'Honest' Ed Mirvish

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 20:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty four, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:29

Our castaway this week is the Canadian businessman and theatre owner, Edwin Mervish.

Presenter0:35

HONEST ED

Presenter0:37

Ed, you spent your life collecting crowds of people into the same place and getting them to spend their money. We're now condemning you to isolation on a desert island. How well could you adapt to loneliness? I don't think I could adapt too well to loneliness. But if I have no alternative, I guess that's where I'll have to be.

Presenter0:57

You have just eight discs to keep you company. Is music important in your life?

Presenter1:02

Well, I'm in the theater and we

Presenter1:05

do have quite a bit of music. But uh I I really regard myself as a storekeeper, but even there we're constantly playing music.

Presenter1:15

And for bargains we play a certain kind of music. If it's slow and dreary they won't pick up those bargains. So you need a certain tempo to tempt people to buy. Have you any musical skill? Do you sing or play the piano or anything? No. My wife sings, but I really do not.

Speaker 11:28

No, I don't.

Presenter1:33

Did you find it hard to choose these eight records?

Presenter1:36

No, they came very easy to me. I like them and uh I enjoy them. What's the first one? The first record is Mona Lisa by Nat King Cole. And uh I think to be on a desert island

Presenter1:51

The soothing voice of Nat King Cole, I I think I'd really enjoy it. It just fits in with palm trees and gentle breezes. I think it would be just great.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)2:01

Mona Lisa, Mona Lisa, men have named you.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)2:09

You're so like the lady with the mystic smile

Ed Mirvish (Honest)2:17

Is it only cause you're lonely?

Ed Mirvish (Honest)2:21

They have blamed you.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)2:24

For that monolith of strangeness in your smile

Presenter2:31

Natkin Cole, Mona Lisa.

Presenter2:34

And how far back do your New World roots go?

Presenter2:38

Well, I was born in Virginia in Colonial Beach, but we came up to Canada, my father and brought the family up when I was nine years old. So really I'm a Canadian citizen. I've lived there practically all my life. And where did your parents come from? My father came from Russia and my mother came from Galizia in Austria. Did they marry in Russia or? No, they both came over as teenagers, very young, and they landed in Virginia, where some of our relatives had been in Baltimore. They met in United States and married in the United States. And I was born in Virginia in nineteen fourteen.

Presenter3:19

Was your father trained for any particular job? What had he done before he emigrated to the States? My father, when he lived as a young person in Russia, they wanted him to go to the yeshiva and be trained as a rabbi, but I don't think it was really to his liking. And when he first landed in the United States, Virginia was wet, so he was a bartender in

Presenter3:40

One of my uncle's saloons.

Presenter3:42

And then he joined the Masons and he traveled all over the United States selling encyclopedias of Freemasonry. Successfully?

Presenter3:51

He was quite successful at that time as a salesman.

Presenter3:55

And that is what brought him to Canada to work for Virtue and Company in Toronto to sell encyclopedias. But it did not work there. It was during the Depression days. Mhm. And he could not make a living at it. Did your parents speak English when they arrived in the United States? Not when they arrived, but they both spoke fluent English as I grew up. They spoke both Yiddish and English. So he was not a success uh as a book salesman.

Speaker 14:16

Yeah.

Presenter4:23

Was your childhood deprived? I mean, was it really tough?

Presenter4:28

Well, I tell uh our son David, you know, I says I started working when I was nine years old. Doing what? Working in the grocery store, delivering orders, doing things. So when he looks at me and says, What were you before that, a bum? You know So after that I don't tell him anything any more. But I did start at a very early age because my dad died when I was fifteen. My mother was left a widow with three children and I had to leave school. So I was really a high school dropout. And you began running the store. What kind of store was it, David? It was a small grocery store.

Speaker 14:58

What kind of store was it?

Presenter5:01

That when he died, it was in a bankrupt condition because they were the depression years. And we would give credit and the people, not because they

Presenter5:10

didn't want to pay, they couldn't pay, and it was really a a terrible arrangement.

Presenter5:15

So finally, you know, it just disappeared, the store, and I went to work for a chain grocery store for two years.

Speaker 15:21

Yeah.

Speaker 25:21

That

Speaker 15:22

Uh

Presenter5:23

But I didn't like that too much,'cause I thought I knew more than the boss.

Presenter5:27

But looking back now, I don't think I did. Let's break off at this point for your second record. What's that to be? The second record that I chose was Are Viderce Roma. And uh the reason I chose this, it must be twenty or twenty five years ago, my wife and I we were taking a Caribbean cruise and we were on an Italian boat. Every night they would play Are Viderce Roma and in the dining room where the band was in the dance floor they'd roll the roof back and just under the stars there

Presenter6:04

and you know we would rumba and it was just very memorable because every night without fail they would play Arriver Derce Roma. And who would you like to play it and sing it on this occasion? Well, I have Perry Como singing it and I think he does a beautiful job.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)6:24

Hurry the day's shoes.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)6:33

It's time.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)6:42

Save the wedding bells for my returning Keep my lover's arms outstretched

Presenter6:51

Aurifa del Gieroma, sung by Pericomo. So you were working in this chain grocery store, Ed?

Presenter6:59

And you obviously wanted a place of your own. Was it possible to start one?

Presenter7:04

Yes. Well, at that time I had just been married. Yes. And uh we rented a little store for fifty five dollars a month.

Presenter7:13

in our present location where we are now. And I still kept the job and my wife stood in the store.

Presenter7:20

She looked after the store and any time I was not working on the job I would work in the store. And it was a ladies' sportswear. Well, you were in the rag trade by now. I was started in the rag, yeah.

Presenter7:32

And what happened, uh there were many young girls from out of town working in factories in Toronto.

Presenter7:40

And what we did, I said, Your credit is good. It was called the sport bar, your credit is good at the sport bar.

Presenter7:47

No down payment required.

Presenter7:49

and they would come in, they'd buy a dress or sports clothes or a or a ladies' suit.

Presenter7:54

and they didn't have to put any money down. What I did, I'd phone a discount company.

Presenter7:59

and sell the contract to them. As long as they okayed it, I'd give the girl the dress, and she had to come in every week and pay a dollar or two dollars a week. Every time she came to make a payment I'd sell her more dresses.

Presenter8:13

providing her credit was okay. And we got thousands of these credit customers together, and then what happened? The man owning the whole block on Long Bloor Street, he died and left the property to the University of Toronto.

Presenter8:28

So, before the funeral even, I ran down to the University of Toronto and I said.

Presenter8:34

He left you this property in the will. Can I buy it?

Presenter8:37

And I bought the whole front. It was only $25,000 and I had no money. But I said, If you want all cash, I'll get it for you. And they said, Well, no, we have to invest the money anyway. We'll take five thousand and we'll give you a mortgage for twenty. And that's when it started. I bought one hundred and twenty-five feet of frontage, but no depth. It was only fourteen feet deep. Well, you didn't believe in depth. You didn't want store rooms. You didn't store anything. It was all on show to be picked over, wasn't it? You know, my business pretty good. I just don't want you to open up next door to me and cut prices now. But that's true. I never wanted stock rooms.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)9:08

Crazy snow.

Presenter9:13

You also had some very effective ideas on advertising. Your poster advertising was was not very subtle, but it was very effective. As I say, I've had no formal training, but I always felt that uh all advertising really is, is to focus attention on what you have. Once you have the people, then unless you can service them or treat them right, you don't get the return business. And the advertising I felt that all advertising is either bragging or saying how wonderful everything is and how great it is, and all advertising says the same thing. So the approach I took, I would keep knocking myself.

Presenter9:52

You know, I'd say Honest Ed's for the birds, cheap, cheap, cheap. His floors are crooked, but his bargains are straight, and keep knocking. And by knocking myself, it would focus attention, and it just kept building. And that was and is the name of your store, Honest Ed. Honest Ed. And to put honest in front of your name takes a lot of you have to have a lot of guts to put honest in front of your name. But I thought also I did that to jar people, because right away they get suspicious when they put honest in front of your name. You've got to live up to it. Then you have to watch.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)10:26

Yeah.

Presenter10:28

Right, record number three.

Presenter10:30

Well record number three I chose my way

Presenter10:35

by Frank Sinatra. And I and I think the reason I chose that was because

Presenter10:40

I think it's a case of ego.

Presenter10:43

Power.

Presenter10:45

How you want to see yourself, whether you are that way or not.

Presenter10:50

And uh I think it's just a great record.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)10:53

Thing

Ed Mirvish (Honest)10:55

I did all blood

Ed Mirvish (Honest)10:59

And may I say

Ed Mirvish (Honest)11:02

Not in a shy way.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)11:05

Oh no.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)11:08

Oh no, not me.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)11:11

I did it.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)11:13

Mm

Presenter11:16

Frank Sinatra

Presenter11:17

My way.

Presenter11:19

Now you started your store, Honest Ed. Now you gave no customer service, you had no counter jumpers, people picked up what they wanted and paid for it on the way out, a as in a modern supermarket. Right. Well, what it was based on, you know, uh uh growing up as a child in the grocery store and giving credit and I would deliver something at two o'clock in the morning to somebody if they wanted and they wouldn't pay.

Presenter11:43

So I went the entire other direction because there's no miracles in business. Everyone can do what everyone else does. But my reasoning was if I eliminate all the services, I could save percentage points and pass those savings on to the public. So what it is, we do not have any service, we have no free parking, we have no exchanges, no refund, we have no credit, we have no delivery, and we don't open our store until twelve noon every day. Now you began really in a hole in the wall. It's what, now a five-story building?

Presenter12:18

Yes, it's a four story building, but what has happened, we have over the years, and it's must be forty, over forty years, we would keep buying buildings down the street, so now it almost takes in a block. And in addition, adjoining our store, we developed an artist colony. It's called Mervish Village, and there are two hundred artists have studios there and small shops.

Presenter12:43

So the whole area around the store is a development that's grown over the years very gradual.

Presenter12:50

Before we start talking about your other enterprises, your restaurants and theatres, let's have record number four.

Presenter12:56

Well, record number four, Roy, is taken from My Fair Lady. It's played our theater over the last twenty years a few times.

Presenter13:06

And I think it's amazing because

Presenter13:08

It's a musical where every song is really beautiful and that's so rare.

Presenter13:15

The one I picked, but any number of them are beautiful, is The Street Where You Live.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)13:21

Often walked down this street before, But the pavement always stayed beneath my feet before.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)13:32

All at once I'm eye several stories high, Knowing I'm on the street where you live.

Presenter13:43

On the Street Where You Live from the screen version of My Fair Lady sung by Jeremy Brett.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)13:49

Now the Royal Alexandra

Presenter13:51

Theatre, Toronto. You were in the store business and doing very, very nicely, and suddenly you decided to become a theatre owner. How did this work out? I think again the opportunity presented itself.

Presenter14:04

Uh the Royal Alexandra Theatre, which was built in nineteen oh seven, was a very beautiful theater, one of the nicest on the North American continent.

Presenter14:13

And they were looking for a buyer and no one wanted to buy it. And if no one bought it, there was a good possibility it would be demolished and used as a parking lot.

Presenter14:23

When I started to inquire into it, I bought it not because I was a theatre goer, I had little no knowledge of theatre.

Speaker 114:29

But

Presenter14:30

But I really thought it was a bargain. And you can't resist a bargain. No, I couldn't resist a bargain. And uh, as I say, if I would have known anything about theatre, I wouldn't have touched it. I had no competition.

Presenter14:42

But, uh, when we purchased the theater, we were committed to keep it for a minimum of five years.

Presenter14:51

It was very run down. Because they were not making money, they were not putting the money back into keeping it up. We paid $215,000 Canadian dollars, and it took $500,000 to restore it, and that was twenty years ago. You got stars in companies from New York and London?

Presenter15:12

Did you sometimes produce your own shows, or or did you always buy them?

Presenter15:16

No, we have produced a few shows. In fact, the first year I couldn't get any product. And that first year of the theater, I produced thirteen musicals every two weeks back to back. And you know, that was ridiculous for someone who didn't know anything about theater. But we would bring in Elaine Stritch and Annie Get Your Gun, Jack Carter, and Guys and Dolls. And what we would do, we'd bring a star in from the United States and use Canadian casts. And from that, the first lesson I learned was that because we were on a limited budget, you could not do stock productions in the Royal Alexandria Theater.

Presenter15:52

Because they are glaringly bad on that stage. You have to have first-class productions.

Presenter15:58

Because it is such a beautiful theatre.

Presenter16:01

Let's have another record.

Presenter16:03

Well, the next record is from Hare, and that was a very important show at the Royal Alexandra Theatre because it was almost a turning point. It played for fifty-three weeks and that is a long run for Toronto, and it played to full houses, and uh it was a big help to us. And the song that we're picking from that is Aquarius.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)16:26

The Moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius The Age of Aquarius

Presenter16:54

Aquarius by the original Broadway company of Hare.

Presenter16:59

So you were in the store business very successfully. You were in the theatre business. Now the restaurant business. How did that start up?

Presenter17:07

Well, actually I didn't want to be in the restaurant business either, because restaurant is a very service business. Our store is completely self serve. It's the simplest form of merchandising.

Presenter17:19

But the theater twenty years ago was located in a very desolate area. There was nothing across the street but railway tracks. That has all changed to day. But at that time it was very desolate.

Presenter17:32

And I bought a building next door, a six story building, thinking that if I could put a restaurant in there, each would complement the other. The theater would help the restaurant, the restaurant would help the theater.

Presenter17:44

And this is what actually happened. I opened up

Presenter17:47

the simplest restaurant I could, one item, roast beef. And the reason we picked that was because we thought if people wanted to go to the theater we can serve a lot of people quickly, and it had about a hundred and fifty or two hundred seats.

Presenter18:03

And of course people in the restaurant business said, Ed, you can't eat roast beef one item every night and the Pope he says you can't eat it on Fridays. Well after I opened the restaurant the Pope allowed them to eat it on Friday so that was a help you know but actually the restaurants kept growing and growing until today as I say we have 2500 seats but there's a roast beef and steak restaurant

Ed Mirvish (Honest)18:28

And still.

Presenter18:29

What is the original stake?

Ed Mirvish (Honest)18:29

Or the original stage.

Presenter18:31

Then we have Ed's Italian restaurant, we have Ed's Seafood,

Presenter18:37

And we have Old Ed's. Old Ed's. Yes. Old Ed's w is a restaurant we opened about eight or ten years ago, and the idea behind it was all the waiters were supposed to be sixty five years of age. Nice idea. The idea I thought was great. It didn't work.

Speaker 118:50

Uh

Presenter18:54

And the reason it didn't work was because these pensioners would lose their pension in Canada if they took a job. But the basic idea was wonderful because it'd be great therapy for people over sixty five. They could work when they want, meet interesting people and supplement their income.

Presenter19:13

But as I say, unfortunately that idea doesn't work. They say everything I touch works, but everything I touch doesn't work. That was one of them.

Presenter19:22

But when it doesn't work, I don't say anything. When it works, I tell the whole world. That's the only difference. Now, you mentioned Mervish Village, with its boutiques and galleries and studios for artists and so on. I'm sure your wife Anne, who was an actress and dancer, must have encouraged you in that enterprise. Well, she also is a sculptress and painter, and she was the first one to have a studio on that street. She now has a beautiful studio on the street, and uh no question about it, she would have influenced me, and uh I'm sure she has influenced our son, who is an art dealer, and now he's an art collector. And uh he wouldn't get that from me. For me, he gets bargains.

Speaker 120:01

You're money.

Presenter20:03

You're interested in dancing, aren't you? You like ball and dance. I'm not interested. What happened?

Speaker 120:06

I'm Uh

Presenter20:09

When our son was going to be Barmitsva at the age of thirteen I never danced, and my wife is a good dancer.

Presenter20:16

So I'd have to sit around watching her dance with other fellows. So when the Barmitzva was coming up, I went and started to take dancing lessons. Now, thirty years later, I'm still taking the lessons. And people say to me, Gee, Ed, you can't dance yet?

Speaker 120:24

Now third

Presenter20:30

And I say if I'd play in the violin you wouldn't say that.

Presenter20:34

But but I'm not a dancer, you know. For my wife I'm a dancer, my mother I would be a dancer, but with dancers I'm no dancer.

Speaker 120:37

Right.

Speaker 120:41

And

Presenter20:43

Your next record. Our next record is from West Side Story, and it's a very beautiful song, Maria, and I think this song will speak for itself. It's just beautiful.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)20:58

Maria, I've just met a girl named Maria And suddenly that name will never be the same to me Maria I've just kissed a girl named Maria And suddenly I've found how wonderful a sound can be

Presenter21:23

Richard Beimer singing Maria from West Side Story.

Presenter21:27

Now you'd run the store, Ed, you'd run the theatre, you'd run the village.

Presenter21:33

Whose idea was it that you should buy another theatre three thousand miles away? Did you know the old Vic?

Presenter21:40

I had never seen the old Vic, but I knew a lot about the old Vic because many of the important actors who worked at the Old Vic and were important to the Old Vic, Sir Ralph Richardson and Sir John Gilgood and Peter O'Toole, and they would tell me stories of the old Vic and uh I began to know about Emma Kahn's and Lillian Bayliss.

Presenter22:02

I was interested in this particular theatre. On june the eighth, about two years ago, a lawyer from Toronto came to me with a small clipping, and he said

Presenter22:13

Ed, he said, I don't think this of any interest to you, but I think I should draw it to your attention. The old Vic in London, England, will be sold to the highest bidder.

Presenter22:23

This is the eighth of June and the bids have to be in by the eleventh, which is only three days away.

Presenter22:29

Well, that afternoon, a few hours later, I phoned him and I said, Bert, I think I'm interested in this. I'd like to put a bid in. But if we put it in the mail, it will not get there by the eleventh. I would like you to take someone from your office, fly them to London, and put the bid in so that they get there by the eleventh.

Presenter22:48

The Board of Governors and the Trustees of the Charity that controlled the Old Vic had to let known who was the new owner by the twenty fifth of that month of June. And on the twenty third of June I received a notice that I was the new owner of the old Vic.

Presenter23:07

So I for twenty years I've been complaining to my wife what a rotten business theater is. Then twenty years later I go back, I bought the old Vic. One of the most famous theatres in the world. It was in a pretty run down condition.

Speaker 123:14

There's a

Presenter23:21

you really had to make major structural alterations.

Presenter23:24

Yes. In the stage area we've enlarged the back area about three times. We took out walls, changed the counterweight systems, so we can put on uh fair sized musicals now.

Presenter23:36

and in the auditorium which belonged to the National Theatre of Great Britain between nineteen sixty and nineteen seventy six, I believe.

Presenter23:44

It was under the influence of Tyrone Guthrie and Sir Laurence Olivier. For Shakespeare the stage was thrust open far into the orchestra. The boxes were all taken out. It was just nothing but boards there, and the proscenium was changed just stark, and everything was dark green.

Presenter24:04

I wanted to put it back to the 1871 period, the Victorian period, which is what we did. So virtually every part of that building had to be changed. And you opened it last October. You're running a a kind of subscription idea, which is fairly new to London, I think. Well, I guess it's very new and uh i it's very questionable whether it can work in London.

Presenter24:29

We do that in Toronto and we have fifty thousand subscribers, so our theater is always eighty five percent full all year round.

Presenter24:37

I'm trying to do that for London.

Presenter24:40

And uh I only need twenty-five, thirty thousand subscribers and uh I feel the market might be here.

Presenter24:48

Each show comes in for a minimum of six weeks. But if it's a smash hit, it still must move out of the old Vic. We can only play it for six weeks. As a business way to run the theater, it would be the way the West End runs it. You look for a good show, you run it a year and a half, two years, and hopefully you make a profit, and then look for another show.

Presenter25:12

This is a long term approach, but if this works, the theater will be very safe because you have the insurance of steady people who support that theater. Another record, please. The next record is another show that was very important to us, a chorus line.

Presenter25:32

The chorus line that played the Royal Alexandra Theatre originated in Toronto and that same company went to London, England and played here for six months, which is all Canadian show can play here, and then a British took over. And the song that I've picked from it is What I Did for Love. Very beautiful song.

Speaker 125:54

We did what we had to do.

Presenter26:14

What I Did For Love from chorus line sung by Priscilla Dope.

Presenter26:19

Could you look after yourself on a desert island? Are you a handy sort of person, Ed? No, I'm not very skilled in anything. Done any fishing?

Presenter26:27

I hate fishing. My wife loves fishing. I hate it. I could tell you ten fishing stories and why I hate each one.

Speaker 126:30

Uh

Presenter26:34

Right, you get some sort of vegetables or

Presenter26:37

Fruit. Can you cook? Well, my wife is a good cook. I enjoy eating at home.

Presenter26:43

But, if I'm out, I like junk food.

Presenter26:46

I like pizza.

Presenter26:48

Peasant under glass like hot dog

Presenter26:51

You know. So I'm not very good. I'm afraid you've got to eat natural food for the time of your stay on the island. Would you try to escape?

Presenter27:00

So that you can get back to pizza and hot talk. If I could. I'm not that good a swimmer, but I

Speaker 127:04

Thank you.

Presenter27:09

Never have.

Presenter27:11

Of course I never had occasion. We need rafts in Toronto. Write your eighth and last record. When my wife was a teenager,

Presenter27:22

She used to sing for Jewish societies and benevolent societies, and she would sing this song, and when she sang it all the people around would be crying and have tears in her eyes. It was just great.

Presenter27:36

It's my Yiddish mamma.

Presenter27:38

And this record is done by Connie Francis.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)27:41

I yield the shaman.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)27:47

Let's keep it pressure in the well

Ed Mirvish (Honest)27:54

I hear the shimmer.

Ed Mirvish (Honest)28:00

Hai wait, vita venzie faires.

Presenter28:05

Connie Francis, my Yiddisha Mama.

Presenter28:08

If you could take just one disk out of the age you've chosen, Ed, which would it be?

Presenter28:12

Well, if I was permanently located on a desert island

Presenter28:16

I think that Mona Lisa I find is very soothing, very relaxing. And one luxury to take with you, one object of no practical use whatever. Well, because I'm so ashamed

Presenter28:29

You know, when everybody goes out and eats gourmet food and I eat the junk food, I think I would like a barbecue.

Presenter28:37

And I could perhaps pick the vegetables and try and come up with something that would be more exotic. All right, it's a little bit useful, but we'll let you have your barbecue. We'll also let you have a pair of dancing shoes, and then you can uh learn some sand dancing. Well, I don't know if I need that, because if I haven't become a hoofer by now, I think I should give up after all these years. And you may have one book. You have a statutory allowance of the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, one other book.

Presenter29:08

The other book I would choose would be The Complete Set of Webster's English Dictionary, because uh now that I'm spending more and more time in England, I think it's time that I learned how to speak English.

Presenter29:24

And uh you know, if I even learn a few words every day, I think I might eventually get there. Right, you shall have it. And thank you, Ed Mervish, thank you Desert Island Discs. And thank you so much. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 229:45

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio forward