Jane Glover

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty six, and the presenter was Michael Parkinson.

Presenter0:30

A castaway has spent a lifetime immersed in music. She's a conductor, artistic director of the London Mozart Players, and musical director of the London Call Society. In her spare time, if she has any, she's managed to make a name for herself on television, particularly when presenting the series Orchestra and Mozart for BBC One. She is Jane Dlover. Jane, was there any doubt at all that uh you'd do anything other than music as a career?

Jane Glover0:54

Oh, yes. When I was nine, I wanted to be a policewoman.

Presenter0:58

Why a police woman?

Jane Glover1:01

I couldn't tell you. It it didn't last very long. After that I certainly was playing a lot of music and, you know, learning music, as a lot of children do. And I had recognised that there was something instinctive in me which responded to music. But I didn't think I'd necessarily articulated that I was going to be a musician. For a long time I wanted to be an actress, you know, as all schoolgirls do.

Presenter1:23

What sort of family do you come from though? I mean, was there a lot of music in the family?

Jane Glover1:26

We are not essentially a musical family, it's an academic family, though my parents were keen amateur musicians in the sense that they sang with choral societies and that sort of thing. So there was always music on the periphery of the home, though not necessarily in it.

Presenter1:40

Let's go to your first choice of music now. What's your first record on your desert island?

Jane Glover1:45

Well, it's always so difficult when no one has played this game, Desert Island Discs, for years. When it comes to one's own choice, it's absolute agony.

Jane Glover1:54

I could easily take eight records by Mozart.

Presenter1:57

Why?

Jane Glover1:58

Because in a way, ultimately he answers all one's needs, for me anyway, and there is so much in him of variety and and depth that, you know, I could I could even pick eight Mozart piano concertos and take those. But don't worry, I'm not going to be quite as monothymatic as that. But I think we we should start with one of the Mozart piano concertos. And then again the difficulty of choosing which one. I practically got to the point of just putting the pin on the page. But rather like uh Shakespeare plays, I find that Mozart piano concertos, your favourite is the one you've done most recently, or heard most recently, and actually the one I have done most recently, is is the E flat concerto K two seven one.

Presenter3:42

It's been interesting, Jane, actually being with you while you've been selecting the records. You've been meticulous in choosing a particular part of a record. Why did you choose that particular part of that particular concerto?

Jane Glover3:52

Well, of course we are up against time for a start, and while we can only play bleeding chunks, then it's nice if the bleeding chunks have some sort of a beginning and a middle and an end. With that bit, it does actually incorporate what I think is um two of the greatest bars in all music. Um I'm not going to sing them to you, but they are there, where to put it simplistically really, time stops. It's just one of those moments when Mozart grabs you and you simply can't do anything but listen to those bars. That's why I could take him with me all the time, you know, eight records of Mozart I could easily do, because he just takes you unawares like that in the most marvellous way.

Presenter4:30

Let's go back now to the start, to your childhood. You mentioned you're part of this academic background. Your father, in fact, was headmaster at a public school, wasn't he? And you mentioned also the fact that you played instruments. What instruments did you play first of all?

Jane Glover4:36

So at a public school, wasn't he?

Jane Glover4:41

Piano as a very small child, not very well, but, you know, enough. And I it was then realized, I think, that I had some sort of musical talent, though I was bone idle, of course, about practising like most children. And then I took up the oboe when I was about nine or ten and um did a lot of playing as a teenager, you know, youth orchestras and all that.

Presenter5:02

Was the ambit was the ambition then perhaps to be a a solo musician? Was that forming in your mind?

Jane Glover5:06

No, not really. I I really didn't know what I wanted to be with music. I perhaps did think that I might become an oboist, and even toyed with the idea of going to the Royal Academy of Music or something, and studying it as a as a first instrument. But eventually I didn't do that. I I went to university and read music as a an academic subject, which left all that spare time, when one isn't actually writing essays or going to lectures, to make music anyway.

Presenter5:30

Did the thought ever occur to you in in those days that that perhaps one day you might end up being what you are now, a conductor?

Jane Glover5:35

No, I don't think it did at all. I mean, conducting was something that happened really while I was at Oxford. I was tremendously lucky in being part of an absolutely wonderful year of musicians.

Jane Glover5:47

many of whom have gone on to become conductors too. And so because all my friends were getting up and conducting concerts, I did too, and it seemed to work, and nobody seemed to think this was a crazy idea. And one thing led to another, really. But even then I didn't immediately decide to try and make a living as a conductor, because uh I stayed on being an academic after my undergraduate years and did a doctorate.

Presenter6:09

The next choice of record is a memory, in fact, of those days, isn't it?

Jane Glover6:13

Yes, I did quite a lot of singing when I was at Oxford, both with the the Schola Cantorum and also with the Clerks of Oxenford, both of which specialise, but particularly the Clerks of Oxford, in sixteenth century music. And standing in those wonderful chapels and singing Bird and Talis and Taverner was quite the most wonderful experience always. And even now, when I listen to music of this period, I can just remember

Jane Glover6:39

Standing in St. Maudelin Chapel or Merton Chapel, singing Bird and Talis, and never wanting to do anything else ever again, just to go on doing all that. And so I've chosen actually the forty-part motet, Sperminalium, by Talis, which is sort of one voice apart, and I remember doing that many times. And it's this marvellous combination of

Jane Glover7:01

Music that is

Jane Glover7:02

majestic and monumental on the one hand, and yet

Jane Glover7:06

Marvellously intimate on the other, you feel you're making chamber music and at the same time you're building cathedrals.

Jane Glover8:11

It's so difficult to stop a piece like that, of course, because the texture of forty parts and the and the counterpoint means that it doesn't actually stop till you get to the end.

Presenter8:18

When you were at at Oxford, you researched seventeenth century Venetian opera there. You wrote a book about it, didn't you? Eventually, yeah. Eventually. Not a very good one. But I just wondered why you chose that particular moment in time.

Jane Glover8:23

Yeah.

Jane Glover8:25

Eventually, not a very good one.

Jane Glover8:32

What, the 17th century Venice? Well, it was not as I was often accused because Venice was a nice place to go and work, which indeed it was, and I did spend four years divided between Oxford and Venice, which isn't a bad way to spend four years. But I had got very hooked on the Baroque period of music, Purcell, Monteverdi, Vivaldi, Handelbach, while I was at Oxford. And the great sort of wave of looking at 17th century music with authentic instruments and that sort of thing was just beginning to happen as I was leaving Oxford. And a lot of research was being done into Monteverde operas and so on. And this name Cavalli came up, a pupil of Monteverdi's, and his operas started being done. There were a couple done at Gloinbourne. And I was completely bowled over by these pieces and I frankly leapt onto a bandwagon. I wanted to find out more about this chap, Cavalli, and one read in the sort of textbooks that that he'd written over thirty operas and we'd heard two of them. I thought, what heavens, what are the others like? So I went to find out.

Presenter9:35

What was specific about Venice, though, in the scheme of things?

Jane Glover9:38

Oh, Venice was extraordinary. It was the place where opera effectively was born not exactly born, but where it took off. It was born in the in the courts and and could have been a rarefied court entertainment like the mask, which, you know, has absolutely sunk as an entertainment without trace. But opera became popular when it arrived at the public theatres in Venice in the mid seventeenth century, and became the thing that everybody went to see like everybody went to see the cinema in the in the nineteen thirties and forties and fifties. I mean, it had absolutely that excitement and that hysteria almost, and careers of stars were made and broken, and opera houses were run like businesses by fierce impresarios who held very tight reins on everything and everybody.

Presenter10:24

Let's go back now to the Oxford days and and the to the time when you first picked up a baton. Were you hooked from that very first moment on being a conductor?

Jane Glover10:33

That's quite difficult to answer. I suppose I found that it came fairly naturally. I mean, God knows what those performances were like now. I mean, one would be desperately ashamed of them if one heard them, you know.

Jane Glover10:43

the embarrassment of them

Jane Glover10:45

both what they sounded like and presumably what one looked like. I think one's technique as a conductor never stops developing and changing and with any luck improving. And so it was all probably quite raw and over the top then. And yet I suppose I felt that there was something in me that could, through the eloquence of gesture, transmit what I felt about the music and make it happen from the chap sitting in front of me.

Jane Glover11:11

But you know what university life is like. I mean, you just sort of go on from one thing to the next without really pausing to think about it. I knew I'd had a good time and I wanted to do it again.

Presenter11:19

It's strange, isn't it? I mean, it m you must have considered this too. It's everybody's power fantasy. It's the commonest power fantasy of all, to stand up in front of an orchestra with a baton and and make it do your will. It's in everybody, isn't it? Is it? I don't know. I it's in me. I mean, I want to do that. I'd love to be able to do that, and I can't.

Jane Glover11:37

Maybe we can come to some arrangement by the way.

Presenter11:39

Well, I would hope so, very much indeed.

Jane Glover11:41

But I must say also that the anxieties of it, in a sense, one one doesn't lose that either, you know, like all performers feel about going onstage or

Jane Glover11:50

Conducting concerts.

Jane Glover11:52

The agony never goes away, and that the nerves are still there, wherever you're playing, whoever with.

Presenter11:58

Ha ha.

Jane Glover11:58

And whoever too?

Presenter12:00

And if they weren't there, you wouldn't be very much good at the job like that.

Jane Glover12:02

Well, you would

Presenter12:03

I suppose get worried about it, yeah. Absolutely. Let's have another choice of record.

Jane Glover12:04

Okay, so

Jane Glover12:07

Well, Benjamin Britton is a composer for whom I feel quite passionately. I met him when I was quite young, as a teenager, and he was quite wonderful to me, as he was to all musical kids who who got in touch with him.

Jane Glover12:22

And meeting him when I was about fifteen or sixteen in a way changed my life. And at that time I was going through my Britain phase, like all fat teenagers do, and uh I sort of knew every note of music he'd written. And he gave me some tickets for Peter Grimes that he was conducting at Saddlers Wells Theatre. And coming up to London, we didn't live in London, and going to Saddler's Wells and hearing that Peter Grimes was quite one of the my first experience of catharsis, if you if you like. And so I've chosen Peter Grimes. It's a piece I've I've worked on since and I I now conduct Benjamin Britton quite a lot and it always feels like coming home in a sense for this reason. But I've chosen actually the one of the the four C interludes from Peter Grimes, which might be appropriate on Desert Island after all. And the one I've chosen is Dawn.

Presenter14:12

Jane, it interests me that you were turned down by the Guildhall School of Music for their conductor's course.

Jane Glover14:18

Oh, you rotter. You you have done your homework.

Presenter14:19

Okay.

Jane Glover14:21

Yeah.

Presenter14:21

But why was that?

Jane Glover14:23

Well, actually I never got as far as waving my arms around even. I they turned me down on the paperwork.

Presenter14:27

You didn't even get to the physical part of it.

Jane Glover14:29

No, the the only thing I can offer as an excuse is that uh it was literally the week after my finals at Oxford, and I had did have glandular fever at the time, so um I wasn't very complesmentis. But I didn't get to wave my arms round, as I say.

Presenter14:41

So how do you how do you therefore set about teaching yourself? How do you set about learning to be a conductor?

Jane Glover14:46

Well, there are really only two ways. One is by doing it and finding out yourself what works for you. And, of course, the other thing is to observe other people doing it. And I still learn an immense amount just from watching my colleagues.

Presenter15:01

Any ones in particular that you learn from?

Jane Glover15:04

I suppose my my greatest mentor is Bernard Hytink, who I've now worked with for many years. And Bernard I've always been completely convinced by, and every gesture of his is so eloquent and so charged with

Jane Glover15:17

with meaning. Simon Rattle, too, a great friend and colleague, is somebody I simply can't take my eyes off when when he's up there on the platform. Because again, the music flows out of every sort of sinew of him. And he's wonderfully clear and yet wonderfully expressive at the same time. And that's what one has to be, not a a great sort of floppy mess of gesture, you know, wallowing in one's own sort of ideas. But one has still has to be clear so people know where to play. And yet one doesn't want to be a metronome either. One ni wants to find some sort of

Presenter15:24

Yeah.

Jane Glover15:46

Shape and flow to the music.

Presenter15:48

Hmm.

Jane Glover15:49

I'm still trying.

Presenter15:51

But how important to you was Limeborn?

Presenter15:54

On this lineboard.

Jane Glover15:55

Galamgorn I feel is a almost an alma mater in a sense. I went there and joined the music staff, you know, and on the lowest possible rung as an incredibly bad pianist and repertoire. And um they realised quite soon that this wasn't my forte and they uh invited me to take over the chorus, which I did, and was chorus master there for four or five years. And then gradually the conducting came as well, and and then I ran the touring company at the same time. It's a place I love working. The standards are wonderful, really high standards, nice long rehearsal periods.

Jane Glover16:32

musical standards that you don't find anywhere else, I would say.

Jane Glover16:36

And of course marvelous people to work with. I I I went there because I really wanted to work with and for hiking and and I've never been disappointed.

Presenter16:42

It has a very special feel about it, doesn't it?

Jane Glover16:45

Well there aren't many opera houses in the middle of fields eloquent example, yeah.

Presenter16:48

Elicon record for choice of record. Thanks, Mar.

Jane Glover16:53

Well, it is in fact an opera, and we come back to Mozart. Cosi fantute it's an opera I've done now many times, indeed with Kleinborn. It's Mozart writing ensembles which are second to none. I don't think he ever bettered the sort of ensembles that he wrote in Cosy, and I've chosen the quintet from the first act, Di scriver miogni giorna.

Presenter18:09

Okay.

Presenter18:19

Jane, you are the artistic director of the London Mozart Players. I wonder how much you feel that that that position means you you hold his reputation in trust. Is there a special feeling of responsibility?

Jane Glover18:31

Gosh, what a terrifying thought

Jane Glover18:33

Well, always, yes. There's a responsibility to the music you're playing and the composer of it. And in that we play probably more Mozart than anything else, then obviously yes. But of course everybody else that plays Mozart is not by any means limited to us, so we can share it out.

Presenter18:49

Okay, let's have another choice of recording.

Jane Glover18:52

Chamber music just to contrast with all these forty part motettes and operas and so on. Uh again terribly difficult to choose, but Schubert really has to be around, so please can I have the A minor string quartet?

Presenter20:05

Jane, I think it was with the Gleinborn that you went first to to China, and you've been, what, a couple of times now, isn't it?

Jane Glover20:11

Yes. Martin Izep, a colleague, and I were sent from Gleinborn to work with the Central Opera Company in Peking as well, a phrase I've now used many times, but sort of Mozart missionaries. There is an idea that one of these days the the whole company will go over to the People's Republic and perform Mozart operas, and so we were sent really as an advance party to prepare the ground. What was it like? Extraordinary. Obviously the the the country is the sort of place that bowls you over anyway because of the the marvellous things they have in it, like um palaces and temples and great walls and so on. But even more than that, we were bowled over by the people we were working with and the immense depth of talent among them.

Jane Glover20:53

We had no idea what to expect really, because we first went in I think 1982 or three.

Jane Glover20:59

when we knew about instrumentalists coming from that part of the of the Far East, but singers hadn't really started coming out of the country at all, and so we really didn't know what to expect. But I will never forget the first morning we were there they said we'd like you to meet some of the people you're going to be si working with, and they all came out and sang to us.

Jane Glover21:16

And after the first one we sort of looked at each other and thought, Gosh, well that was pretty good, wasn't it? And then the second one came out, and that was even better. And by lunch time we felt like men on the moon. I mean, we'd heard voices that, you know, it was just it was a solid gold mine this, and and we were going to be there working with it for the next two or three weeks.

Presenter21:31

Mm-hmm.

Presenter21:36

You're obviously very happy there. I mean, the music apart, the musical experience apart. What was it about it that made you content there?

Jane Glover21:43

Well, we were made very welcome and as I say the work in itself was so rewarding. And where we are so lucky is that working with people in masterclass you work one-to-one and you get to know people quite well, even when there's no language really between you and you're sort of working entirely through interpreters. You actually get to know people very well and that was a pure joy to discover people who are so talented and dignified and noble really. I don't want to sound too wishy-washy about the whole thing and too sort of

Presenter22:15

Wishy Washi is very good for an expert channel, I suppose. W this Mozart missionary outfit, is it going to go anywhere else in the world? I mean, do you have a a sense of uh of mission or purpose anywhere else?

Jane Glover22:21

Yeah isn't

Jane Glover22:27

Well, I'd love to go. I'm sure Martin would too.

Jane Glover22:30

But we are going back, I think, to China for the third time. I mean, there's so much work still to do, and as soon as we are all invited we we'll certainly go back.

Presenter22:38

Another choice of of music now.

Jane Glover22:40

Handel is a composer I've actually loved certainly all my life, really. I it's it was hearing a performance of Messiah at the age of nine that really did make me think, oh yes, well maybe music is going to be important for me, though obviously one didn't think it very articulately. I've done a lot of Handel and am always satisfied and love doing it. I've chosen an aria from his oratorio Jephthah, which is Waft Her Angels Through the Skies, that marvellous prayer that Jephthah sings just before his daughter is to be sacrificed. Perhaps if I may just briefly tell a story about it. I was recently giving a tutorial on Handel Oratorios in Oxford and I was burbling on about this oratorio and indeed this aria and we looked at it and we discussed it and I ended up by saying, as I just have to you, that it is the most extraordinarily wonderful prayer for a departing soul. In fact, I said on the spur of the moment, I think I'd like to have it played at my funeral. And the undergraduate said, oh right, we'll remember that and wrote it down. Wasn't quite the response I'd hoped for.

Speaker 423:49

Wing breath through the sky.

Speaker 424:00

Often angels through the skies are above your birth.

Speaker 424:13

What are the

Speaker 424:23

Danger.

Speaker 424:26

Loft all through the sky.

Speaker 424:32

You often through the sky Our own God, Yona's your

Presenter24:49

Jane, there are not many woman conductors in the world of of music. Now you're smiling at me as I'm saying that, because you fall me off this subject, actually, but I feel I've got to talk to you about it. What do you find unacceptable about being called one of the few women conductors around?

Jane Glover25:06

It implies that because one is a woman that one is different as a conductor. Oh, as a conductor. What really matters is what the music sounds like, not what one is wearing, and that really is is I accept

Presenter25:10

One is a conductor.

Presenter25:17

I I accept that, but but nonetheless there is a curiosity value which you must accept that I mean there there aren't many of you around.

Jane Glover25:18

But

Presenter25:23

I mean, how many other women can you think of in Britain who actually do your job?

Jane Glover25:27

Oh, several. There are some marvellous young people coming up, and um I hope you'll have them on this programme in due course.

Presenter25:33

Tell me, I'm the now you're you're you're out there you're as a conductor and your job is to make this orchestra sort of work. How difficult is it? I mean, can orchestras be bloody minded?

Jane Glover25:44

Yes, in the same way that interviewers can be bloody minded. I mean, they are, after all, only human. A lot of people ask this question, and particularly perhaps of me and other women conductors, because it does look, when you stand in front of an orchestra of a hundred and twenty people, as if you are in some way waving a stick i in a

Jane Glover26:02

An authoritative way and sort of issuing orders as if on the the battlefield. And really, music making isn't like that at all. However many people you're working with, you are colleagues. You can't do it without them. They, well, perhaps can do it without you, but the idea is that you're all doing it together at the time. And I don't think we should ever underestimate the professionalism of the people one is working with. You know, they know that they're there to do a job and to give people pleasure and to get pleasure out of it themselves. And this is really what is so exciting about the music business is that it's a tremendously

Presenter26:24

Mm.

Jane Glover26:37

highly skilled profession for which people have trained over many years, and all this is coming together for, you know, this one concert tonight. And that excitement I I never lose.

Presenter26:49

But you see you didn't answer my question quite deliberately, because I asked you about orchestras being bloody minded. You're the conductor see you see a some kind of recalcitrant orchestra, don't you?

Jane Glover26:51

Yeah.

Jane Glover26:59

Occasionally, yes.

Presenter27:00

What do they do to the poor conductor?

Jane Glover27:05

Well, they haven't done what they did to you, I gather, Michael. They've never actually given me a whoopee cushion, but perhaps I shouldn't have said that.

Presenter27:11

That should be explained, now that should be explained. I did actually once do it. The young person's guide to the orchestra with the RPO and the brass section, who are all from the North Country as you know, put a whoopee cushion on myself and I walked out in immaculate in my evening dress and this awful raspberry went through the whole

Jane Glover27:22

Black.

Presenter27:27

So I know how hopeful they can be.

Jane Glover27:30

Yes, well I've never actually had that. But I suppose that's always the first time I really wish we hadn't started this conversation.

Presenter27:36

All right, let's let's I'll tell you what we'll do. We'll call it truce and we'll ask for some music.

Jane Glover27:36

Alright.

Jane Glover27:41

Right, well, Marla, please, desperately, das Liebfonder Erde, it just occurred to me actually that uh I want a bit of the upsheet, the farewell. It's um the most marvellous piece. It's actually about the third piece of of valedictory music I've chosen so far. I don't know whether this is intrinsically tied up with my departure to the island, but Waft Her Angels the Handle is is valedictory and so is the trio from Coisy. But please can I have another farewell with Marla?

Speaker 428:34

Let's go.

Presenter29:09

Jane, would you describe yourself as a as a very ambitious person?

Jane Glover29:14

No, not really. I've uh never had ambitions in the sense of thinking what I want to do next.

Presenter29:21

We've done very well in a very short time.

Jane Glover29:22

No, I've been very lucky.

Presenter29:24

Do you get the feeling it all might end tomorrow?

Jane Glover29:26

Very much so, yes. Very much so.

Presenter29:28

Would it bother you if it if it did? I mean, uh, is it a sense in which you'd sometimes want to be a housewife, see?

Jane Glover29:35

Oh yes, now I I think it'll be quite nice, actually. It's rather why I'm looking forward to going to my desert island. It's just quite nice to stop, this mad whirligig, for a bit.

Presenter29:43

Would you be any good on the desert island island in the in the practical sense? I mean, would you be able to sort of look after yourself? Could you build a house, do you think?

Jane Glover29:51

Oh, my goodness I I well, I think yes, I'm quite practical in that sense. I'm not very good at creepy crawlers, I have to say that. Those would terrify the life out of me. Anything that that flies and flaps and buzzes and bites.

Presenter30:03

Would you be able to swim away, perhaps?

Jane Glover30:05

Yes, but I'm a bit of a coward when I get out of my depth. I think perhaps I'd have to wait until somebody can pick me up.

Presenter30:10

So, in fact you'll be there for a long, long time.

Jane Glover30:13

I dare say.

Presenter30:14

All right. Last record to help your stay that bit more pleasant. What is it?

Jane Glover30:17

It is, uh, guess what, Mozart you can't go anywhere without the coda to the last movement of Mozart's last symphony, The Jupiter. It is the most breathtaking amalgam of five-part invertible counterpoint, just speaking technically for a second. And when you come to this coda, having performed the rest of the symphony, you sort of take off, as he does, and it is, from his point of view, absolutely effortless and yet exhilarating for all of us.

Presenter31:51

Jane, do you think that uh in the future you'll be spending a bit more time perhaps doing television? I'cause you've done two or three series for the BBC and you've done them very well too.

Jane Glover32:00

I enjoy it very much. Uh there's nothing actually in the pipeline at the moment, but I would like to, yes.

Presenter32:05

I mean, in in that sense you are an educator, aren't you? You're a you're a missionary again.

Jane Glover32:10

Oh, yes. I mean, I hope I'm not going to be a sort of didactic person all my life. But I enjoy imparting information as well as entertaining. I think it's it's a combination of the two.

Presenter32:20

Right on this desert island now, you have to make the choices, the important choices, about the book, apart from Shakespeare and the Bible. What's the book to be?

Jane Glover32:24

Mm.

Jane Glover32:28

This of course is quite the hardest part of this programme, one book. But I think it would have to be Virginia Woolfe for me, and please can I have the letters of Virginia Woolf? I think she would be such good company, and if I had the letters of her to read, then I would feel that I was in touch with somebody, and of course they're so marvellous to read.

Presenter32:49

One record, you have to imagine seven's gone away. I b I bet I can I can get it at the remote, so I want it.

Jane Glover32:53

Yes, it is. It would be kozzy, I think. I I would hang on to kozy.

Presenter32:57

And what about the the luxury item?

Jane Glover32:59

Well, I'm a bit worried about this. I'm not sure we're going to allow it. What I really want is a bathroom and full of sort of hot towels and um cupboards stuffed with lots of lovely things that make you smell nice and of course a cupboard for insect bites and first aid and all that sort of stuff. I think we're going to allow that. Oh, marvellous. Thank you very much.

Presenter33:15

I think we can allow that.

Presenter33:18

Jane Lover, thank you very much indeed.

Jane Glover33:19

Thank you.

Speaker 333:26

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 333:30

For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio form