And I was the only one I was always told before the doctor will arrive and I was taking some, I don't know, some speed to have my heart beating strongly. I was the only one who was sent back home.

Speaker 212:58

Yeah.

Roger Vadim12:58

Uh

Presenter12:59

I think it's

Roger Vadim12:59

Injustice.

Presenter12:59

That can't be bad. What about uh another choice of record, your third choice? What's it to be?

Roger Vadim13:02

Yeah.

Roger Vadim13:09

Now we are maybe back into my first movie. Actually, it is my second movie. I'm talking about a movie called C'est ten Jamais in French and Nossan in Venice in English. A lot of people think it's my best movie, even though you don't have Bardot or Deneuve or Fronde in the cast.

Speaker 213:18

An angle

Roger Vadim13:27

I decided to use some jazz music for the musical score, and I chose MGQ who did improvise the music on the film that I was screening for them. And here's a little piece of this music.

Presenter14:42

Roshi Bardim, the first film that you made was called On God Created Woman. The subtitle was on the Devil Created Bardot. And even though she had made films before that, this is the film that made her into a huge international star and and made your name as well. It created a lot of moral outrage at the time. There's a huge controversy about it.

Presenter14:59

But why was that?

Roger Vadim15:01

It in fact was on two levels.

Roger Vadim15:03

One level was just that this movie in a certain way was a little

Roger Vadim15:08

In advance on its time, as far as the

Roger Vadim15:11

new freedom of women were concerned. The character that I created for Brigitte Bardot was a young woman who had absolutely no shame of her body, no sense of guilt about feeling uh sexual attraction for men. And Brigitte was doing that with such a delicious but irreverent way.

Roger Vadim15:31

That it becomes difficult for people to accept it. It's not that there was so much nudity in the movie.

Roger Vadim15:39

There was some, but not more than in some other movies. But it was a character of this girl who created, to my surprise, quite a shock and a big scandal in a lot of different countries.

Roger Vadim15:50

The second level is more personal. It's because I was married to Bridget Bardot.

Roger Vadim15:56

And I did some naked scene and love scene on the set. And people at this time saw that that was very scandalous. Since now, you know that a lot of uh directors have done the same thing with the the person they live with, married or not.

Roger Vadim16:12

But at the time, I don't know why, I've started a kind of fashion and people thought was terribly scandalous. And in a certain way, my name has always been uh attached to the word scandal because of this moment. Now it's because I talk about the woman I've been in love with in a book.

Roger Vadim16:28

Maybe uh it will

Roger Vadim16:30

be considered as normal in few years, but

Presenter16:33

Roger Vadin, let's have your fourth choice of record.

Roger Vadim16:35

Then we approach the sixtieth. Nobody can go through this period without remembering the Beatles, and I'm like a lot of people.

Roger Vadim16:44

person who loves the Beatles and uh I just want to listen again to a a little song called While My Guitar Gentle Whit.

Speaker 416:55

Look at you all see the love but sleeping

Speaker 417:04

The Mike Donkey

Speaker 417:10

Look at the floor, and I see it needs sweeping.

Speaker 417:20

Smell my guitar

Presenter17:24

Our castaway this week is the film director and writer Rajiv Adim.

Presenter17:28

Roger, can I ask you because you had first-hand experience of this more than most people I suppose. It seems to me that the film industry, television, any industry where a woman has to appear in public, it's a much more dangerous and, I don't know, difficult life for them than a man. I mean, for someone like Bardot, for instance, I mean, she lives her life under a Zoom lens. Wherever she goes, people make judgments, not about herself as an actress, but as a woman, as a physical thing. The way she looks. The way she looks.

Roger Vadim17:54

The question no.

Roger Vadim17:56

That's a an injustice at any political uh

Roger Vadim18:00

Feminist movement haven't yet uh solved. It's true that

Roger Vadim18:04

Women have to take more care of their body and their face when they get older. I think, for example, of Jen Fonda. When I did Barbarella, she was specifically beautiful and sexy in this movie. And that was the moment she started a big campaign for the movement of women's liberation.

Roger Vadim18:22

And she said, No, I don't want to be admired for my beauty or or my body. I want to be admired for what I am, my talent. Uh I don't care about the way I look. Now

Roger Vadim18:34

Twenty Years After It's Another Song.

Roger Vadim18:36

She spent a lot of time, and I must say she succeeded.

Roger Vadim18:41

to keep in shape and to stay as beautiful as she was, she uh has to exercise a lot and she she wants to look beautiful and uh good. When they are at the peak of their beauty, uh woman may pretend that they don't want to be loved for their appearance. Still they have this problem later on and they try to get young as long as it's possible.

Presenter19:02

Now, you you've been criticised recently for writing about three of your wives well, in fact, two wives and one person, uh Catherine Deneuve, who you live with, had a child by Bardot, Deneuve, and Fonda. It seems to me that a lot of the criticisms come specifically from women. Would that be fair and true?

Roger Vadim19:18

At least there is one woman who didn't say that. It's uh Jeanne Fonda when I gave her the manuscript to read before it was print in case things could uh harm her political image. I mean, I didn't want to write things by accident, w could uh upset her.

Roger Vadim19:35

And we discussed that, and she said, Well, you are a writer, you have always been a writer and a journalist, you are entitled to tell.

Roger Vadim19:42

The story, the way you see it, after all, all the magazines since twenty years or more, thirty years have.

Roger Vadim19:49

Tell the story their own way. It's fine. And she added, After all, in this matter you are a good feminist.

Roger Vadim19:57

because I always told her I was for equality of sex. She said, and it's true, that when a woman write a book of memoir and a lot did about her ex husband or ex lovers,

Roger Vadim20:09

It's considered as very charming when Simone Signore tells the story of her her husband. It's a charming book, by the way, that she wrote. And I don't know what happened with Marian Monroe. People think it's great. If it's a man,

Roger Vadim20:25

It's a lack of chivalry, it's not gallant.

Roger Vadim20:29

And really I don't see why. If it has to be

Roger Vadim20:32

different two ways, then I want to have the possibility to be like men were half a century ago. You know, just uh

Roger Vadim20:41

a good, good sexist, right? But you can't at the same time want the equality and pretend it's one thing for a woman and another thing for a man. Therefore, on this level, I don't feel guilty at all. Of course, the book is nice and charming and I'm very tender and respectful of those women. I wouldn't write uh horrible things or things which can harm their image.

Presenter21:03

Let's have another choice of record. Record number five.

Roger Vadim21:07

Rocco Number Five is also a romantic piece on classic music.

Roger Vadim21:12

Richard Stross, and it's sung by Jesse Norman, I like voices, and that is one of the most extraordinary voices we have.

Presenter22:22

Roger Barim, you've made films with all your ex-wives and girlfriends. Have you ever thought of putting them all together and making one huge blockbuster movie?

Roger Vadim22:31

Well, a lot of producers thought of that, for obvious reasons.

Roger Vadim22:35

it's not uh something which is going to happen. Even though one time I did see them in a studio all together, I was shooting a a movie in Paris, my first movie with Jean Fonda, and I broke my shoulder on the set.

Roger Vadim22:49

And this day I don't remember why, Annette Stroburg, my second wife, was visiting me.

Roger Vadim22:56

Then I was waiting for the ambulance with Jane and Annette Stroiberg.

Roger Vadim23:01

When Katrine Deneuve arrived, because she was rehearsing in in a stage next door on the same studio.

Roger Vadim23:08

Now we are the four of us in the ambulance.

Roger Vadim23:12

And ambulance at the moment we leave the studio, we stop by a car getting in the studio.

Roger Vadim23:18

It was really that is too much. Brigitte Bardo going to have a a fitting, I think, at the studio for a next movie. And she asked, But wh who is in there?

Roger Vadim23:27

Then the guard said it's Roger Vadim. She said, Oh, my God Then she get out of the car and get in the ambulance. I must say that uh even though my bone hurted me a lot, I did appreciate the moment.

Speaker 223:40

It has living all your life before you, looking down at you.

Roger Vadim23:44

At the same time, it's better to laugh about that because it's true that it's not easy.

Roger Vadim23:49

When you have been living with and promoting such uh interesting and famous woman.

Roger Vadim23:55

to escape the shadow, you know, it will uh always be there.

Presenter23:58

There. Let's have another choice of record. Record number six.

Roger Vadim24:01

Necon number six, it's a little more modern.

Roger Vadim24:05

It's by Brian Ferry and it's called, maybe a little joke on my side, Slave to Love.

Speaker 424:17

Niggas of play

Speaker 424:20

The tide ring

Speaker 424:24

There are no escaping ten women.

Speaker 424:30

You got to know

Speaker 424:33

Let's go get we

Presenter24:43

Roger, you've got four children by four different women. Does it ever get confusing who belongs to who and who is?

Roger Vadim24:50

Yes, specifically for someone who has sometimes tendency to be absent-minded, right? It's uh one of the times where really I

Roger Vadim24:59

I was close to uh the catastrophe was uh I did spend the summer with all my kids, they were three.

Roger Vadim25:05

Only at this time the last one was not yet born.

Roger Vadim25:08

with me in Los Angeles. And I was going to start a movie for MGM, then send back the children to their mother. And Jane Fonda was in London, Catherine Deneuve in Paris, and Annette Stroburg, the mother of my oldest daughter, in Rome.

Roger Vadim25:24

At this time all the Fly for Europe uh used to start from the same building in uh Los Angeles. And I had three tickets endorsed from uh TWA or Panam or uh Air France.

Roger Vadim25:38

The name of the children was just written Children Vadim with a letter.

Roger Vadim25:42

Then we kiss goodbye, we all cry and

Roger Vadim25:47

And I leave the airport.

Roger Vadim25:49

And just when I was going to leave the airport, I'm paged and I go to Air France and say, What happened? I said, Sir, since that we have the ticket, it seems there is a little uh mistake. I said, What?

Roger Vadim26:00

I had sent the wrong child to the wrong mother. Not one were going to see the right mother. Christian to Rome, Rome, etc. I spent my whole evening calling the mother and said, sorry, but you are not going to get the one you expect.

Roger Vadim26:15

And how did the mothers take it in the children? Remember that

Speaker 226:17

Alright.

Roger Vadim26:17

Yeah, well Katrin has always a tendency to be a l a little grouchy uh about those sort of things, but they all knew the other children.

Presenter26:26

What about your children? Are m any of them going to follow your footsteps into the movie industry? Any of them want to be actors?

Roger Vadim26:31

At the moment, the only one who said uh he was going to be an actor and doing it and doing it well is my son, Christian, the son of Catherine Deneuve. He's twenty two. My oldest daughter didn't want to be an actress but loved ambience of the movie industry. And she decided to be a assistant director. It's what she's doing and very successful in America at the moment. Vanessa, she's just at the university, Braun University at the moment. She's only seventeen and uh she hasn't decided what she wants to do. I mean of course the shadow of her mother was so

Roger Vadim27:04

Known

Roger Vadim27:05

May for one moment disturb her and uh she is not going to say, I am going to be an actress, but maybe it's what she wants to do.

Presenter27:12

Do they ever ask your children about getting married, about relationships? And if so, what do you tell them?

Roger Vadim27:17

You know children are much more advanced than people think.

Roger Vadim27:21

They really know a lot of things and it's only in the head of parents that they think they don't uh know things. What I've tried to do was always to be very close and very friend, not only the father, but also the friend. Like that they talk to you, you know what's going on. And it's much less dangerous than to be too strict and then they do things, however, but they don't talk about it.

Roger Vadim27:44

It's not at the moment for them.

Roger Vadim27:47

yet question to be married. My son certainly doesn't want to be married. He has a good time with a lot of girls. He's very pleased. Vanissa is only seventeen. And my oldest daughter, uh well, she's like me, she's not specifically in a hurry to get married.

Roger Vadim28:02

But if one day someone said, I want you to marry me and it's only way to please a a man, maybe she will do it.

Presenter28:10

Let's go to a another choice of record now.

Roger Vadim28:13

We are talking about children, then that brings us of course to relation between father and children, and I chose a very, very nice song of Judy Collin called My Father.

Speaker 428:24

My father always promised us that we would live in France.

Speaker 428:36

We'd go boating on the sand

Speaker 428:41

And I would learn to dance.

Presenter28:51

Roger, in your book of memoirs you've spent some time looking back at your career. Let's now look forward for just a moment. What's the future for Roger Vardin?

Roger Vadim28:59

I have two movies, and this time I'm very pleased because it's a movie I really wanted to do, and I was working on that for quite a while. One is going to start in September in United States. It's for the studio Warner Brothers.

Roger Vadim29:12

The other one it's a comedy.

Roger Vadim29:14

Story of the last witch on earth, very special good but special witch and I will start that I think next spring.

Presenter29:23

Let's have a final choice of record.

Roger Vadim29:25

Then uh maybe

Roger Vadim29:27

It will be a good conclusion to our conversation if we listen to Edith Piaf the song is No, I Regret Nothing in French.

Speaker 429:37

No, yeah, no, Joe Norbure.

Speaker 429:47

Niger beyond my piga mal.

Speaker 429:55

Tusa me bianega

Speaker 430:01

Holy yaga!

Presenter30:07

So, Roger, you're now on your desert island.

Presenter30:10

Would you be any good on a desert island? Or are you a practical man? Could you look after yourself?

Roger Vadim30:14

Yes, uh I've been very happy for the few period in my life when I was a a bachelor and I think I could

Roger Vadim30:21

Survive that quite easily.

Presenter30:23

What about record? And you have to imagine that seven records are wiped away of your eight, and one you're left with. Which would it be?

Roger Vadim30:29

I will keep uh edit pf.

Presenter30:32

And what about the book?

Roger Vadim30:34

I think I will take with me a book

Roger Vadim30:37

From a French writer called Louis Ferdinand Céline and the title of the book is Death in the Instalment. You want to know why?

Speaker 230:45

Bye.

Roger Vadim30:45

First, it's a great book, but it's one of the books who show in the most terrible way the misery of being a human being in a certain society. Then if I'm alone in an island, I don't want to regret what is happening on the rest of the continents.

Roger Vadim31:00

And what about the luxury object?

Roger Vadim31:02

Uh it will be my chess computer.

Presenter31:04

Your chess computer.

Presenter31:06

We'd have to make it solar powered will be or something like that.

Roger Vadim31:09

Well, I will have a little problem with electricity from the contact.

Presenter31:11

Roger Vardin, thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

Speaker 431:22

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk/radio four.