Rosemary Sutcliff

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1983, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:29

This week our castaway is the writer of children's books, Rosemary Sutcliffe, and I'm talking to her in her house in a Sussex village.

Presenter0:39

Is Sussex your native country?

Rosemary Sutcliff0:42

No. To my shame I have to admit that I was born in Surrey, but I count myself Yes.

Presenter0:45

But I can't myself.

Rosemary Sutcliff0:47

But, um, I count myself as a West Country woman, as a Devonshire woman.

Presenter0:51

Is music important in your life?

Rosemary Sutcliff0:53

Yes, I think so. But I'm not musical. I don't know a thing about how it works. I'm one of those dreadful people who know what they like.

Presenter0:59

Did you have any plan in choosing this eight pieces of music that may have to last a long, long time?

Rosemary Sutcliff1:05

Not really. I

Rosemary Sutcliff1:08

I chiefly just chose the eight well, eight among, I suppose about twenty, of the ones that I love best of all.

Presenter1:14

What's the first one?

Rosemary Sutcliff1:15

of a new whale symphony.

Presenter1:17

Porsche.

Rosemary Sutcliff1:17

The water.

Presenter1:18

Yeah, why did you choose that?

Rosemary Sutcliff1:20

Chiefly because I just because I love it. It's very exciting, I find.

Rosemary Sutcliff1:24

Um I I have a great fondness for um

Rosemary Sutcliff1:28

Not American films as such, any kind of American film, but I love the good old-fashioned cowboy films.

Rosemary Sutcliff1:36

And I think I always get the same kind of feeling from this as I do from a really good cowboy film.

Speaker 42:41

Uh

Presenter2:44

Part of the third movement of Worceschak's ninth symphony from the New World, the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by East Van Kirtisch.

Presenter2:53

So you were born in Saudi. Your father was a sailor.

Rosemary Sutcliff2:56

Yes, he happened to be at the Admiralty at the time.

Presenter2:58

You're an only child?

Rosemary Sutcliff2:59

Yes.

Presenter3:01

You have a a gift for recalling events in your very, very early childhood, haven't you?

Rosemary Sutcliff3:08

Yes, I think I have.

Presenter3:09

How far back can you go?

Rosemary Sutcliff3:10

Okay.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:11

Oh, my very first memory. I was only eighteen months old. Really? And we know that it was so because I was never in Poor Park, which is the place where it happened.

Presenter3:13

Uh

Rosemary Sutcliff3:19

again until I was seven.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:21

The thing was that I I was taken for a walk, I was taken along a path.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:25

And

Rosemary Sutcliff3:26

I came out from the narrowness of this path into an open space.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:30

where there were things in cages.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:33

notably a squirrel, restlessly sort of wandering round and round his cage, obviously with a headache.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:39

and all the injustices and sorrows of the of the world broke over my head for the first time at that sight.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:46

And I break forth into

Rosemary Sutcliff3:48

Belle was a fiery, and had to be removed from the park.

Presenter3:51

And you could recall that

Rosemary Sutcliff3:53

I could recall that.

Rosemary Sutcliff3:54

Quite clearly. And as we all forgot it until after I was grown up, something triggered the memory, and I said to my mother, Did this actually happen? and she sort of said, Let me think, and then realized it had. So it can't have been one of those things which we just are told about.

Presenter4:08

Being in the Royal Navy, your father had to move about, so you and your mother moved with him some of the time.

Rosemary Sutcliff4:14

Yes.

Presenter4:15

to various military establishments in the south of England.

Rosemary Sutcliff4:20

Yes, and water.

Presenter4:21

Mm-hmm.

Rosemary Sutcliff4:21

And I was really small.

Presenter4:23

When you were still very young, you had the misfortune to acquire a form of juvenile arthritis.

Rosemary Sutcliff4:30

Yeah.

Presenter4:30

Which has plagued you all your life.

Presenter4:33

The idea of Malta was that the hot climate would help you.

Rosemary Sutcliff4:36

That was the idea, yes.

Presenter4:38

Did it?

Rosemary Sutcliff4:39

No, I don't think so, but I'm glad I went, all the same.

Presenter4:41

What do you remember about it?

Rosemary Sutcliff4:43

Oh, little sort of cameos. I remember branches of an orange tree hanging over a wall.

Rosemary Sutcliff4:49

And

Rosemary Sutcliff4:50

I remember the people coming and going in the streets.

Rosemary Sutcliff4:54

Four kind of people, in particular priests, who I remember as wearing lace petticoats. You know, one's memory is a little kind of peculiar at that age. I was only about three.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:04

Goats, usually with a paper bag hanging out of their mouths, because they sort of ate anything and everything.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:11

used to be milked on the doorstep.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:13

Uh which is a great way of spreading water fever, I believe.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:17

Sailors, of course, everywhere.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:19

And in those days still a great many women wearing the foldetta, which I don't suppose you would ever see in Malta nowadays, which was a very becoming headdress.

Presenter5:27

One of the results of your sad illness was having to move around some of the time in a strange vehicle which is now, fortunately, virtually unknown a spinal carriage. Can you describe that horrible thing?

Rosemary Sutcliff5:39

Yeah.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:41

But it was rather like a wicker coffin, and it was very uncomfortable.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:45

And you were lay flat out in this thing, and of course all you could see were the branches of the trees or the roofs of the houses going by overhead.

Rosemary Sutcliff5:52

And it was extremely boring. With any luck you were perhaps allowed to sit up on the way home from a walk.

Presenter5:58

Let's have your second record.

Rosemary Sutcliff6:01

Well, my second record uh dates really, I suppose, from those days, and because of having a father who was a sailor, for those in peril on the sea.

Rosemary Sutcliff6:08

It's part of life to do with the Navy. And we had it at his funeral actually too.

Presenter7:12

Eternal Father Strong to Save, a Cornish recording by the Holman Climax Mailboys Choir and the Maybe Ladies' Choir.

Presenter7:21

Disabled as you were, Rosemary, were you able to go to school?

Rosemary Sutcliff7:25

I didn't go for a very long time because of traipsing around so much. My mother used to educate me herself, chiefly by just reading to me the books that she liked. But I did go to school.

Presenter7:32

But I do

Rosemary Sutcliff7:34

And I've always been very thankful that I went to an ordinary school. I never got incarcerated with other disabled children.

Presenter7:41

And I suppose you read a lot.

Rosemary Sutcliff7:43

Yes, well I chiefly I had read Toomey.

Rosemary Sutcliff7:45

which is a thing I love to this day.

Rosemary Sutcliff7:48

And um

Rosemary Sutcliff7:49

I didn't learn learn to read for myself until I was very old. Me and Kipling, we were both nine before we could read.

Presenter7:54

Uh

Speaker 47:54

Uh

Presenter7:54

Rim.

Rosemary Sutcliff7:55

But this was I think because my mother read aloud to me so much, and this I loved very, very much.

Presenter8:00

Did you listen to the radio?

Rosemary Sutcliff8:01

Yes, children's are.

Presenter8:03

Now in your book about your childhood

Presenter8:07

blue remembered hills,

Presenter8:08

You write about your loneliness. Curiously, your parents didn't seem to trouble to to find other children for you to talk to, to have around in the home.

Rosemary Sutcliff8:18

No, they didn't, and and this is odd, because they were very understanding. Nobody could have had nicer parents.

Rosemary Sutcliff8:25

But um

Rosemary Sutcliff8:27

They were very sufficient unto themselves. Neither of them seemed to want a social life themselves.

Rosemary Sutcliff8:31

And I think it honestly never occurred to them that

Rosemary Sutcliff8:34

A child growing up and going through its teens.

Presenter8:36

Hmm.

Rosemary Sutcliff8:36

required other young people.

Presenter8:39

During that time, were you having treatment? Were you having to go into hospital from time to time? Yes.

Rosemary Sutcliff8:43

Yes. That used to be the one place where I did meet young children, uh children of my own age.

Rosemary Sutcliff8:49

and of course at school.

Presenter8:50

Yes.

Rosemary Sutcliff8:50

But I I was never allowed to bring friends home.

Presenter8:53

Is it a disease for which nowadays treatment has improved enormously?

Rosemary Sutcliff8:58

Oh yes, it has improved enormously, but there's still

Rosemary Sutcliff9:01

Isn't, you know, an an unlimited amount that can be done about it. Some children are very much more lucky than others.

Presenter9:07

You were able to move around, all right. I mean, you could travel, I mean sometimes you were in your chair, but you could

Rosemary Sutcliff9:10

Oh yeah.

Rosemary Sutcliff9:11

Yeah.

Presenter9:13

be taken in trains and that sort of thing.

Rosemary Sutcliff9:14

Oh yes, I've always been sort of carted around the world.

Presenter9:17

Mm-hmm.

Rosemary Sutcliff9:17

and gone to things and done things.

Presenter9:20

Your next record.

Rosemary Sutcliff9:22

I would like every media doing phone.

Rosemary Sutcliff9:25

I don't quite know why. Um it just does things, it trickles up and down my spine and um

Rosemary Sutcliff9:30

I suppose it's very central.

Rosemary Sutcliff9:32

But I do love it.

Presenter10:36

Debussy's Prelude, L'Apré Midie d'Unfon, the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beacham.

Presenter10:43

When I think you were about fourteen, you went to art school.

Rosemary Sutcliff10:47

Yes. I left school, which one could do at fourteen in those days.

Rosemary Sutcliff10:51

And put in three years at art school.

Presenter10:53

Which form of art attracted you most?

Rosemary Sutcliff10:55

But I did the general art course.

Rosemary Sutcliff10:57

painting in oils and watercolours and, you know, making charcoal drawings of the um Apollo Belvedere from the north, south, east and west.

Presenter11:05

Of course, yes. And you set up as a miniaturist.

Presenter11:09

Did you find commissions coming in?

Rosemary Sutcliff11:11

Yes, I did. In the war I had quite a lot of work to do, quite often rather sadly, from photographs of young soldiers who weren't coming back.

Presenter11:18

Where are you living at this point?

Rosemary Sutcliff11:20

In North Devon, my father gone back into the navy.

Presenter11:22

Did you work at home?

Rosemary Sutcliff11:24

Yes, and also at the local art school I was allowed to use a room.

Presenter11:27

Did you enjoy it?

Rosemary Sutcliff11:29

I enjoyed it, but I have found miniature painting cramping.

Presenter11:32

You did very well at it. You exhibited at the Royal Academy.

Rosemary Sutcliff11:35

I was a good craftsman, but I always felt this feeling of having my elbows tucked too close to my sides when I was doing it.

Presenter11:42

Why did you give it up? I mean, to do what?

Rosemary Sutcliff11:44

But I gave it up to write. I think for this very reason that I began to feel that I'd got to do something to break out.

Rosemary Sutcliff11:51

And

Rosemary Sutcliff11:52

I could write as big as ever I wanted to. I could use an enormous canvas if I wanted to.

Presenter11:57

Had you written as as a as a child, have you written stories?

Rosemary Sutcliff11:59

No. No. I wasn't at all sort of writing-minded at school.

Presenter12:03

Where did it start? What did you want to write?

Rosemary Sutcliff12:06

I don't even know, I just wanted to write. And I sort of scribbled happily most of the time through the war.

Presenter12:11

What did you scribble about?

Rosemary Sutcliff12:13

Oh, it was quite dreadful. It was

Rosemary Sutcliff12:16

Rather a mixture of Giaffrifarno and

Rosemary Sutcliff12:20

Ooh.

Rosemary Sutcliff12:21

Georgette Hare?

Presenter12:23

Well that too was good.

Rosemary Sutcliff12:23

Possibly. They're both good writers, but I took the worst elements from both of them.

Presenter12:25

Trans

Presenter12:27

It was history that fascinated me that

Rosemary Sutcliff12:28

It was history that fascinated me.

Presenter12:30

So what happened? Did you send your stories away to anybody?

Rosemary Sutcliff12:33

No, I never even thought about getting them published. I wrote purely for my own pleasure.

Rosemary Sutcliff12:37

And then, about the end of the war,

Rosemary Sutcliff12:40

I did uh a retelling of some some British legends, sent them to an old friend, sort of to see whether he thought they were any good.

Rosemary Sutcliff12:49

Because you can never show things that matter very deeply to your own family.

Presenter12:51

Yes, that's strangely true.

Rosemary Sutcliff12:53

So, um, I sent them off to this aero train, Colonel Crookenden.

Rosemary Sutcliff12:58

And

Rosemary Sutcliff12:59

He, unknown to me, had a friend who had married into the Oxford University Press.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:05

So he sort of passed these scripts along to her and sort of said, Show these to your husband.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:10

And the very first thing I knew about it was, I had a letter from the Oxford University Press saying they didn't want them, which was a surprise to me, and I didn't know they'd got them.

Speaker 413:17

And

Presenter13:18

Yeah.

Speaker 413:18

Uh

Rosemary Sutcliff13:18

Saying would I try doing a Robin Hood for them instead? So I did a Robin Hood and th that was how I became launched as a writer.

Presenter13:21

So I did a roll.

Presenter13:25

So there you were, a published author.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:27

Yes.

Presenter13:27

It was about that time that romance came into your life.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:32

Yes.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:33

My one lonely boyfriend who I had two separate love affairs with, but the same tree at both times.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:38

He was a sergeant pilot, bomber pilot, just out of the war with them.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:45

Oh, they used to call it shell shock. I think now they called it combat fatigue. Anyhow, he was the sort of person who had permanently dilated pupils and shot out of his chair if anybody slammed a door.

Speaker 413:49

Yeah.

Speaker 113:49

Yeah.

Rosemary Sutcliff13:55

And uh we had a lovely two years sort of very gentle love affair.

Presenter14:01

It was your decision not to be able to do it.

Rosemary Sutcliff14:03

I don't honestly know whose decision it was. The situation became impossible. My own family were so against it, and everything.

Rosemary Sutcliff14:10

And

Rosemary Sutcliff14:11

I think people's feelings were very different in those days to what they are now, about anybody with a disability being allowed to have any emotions. And um neither of us were very grown up. Even Rupert wasn't very grown up.

Rosemary Sutcliff14:24

We just couldn't cope.

Rosemary Sutcliff14:26

So that was that was that.

Presenter14:28

Another record.

Rosemary Sutcliff14:30

Yes, well it was the one that everybody was singing and whistling.

Rosemary Sutcliff14:33

Just at the time that Rupert was around, Ivan Avello's we'll gather lilacs.

Presenter15:02

Anne Ziegler and Webster Booth will gather lilacs from Ibernavella's Perchance to Dream.

Presenter15:09

So they were, Resmere, a published author.

Presenter15:12

Well, you'd published one book. What happened next?

Rosemary Sutcliff15:13

What

Rosemary Sutcliff15:15

Well I just went on writing.

Rosemary Sutcliff15:17

And I produced about three books which I very much enjoyed writing, but were very much for little girls.

Rosemary Sutcliff15:23

and they all had sort of rather more in sorrow than in anger reviews.

Presenter15:28

What do you mean by that?

Rosemary Sutcliff15:29

But I think the reviewers thought they were quite pretty and sweet, but much too sweet.

Rosemary Sutcliff15:36

And obviously thought I was just going on like this, sort of, oh my god, forever more and more of these books are going to come out.

Presenter15:41

Mm-hmm.

Rosemary Sutcliff15:42

And then after about three I began to find my own voice very slowly.

Presenter15:46

How many books have you published so far?

Rosemary Sutcliff15:49

Well, I think my most recent one was my

Rosemary Sutcliff15:51

Forty third.

Presenter15:52

That's a lot of books. That's a lot of books. And they're all historical.

Rosemary Sutcliff15:57

They're all stark and I don't think I could write a modern one. I don't know how.

Presenter16:00

Now that

Presenter16:01

Really falling into two categories, their set either before the Norman conquest or in the sixteenth or seventeenth century.

Presenter16:09

Never about the Middle Ages.

Rosemary Sutcliff16:12

I can't write about the Middle Ages. It's I don't know. It's not that I'm not interested. I love reading about the Middle Ages. I think I can't accept the way that religion permeated everything.

Presenter16:13

Yeah.

Rosemary Sutcliff16:23

The tremendous stranglehold that religion had on people's minds and consciences.

Rosemary Sutcliff16:29

I can't take this.

Presenter16:31

In which period do you feel most at home?

Rosemary Sutcliff16:33

I think in Roman Britain.

Rosemary Sutcliff16:35

I I always feel it's perhaps a little

Rosemary Sutcliff16:37

Shameful to be quite so at home with the Romans, because they were only a very bourgeois lot.

Rosemary Sutcliff16:42

But I do feel very at home with them. I still feel

Presenter16:42

I I do feel that

Rosemary Sutcliff16:44

Here I am back to home again, when I get back into a Roman story.

Presenter16:48

Do you really feel at home to the extent of believing in reincarnation or having any feelings that I've been here before?

Rosemary Sutcliff16:55

I do get feelings. I've been here before. I think I do believe in reincarnation. I hope I do. Because I think it's the.

Rosemary Sutcliff17:02

one thing that makes sense, that makes for justice and

Rosemary Sutcliff17:07

A really sensible pattern to life.

Presenter17:09

How do you work? Do you write in longhand? Do you dictate?

Rosemary Sutcliff17:13

I write in longhand.

Rosemary Sutcliff17:15

I can only create from the top of my head down my right arm and act the point of my pen.

Presenter17:20

Do you work regular hours?

Rosemary Sutcliff17:22

No. Too many things happen all the time.

Rosemary Sutcliff17:25

I begin work usually the middle of the morning.

Rosemary Sutcliff17:29

And I work on and off, as opportunity offers, until, say, seven o'clock, sort of supper time.

Rosemary Sutcliff17:36

But so many things happen through the day that temp

Rosemary Sutcliff17:39

Quite often I only get an hour's work in and sometimes I've done a whole sort of seven solid hours.

Presenter17:43

How do you set about your research? Do you go down to the local library? Do you get books sent to you?

Rosemary Sutcliff17:49

I get things from the local library.

Rosemary Sutcliff17:51

I also belong to the London Library.

Rosemary Sutcliff17:54

Um

Rosemary Sutcliff17:55

I am quite shameless about writing to people and

Rosemary Sutcliff17:58

you know, people who know about breeding horses or whatever it is I want to know about and asking a particular question.

Presenter18:04

Mm-hmm.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:05

And people are usually very kind about sharing their own expertise with you.

Presenter18:09

Your detail is meticulous. I mean the buckles of a centurion's belt.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:11

Buckles are the same.

Presenter18:14

are described and I'm sure they're right.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:17

I hope they're right. It'll take great pains that they should be right.

Presenter18:19

Yeah.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:21

Yes.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:23

And of course again I've got quite a lot of

Rosemary Sutcliff18:25

books on things like the buckles of Saint Irian's belts.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:28

I do rely very much also on this feeling. Does this smell right? Does it does it have the right feel to it?

Presenter18:33

Do you get letters? Have you ever made any error which you were ashamed to which a lot of students wrote and said, Look, you haven't done this right

Rosemary Sutcliff18:41

I have never had anything that a lot of people have written to me about, but I have once or twice made an error which has almost invariably been picked up by a sixth-form schoolboy.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:52

Six home school boys are great for me.

Presenter18:54

They know so much. Right, record number five.

Rosemary Sutcliff18:59

This I think is perhaps to do with with the kind of book I write. It's The Flowers of the Forest, played on the Pipes.

Presenter20:03

The Lament The Flowers of the Forest, played by the pipes and drums of the first battalion of the Scots Guards. Do you have any Scottish roots, Rosemary?

Rosemary Sutcliff20:12

Not as far as we know. I think I'm pure Saxon, dull Saxon, but I've always had this feel for Celtic, particularly Scottish.

Presenter20:20

Well, your latest novel, of course, is i is a Scotch subject, Bonnie Dundee.

Rosemary Sutcliff20:20

It is noble of course.

Presenter20:24

And you've been up to Edinburgh to launch it yourself.

Rosemary Sutcliff20:24

Thank you.

Rosemary Sutcliff20:27

Yes.

Presenter20:28

Your hero tells his story in in in the first person in Scots dialect, so you were taking a chance in presenting that to the Scots.

Rosemary Sutcliff20:37

But I served quite a good apprenticeship to that.

Rosemary Sutcliff20:40

For years I wrote scripts for Radio Scotland, for their school broadcasts, little plays, twenty minute plays.

Presenter20:43

Yeah.

Speaker 120:44

Yeah.

Rosemary Sutcliff20:47

and the producer, who later became a great friend.

Rosemary Sutcliff20:50

who I worked with, was actually herself a sasseneck, but she'd married into Scotland. She'd lived in Scotland her whole life. And she taught me exactly how to write the Lowland Scots and also the difference between the Lowland Scots and the Highland way of speech.

Speaker 121:04

Yeah.

Speaker 421:04

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 121:04

Yeah.

Rosemary Sutcliff21:06

So um I think this came in very useful, though of course it's not as

Rosemary Sutcliff21:09

Broad, the

Rosemary Sutcliff21:11

use that I made of it in in bodily dinner.

Presenter21:14

I've dipped into about a dozen of your books, and they seem to have one thing in common. They are told from a male point of view.

Rosemary Sutcliff21:22

Yes, that's funny because I don't think I'm a particularly masculine kind of woman.

Rosemary Sutcliff21:26

But I can't write about girls from the inside.

Presenter21:29

You have all these virile heroes, but they never chase girls.

Rosemary Sutcliff21:33

No, they're not queer either. But um

Presenter21:36

Ha ha ha ha.

Rosemary Sutcliff21:38

They're usually too busy being soldiers, career soldiers, or warriors, or something.

Presenter21:42

There there is a virtually complete absence of sexual encounter. Is this because you're writing for children?

Rosemary Sutcliff21:48

I don't think so. I I don't honestly know why. It just happened that way.

Presenter21:52

It does mean that surely that there's nobody for girl readers to identify with.

Rosemary Sutcliff21:56

That doesn't seem to worry them. They usually identify with the boys, quite happily.

Presenter22:01

Now, a few of your books, a very few, just three or four, are labelled adult. Does that mean that sex does rear its ugly head then?

Rosemary Sutcliff22:09

Yes, it does.

Presenter22:10

What age do you write for?

Rosemary Sutcliff22:13

nine to ninety.

Presenter22:15

You'll find that having got a customer at school, he stays with you.

Rosemary Sutcliff22:19

Sometimes he grows out of me in his middle teens, but then he will grow back into me again in his early twenties.

Presenter22:25

Oh, that's comforting.

Rosemary Sutcliff22:26

It's nice, isn't it?

Presenter22:28

What are we going to have next? We got to record number six.

Rosemary Sutcliff22:31

We are going to have please undermilk wood.

Rosemary Sutcliff22:34

The only record I've chosen which isn't music. Well even that's mostly a song.

Rosemary Sutcliff22:39

But um I love this. I discovered Dylan Thomas.

Rosemary Sutcliff22:42

I suppose not more than ten years ago, but he was one of the lovely discoveries of my life.

Presenter22:47

The Reverend Eli Jenkins, busy on his morning calls, stops outside the welfare hall to hear Polly Garter as she scrubs the floors for the Mothers' Union dance.

Rosemary Sutcliff22:56

Yeah.

Speaker 423:02

I loved a man whose name was Tom He was strong as a bear and two yards long. I loved a man whose name was Dick.

Presenter23:18

An excerpt from Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas, Polly Garter's song sung by Diana Maddox, and we heard, very briefly, Richard Burton as the narrator. Now going back to your books, do you construct a framework?

Presenter23:34

Before you start, or do you hit on an incident to get you going and then see what happens?

Rosemary Sutcliff23:39

No, I get an idea to start with. Never a plot. I'm not very strong on plots, but a theme which grows from the idea. Um and I do have a certain amount of framework. I've got to know

Rosemary Sutcliff23:49

How am I going to get from the beginning to the end?

Presenter23:51

Mm-hmm.

Rosemary Sutcliff23:51

and a few ports of coal on the way.

Presenter23:54

Do you write to a standard length? You know how long a book's going to be.

Rosemary Sutcliff23:56

No, I find that a book takes its own time and gets to its own proper ending place.

Rosemary Sutcliff24:01

But it would tend to take about the same time, perhaps seven.

Rosemary Sutcliff24:06

Eighty, ninety thousand words, something like that.

Presenter24:08

How many drafts do you write ordinarily?

Rosemary Sutcliff24:11

3.

Presenter24:11

That's your set rule, is it?

Rosemary Sutcliff24:13

Yes. Uh occasionally just a piece of the story would need an extra draft or even two. I have written as many as eight.

Rosemary Sutcliff24:19

But normally three drafts will do it.

Presenter24:21

And then the last one i is a polish.

Rosemary Sutcliff24:23

The last one is a polish, which is delightful to do.

Presenter24:25

What's your next book going to be? What's the period?

Rosemary Sutcliff24:28

Well, it's only a very little book, and I but I hope it's going to be all right. But it's about um this part of the world, Sussex, with a smuggling background.

Presenter24:35

That sounds fun.

Rosemary Sutcliff24:36

I hope so.

Presenter24:38

Record number seven we got to. What's that?

Rosemary Sutcliff24:41

The Larcus Ending

Rosemary Sutcliff24:44

which I have a

Rosemary Sutcliff24:45

Always had a great fondness for you before I came to Sussex, but it does

Rosemary Sutcliff24:48

express Sussex very much for me the Downs.

Rosemary Sutcliff24:52

But it expresses England altogether. If I was homesick on my desert island, I would put the Larcas Ending on and I would have England.

Presenter25:56

An excerpt from the Lark Ascending by Vaughan Williams, The Boyd Neal Orchestra with Frederick Grinker as solo violinist. You particularly wanted that performance.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:06

Yes.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:07

It's always seemed to me that none of the later performances, however gorgeous they are, have quite caught the lark as Frederick Grenke did.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:14

You can rarely feel it soaring into the sky when he plays.

Presenter26:18

Now, we've put you on this desert island. We want to make things as easy as we can for you. You'll find a ready-built hut.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:26

Keep

Presenter26:26

New fish.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:26

You feel

Rosemary Sutcliff26:27

I've never yes, I have tried. When I was five I went fishing with my father, and I couldn't think at the time, I didn't catch anything, till I realized when I was seven that the safety pin was shut up.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:38

That was my ethics.

Presenter26:38

So it does make a difference to get a little bit of a test.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:39

It does make a difference.

Presenter26:44

Do you cook?

Rosemary Sutcliff26:44

Not really.

Presenter26:46

If we gave you a boat,

Presenter26:48

Ready rigged. Could you sail it?

Rosemary Sutcliff26:50

I don't think I'd try. I think I'd stay very firmly put on my desert island.

Rosemary Sutcliff26:55

Feeling that one poem tree is very like another, and better the poem tree you know.

Presenter26:59

That's a very reasonable point of view. We've got now to your last record.

Rosemary Sutcliff27:04

Can I have cheese you would draw a man's desiring please? It's um

Rosemary Sutcliff27:08

Got this wonderful hopeful feeling. It's a sawing upward piece of music.

Rosemary Sutcliff27:12

Um it's it's all of the resurrection, everything going up into the sky.

Presenter28:17

Jesus, Joy of Man's Desiring from Bach's Cantata No. 147, The Choir of King's College, Cambridge, conducted by David Wilcox.

Presenter28:26

If you could take only one disk of the eight, which should it be?

Rosemary Sutcliff28:31

I think

Rosemary Sutcliff28:33

The lock is ending.

Presenter28:34

Right.

Presenter28:35

And one luxury, any one object that would give you comfort and pleasure to have about, but it's of no practical use.

Rosemary Sutcliff28:43

Can I have my dogs?

Presenter28:44

No, alas, alas it must be inanimate.

Rosemary Sutcliff28:46

That must be a

Rosemary Sutcliff28:47

Can I have flowers delivered daily by bottle? Fresh flowers.

Presenter28:52

I don't see why not. What sort of flowers?

Rosemary Sutcliff28:54

old long stem forest roses and flowers and, you know

Presenter28:58

Whatever is suitable for the target here.

Rosemary Sutcliff28:58

Whatever is super time of the time.

Presenter29:01

Yes, we'll arrange that. Difficult, but it can be arranged. And one book. You already have the authorised edition of the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Rosemary Sutcliff29:02

Uh

Rosemary Sutcliff29:10

Can I have Kim, please? It would have to be Kim or Kwenneth Graham's Wind in the Willows, and Kim is longer.

Presenter29:16

Roger Gipling's kill.

Rosemary Sutcliff29:17

Roddy Kipling's Kim.

Presenter29:18

You shall have it handsomely bound, and thank you, Rosemary Supcliffe, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Rosemary Sutcliff29:25

Thank you.

Presenter29:26

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 129:52

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.