Anthony Hopkins

Anthony Hopkins0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Anthony Hopkins0:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1985, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

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This week our castaway is the actor Anthony Hopkins. Tony, I know that music means a great deal in your life. You play the piano? Yes. Were you put to it or did you take to it? I took to it quite early. I started about the age of six. Did you ever consider taking it up professionally? Yes, I did for a while, uh for about ten years, I think. And then I discovered that I didn't have the technique or the

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talent really to play as a concert pianist.

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That's all I wanted to be was gone to be in a so I more or less gave up. Yes. Or gave me up. Top or nothing. Top or nothing. That's been it all my life, yeah. Do you play discs a lot? Yes, I I play music a lot when I'm uh working on plays. You know, I choose something that will help me to get in the mood when I'm reading. Well, you have just eight for what may be a long time. How did you set about choosing them? Were you?

Anthony Hopkins1:15

How do you

Presenter1:17

Choosing nostalgically? They're nostalgically, yes. I've chosen a few that um made an impression on me when I was a a child. What's the first one? It's from The Pearlfishers by Bize, sung by Nicola Gedda. Why do you choose that?

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I heard this oh ten, twenty years ago and it had such a haunting effect on me, I don't know why, it was just the quality of voice.

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And the quality of music that haunted me, and I play it very often.

Speaker 31:54

I could wait

Speaker 32:32

I don't give a fuck.

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An aria from the first act of Bizet's The Pearlfishers sung by Nikolai Gedder.

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Whereabouts in Wales do you come from, Tenny? Fort Halbert, South Wales. One of a big family? I the only child. What were you best at at school?

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Nothing really.

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Art, painting and drawing. Yes. That was about it. I was hopeless at school. Did you see any theatre? Not at all. First theatre I saw was Peter O'Toole in.

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Look back in Anga in uh Bristol, yeah, back in nineteen fifty seven.

Anthony Hopkins3:05

Yeah.

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Some pantomimes when I was a little good.

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And then you elected to go to the Cardiff College of Drama. Were you encouraged to do that? No, I saw an advertisement in the paper for a scholarship. I applied for it, tried it and got in by chance, by fluke. Mhm. And that was it. Did you get on well? Yes, for two years, but I was far too young. Were the standards high at the Cardiff College? Well, it's nineteen fifty five. It was a very young school at the time, and uh yes, they were, but I was far too young to really appreciate all that. Um did my national service after that. National service, what happened to you? Where did you go? Oh, I was stuck on the Salisbury Plain for two years. Royal Artillery. Two years. I was a clerk typing up letters in the regimental headquarters. Interesting letters. I mean, military secrets or just. Not military secrets at all. I mean, I I was barely competent at that job, but I survived in the chief clerk's office in the uh regimental headquarters there. Um I wouldn't have missed it actually. It was uh two years. I don't think it was wasted, but uh at the time I thought it was no

Anthony Hopkins3:43

Two in Western

Anthony Hopkins3:50

Not medical.

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Terrible bore. During those army days, had you been eating your heart out? As soon as I get out of this place, I'm going to act. No, because I had no idea what my potential was.

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And I thought, well, when I come out of the army, when I'm demobbed, I'll just have a go at it and see how it works out and I went into repertory companies, got two jobs, and not a human manager. And then I decided to go off to Rada, take it seriously and get some training. Had you had any opportunities in the army at all? Was there a concert party or anything of that sort? No, there was n uh no such thing in the regiment I was in and uh there was the local rep in Salisbury but I

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Very rarely went into sorts, but didn't have very much time off.

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Let's have your second record. What shall that be? This is Movanmi, a Welsh song sung by the Triochi Male Voice Choir. Why do you choose it? I don't know very much about Welsh choral singing, but this is one of my favourites.

Speaker 35:22

Be inconvenient.

Presenter5:58

Mafanwe sung by the Triorke Male Choir. So you're out of uniform, Tony, and into rep. Which rep?

Anthony Hopkins6:00

Mail

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First I went to Manchester Rep, the Library Theatre. Well that's quite a prestigious one, huh? Did you find it hard to get in? No, I tried an audition for David's case and I was given a job as an assistant stage manager and I stayed there for about three months. Uh he advised me to get a proper training. In fact he asked me to leave. David Smith saw small parts which I couldn't but he he was very nice. He said I think you ought to go off. He said you've got some potential he said I think you ought to go off and get a training in

Anthony Hopkins6:11

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins6:18

Not

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grounding in technique. And he said come back in about two years' time and see me. So you went off to Rata for two years. Yes. To the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. Yes. Did you enjoy it? Oh yes, I had a wonderful time.

Anthony Hopkins6:35

Yes, to the right occasion.

Presenter6:40

Afterwards you went I went off then to Leicester, Phoenix Theatre, in nineteen sixty three, and after that I went over to Liverpool to David Skase again. Yes. And then from there I went down to the National Theatre in sixty five under Lawrence Olivia. Really, this was a second start?

Anthony Hopkins6:51

And do honour and livio.

Presenter6:54

Yes, it was, yes, under David's case, and it was a marvellous time I had. I really enjoyed it.

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Your third record? Consolation in D by Franz Liszt, played by Horowitz. Why do you choose this in particular? I heard it when I was a little

Presenter7:08

Oh, must have been about eight years of age.

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There was a piano teacher in the same street, and uh she used to play at night. And I can always remember that almost a Chekhovian summer evening and hearing this consolidation coming down the street, and I'd been out playing with the other kids.

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It stayed with me for years and years, and whenever I hear it it takes me back.

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Lists Consolation number three, played by Horowitz.

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The National wasn't your first London appearance, weren't you at the Royal Court for a bit? Yes, the end of 1964, in Lindsay Anderson's production of Julius Caesar, I played a small part, Metella Simba. How did you get your opportunity at The National? Who saw you where? I auditioned for Lawrence Olivier at the end of 1965. Yes. He was then doing Othello, and my only audition piece, the only one I knew, was Othello. So I thought, well, I've got nothing to lose. He can't shoot me. He asked me what am I going to do? And as I told him, he said, You've got a nerve, haven't you? However, he seemed to like it, and he said, All right, come join us. So I stayed there for about on and off, seven years. They were great days. They were terrific then. They were marvellous when he was running the company. That was when it was at the Old Vic. They'd just come up from Chichester then. Yes. And they had people like Maggie Smith, Albert Finney, Colin Blakely, Frank Finley.

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It was a powerhouse of a place. Did Laurence Olivier encourage you? Did he show you tricks and and help you along? Well, I think we all picked up his tricks. You know, such personality and such a powerful actor like that, it was very difficult to avoid, I mean, working with him, to avoid picking up some of his stuff. And I don't think there's anything wrong in that, you know. But he did encourage me. I mean, he gave me my first major part in Three Sisters I played Andre with John Claride.

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That was in'sixty seven, and I understudied Sir Lawrence in Dance of Death, and I went on with him for four or five performances when he was ill.

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And then in the middle of all that, just as things were getting started there, O'Toole, Peter O'Toole, gave me a film test for Lyon in winter, so off I went to Movieland. Staying with those National Theatre days for a moment longer, you're one of the few actors who have played Audrey in As You Like It. Oh, yes.

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The all-male cast with Derek Jacoby as Touchstone, myself as Audrey, Bron Pickup as um Rosalind, Charles Kay as uh Celia.

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Who else was then? Robert Stevens as Jacques, wonderful Jacques. An interesting production. None of us knew why we were doing it, but however, the audiences seemed to like it, you know, and I had a lot of fun with it.

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Let's have your fourth record. It's uh John McCormack singing The Rose of Tralee. Why? When I was a child my grandfather had a scratchy old wind up gramophone, and this was one of the songs, and uh whenever I hear it it takes me back to those days when I was about six seven as my lover.

Speaker 311:05

He was lovely and

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Where are the Lord of God?

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Yet'twas not our beauty of own but one me.

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What was the truth?

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In a heart adorning.

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That made me love Mary Lorros.

Anthony Hopkins11:39

No.

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John McCormack, The Rose of Tralee.

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You left the National to do your first film, The Lion in Winter. That was a very good production, wasn't it? It was a good film. It was a wonderful film for me to make my film debut in with uh Catherine Hepburn and Peter O'Toole. I remember I was called along to Peter O'Toole's office. He'd seen me in something, I'm not sure what.

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And I met the great man, and uh I'd been a fan of his for some years.

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I never did tell him that he was the first actor I had ever seen on stage, playing Jimmy Porter in Bristol in Look Back in Anger some years before.

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He said uh he wanted to give me a foam test, and uh the next day I turned up in Chelsea Gardens.

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Peter O'Toole came to supervise the test, and played in the test with me.

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and made everything so relaxed that I got the job and I couldn't believe it. And then my problem was to get out of the contract at the National Theatre. Anyway, Sir Lawrence.

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very generously allowed me to break my contract and leave.

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And I started with Catherine Hepburn and Peter O'Toole.

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And it was quite a beginning, I must say. I was rather star struck by the two of them. I mean, they were marvellous. And it was a good part you had. It was a wonderful part, Richard the Lionheart.

Anthony Hopkins13:02

And who

Presenter13:05

And they were both very generous. And there were three other actors, Timothy Dalton, John Carson, Niger Terry, myself. So it was quite a good beginning, you know. Very, very good.

Anthony Hopkins13:12

They value it.

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And did that lead to Lloyd George and The Young Winston? Oh, no, that was much later. What happened? I came back, I finished Line and Winter, I did another film called Looking Glass War with Sir Ralph Richardson, and from then I did an adventure film When Eight Bells Toll, which was quite a popular film. Then I was asked to go back to the National Theatre to do a a nightmare production called The Architect and the Emperor of Assyria by Fernando Arabao with Jim Dale. I look back now and I can have a good laugh because it was really a bizarre through the looking glass experience. And then came a batch of plays at Coriolanus and Woman Killed With Kindness. You got several of the major Shakespeare poets under your belt, who did Coriolanus, The Thane of Cordor and Petruccio. Yes, that's right. They were the beginning of the best years of my life, professionally.

Presenter14:00

Uh it was just before I went to America. Yes, th they were the best years.

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Record number five.

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Skriabin's Etuden D Sharp minor, opus eight number twelve, played by Horowitz. This is in your own repertoire, is it? Yes, I played this some twenty years ago and uh

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It's been one of my favorites.

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I've started playing it again, but it's a terribly difficult piece, but I'm

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accomplishing something with it anyway. Not nothing on the scale of Halowitz, but.

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It's a hard things.

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Spriabin's Etude in D Sharp Minor played by Horowitz. You spent about a year of your life, Tony, on a long television project, uh a version of War and Peace. Yes. That was um for the BBC in this country and in Yugoslavia with my friend Alan Toby. I played Pierre and Alan played Andrei. An interesting, um, a marvellous piece to do. Playing the part of Pierre, I think began to influence changes in my life because Pierre was a a seeker of wisdom and truth and I think I'd unconsciously been trying to find some answers for myself because I wasn't really at that time that happy as an actor. I was very insecure.

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and scared as lots of young actors are.

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But I think in a way it led me to question my own life, you know, and then I later went off to America uh in seventy four. You have been rather a loner as as a young actor, hadn't you? Yes, I'd been very much on my own well ever since I was a child, but I'm still a little bit like that. I mean I as I'm getting older I'm making more friends now. I'm I'm opening up and saying yes to things a bit more than I used to. I used to be a bit of a hermit.

Presenter16:33

And I think, you know, it's a it's foolish because one needs the society of other people. I think it was more or less an affectation of just panic or fear. But that long spell on One Job, on War and Peace, gave you a chance to think things out and yes it did, it did. And the answers not that there are answers to anything, but uh some of those truths started to make sense about two or three years later. I went off to California and uh I suddenly thought, Yes, life really is uh a great kick and uh better get on and enjoy it because, you know, this isn't the rehearsal, this is it. And I think you know, it's it's the peculiar irony of one's youth. You know, one is so intent on the destination and you forget to look at the journey itself.

Anthony Hopkins16:47

Yes, it did.

Anthony Hopkins17:06

Dinger.

Presenter17:15

In fact, you've stayed in America for quite a few years. Yes, I was there for ten years, in fact. Was this a kind of considered project?

Presenter17:22

It was chance, really, and uh destiny or luck or whatever you want to call it. I'd always wanted to go to California. I'd always been a a movie fan. I was brought up as a child on the Warner Brothers movies of Humphrey Bogart and James Cagney. And that's you know, I simply wanted to make movies and television. I know a lot of English actors frown on that and say it's rather selling out, but uh that's what I did. I sold out, I suppose. A film which was something of a landmark in your career was The Elephant Man. Oh, yes. That's a sombre film to work on, I should say. Pretty somber, pretty somber experience altogether, working on that subject for twelve weeks or whatever it was. I was glad when it was all over, but I'm glad the film was successful. It seemed to do okay at the box office. They I'm sure the producers were very pleased with it.

Presenter18:05

Yes, I saw it once when I was in the Mac. I saw a rough cut of it. I've never seen it since, you know, the complete version of it. You don't follow your films around. You don't like to see every one and in the past. Oh, yes, I have a look at some pages. Oh, no, that's not true. I I do like to see them. I check them out and see if they're okay. I think, all right.

Speaker 318:13

Oh yes, I have a look at that.

Presenter18:18

That's good. That's all right. If it's not so good, I don't want to see it again.

Speaker 318:20

You know,

Presenter18:23

Yes, I've watched everything I've done, you know. Uh maybe I've missed one or two things, but I you know, I have a look, check them out, see if I'm doing all right.

Anthony Hopkins18:27

Yeah.

Presenter18:30

See if I had anything I've got to learn or unlearn.

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But I don't really go to rushes very much, you know, um, unless I need to to watch an accent or whatever I have to learn, but

Presenter18:40

No, I don't studiously follow my own films around and play them night and day. Your last big movie in California. Bounty. The remake of Bounty. Of course you had two very distinguished predecessors. Oh, yes, Charles Horton and Trevor Howard. Was that a bit daunting?

Anthony Hopkins18:46

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins18:48

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins18:52

That's Charles Horton.

Presenter18:55

Well, no, not really. Well, yeah, in one way it was, having to

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Take the mantle of Charles Lawton or to have a hard. But the script was written and slanted in a different way, so it did make my job easier. I mean, Bly is written as a more sympathetic part, uh, as a more humane character, which indeed he was. This film took an awful long time to set up, I believe. It was David Lean's project, originally. David Lean, wasn't it? David Lean started it in 1977, I think, and I went and had dinner with him in California. He wanted me to play Bligh. So he said at the time. I read in the paper that he wanted somebody else to do. But that's how I stayed on the film, so I don't know whether he changed his mind. But when it was resurrected five years later, Bernie Williams, who was the producer, said, Would you like to do it?

Anthony Hopkins19:14

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins19:18

It directly wasn't it.

Presenter19:38

I said, Do you still want me? He said, Well, yes. He said, Dino Dilarentis, the original producer of it, wanted to do it. I said, So I'm still a part of the deal. He said, Of course you are. Now you say the part o of Bly was changed. It it was carefully researched. This was a more genuine, historically true version.

Anthony Hopkins19:46

Thank you.

Presenter19:54

Yes, uh a more historically true version of it. Unfortunately, Robert Bolt wrote a long script which is about two films long I think. But unfortunately we couldn't do that. The backers wouldn't put up that money and I don't know what the problems were. So we had to have our script cut down. But I I think an audience will only stick about two and a half, three hours. And of that sort of film I think they'll only take about two and a half hours of it to get bored, especially in America. Anyway, I th I think it turned out quite well.

Anthony Hopkins20:19

Deal with

Presenter20:21

And Bly was not a complete villain. No, he wasn't. He wasn't a villain at all. He was a wonderful navigator.

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A harsh man, but certainly not an unjust man. He simply loathed having men lashed Cat of Ninetails but he would use the lash when it was necessary. No, he wasn't an unfair man. He was a hard man foul mouthed and hard.

Presenter20:43

But he had a vision of duty. He knew what he wanted to do and he expected other people around him. Unfortunately, I don't think he was a very good commander. His skill was navigation. Yes, he was. And I think he misjudged it because he should have taken a bigger ship. And it was a mistake to travel on the battery which was too small.

Anthony Hopkins20:52

You great sailor.

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Let's have record number six.

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This is a nineteen thirty one recording of the immortal Bing Crosby singing The Blue of the Night. Tony, you can't remember as far back as that. Well, my father used to sing it. My father looked a little like Bing Crosby. And he used to whistle this.

Presenter21:17

And uh I've been a Crosbie fan ever since I was a little kid and I used to be taken off to the cinema to see the Road films, you know, Bob Hope and Crosby and uh I've always had a thing about Crosby. I actually saw him in the Twenty One Club in New York. He was sitting there with his family shortly before he died.

Anthony Hopkins21:23

Crosby have always

Anthony Hopkins21:26

Yeah.

Presenter21:31

And uh

Presenter21:32

I just wanted to go over and say hello to him, but uh anyway, he was busy, he uh he was with his family and I didn't want to pester him. But he had such an extraordinary voice and such a personality. Anyway, this is it. We're the blue of the night.

Speaker 221:47

Of the night

Speaker 221:49

Meets the gold of the day

Speaker 221:54

Someone waits for me.

Speaker 222:01

And the gold of her hair

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Crown to the blue of her eyes.

Speaker 222:10

Like a halo and early

Presenter22:15

Well the blow of the night being Crosby. So now you're back with us in London, Tony. Yes. Appearing in a play by Schnitzler called The Lonely Road. Mm-hmm. Tell me about that. Oh, it's a a play written at the beginning of the century, about nineteen oh four, by Arthur Schnitzler, who's quite a close friend of Freud, or contemporary Freud. It's a play, well, the title of The Lonely Way as it was originally called The Lonely Road as it's called here.

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It's really a portrait of uh the price we all pay, because there's a price tag attached to everything we

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the decisions we make in our lives and uh choices we make, responsibility we take for the decisions we make. But there is a price to pay, and I play the part of Julian Fichtner, who is an artist.

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Who decides to live a life of an artist and uh

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Within a very complicated situation he takes off and he follows his destiny and then his talent begins to dry up and he comes home and realizes that he is alone.

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that he has nothing in his life because he was never prepared to commit himself to anyone, he was never prepared to sacrifice himself for anyone in love.

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And he has nothing left.

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Except

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A future

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Alone. An austere and rather solemn place. Austere and solemn place, yes. Now, you're back at the old Vic. It's changed enormously since your National Theatre days then. Yes, after Ed Mervisch took over. Honest Ed Mervisch. Yes, I think he's done a terrific job there. The auditorium is beautiful.

Anthony Hopkins23:42

Today's

Presenter23:51

It hasn't changed that much actually. I mean the auditorium has been painted I uh structurally, I mean I can't remember how much has been changed. It seems to be a bit bigger than it was when I was there. Yes, I think it is. I think they've taken down some of the front of the stage. It's two million pounds bigger. Two million pounds, yes. I noticed the bar looks beautiful and uh they've knocked one of the back walls of the stage out.

Anthony Hopkins23:59

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins24:03

Two million pounds, yes. I noticed the

Presenter24:10

What's the next step? What happens now?

Anthony Hopkins24:11

Uh

Presenter24:13

I go on to the National Theatre after that to do a play by David Hare. Oh, that's changed too, the National Theatre. The National Theatre, yes. In the Olivia Theatre. I haven't worked there since its, you know, establishment in the National Theatre building.

Anthony Hopkins24:16

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins24:17

Institute of the National.

Presenter24:24

And we've got to record number seven. Which is Masquerade: The Waltz Masquerade by Aaron Cachutoriano. Why? Well, I first heard this about 20 years ago, and I just like it very much.

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The waltz from Masquerade by Cacciachurian, played by the National Opera Orchestra of Monte Carlo. You're on this tropical island, Tony. Of course you've been to the South Seas. You must have been

Presenter25:45

To the South Seas for bounty, or was it all an illusion? Tahiti. Oh, well. It seems like paradise, but after two weeks in paradise when you're being bitten to death by mosquitoes and poisoned by stonefish, it's not so much paradise, but really it was terrific. I enjoyed it. Well, we're sending you back to those parts for an indeterminate period. Did you pick up enough local knowledge to put up a hut, do you think? Some kind of shelter? No, I can't even knock a nail in the wall. You wouldn't have any nails, no. No, I wouldn't have any nails. All I would want to take is a piano, but of course I can't take a piano there. Yes, you can. That's your luxury. Piano tuner. Not a tuner, no. No, I can take a piano. I'll tune it myself. Right. What about food? Any ideas? Can you fish?

Anthony Hopkins25:58

Right.

Anthony Hopkins26:07

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins26:10

No, I was having a good idea.

Anthony Hopkins26:15

Yes

Anthony Hopkins26:16

Piano tunic

Anthony Hopkins26:18

I can take a

Presenter26:24

An everlasting supply of uh English sausages.

Presenter26:27

I love it. I've had my luxury. You had to make your own cheese from turtle milk or something.

Anthony Hopkins26:28

And cheers.

Anthony Hopkins26:31

That doesn't

Anthony Hopkins26:33

I see.

Presenter26:35

How long do you think you could endure it?

Presenter26:38

Well, we uh endured Tahiti for nine weeks, which was terrific, really. It was quite pleasant. It was a hard job. But how long could I survive on a desert island? Well, knowing my um

Presenter26:50

My fortitude and my resilience I'll probably give myself about two weeks. Astronomy is a hobby of yours, does it? Does that mean you could navigate your way?

Presenter26:59

I think I could navigate. Yes, I'd be quite good at that, I think. Well, I I'd have to swat up a bit because I'm a bit

Presenter27:05

Misty on my star maps now, but I used to be quite good at that. There's a fair chance you'd get home on your own star navigation. Right.

Anthony Hopkins27:10

And your own steam.

Presenter27:13

Another record.

Presenter27:15

This is Mahen Ladvanadai or Land of My Fathers sung by the Trioke male voice choir.

Speaker 327:43

The reach of Lord.

Speaker 327:47

God's love has

Presenter28:27

Land of Our Fathers by the Shioke Male Choir. If you could take only one disc of the H you've chosen, which would it be?

Presenter28:35

I think I would take Mv Vanui, mhm, the Triochi Mayovo Esquire. And you've told us you're luxury that's going to be a piano.

Speaker 328:42

Yeah.

Presenter28:43

One book, you have the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, all ready for you on the island.

Presenter28:49

I take the Great Gatsby. The Great Gatsby. Yes.

Presenter28:53

I've read it a few times and I I find it a haunting book. Who's it by? F. Scott Fitzgerald. Right. The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald. And thank you, Anthony Hopkins, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you. Goodbye, everyone.

Anthony Hopkins29:15

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Anthony Hopkins29:18

For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four