Jorge Bolet

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty five, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

This week our castaway is the celebrated concert pianist George Bollette.

Presenter0:35

mister Willette, we're taking you away from cities and civilizations and concert halls. How well could you endure loneliness?

Jorge Bolet0:43

I think I wouldn't do too badly. I am not allergic to solitude. Do you play discs a lot?

Jorge Bolet0:52

Oh yes.

Jorge Bolet0:53

Yeah.

Presenter0:53

A p.

Jorge Bolet0:53

Uh

Presenter0:53

Big collection. Did you start collecting?

Jorge Bolet0:54

No, I don't have a big collection. I have a collection of records that I dearly love.

Jorge Bolet1:01

and that I like to listen to.

Presenter1:04

Now we've got to ask you to cut that collection down to just eight that would have to last possibly a long, long time on a desert island.

Presenter1:13

What's the first one?

Jorge Bolet1:15

The first would be the second piano concerto of Chopin by Joseph Hoffmann. Why do you choose that? Well, as you probably know, I grew up hearing all the great, great pianists of the century Hoffmann, Rachmaninoff, Levin.

Jorge Bolet1:31

Corteau, Mosevich, Friedman. That's a very impressive list.

Presenter1:34

Yeah.

Jorge Bolet1:37

And I always had really two gods, you might say. Hoffmann was one of them. Rachmaninoff, of course, was the other one.

Jorge Bolet1:46

And one of the great, great tragedies of our

Jorge Bolet1:51

centuries that Hoffmann never really made any

Jorge Bolet1:54

Commercial recordings. Whatever recordings we have of his are taken mostly from radio broadcasts.

Jorge Bolet2:03

and things like uh his fiftieth anniversary performance at the Metropolitan Opera House in New York.

Jorge Bolet2:10

Was done with one little microphone concealed in the footlights because he didn't know that it was being recorded.

Jorge Bolet2:19

But even in this not as great technically recording.

Jorge Bolet2:26

Still recalls to me the absolute great magic of his playing.

Presenter3:35

Part of the second movement of the Chopin Second Piano Concerto in F minor, with Joseph Hoffmann as soloist.

Presenter3:43

You were born in Cuba, mister Bollette. In Havana? In Havana, yes. One of a large family? Yes, I am the fifth of uh six children.

Presenter3:52

Now, you had a very musical elder sister, I believe. Yes, I did.

Presenter3:57

An older brother,

Presenter3:59

Yeah.

Jorge Bolet3:59

Played the Violin Later became

Presenter4:02

Um

Jorge Bolet4:02

Doctor

Presenter4:03

Alberto. Now, Maria, the musical one. She liked to give you piano lessons. How old were you when you started?

Jorge Bolet4:10

Uh she thought I was too young to start before I was about six and a half, seven.

Jorge Bolet4:17

But ever since I was an infant, of course, I was always beside the piano when she was practising.

Presenter4:26

We're playing outside?

Jorge Bolet4:28

No, that I didn't like to do.

Jorge Bolet4:30

I have never particularly been very fond of practising. Until what age did you study with Maria? Until I came to the Curtis Institute in Philadelphia at the age of twelve.

Presenter4:39

Had you appeared in public at that time?

Jorge Bolet4:41

Yes, I had played a couple of uh performances, not full length recitals, but maybe a half of a recital programme with other assisting artists. And uh I did play a performance of the Mozart D minor concerto with the Havana Symphony when I was about eleven.

Presenter4:59

Whose idea was it that you you should go to Philadelphia to the Curtis? Why Philadelphia rather than any other American college?

Jorge Bolet5:06

Well, there was a woman in Havana who had a typical nineteenth century salon at which the writers, poets, musicians, painters were invited. It was purely a cultural gathering.

Jorge Bolet5:21

and I played on several of those I was taken by some of the guests.

Jorge Bolet5:28

At one of those a sister in law of hers was visiting her.

Jorge Bolet5:33

And she must have heard Amelia comment that she thought that I should really come to the United States to study.

Jorge Bolet5:41

And when her sister-in-law returned to the United States.

Jorge Bolet5:46

She sent her a clipping from a newspaper about the Curtis Institute of Music had been founded just two years before, Joseph Hoffman, director. And this is the great Joseph Hoffman we've just been listening to.

Presenter5:56

This is the

Jorge Bolet5:59

and it was to be a very select school only for the most talented students, and one of the founding rules of the school was that there was to be no tuition every student was to be a scholarship student.

Presenter6:16

Yeah.

Jorge Bolet6:17

So Amelia just took it upon herself to write to Curtis Institute of Music and ask for a catalogue and an entrance audition.

Jorge Bolet6:26

And that's how I happened to go to Philadelphia.

Jorge Bolet6:30

All the years that I studied at Curtis, of course, I was a regular

Jorge Bolet6:36

Visitor to the concert of the Philadelphia Orchestra under the golden days of Stockovsky.

Jorge Bolet6:44

And this particular recording is one that the Philadelphia Orchestra made of the Swan of Twinella of Sibelius.

Jorge Bolet6:53

One reason that I have picked this record is that at the very last minute

Jorge Bolet6:59

In the recording session.

Jorge Bolet7:01

the English horn player of the orchestra.

Jorge Bolet7:05

got a terrible nosebleed, and Tabutov, who of course was the great solo oboe of the orchestra, just took up the English horn and recorded it.

Jorge Bolet7:18

I have very special reason for playing this, because besides it being Stokovsky in the Philadelphia Orchestra, it is Marcel Tabuto, with whom I had the great, great privilege of studying for about four years.

Jorge Bolet7:33

I think undoubtedly he's the greatest musician I have ever known.

Presenter8:38

An excerpt from The Swan of Tournela by Sebelius, Stokovsky and the Philadelphia Orchestra, and we can hear Tabuto playing the English horn.

Presenter8:49

Now obviously you did very well at the Curtis Institute. There's one particular concert at which you played when about sixteen, I think. Fritz Reiner was conducting. Who was in the audience at that time?

Jorge Bolet9:01

Well, it was one of the yearly concerts that the Curtis Symphony performed, generally in Philadelphia.

Jorge Bolet9:09

And this year they happened to perform in New York in Carnegie Hall.

Jorge Bolet9:14

Fritz Reiner, of course, was the conducting professor at Curtis.

Jorge Bolet9:19

I played the first movement of the Tchaikovsky concerto, and it being a private concert, it was an invited audience, and naturally, you know, Joseph Hoffman invited all his colleagues that happened to be in the city at that time.

Jorge Bolet9:36

And his colleagues happened to be Rachmaninoff, uh Horowitz, uh, Heifetz, Misha Elman, Godovsky and uh Ephraim Zimbalis, Alma Gluk, who was uh married to him at that time. Did you know they were all there? Did it make you nervous? Oh yes, because uh Mr. Zimbalis gave a party at his house afterwards and all these people were there, except Rachmaninoff. Now at Curtis you won a number of awards. What was your professional? Debut I can say that my professional debut was in the month of may, nineteen thirty five, in Amsterdam, Holland.

Presenter10:13

You came over to Europe for a look round, didn't you? I mean, when you graduated.

Jorge Bolet10:17

When you graduated? You know, after seven years of being in a school with the discipline that entails and having a piano lesson every week and all that, I was I was kind of tired of that, so I decided I would come to Europe. I had a a stipend of the Ministry of Education in Cuba.

Jorge Bolet10:37

that allowed me to live in Europe.

Jorge Bolet10:41

It was while I was in Europe that my oldest brother gave me a wonderful uh offer of an introductory recital tour of uh Europe.

Jorge Bolet10:53

So Doctor de Coase in Amsterdam, the great impresario.

Jorge Bolet10:59

arranged a tour for me and I played in Amsterdam and Berlin, Vienna.

Jorge Bolet11:05

Paris and London.

Jorge Bolet11:07

You went back to Curtis to study

Presenter11:08

Conducting

Jorge Bolet11:09

After two years in Europe. Yes, I did. I studied conducting with no aspirations of becoming a conductor.

Presenter11:16

Who is your professor?

Jorge Bolet11:18

Fritz Reiner.

Jorge Bolet11:19

I really was rather curious about conducting. I wanted to find out what conducting was all about and what it entailed and what was required.

Jorge Bolet11:31

and of course has been a great help to me in playing with orchestras, because I understand perfectly what the conductor is doing or is trying to do.

Jorge Bolet11:40

Um

Jorge Bolet11:41

What I can do with an orchestra

Jorge Bolet11:44

or rather what I can't do with an orchestra that I can do when I'm playing alone.

Jorge Bolet11:50

It's come in handy, I'm sure. Let's have another record one.

Presenter11:52

Next.

Jorge Bolet11:54

Well, the next one is one of those hair-raising experiences that I recall very vividly.

Jorge Bolet12:02

Toscanini conducting the Philadelphia Orchestra.

Jorge Bolet12:05

I think it was one of the very few times that Doscanini conducted the Philadelphia Orchestra.

Jorge Bolet12:12

And fortunately it was recorded at that time. It was not released until many, many years later.

Jorge Bolet12:19

And I recall one of the Toscanini performances, he ended the programme with a performance of.

Jorge Bolet12:27

The Festa Romane of Raspighi.

Jorge Bolet12:31

I have the

Jorge Bolet12:33

The impression that I had never heard

Jorge Bolet12:37

Sonorities of such intensity and such

Jorge Bolet12:43

I hate to use the word volume.

Jorge Bolet12:46

Without ever

Jorge Bolet12:48

having any sensation of any blasting or you know, it was all beautiful, magnificent sound.

Jorge Bolet12:55

For that reason I love the recording because it brings back memories of uh

Jorge Bolet13:02

I guess I must have been, I don't know, seventeen, eighteen years of age when that happened.

Presenter14:04

Respighi's Festi Romani, Toscanini, and the Philadelphia Orchestra.

Presenter14:10

mister Bollet, what happened to you when uh World War Two broke out?

Jorge Bolet14:14

When World War Two broke out I was uh in Philadelphia. I was back at the Curtis. I was actually on the faculty in a kind of a minor capacity.

Jorge Bolet14:26

As a citizen of a co-belligerent nation, naturally, I was.

Jorge Bolet14:33

eligible for the draft in the United States. And I had naturally registered and I had already had my pre induction physical and I was expecting to be called almost any time.

Jorge Bolet14:47

My oldest brother, who was an army career man, he was a colonel in the Cuban army, happened to see President Batista, and Batista asked him, Oh, how is your brother George?

Jorge Bolet15:00

And my brother said, Oh, he's fine, he's uh just expecting to be drafted into the United States Army any day.

Jorge Bolet15:08

Well, you know, Batista just hit the ceiling. He immediately called an aide and said you get a cable to the colonel's brother and tell him that I order him return Cuba immediately. And that's exactly the cable that I got.

Presenter15:21

Yeah.

Jorge Bolet15:21

So through the Cuban consul in Philadelphia, who was a very dear friend of my father's, and the Cuban ambassador in Washington they went to see General Hershey, who was the head of selective service at the time

Jorge Bolet15:35

And they gave me permission to go to Cuba to enlist in the Cuban army. So that's how I happened to end up in the Cuban Army. They gave you a diplomatic post? Well, yes, Batista gave me a a direct commission. After a few months of training in Cuba, he sent me to Washington to the embassy, Cuban Embassy as assistant military attaché.

Jorge Bolet15:56

That didn't last very long, just about a year and a half, and then I was left a civilian again right in the middle of the war.

Presenter16:03

Yeah.

Jorge Bolet16:03

Okay.

Presenter16:03

because of the Cuban crisis.

Jorge Bolet16:05

But yes, Battista lost his reelection, and the man of the opposition, doctor Grausam Martin,

Jorge Bolet16:13

was his bitter, bitter enemy. Of course anything that Battista had had anything to do with was completely out.

Jorge Bolet16:20

So I was out of the army, out of the embassy. And you were back in the American Army. Well, then I I went back to my draft board in Philadelphia and I said, Well, this is exactly what has happened. I said, I'm right back where I was a year and a half ago.

Jorge Bolet16:34

So they said, Well, when do you want to be inducted, lieutenant?

Jorge Bolet16:37

and I was inducted into the US Army.

Presenter16:40

You served in Tokyo.

Jorge Bolet16:41

Yes, fortunately by the time I finished my training in the United States Army, the war was over. So I was sent to Tokyo.

Jorge Bolet16:50

Occupation

Presenter16:50

Please run.

Jorge Bolet16:52

Yeah.

Presenter16:52

where you conducted the first Japanese production of a very celebrated Japanese operetta.

Jorge Bolet16:58

Yeah.

Presenter16:59

Gilbert and Sullivan's The Mikado. Whose idea was it to put it on?

Jorge Bolet17:03

Well, I was working with the Special Service uh detachment in Tokyo. It was part of GHQ.

Jorge Bolet17:12

And we had a a wonderful man there who had been a producer at the Pasadena Playhouse in California before the war.

Jorge Bolet17:23

And he got the idea of putting on a show that we could take back to the United States to show the War Department in Washington that we could produce something better overseas than the shows they were sending us from the mainland.

Presenter17:38

England

Jorge Bolet17:40

And he thought it would be a brilliant idea to do the mica.

Presenter17:42

Cado.

Jorge Bolet17:43

How

Presenter17:43

Was it an all G I cast, or did you have Japanese in the cast?

Jorge Bolet17:47

No, no, the cast was all American. We had special uh well, we call them cats, civilian actress technicians. who were under our direction there.

Jorge Bolet17:58

They were especially chosen because they could act, they could sing, they could dance, they could direct.

Jorge Bolet18:06

And they took the female uh leads naturally.

Presenter18:08

Yeah.

Presenter18:09

Japanese

Jorge Bolet18:10

In j

Presenter18:10

Joy the show when they saw it.

Jorge Bolet18:12

Well, at that time, you know, there was a a total separation between allied personnel and the and the Japanese population. So they weren't invited.

Presenter18:19

Yes.

Jorge Bolet18:21

No, but we did invite a rather selected a small audience to the final dress rehearsal.

Jorge Bolet18:29

government people and press and so on.

Jorge Bolet18:32

They seemed to like it and they wrote about it very favorably. Since then the Japanese have uh produced it many, many times. Let's have another record. What next? Well, the next record I have chosen is what I consider really a magnificent work.

Jorge Bolet18:50

Played by undoubtedly one of the greatest instrumentalists of the twentieth century.

Jorge Bolet18:57

Jascha Heifitz.

Jorge Bolet18:59

And it is the Sir William Walton violin concerto, a work which I loved ever since the first time I heard Heifitz play it. And of course Heifitz was the one that played the World Premiere.

Presenter20:12

High fits and an excerpt from the Walton Violin Concerto. So, your Army service over, Mr. Boilette. Back to the United States.

Jorge Bolet20:20

United States? Yes. After I was discharged from the United States Army, of course, I returned to the United States and then started to pick up the pieces from my career, which had dwindled to nothing. There's one

Presenter20:32

One job you did not an important job, but a a job which is

Presenter20:37

Stuck to your name. You dubbed the soundtrack for a Hollywood movie about Liszt, Song Without End. Yes. You will never be able to escape that in any piece one reads about you that is mentioned. Uh

Jorge Bolet20:49

Uh

Presenter20:49

Yeah.

Jorge Bolet20:49

Belong

Presenter20:49

Radish

Jorge Bolet20:49

Babe. Dumb it Uh Uh

Presenter20:50

Yeah. Uh

Jorge Bolet20:50

Uh

Presenter20:50

Oh.

Jorge Bolet20:50

Yeah.

Presenter20:50

Cool. But it's

Jorge Bolet20:50

Because it was just a straight recording engagement.

Presenter20:55

Who played List? Dirt Burke. Did you work on the set with him or was it just dubbing after the film was?

Jorge Bolet21:00

No, I didn't. Uh Victor Aller in Hollywood was the one that taught him to synchronize all the movements. But you see, before they could shoot any of those uh sequences,

Jorge Bolet21:13

He spent four months practising with Victor Aller five six hours a day.

Presenter21:19

He's a very conscientious.

Jorge Bolet21:19

with my recordings going on. So when I finished recording, everything that was played on the film, every piano, worked.

Jorge Bolet21:29

They hadn't shot one foot of film.

Jorge Bolet21:32

Let's have another record. What have we got next? Well, we're back in Philadelphia, the great days of Leopold Storovsky.

Jorge Bolet21:41

I have always been a great Wagnerian.

Jorge Bolet21:45

And I think of all the Wagnerian music dramas.

Jorge Bolet21:49

Some of the most.

Jorge Bolet21:51

Inspired and beautiful music that Wagner wrote is in Trissan and Isolde.

Jorge Bolet21:58

And

Jorge Bolet21:59

I recall hearing Stokovsky play what he called a symphonic synthesis, Tristan and Izol.

Jorge Bolet22:08

And it was a kind of a a panorama, a musical panorama of Tristan.

Jorge Bolet22:13

It's just uh

Jorge Bolet22:15

I don't know, music that really does something to me.

Presenter23:23

An excerpt from Stokovsky's Symphonic Synthesis of Tristan and Isolde with the Philadelphia Orchestra.

Presenter23:31

You've told us that among the pianists you've heard and known, Joseph Hoffmann and Rachmaninoff were your great idols. Did you know Rachmaninoff?

Presenter23:43

Uh

Jorge Bolet23:43

I met Rachmainoff only on two occasions. The first one was the Carnegie performance with Reiner that we were talking about.

Jorge Bolet23:51

I played before the interval, and after the interval, Mr. Saperton, who was Gozovsky's son-in-law and my teacher at Curtis.

Jorge Bolet23:59

took me into the hall to sit with Godovsky in his box.

Jorge Bolet24:05

And as we came out after the concert was over.

Jorge Bolet24:11

Kodoski grabbed my arm and said, There is someone here I want you to meet.

Jorge Bolet24:17

And I recall this tall gentleman,

Jorge Bolet24:21

whom of course I recognized immediately as Rachmaninoff, putting on his overcoat with the big savo collar.

Jorge Bolet24:28

And naturally they he spoke in Russian. I don't know what Godowski told him, but

Jorge Bolet24:34

I recall just shaking Rahmayanov's hand, of course.

Jorge Bolet24:38

You know, I don't remember anything else. I was so

Jorge Bolet24:43

Odd.

Jorge Bolet24:44

And then the second time was when I was living in Paris few years later, Rachmaninoff played a recital at the Sal Playelle.

Jorge Bolet24:53

And I had the temerity of going backstage, reminding him that, you know, he had heard me in Carnegie Hall and oh, he was so very

Jorge Bolet25:03

you know, simple and ask me what I was doing and was I playing and so on. Those were the only two occasions that I met Rashmanov.

Presenter25:13

What have you got next on that little pile of records, which is dwindling so far?

Jorge Bolet25:17

Well, the next record I have chosen is to me one of the really.

Jorge Bolet25:22

amazing and great performances of any work.

Jorge Bolet25:28

by one of the real giants of the twentieth century, Beno Moisevich.

Jorge Bolet25:35

whom I knew rather well.

Jorge Bolet25:39

and I admired greatly, naturally. Uh this is a a recording of the Rachmanov transcription of the Mendelssohn Scherzo from Midsummer Night's Dream.

Presenter26:51

Benomoisevich, the Mendelssohn Scherzo from A Midsummer Night's Dream.

Presenter26:57

mister Bollette, how much of the year do you spend travelling?

Jorge Bolet27:00

Well, I would say a good ten months out of the year. And you're still teaching, of course? Yes, I am the head of the piano department at the Curtis Institute, and uh I have six students, which uh naturally I'm able to teach all in one day, so there are many times when I have to teach them three days in a row.

Jorge Bolet27:19

And then I might be away for three, four weeks. But I end up the school year

Jorge Bolet27:25

giving them each twenty lessons, which averages to one a week.

Jorge Bolet27:31

That is the length of the of the school year.

Presenter27:35

How do you plan your year? You have so many activities. Which part of the year do you say, Well, well, that's it, I'm going to take a few months off?

Jorge Bolet27:41

Well, I I never really take a few months off. I take a few weeks off.

Jorge Bolet27:47

I generally like to be at home, actually over the Christmas, uh New Year's holidays. Home is

Presenter27:54

New York, Philadelphia.

Jorge Bolet27:55

No, my home is about forty miles below San Francisco. On the West Coast. In the heart of Silicon Valley. More traveling. Yes.

Jorge Bolet28:05

But I never mind going all the way to San Francisco as long as I know I'm going to be home. How many miles do you do in a year? You haven't worked it out. No, that I haven't worked out.

Jorge Bolet28:15

But it must be many hundreds of thousands, I assure you, because I do a good deal of long distance travelling. I mean, every time from one coast to the other in the United States is thirty two hundred miles.

Jorge Bolet28:28

and I cross the Atlantic

Jorge Bolet28:30

Eight, nine, ten times a year.

Jorge Bolet28:33

And last May

Jorge Bolet28:35

had a tour in South America.

Jorge Bolet28:38

Next July I go to Australia.

Jorge Bolet28:40

You know these are all

Jorge Bolet28:42

Enormous distances.

Jorge Bolet28:46

Fact To mm.

Presenter28:46

Music, we've got number seven of your age. Yeah.

Jorge Bolet28:50

Well, I I feel that if I'm going to be in a desert island I have to have a little amusement. I must have something that uh makes me smile and makes me laugh.

Jorge Bolet29:02

So I have chosen a record of

Jorge Bolet29:06

what I consider one of the greatest musical comediennes, Anna Russell. What's she talking about? I especially like uh Anna Russell's analysis of Wagner's ring. There are some remarks in that which I think are really absolutely priceless.

Speaker 229:26

Sure enough, there's dirty work afoot because Hagen gives Siegfried a magic potion that makes him forget all about Brunhilde and fall in love with Gutrune Gibitz.

Speaker 229:45

Who, by the way, is the only woman that Siegfried has ever come across who hasn't been his aunt?

Presenter29:55

Anna Russell a few comments about the ring.

Presenter29:59

mister Barlett, are you a practical person? I know you've got to look after your hands, but you're stuck on this island, and you've got to look after yourself.

Presenter30:06

Could you rig up some kind of shelter? I imagine I could.

Jorge Bolet30:09

Yeah.

Presenter30:10

I don't know how.

Jorge Bolet30:11

Oh.

Presenter30:11

Yeah.

Jorge Bolet30:11

But I would find some way of at least uh being able to keep dry from rain. Now you've got to eat.

Presenter30:19

Ever done any fishing?

Jorge Bolet30:20

Not since I was a child.

Presenter30:23

Were you successful as a child? Yeah.

Jorge Bolet30:25

I can't recall ever. Catching anything really worthwhile. Yeah.

Presenter30:28

Would you try to get away? Do you know anything about navigation? Would you try to make a raft?

Jorge Bolet30:33

Mm.

Presenter30:35

That I couldn't in a million years. All right. We'll leave that subject and you've got one more record left. What's that?

Jorge Bolet30:42

Well, this uh last record I am sure is the last thing anyone knowing anything about me would expect me to choose.

Jorge Bolet30:51

But I think it's one of the most amazing pieces of recording and performance that I have ever heard.

Jorge Bolet30:59

This is a record of Les Paul.

Presenter31:02

The guitarist

Jorge Bolet31:02

The guitarist, yes.

Jorge Bolet31:04

Playing eight different guitars, he would play one guitar part and then superimpose the second and the third and the fourth and so on. All eight guitars.

Jorge Bolet31:18

It is the kind of record that I can hear repeatedly and I never, never get tired of it.

Presenter31:57

Les Paul and eight guitars, Brazil.

Presenter32:00

mister Bollette, if you could take only one of the eight records you've played us, which would it be?

Jorge Bolet32:05

I think I would probably choose the Hoffmann recording of the second concerto of Chopin.

Presenter32:10

One luxury to take with you to the island any one object you like, of no practical use that would give you pleasure.

Jorge Bolet32:17

Well, you know, photography has been my hobby ever since I was a student at Curtis.

Jorge Bolet32:22

And I think I would probably get

Jorge Bolet32:26

More enjoyment out of taking one of my cameras with me than anything else.

Presenter32:32

Right, and plenty of film. And one book. You already have the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Jorge Bolet32:39

Well the One book I would take would be the Cervantes Don Quixote. Don Quixote. Right. I think that the wisdom of Sancho Panza, when he starts rattling off one proverb after the other, the logic of his reasoning to me shows such superb wisdom, I think I would need something like that in a desert island. Right, you shall have it.

Jorge Bolet33:05

And

Presenter33:05

Thank you, George Bolette, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you. It's been a great pleasure. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 133:19

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio form.