Michael Ffolkes

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty four, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

Our castaway this week is an artist,

Presenter0:32

He specializes as a cartoonist. His name is Michael Fokes, two small f's, Fokes. And Michael, you're a very prolific artist. You get through a vast amount of work every week, every day. Do you play music while you work?

Presenter0:48

I play a lot of music.

Michael Ffolkes0:49

Yeah.

Presenter0:49

Yes, it's a marvellous companion.

Michael Ffolkes0:50

Actually. Otherwise one might go mad. Radio or discs or what? Both. Both. Radio three, I'm horrified to say, because that's not your programme. And a lot of discs.

Presenter1:01

Have you any musical skill yourself, do you have an instrument?

Michael Ffolkes1:02

None whatever. I have a very pleasant light tenor, which I think is very pleasant. Mm-hmm. Especially in um bedrooms. Uh very good in bedrooms.

Presenter1:11

Did you have any plan in choosing your disc? Are are you choosing nostalgically or great works? Or how did you set about it?

Michael Ffolkes1:19

Well, they seem to uh be uh sort of the same thing. It is a very nostalgic choice. Yeah.

Presenter1:26

Where do we start? Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes1:27

Where we start with a childhood sweetheart of mine.

Michael Ffolkes1:30

I think she was a year older than me, Judy Garland. And uh this was a record I used to play on in a very terrible old machine with my cousin, who was more like my brother. I never had a brother, but he was uh very close. And we used to play this record uh over and over again and it's called uh Dear Mr. Gable.

Speaker 21:51

You made me love you. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it.

Speaker 21:59

You made me love you and all the time you knew it. I guess you always knew it. You made me happy sometimes. You made me glad.

Speaker 22:16

But there were times, sir, you made me feel so sad.

Presenter2:24

Judy Garland, Dear Mr. Gable, or You Made Me Love You.

Michael Ffolkes2:29

Michael, are you a Londoner? Yes, I was born in St John's Wood. Now your mother was a professional music hall artist. Yes, she was a pierot, or purette, I think is the proper expression, for girl. And she appeared in concert parties where well, the two that she's given me, uh because I said to her that she appeared on Southend Pier and she was infuriated, but she says, in fact, that she appeared on Hastings Pier.

Presenter2:53

For a much higher class of

Michael Ffolkes2:54

Much higher class of peer, and in the winter gardens of Blackpool for three years, so she had a rather long career. And your father?

Presenter2:58

So she had

Michael Ffolkes3:01

My father was a lettering man, as they used to say. Advertising. Largely advertising, yes. And his script writing, which now is nonexistent, appeared in almost every newspaper for about twenty years.

Presenter3:14

You said you didn't have a brother. Had you sisters?

Michael Ffolkes3:17

Now I was the only talent.

Presenter3:19

What was your first artistic influence, Michael? Were you taken to galleries or child?

Michael Ffolkes3:24

No. No. My parents were very Philistine in spite of uh there being lettering men and sopranos. I uh didn't really have any kind of uh early education in art except through again through my cousin who introduced me to uh Van Gogh and others. I was rather a slow starter, but I was a very quick starter as an artist. I started drawing at six, and uh I just had to make it up as I went along.

Presenter3:51

You sold a cartoon very early, indeed, at a very young age. Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes3:55

Well, it was a a a a sort of fluke. There was a competition in an evening newspaper and you had to uh turn a little decorative squiggle of a line in fact it was called squiggles into a cartoon with a caption and um I think I was about ten years old and I sent one in and I received uh the handsome sum of ten and sixpence for it. That was my first success and only the first try.

Michael Ffolkes4:21

What's your second record? The second record is my most favorite performer, Fat Swallow.

Michael Ffolkes4:29

And the reason I'd chosen it is that it was a favourite of my father's and he introduced me to Fatswaller. And I actually was lucky enough to see Fatzwaller live, playing with his back turned to the audience in a white suit against a white piano at the Hoban Empire before the war. And the record is my very good friend, the Milkman.

Speaker 24:53

My very good friend, the Milkman said.

Speaker 24:57

That I've been losing.

Speaker 25:00

Too much link.

Speaker 25:02

He doesn't like

Speaker 25:04

But I was like here.

Speaker 25:06

He suggests that you should marry me.

Speaker 25:13

I'm trying to do it.

Speaker 25:15

Uh

Presenter5:15

Uh

Speaker 25:19

Then it would make you

Presenter5:21

Uh

Speaker 25:21

Bird litter

Speaker 25:23

If we both had

Speaker 25:25

The same with Rose.

Speaker 25:28

So chance that

Presenter5:31

Uh

Speaker 25:31

Should

Presenter5:31

Yeah. Uh

Speaker 25:31

Mm-hmm.

Presenter5:33

Vats Waller, my very good friend the Milkman.

Presenter5:36

Michael, you were a published cartoonist at the age of ten or thereabout. Did you think this was what you wanted to do? Never cut me.

Presenter5:44

You went off to boarding school. What were you good at at school?

Michael Ffolkes5:48

Only two things English and art the only two things I was ever good at at any school, and I went to a lot of schools.

Presenter5:54

Were you editing school magazines and that sort of thing?

Michael Ffolkes5:57

I created my own school magazine.

Presenter5:59

Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes5:59

Uh

Presenter5:59

Mm-hmm.

Michael Ffolkes5:59

I sold them for uh a penny each, and they cost me a large part of my sight, I think, writing these things out. There was no duplicating machine. Did you want to move on to art school? Yes. I went to Saint Martin's School of Art in London when I was f

Presenter6:13

Fifteen. Were you interested at all in lettering? Did you want to carry on from your father or work with your father?

Michael Ffolkes6:18

No, because he was so very, very good at it, there seemed to be no point in trying. But you did work in an advertising agency for a while. Yes, I was partly a messenger boy and partly a very unemployed artist. They did give me little things to do from time to time. Now, you were published by punch at a video.

Presenter6:37

Uh Li A

Michael Ffolkes6:37

Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes6:38

Yes, I'm probably one of the very uh youngest intruders into that world.

Michael Ffolkes6:45

I think I was seventeen, and it appeared as a half page in nineteen forty three and again I must be money mad or something, because I remember what they paid for it. It was eight guineas, and uh it seemed a large sum of money.

Presenter6:58

Seventeen, that's a lot of money. Do you remember what the subject was? What was the matter?

Michael Ffolkes7:01

Yes, it was something I never do now. It was a strip cartoon and it showed two sides of trench warfare, Germans on one side and the English on the other side. And there's going to be an attack, and they both attack. But of course, the English being true Brits, they attack over the top, and the the Germans, of course, attack underneath in a stealthy sort of way. And in the fourth picture, it goes to four pictures, the first one showing them firing at each other from left to right, and the last picture shows them firing at each other from right to left. And that was the joke. It didn't have a caption.

Presenter7:35

Oh, well worth eight minutes. What's your third record?

Michael Ffolkes7:37

What was that?

Michael Ffolkes7:39

The next record is a very personal favourite of mine because it combines two artists who mean a great deal. Bing Crosby, whose relaxed style of life has really made an enormous influence on my own feeling about life and my own behaviour, I think, and Louis Armstrong, no need to say anything about him. And it's from High Society, a marvellous film, and it's called Now You Has Jam.

Presenter8:09

Uh

Michael Ffolkes8:09

Uh from the equator Up to the pole Everybody winging, everybody singing That rock, rock, rock, rock, rock and roller from the east to the west From the coast to the coast Jazz is king, cause jazz is the thing of folks Dig

Presenter8:40

Now that's Jeff.

Presenter8:43

Mr. Crosby, Mr. Armstrong and friends now you has jazz from High Society.

Presenter8:49

You mentioned selling your first cartoon to Punch, at the age of seventeen, nineteen forty three. There was a certain amount of rumbling going on in the background in nineteen forty three. You went into the Royal Navy.

Michael Ffolkes9:02

Yes, uh at the age of eighteen. I wouldn't like to have said that I volunteered, but it's not so. I was uh inducted and it was a nice time to be inducted because you could choose which of the forces you could go into and I chose the navy because um I never wanted to bayonet anybody or be bayoneted and it seemed that you're always going to be a fair distance from the enemy. Where did you serve? I went round the world. I was in Australia for uh ten months and I came back. In fact, I circumnavigated the world, to use a nice long expression.

Presenter9:31

What was your job in Australia?

Michael Ffolkes9:33

I was a telegraphist. In fact, I was um something which I've always despised, an ordinary telegraphist.

Presenter9:37

And also

Michael Ffolkes9:39

An ordinary telegraphist until almost the end of my time when they took away the ordinary. It always rankled that ordinary. Did you do some drawings for Australian magazine?

Presenter9:48

I never

Michael Ffolkes9:48

I never thought in terms of commercial work in those days. I did thousands of drawings, all very beautiful drawings, which are now totally destroyed.

Presenter9:57

So when you stopped being a telegraphist, that was the end of your Navy career. Yes.

Michael Ffolkes10:03

In forty six, like everybody else.

Presenter10:04

And back to London.

Michael Ffolkes10:05

Yeah.

Presenter10:06

Well, this is before the beginning of what one might call your your adult career, so let's have your fourth record.

Michael Ffolkes10:12

I would very much like, as we're on a desert island, to have something which gives me an an optimistic feeling that I wouldn't starve to death, and I would like Schubert's Trout Quintette.

Presenter10:23

And who is to play it?

Michael Ffolkes10:24

Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes10:25

I'd very much like to be played by the Amadeus string quartet, not only because they play it better than most people, but I freakishly spent a few months in the same boarding school as Norbert Brynan, the leader, and he always stuck in my m my memory, uh not because I understood very good violin playing, but I suspected it was very good violin playing, but because they let him off every other subject and all he did was play the violin, so he must have been pretty good even then.

Presenter10:53

You were pretty envious at that reel.

Michael Ffolkes10:54

I was uh extremely envious, and I still am.

Michael Ffolkes11:43

Uh

Presenter11:55

Part of the fourth movement of Schubert's piano quintet in A, The Trout, the Amadeir's Quartet with Hepsi Barmanuin at the piano.

Presenter12:04

So the war was over, you were in civilian clothes. What next?

Michael Ffolkes12:08

Very terrible civilian clothes, too. The stuff they handed out in those days is famous. I uh was lucky enough to get a place in Chelsea School of Art for four years, and I studied painting there. Again, cartooning wasn't very close to my thoughts, although I did do it as a sort of sideline, as a way of paying for a few bottles of plank and that sort of thing. I got a diploma, which I lost.

Presenter12:30

I got it.

Presenter12:34

But That's very careless. What was the first regular commission you got, a a weekly job which would enable you to relax a bit?

Michael Ffolkes12:44

It was a monthly job, and it was for a defunct magazine called Lilliput. And it was, of all things, illustrating a crossword puzzle. And it was called Lillipuzzle. It had a little picture in each corner of the thing, and you had to do the numbers as well. And I happened to be looking to an old ledger, and I saw the princely sum they paid me for that, which brings up the ugly subject of money again. And that was, I think it started at four guineas and ended at eight. So I was actually living on a regular income of 96 guineas a year.

Presenter13:19

Let's

Michael Ffolkes13:19

It was my mathematics instruction.

Presenter13:19

Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes13:22

Uh

Presenter13:22

Well, things improved. You discovered the perks of working for foreign papers, I mean foreign travel. You you did cartoons for Playboy.

Michael Ffolkes13:32

That came a good deal later, yes. I had a friend called uh Arnold Roth. I have a friend called Arnold Roth, who's uh contributed a punch. And uh I was so sort of um

Michael Ffolkes13:44

blind to the the possibilities of everything that I didn't even know that there was such a magazine as Playboy and it had been running for about seven years. And he said, Why don't you send something to Playboy and uh I'll send a covering letter to Hefner, who's a friend of mine and I said, Okay, and I got out some stuff and I sent it off to Chicago, where it was in those days, and still is part of it.

Michael Ffolkes14:07

And he wrote in this covering letter, I want to introduce you to the second best cartoonist in the world. Well, I would imagine that's what he had in mind. And I did have a success with Hefner, and uh, after a longish period and going to visit him and staying with the Bunnies and all that stuff, I became a regular bunnies.

Presenter14:12

Yeah.

Speaker 114:13

Whoever

Presenter14:26

Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes14:28

Staying the bunnies wasn't that uh hot, really, because they were always so exhausted from being bunnies that they just crashed down and and disappeared. All they could think about was sleep and a doughnut sleep on their own.

Presenter14:39

That is. Did all the bunnies live in mister Heffler's house?

Michael Ffolkes14:42

About thirty of them did, in a dormitory, can you imagine.

Presenter14:44

And a door.

Presenter14:47

I never visited the dorm. They were taken off to work in a shadowbag? I think they had a legged. Oh, dear, it's not as glamorous as I thought it was going to be. Let's have record number five.

Michael Ffolkes14:57

Record number five is very glamorous, a very glamorous man anyway. Frank Sinatra, a record I could not do without, and which will depress me night after night when I play it on the on the island, but it's so beautiful.

Michael Ffolkes15:11

And it's one for my baby.

Presenter15:13

We're drinking my friend

Presenter15:17

To the end.

Presenter15:20

Of a brief episode.

Presenter15:27

Make it one.

Presenter15:29

For my baby

Presenter15:33

And one more

Presenter15:35

For the road.

Presenter15:40

Frank Sinatra singing a beautiful old song by Harold Arlen and Johnny Mercer, One for My Baby and One More For The Road.

Presenter15:49

You were working on two levels, weren't you, Michael? I mean you were giving one man shows in in West End galleries and working as a cartoonist.

Michael Ffolkes15:57

Yes. But the one-man shows were few and far between and basically over the last uh many years I am really I am a cartoonist. I started off as an illustrator, cartoonist, but now I very rarely illustrate except in in forms of cartoons. It's sort of taken over. You had a regular film job for a while.

Michael Ffolkes16:19

I still have a regular film job. There was a little break in between, but I have illustrated the film column in Punch for a number of years. I started with Richard Mallett and worked with Barry Tooke, and now I'm with Dillis Powell, and we still uh do it together.

Presenter16:33

This must be very satisfactory because you have to see all the films, or all the good ones.

Michael Ffolkes16:37

Well, if someone had told me when I was a boy that I would actually get paid for going to the movies, I wouldn't have believed such good luck was possible.

Presenter16:46

You have worked to me.

Michael Ffolkes16:46

Uh

Presenter16:47

Film ministry you've done. and credit titles.

Michael Ffolkes16:48

Yes, I did a series of credit titles for The Bolting Brothers when they hit their lucky streak, things like um Private's Progress.

Michael Ffolkes16:57

And I've always been uh vaguely involved in cinema one way or the other.

Presenter17:01

Your name is Folks, two small f's, I hope I've been pronouncing it right, but it isn't your real name, is it?

Michael Ffolkes17:07

No. It would be asking too much of Dame Fortune to have a name like that as a cartoonist.

Michael Ffolkes17:13

I got it from Burke's peerage one day when I was looking for uh a pseudonym. I was always very keen on pseudonyms, even as a small child, and uh there were very few double F's and I thought it would be a rather good thing to be. And for years I thought that in fact I was unique, that there were no other folkses spelt in my way. There were people with U's in and big capital F's and things like that. But eventually I got a a letter from a widow of an artist, strangely enough, who was asking for a drawing of mine and signed herself Helen Fox, and I realized that in fact it wasn't an entire invention.

Presenter17:47

To tell us that there's no copyright in a name, is there?

Michael Ffolkes17:49

No, there isn't. But no one else, of course, uses double F as a monogram, and it is unique.

Presenter17:54

Your studio is in Shawsbury Avenue. Mm, centre of the universe. Don't you find that rather distracting on people sort of wandering in up the stairs at closing time and etc., etc.?

Michael Ffolkes18:05

You have to uh play um the perhaps not too difficult role to adopt of being a rotter and saying, I'm not talking to anybody this week or this year or what have you. Otherwise there might be quite a lot of people calling us, that's right. But if you're going to get any work done, you just can't uh have too much

Presenter18:21

No. It must be very handy or within a few hundred yards of all the offices of all the publishing firms that are likely to buy your drawing.

Michael Ffolkes18:30

Well, it's very close to Soho, which is very nice, where I have one or two favourite restaurants. It's immediately opposite a large store which sells everything you can conceivably want. And uh it's within twenty minutes of the Daily Telegraph and Punch which are my chief angels. So it's it's a very good place to be. And also I can see a tree from my window, which is unusual for uh an office in London.

Speaker 218:47

Yeah.

Presenter18:47

Mm-hmm.

Michael Ffolkes18:53

Yeah.

Presenter18:53

Right.

Michael Ffolkes18:53

The tree grows in soho.

Presenter18:54

A tree grows

Presenter18:57

Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes18:57

Really?

Presenter18:57

Record number six.

Michael Ffolkes18:58

Yeah.

Michael Ffolkes18:59

This again is one of my clever choices where I can have two for the price of one, in that it's Fred Astaire, one of my old time idols, and he's singing a song of Gershwin's.

Michael Ffolkes19:12

And he's actually accompanied by Gershwin on the piano, and Gershwin also speaks to him.

Michael Ffolkes19:20

So it could hardly be more ideal, and it's called Half of It Deary Blues. I've got the you don't over half of it deary blues.

Speaker 219:34

The trouble is

Michael Ffolkes19:35

To have so many from whom to choose.

Speaker 219:35

Come in.

Speaker 119:42

Yeah.

Speaker 219:42

With your permission?

Speaker 219:44

It's my ambition just to go through life saying meet the wife.

Speaker 219:50

I've got that you don't know the half of it, Deary Blue.

Presenter19:55

Fred aster, with George Gershwin at the piano, the half of it Deary Blues from Lady Be Good and that takes us back to the nineteen twenties.

Presenter20:04

You've always been a freelance, haven't you, Michael?

Michael Ffolkes20:06

Not exclusively, nor I've been under contract to the Daily Telegraph, have been for twenty-five years.

Presenter20:12

But only for so many hours a week, as it were.

Michael Ffolkes20:14

Yes, I illustrate uh the Peter Simple way of world column, and um it doesn't take up uh all my life.

Presenter20:21

Do you have a system for getting ideas? Do you keep great files of press cuttings and newspaper photographs and that sort of thing?

Michael Ffolkes20:28

I have a very large visual file because I have a very poor visual memory, but I don't get ideas from looking at the photographs. That that's when I have to see what uh Bach was doing and uh w whatever year, that sort of thing. But um I have no particular method for thinking of ideas. Ideas are unlike drawing, which is uh a craft and a professional skill, ideas are purely inspirational and there's no way of saying that you can think of one one day or another. I've been fortunate. They have been coming through outer space fairly constantly for the last forty years.

Presenter21:01

Have you drawn castaway jokes? Nearly everybody has, have you?

Michael Ffolkes21:04

Yes, I have drawn castaway jokes, and in fact I'm not.

Michael Ffolkes21:08

Remembering one in particular, which was the last one I did, for Playboy magazine, a slightly naughty one. It shows a vicar or a priest, bedraggled, reduced by a terrible storm that landed him on there, with a similarly unclad beauty, a a curvacious lady, and uh coming towards them on their little island is a large four-poster bed coming through the billows. And the religious is saying to the girl, The Lord moves in mysterious ways. I always like that one.

Presenter21:40

I always liked that one. You're fascinated by mythological and classical subjects, which must be singularly hard to draw.

Michael Ffolkes21:50

It's only that uh drawing, as I once said in a little book on the subject, drawing turn-ups and uh handbags all the time is so incredibly boring. So it's nice to draw uh Pegasus and some lovely voluptuary hanging on a cloud. You know, that's that's the reason more than anything. It's not that I'm classically uh minded or educated. But you are interested in the voluptuous, it seems. Very much so.

Michael Ffolkes22:13

Yeah.

Presenter22:13

You're the second generation with brush and pen.

Presenter22:16

Any of your children proposing to take up art?

Michael Ffolkes22:19

I have a ten year old daughter who has a very natural gift, but it's uh subsiding as it does with um children. They have to make a this very difficult bridge between being naturally child artists to the more competent kind and I don't think she's going to make it. I think she'd be much better off as an actress or something. She's very actressish. My sons were well one was quite good early on, but neither of them followed her. I actually did want to found a dynasty. I wanted to be uh a Bruegel and have uh sons who followed my own profession, but uh it didn't work.

Presenter22:53

What are your relaxations? What do you do when you're not at your drawing board?

Michael Ffolkes22:58

Well, I have no hobbies because uh drawing's a full-time occupation. I like we've been doing, we've been talking about music, listening to music. I would say that that was probably my second favorite occupation, and of course the cinema, which is partly professional, but partly a pleasure. You used to be a crack billiard player. I used to be a an indifferent snooker player. There's a vast difference. Of course. I was uh very fond of snooker before Pot Black was a gleam in its producer's eye, you know. I really uh liked the game and I spent years of my life uh when I should have been drawing playing snooker. Yes, if I do go to that mythological place up there, and if they do have a a snooker table, I I'd be pretty happy.

Presenter23:39

If you're not tempted to play snooker, do you try to work regular hours? No.

Michael Ffolkes23:42

No. I just work when I have to, and it is all the time, it seems.

Michael Ffolkes23:46

Yeah.

Presenter23:46

Yeah.

Presenter23:48

We got to record number seven.

Michael Ffolkes23:50

I'm surprised that I've been able to delay him so long, because he really is a very great favourite of mine, and that's Jack Teagarden. And he's playing something which isn't one of the more obvious things that one could have chosen, but it sums up, I'm sure, what I would feel on a number of occasions if I last long enough on this island to be with uh someone rather sweet, and it's called If I Could Be With You One Hour Tonight. Oh, he sings that one as well, doesn't he? Yes, he sings it, and he has a marvellous solo.

Presenter24:22

If I could be with you

Speaker 224:24

Uh

Presenter24:25

I'd love you long if I could be with you.

Presenter24:31

I love you strong, and I'm telling you for truth.

Speaker 224:36

You begin it.

Presenter24:36

We'd be anything but blue.

Speaker 224:38

If I could be with you.

Speaker 224:43

Just one hour be If I could be

Presenter24:46

See what you

Presenter24:49

Jack Teagarden, if I could be with you one hour tonight. Now we've got you on this desert island, Michael. How well could you look after yourself? All this um naval experience must have been rather useful, especially in the tropics.

Michael Ffolkes25:02

I wouldn't look look after myself at all, well. I doubt if I'd last long enough to play all the records, quite frankly. I'm totally hopeless with my hands. Done any fishing? No, I don't fish. No, I haven't got a chance, let's face it. Cooking. No way. Try to escape.

Michael Ffolkes25:18

Definitely. Navigation. Wave my arms about. Uh

Presenter25:24

I'm worried about you. Let's have another record. Your last record. Number eight.

Michael Ffolkes25:26

The last one, yes.

Michael Ffolkes25:28

A touch of the sublime after some of the ridiculous. Arta Schnabel playing Mozart's twenty first piano concerto. Why'd you choose this? It's just about the most beautiful thing I've ever heard.

Presenter26:36

Part of the slow movement of Mozart's piano concerto number twenty one, Kirkel four six seven, Arto Schnabel with the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent.

Presenter26:47

If you could take only one disc, Michael, out of the eight you played us, which would it be?

Michael Ffolkes26:53

I'm sorely tempted to take the Matza, but I would actually take the Fats Walla because Fats always makes me feel happy and I'd need a lot of feeling happy if I was alone on a desert island.

Presenter27:04

and you're allowed one luxury with you, one object of no practical use whatever.

Michael Ffolkes27:10

Well, it wouldn't have much of a practical use. Uh it is a practical object, I suppose, but in this instance not. And it would be an artist lay figure. It's a wooden figure with beautifully articulated hands, and it's used uh has been used uh to the centuries by artists to pose for certain difficult positions and to have uh costume applied to them. But I thought it would be rather nice because if nobody turned up to save me from this desert island it could make a rude gesture.

Presenter27:38

And one book, you already have the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare on the island.

Michael Ffolkes27:43

Yes. I think it would be the book that I most filched from professionally uh and that is Alice in Wonderland. In fact, uh the none such press have both Alice in Wonderland and uh Alice in Looking Glass in the same book. And uh I find it a a most marvellous book. The tenure and illustrations of course and uh that would uh be very pleasant.

Presenter28:03

Right. And thank you, Michael Folks, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Michael Ffolkes28:07

Thank you, Mr. Plumner.

Presenter28:08

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 128:17

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Michael Ffolkes28:48

Uh