Charlotte Lamb

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1983.

Speaker 10:11

And the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

This week, our castaway is the writer of romantic fiction, Charlotte Lamb.

Presenter0:35

How well could you adjust yourself to loneliness, Charlotte?

Charlotte Lamb0:38

I think very well indeed, because I'm always alone during the day, writing, so loneliness is something that I'm quite accustomed to. And in fact, I I think I like being alone.

Presenter0:49

And you could tell yourself stories.

Charlotte Lamb0:50

I could tell myself stories, yes. And also I'd be rather interested to find out how I coped with being entirely on my own. I think it would be, as Barry said, great adventure.

Charlotte Lamb1:01

How much does

Presenter1:02

Music

Presenter1:05

Do you play an instrument yourself or sing?

Charlotte Lamb1:06

No, I don't. No, I don't at all.

Presenter1:08

Did you find it very difficult to decide on just eight records you have with you?

Charlotte Lamb1:11

Yes, very difficult.

Presenter1:13

Did you have a plan?

Charlotte Lamb1:14

Yes, I chose music I'd loved for a long time, and could live with, just in case nobody came to pick me up.

Presenter1:22

Music that stood the test of time was the first one.

Charlotte Lamb1:23

The first one is Champson de Matin by Elgar. And the reason I chose it was because it was the first piece of music I remember hearing on the BBC. They used it as the theme music for a serialization of David Copperfield. And it seemed to me to evoke everything I feel about Dickens, who then was my favourite writer, everything I feel about England, and it also gives one a marvellous feeling of

Charlotte Lamb1:51

The permanent feeling of vanished world that some people have.

Presenter1:56

You said then you heard this when you were a little girl, did you?

Charlotte Lamb1:58

I was about eight and nine, yes, and I was I was very keen on Dickens. I still am, but he's no longer my favourite writer. He's one of my favourite writers. And I think this music is perfect for David Copperfield.

Presenter2:11

Jean saw the matter.

Presenter3:16

Elgar's Champons de Matin

Presenter3:18

Conducted by Sir Adrian Bolt and played by the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter3:23

What part of the country do you come from?

Charlotte Lamb3:25

In London. I was born in the East End, in Dagenham.

Presenter3:28

Brothers and sisters?

Charlotte Lamb3:29

Yes. Well, my parents were separated when I was two.

Charlotte Lamb3:33

And I grew up with an aunt.

Charlotte Lamb3:35

I did have brothers and sisters, but in fact I haven't seen them since I was a very small child.

Presenter3:40

Looking back, was it a happy childhood?

Charlotte Lamb3:42

I wasn't unhappy. I don't think I was positively happy. But I I wasn't neglected or hurt in any way, but it was just

Charlotte Lamb3:50

I felt an outsider because I didn't have parents.

Presenter3:53

Were you lonely?

Charlotte Lamb3:54

Yes.

Presenter3:54

Did you invent fantasy characters?

Charlotte Lamb3:56

Well, actually I lived in Dickens. I actually believed that the world outside my home was Dickens's London. It never occurred to me that it was a historical work I was reading. I actually believed that it was Current.

Charlotte Lamb4:10

So I I was often in places like Greenwich or Bagenham along the river, and Dickens's London, to me, was London in nineteen, say, forty four, forty five.

Presenter4:19

Uh

Charlotte Lamb4:20

London was very, very Dickensian then.

Presenter4:22

Did you read a lot?

Charlotte Lamb4:23

Oh, I read all the time. It was my favourite work passing the time.

Presenter4:27

Anything?

Charlotte Lamb4:27

Anything, anything at all. I didn't read any Blyton.

Charlotte Lamb4:31

I was reading rather tougher stuff.

Charlotte Lamb4:34

I was reading a lot of um a lot of Shakespeare. I I learnt things like Shakespeare. I learnt the whole first act of Macbeth by heart when I was about seven. Just as early as the

Presenter4:42

Just as your own enterprise.

Charlotte Lamb4:44

Yes, no one ever told me anything about these people.

Presenter4:46

You had never seen it.

Charlotte Lamb4:47

I had never seen it, no, but I I was absolutely fascinated by Macbeth for some reason.

Presenter4:51

Well you got it, school.

Charlotte Lamb4:52

No, I was absolutely dreadful.

Presenter4:54

You couldn't conform.

Charlotte Lamb4:55

I I hated school because I didn't like to be told what to read.

Charlotte Lamb5:00

I was always preferring to read what I wanted to read. I was bottom at every subject. Even English literature I didn't get for O level. I got English language, but not O English O level.

Charlotte Lamb5:10

Because I didn't do the paper, they said. I did the other paper, and they wouldn't even read it.

Charlotte Lamb5:15

Because I hadn't done the right one.

Presenter5:17

Mission.

Charlotte Lamb5:19

To be a poet at that age.

Presenter5:20

You did write some verse.

Charlotte Lamb5:21

I wrote a lot of verse.

Presenter5:22

What was your first job?

Charlotte Lamb5:24

My first job was at the Bank of England when I was sixteen.

Presenter5:26

Now, you had to have the right exams for that, surely.

Charlotte Lamb5:29

No, as long as you were polite and nicely spoken and didn't make trouble, I think.

Charlotte Lamb5:34

I I was surprised myself.

Presenter5:36

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb5:37

I had no maths or or anything like that, but they they said it didn't matter.

Presenter5:37

I've never

Presenter5:41

Oh damn.

Charlotte Lamb5:42

I well, I was going to count bank notes. I think they didn't think you needed O-levels for that.

Presenter5:46

You have shaken my confidence in the Bank of England.

Charlotte Lamb5:48

Yeah.

Presenter5:49

What did they set you to do?

Charlotte Lamb5:50

They sent me to count bank notes for the first six months. Then I went to work in a stock office working on gilt edge stocks, and that was typing them on an indelible ribbon, which at the time was extremely difficult and tiresome, but stood me in good stead later, because it meant you could not make a mistake.

Presenter6:07

You had to be very well behaved young ladies, I believe.

Charlotte Lamb6:09

Yes, we weren't allowed to wear bright colours, we had to wear navy blue overalls, we weren't allowed to wear coloured hair ribbons, we weren't allowed to speak while we were working. Really? No. From nine till four we were had to be quite silent in the office.

Presenter6:19

Really?

Presenter6:23

Was there an invigilation?

Charlotte Lamb6:24

There was a lady in a glass case who was known as a senior clerk.

Charlotte Lamb6:29

who watched us, and said, Young ladies, I saw one of you speak.

Presenter6:33

This is Dickens. This is the same thing.

Charlotte Lamb6:34

It is it is indeed. And we had a beautiful room called the Bank Note Office, where there were lovely little men like gnomes sitting on high stools, writing in copper plate, in great big ledgers, the numbers of every five pound note.

Charlotte Lamb6:47

which was made in the Bank of England. That was why they had to stop those big white five pound notes, because each one had to be followed had a history.

Charlotte Lamb6:55

I'm sure they've still got those ledgers in there somewhere.

Presenter6:58

I bet they're still doing it.

Charlotte Lamb6:58

The police used to arrive and check on the ledgers.

Presenter7:03

Let's have your second record.

Charlotte Lamb7:04

Well, my second record reminds me of England uh post war, post empire England, where everybody was rather fed up and everybody complained all the time, and it's no coward singing There were bad times just around the corner.

Speaker 47:17

It's as clear as crystal from Bridlington to Bristol that we can't save democracy and we don't much care if the Reds and the Pinks Believe that England stinks and that world revolution is bound to spread. We'd better all learn the lyrics of the old red flag and wait until we drop down dead. I like the story, land of home glory, wait until we drop down dead.

Presenter7:49

Noel Card's cheering little song There Are Bad Times Just Around the Corner.

Presenter7:53

Now, at the Bank of England, which fascinates me so much, I do want to talk some more about it, were there activities like sports clubs and dances and that sort of thing?

Charlotte Lamb8:01

Oh, there were every sort sort of activity. Uh rifle clubs, chess clubs, uh sports down at Roehampton. I was in the hockey team. Well, in the B hockey team, I wasn't good enough for the A. It was really like a good girls' school.

Speaker 48:15

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb8:17

But there was also a marvellous library which I used to spend a lot of hours in, which had a first folio Shakspere and a Doctor Johnson first edition, which we were not allowed to of course to pick up and handle, but which the librarian would allow us to look at.

Speaker 48:23

I did that.

Presenter8:24

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb8:31

In his presence.

Presenter8:33

How long did you stay with the bank?

Charlotte Lamb8:34

Just two years, and I educated myself in that library, reading a lot of literary criticism.

Charlotte Lamb8:40

They have really one of the best libraries in London. That was my main reason for wanting to go there.

Presenter8:45

When you left, had you another job in view?

Charlotte Lamb8:46

No, I just gave him my notice one day. I got angry with the senior clerk and said I am leaving.

Charlotte Lamb8:52

And I said I'm going to get a job at the BBC and they laughed because a lot of people wanted to go to the BBC, but they said it was too difficult to get into the BBC.

Charlotte Lamb9:01

However, I got a job and the B V C.

Charlotte Lamb9:04

Luckily, just before my money ran.

Presenter9:07

A job as what?

Charlotte Lamb9:08

As a secretary in the general office, which was a sort of um parachutist.

Presenter9:11

Which

Charlotte Lamb9:13

Brigade, which were parachuted into offices in the BBC when someone needed help.

Presenter9:19

Let's see. Now, there's a rumor that for a very short time you worked on this programme.

Charlotte Lamb9:24

For very for one one short day, far too short, I'm afraid, I had to gather records for a programme you did with an opera singer who chose all her own records.

Presenter9:34

Now which opera singer would that be?

Charlotte Lamb9:36

I can't quite remember.

Presenter9:38

I've got a suspicion it was Madame Schwartzkopp. Would that be a

Charlotte Lamb9:42

I can't remember who it was. I didn't know enough about Opera in those days, but I remember everybody commenting on the amazing fact that she had chosen only her own man.

Presenter9:50

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb9:50

Coping.

Presenter9:52

No, only seven, I think, to be accurate.

Charlotte Lamb9:53

I think to be accurate.

Presenter9:55

And how long were you with the corporation?

Charlotte Lamb9:57

For about two years.

Presenter9:58

And then what?

Charlotte Lamb10:00

Then I got married and we went to live in Folkestone.

Presenter10:03

You married a a chief sub-editor on The Times. Where did you meet?

Charlotte Lamb10:07

We met at a young Conservative meeting.

Charlotte Lamb10:09

Well, it was a a political meeting in in Ilford Town Hall.

Charlotte Lamb10:13

And uh he asked a very long and boring question about nuclear disarmament, I think it was, or trade unions, and

Charlotte Lamb10:20

I thought, why doesn't that man sit down so that we can all go out and have a drink? Because uh like all young Conservatives, we had joined in order to have a good social life. We weren't interested in politics. So that was how I met him. He was a political correspondent.

Presenter10:34

You've got him to ask shorter questions now.

Charlotte Lamb10:37

None at all.

Presenter10:41

Your third record.

Charlotte Lamb10:42

My third record is the magic flute, and it's the quintet from the first act.

Speaker 410:51

Oh man, you'll mention

Speaker 410:58

Most of the

Speaker 110:59

Yeah.

Speaker 411:17

I'm not sure if I can do it.

Speaker 411:20

Not a

Speaker 411:22

So emphasis and file constant.

Speaker 411:27

Pushed it first in this.

Speaker 411:31

Body meeting.

Speaker 411:37

I'm accepting

Speaker 411:43

See y'all so legna, Mr. Rastorlov, brother of

Presenter11:49

The quintet from the first act of Mozart's The Magic Flute, a performance conducted by Herbert von Karian.

Presenter11:56

So you were married and living in Folkestone. You produced rather a large family, didn't you?

Charlotte Lamb12:00

Yes, I have five.

Presenter12:02

So there was a lot of work to do in the hut.

Charlotte Lamb12:04

There was quite a lot, but I still found a lot of time to read.

Presenter12:07

Yes.

Charlotte Lamb12:08

Because I I that was what I enjoyed doing. I didn't watch television.

Presenter12:11

You read exceedingly fast.

Charlotte Lamb12:13

Exceedingly fast. Yes, I can read a Mils and Boom book in twenty-five minutes. I once read War and Peace from start to finish in under three hours. Really?

Presenter12:20

Really?

Presenter12:24

Is that something you were taught or does it come naturally?

Charlotte Lamb12:25

No, it it's it's something that comes quite naturally. It was something I did automatically, I suppose. It it's a great desire to know what the book is about. I tear through it at tremendous speed.

Presenter12:36

Spatio absorbital.

Charlotte Lamb12:37

I absorb it all, yes, and I also have a tremendous recall that I can remember books I read twenty years ago, even if I've never even seen them since.

Presenter12:45

At that time in your early married life had you ever thought of writing?

Charlotte Lamb12:49

I thought of writing poetry. I used to write a great deal of poetry, but I didn't think of writing novels.

Presenter12:52

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb12:55

Never written a novel at all, or tried to write anything like that.

Charlotte Lamb12:58

But my husband said to me, You keep reading all this time, and you're always telling stories to the children and to me.

Charlotte Lamb13:04

Because when we were first married I used to tell him stories in bed before he went to sleep, like Shehavazard.

Speaker 413:10

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb13:11

And so he said I ought to write, and I tried. He took a day off work on a Friday, and I was going to write one chapter. I sat down and wrote a whole book in three days.

Presenter13:21

What sort of book would you have?

Charlotte Lamb13:22

It was forty thousand words long and it was a romantic novel intended for Melzenbohn.

Presenter13:27

In three days.

Charlotte Lamb13:27

In three days.

Presenter13:28

That's twelve and a half thousand words a day.

Charlotte Lamb13:31

I've done more than that now since uh not always. I sometimes only do two or three thousand, but

Charlotte Lamb13:37

Fifteen thousand is not unknown.

Presenter13:39

I mean, it's incredible to imagine any anybody typing that amount of

Charlotte Lamb13:42

Well, that was the Bank of England training I told you about.

Presenter13:45

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb13:47

I learnt to type very, very fast and I never make mistakes.

Speaker 413:50

Hmm.

Charlotte Lamb13:51

I'm very, very accurate when I type.

Charlotte Lamb13:53

And I can type at the rate of about a page every f six minutes, I think it is. Yes. Which is quarter pages, which is about three hundred words on my pages.

Speaker 414:00

Yeah.

Presenter14:00

Yeah.

Presenter14:05

So you wrote this forty thousand words, then sent it straight off to Mills and Boone?

Charlotte Lamb14:09

No, I sent it to an agent.

Presenter14:11

Well, that's fine, but

Charlotte Lamb14:11

And he sent it to a paperback house. He didn't send it to Mils and Boone.

Presenter14:13

He didn't

Speaker 414:14

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb14:15

He didn't think I'd get into Melsenbohn. They're very difficult. They don't accept many manuscripts.

Speaker 414:21

Hmm.

Charlotte Lamb14:22

Most people who write to them soon discover this. They have three thousand manuscripts a year which they turn down.

Presenter14:27

So you started with someone else.

Charlotte Lamb14:29

I started with someone else. I don't even remember who that was. It was a paperback house.

Presenter14:33

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb14:33

My next book, however, was a very, very long book, a historical novel, which was very bad, and when I read it I knew it was bad.

Charlotte Lamb14:42

which was um was a great relief to me afterwards. I didn't send it to anybody. I c cut it right down and I used it as a short historical novel.

Presenter14:52

Hmm.

Charlotte Lamb14:52

Which was serialized in Women's Realm.

Presenter14:55

There's a story about one of your early books which you had no confidence in at all, and you would throw it in the dustbin. And then how many copies were sold afterwards?

Charlotte Lamb15:03

Copies were sold afterwards?

Presenter15:06

Who retrieved it? Did you?

Charlotte Lamb15:06

Well, my husband, because I decided it was dreadful, I threw it in the dustbin and walked away and left it there. And my husband was watching from the window, so he sneaked out.

Charlotte Lamb15:15

got it up, brushed mashed potato and things off. It was mashed potato that was on it, and sent it off to my editor, and it was one of the biggest successes I ever had.

Presenter15:22

It may be dreadfully said, but it'll sell a million.

Charlotte Lamb15:27

It was a very unusual book because that also was about a girl who was raped.

Charlotte Lamb15:32

Um but that was uh a a

Charlotte Lamb15:35

Very different sort of book. It was really about a woman who is frigid because someone has attacked her, and years later, when she's married, she cannot actually go to bed.

Charlotte Lamb15:44

with her husband because she's so scared. And the book is called The Long Surrender because of the whole book is about the husband trying to persuade her that sex is wonderful.

Presenter15:53

Yes.

Speaker 415:53

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb15:53

So it was from a totally different angle, you see.

Presenter15:56

Now you said another book about rape. You have, in fact, branched out from your usual romantic line and written a rather more serious book.

Charlotte Lamb16:01

A mad

Charlotte Lamb16:02

And written a rather more serious book. It's a very modern book, I think, and it's very serious. I was writing honestly about rape. One of the things that irritated me about the situation in women's fiction was that we were getting books that treated rape as something to be enjoyed.

Charlotte Lamb16:26

I think of it as hard pornography almost. One particular book had a girl who was raped forty seven times, and I believed that this woman would be in a lunatic asylum at the end of it.

Charlotte Lamb16:36

So I wanted to write a book which was honest about the subject.

Speaker 416:40

Mm.

Charlotte Lamb16:41

and didn't um glamorize it. I hate books that glamorise that sort of thing. So I wrote this book which is called A Violation and which has been published by Fontana, not Mills and Boone.

Presenter16:53

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb16:53

Right. Well, this is Elkie Books, and it's called Fool if you think it's over. And my children taught me to love Elkie Books, so this is for them.

Speaker 417:05

All eyes always cry with pain at the first look at the moment.

Speaker 417:14

Who if you think it's over? It's just thinking

Presenter17:34

Elkie Brook singing Fool if you think it's over.

Presenter17:37

Charlotte Lamb is not your real name, is it?

Charlotte Lamb17:39

No, it isn't. My real name is Sheila Holland.

Presenter17:42

Why did you turn?

Charlotte Lamb17:43

My husband picked the name Charlotte Lamb. He wanted a name that was familiar to people and would sound pleasant.

Presenter17:50

How do you mean familiar?

Charlotte Lamb17:51

Well, it's really based on Charles Lamb or Charlotte Bronte, whichever way you'd like to look at it.

Presenter17:56

I'm afraid.

Charlotte Lamb17:56

And so it it just sounds like a romantic novelist's name.

Presenter18:00

Now you're also Sheila Lancaster and Laura Hardy.

Charlotte Lamb18:03

Yes, that's right.

Presenter18:03

That's right.

Charlotte Lamb18:04

Where did those names come from? Well, Sheila Lancaster was picked by the publisher, Hodder and Stoughton, who published these historical novels that I did under that name. And Laura Hardie I chose because it reminded me of Laurel and Hardie. Again, I it was a subliminal hint to the reader that they would like these books.

Presenter18:21

They would like.

Presenter18:23

How many romantic novels have you written?

Charlotte Lamb18:26

Romantic Sixty Twenty Historicals

Presenter18:28

That's in what, ten years?

Charlotte Lamb18:30

twelve

Presenter18:30

Twelve.

Presenter18:32

and presumably not three days each.

Charlotte Lamb18:34

No, no. I take a few weeks or so in between books. I always say it's to let the bucket fill up.

Presenter18:40

So how many in a year?

Charlotte Lamb18:42

In a year it depends. One year I did seventeen. So far this year I've written five books four romantic novels for Milsenboon, and one for Fontana.

Presenter18:51

How do you start? You cast around for a basic idea.

Charlotte Lamb18:54

No. I don't cast around for anything. I sit there well I just go on doing whatever I want to do, reading.

Charlotte Lamb19:01

listening to music and then suddenly I think of a person. It all starts with characters. I don't even think of them, they just float through my head. And I follow that person like Alice following the white rabbit. And they produce a home, they have a family background, friends, a job. Everybody has their life with them. And from that springs the story.

Presenter19:23

The conflict, the excitement.

Charlotte Lamb19:24

The conflict and the excitement of love. Most people's romance has some seeds of conflict in it.

Charlotte Lamb19:31

The moment when you fall in love, when it's really love, when it's someone you're going to marry, it's a very magic special time, I think. You always remember the days when you were courting, when you before you were married.

Charlotte Lamb19:41

And that's what I'm writing about.

Charlotte Lamb19:44

Anything can happen inside a book as long as it has this particular magic.

Presenter19:49

Your titles are rather special, that they're terse, they're usually one word, and rather dramatic.

Charlotte Lamb19:53

One word. Rather dramatic. Yes, they're thematic. They're meant to tell the reader, without opening the book, what the book is about. If the book is called Betrayal, she knows it's going to be about betrayal. And if uh a reader doesn't like books like books about frustration or fever, she won't buy it. But if she does and they usually do

Presenter20:15

Oh, I'm a fever fan, I must have that work.

Charlotte Lamb20:16

And desire, seduction. They tell you what the book is going to be about.

Presenter20:20

They test

Charlotte Lamb20:23

I think one word has far more uh impact on the reader quickly looking along the title shelves. She sees one title, Desire.

Presenter20:31

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb20:32

No doubt what that's about is the

Presenter20:33

And it's a headline. It's a very good question.

Charlotte Lamb20:34

That's a headline. Yeah, exactly. It's like a good headline. It tells you i as simply and quickly as possible what that book is about.

Charlotte Lamb20:42

And it works. I'm sure that's one of the reasons I sell so well.

Presenter20:47

You've been saying she. Have you any man readers?

Charlotte Lamb20:50

I don't think I have. I may have one or two hiding in cupboards with books in brown paper wrappers, but

Charlotte Lamb20:57

Usually the readers are women.

Charlotte Lamb20:59

Ninety nine percent of the readers are women.

Charlotte Lamb21:02

Men don't really understand romantic fiction. They not only don't write it, they can't read it.

Presenter21:08

You pride yourself on getting a good opening sentence.

Charlotte Lamb21:11

I do like to get a good opening sentence because if the reader is looking at the book before she's bought it.

Charlotte Lamb21:18

I like her to feel before she's got to the end of the first page that she is already reading the book, she's already in the middle of the book.

Charlotte Lamb21:26

I don't like books where you have to fight your way through into the book. I like the reader to fall in right from the first sentence. I call it the hook.

Charlotte Lamb21:35

You hook them in and they're yours for the rest of the book.

Presenter21:39

You write with such facility, Charlotte. I mean, you can you can tear through a book in just a few days. How much research do you do beforehand?

Charlotte Lamb21:41

Mm-hmm.

Charlotte Lamb21:47

Sometimes I do ten years. I when I wrote a book about Mary Fitton, Shakespeare's Dark Lady, I spent ten years thinking about it first. That's why I write so fast, because in fact

Speaker 121:55

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb21:57

The book is already written before I sit down at the typewriter. Often I know whole pages of the stuff by heart before I actually put it on paper.

Speaker 422:05

Yes.

Charlotte Lamb22:06

and the research can take me years.

Charlotte Lamb22:09

Or it can take me two days. Sometimes I don't do any research. I was on Mykonos for one day, and an idea for a book came to me.

Charlotte Lamb22:17

It's a Greek island. And while I was there, I suddenly thought of an idea for a book, and I didn't write it for a year.

Charlotte Lamb22:24

But that book actually was born and conceived and and written almost in my head in one one day.

Speaker 422:30

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb22:31

On the other hand, the Mary Fitton book, I read

Charlotte Lamb22:33

Endlessly in Elizabethan history, I researched until I knew honestly what the weather was like on every single day.

Presenter22:40

Were you making extensive notes or were you just getting a general picture of the material?

Charlotte Lamb22:43

No, no, I made extensive notes for the Elizabethan book.

Charlotte Lamb22:47

In fact, I had a whole series of books lined up.

Charlotte Lamb22:51

On my shelf.

Charlotte Lamb22:52

Each year I had a little exercise book of its own, so that I could cover the weather, what the harvests were like that year, because that makes a big difference in historical novels. If the harvest failed there were always going to be riots in the spring.

Presenter23:06

How many million Mills and Boone books are sold in a year?

Charlotte Lamb23:09

In this country thirty million and abroad across the world two hundred and fifty million.

Presenter23:15

What's your share of the sales?

Charlotte Lamb23:16

I have so far only sold fifty million altogether.

Presenter23:19

A mere fifty minutes.

Charlotte Lamb23:21

Believe me, some of them who've been writing for, say, twenty years have probably sold more.

Presenter23:25

I'm not asking you to confirm or deny this, but I did read in one press story that your own royalties are roughly to the extent of a quarter of a million pounds a year.

Charlotte Lamb23:34

Well, vaguely. That has been the case for some years now.

Charlotte Lamb23:38

Whether that will continue to be, of course, is another matter, because it is royalties. I don't get salary.

Charlotte Lamb23:44

If I don't write that many books and the books don't sell, I wouldn't earn that much.

Presenter23:48

Call it what you like. It sounds very satisfactory.

Charlotte Lamb23:49

Sounds like a sound.

Presenter23:52

To ease the attack situation, you live now in the Isle of Man. Yes. Do you enjoy that?

Charlotte Lamb23:58

I love it. It's a beautiful place. I love living there. I wouldn't want to come back.

Presenter24:03

Record number five.

Charlotte Lamb24:05

Rhapsody in Blue by Gershwin, played by Andre Previn.

Presenter25:06

The opening of Girchwin's Rhapsody in Blue, Andrea Preven playing the piano and conducting the London Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter25:13

Charlotte, do you identify with your heroines when you're writing?

Charlotte Lamb25:15

Yes, it's absolutely essential because it's the heroine the reader is identifying with.

Charlotte Lamb25:20

And this identification is part of the hook.

Charlotte Lamb25:23

That the reader is experiencing the book, she's not just reading it.

Charlotte Lamb25:28

And that's why the emotion has to be powerful, because it that's what you're giving them. You're allowing them to relive their own romance.

Presenter25:36

These are feminist days, yet millions of women by

Charlotte Lamb25:39

Even remote

Presenter25:39

Romantic.

Charlotte Lamb25:40

It's it's extraordinary that over the last decade, which has seen the rise of feminism in this country and in America, the rise of romantic novels has almost paralleled it. So that the two things seem to have

Charlotte Lamb25:53

come up together. And I don't know whether it's that women are reacting against feminism or if it's merely that more women have more money.

Presenter26:02

Well, it seems that they are reacting. There's a sort of reversal of roles here in your books. The men are the sex objects.

Charlotte Lamb26:08

Yes, that's absolutely true. That's exactly how I see it.

Charlotte Lamb26:12

that it's the woman looking at the man. That's why men can't write them, because if it's a man writing the book, he is a man writing about a woman being in love with a man.

Presenter26:14

Uh

Charlotte Lamb26:21

Which gets us into a sort of Mozart situation.

Presenter26:25

Do many readers write to you?

Charlotte Lamb26:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Presenter26:27

Do they get answered?

Charlotte Lamb26:29

I write to those who get to me directly. I don't write to those who write to Milsenborne.

Charlotte Lamb26:34

Because Mills and Boone have a system of dealing with those. But if people actually take the trouble to write to me themselves, I answer the letter.

Presenter26:42

Now the mechanics of writing, you you you tear through a book in in a few days. How much revision do you do afterwards? Do you do a second draft?

Charlotte Lamb26:49

A second draft? No, I never do a second draft, but if an editor asks me to rewrite and explains why she wants me to rewrite, I always do so. I never refuse.

Presenter26:59

You say she, the editors are.

Charlotte Lamb27:00

The editors are always women, thank goodness, because I find that women understand romantic fiction better.

Charlotte Lamb27:08

So if an editor picks up one of my manuscripts and says, I feel that you've missed a chance in chapter four to explain exactly why she is feeling like that, I will look at what she said and I will rewrite it.

Presenter27:15

To it.

Presenter27:22

Do certain backgrounds go down especially well? Yes. Advertising agencies or backstage or hospitals at least?

Charlotte Lamb27:27

Or house.

Charlotte Lamb27:28

I never write in hospitals. I know nothing about the medical world at all. But I do know something about journalism and I do know television and I do know the theatre to some extent. So, yes, obviously the more glamorous backgrounds are the most interesting, but I have set them in the bank.

Charlotte Lamb27:45

A bank.

Charlotte Lamb27:46

I've just done one, in fact, which was about a merchant bank expert. A girl, this is, the heroine, was an investment expert in a merchant bank.

Presenter27:56

Do you know anything about investment and that's the only thing that's not?

Charlotte Lamb27:57

Yes, a great deal. My husband is permanently

Presenter27:58

Yeah, my husband is.

Charlotte Lamb28:01

Unfortunately.

Charlotte Lamb28:03

Telling me about things like that.

Presenter28:05

Now your daughter Sarah is writing too.

Charlotte Lamb28:07

Yes, that's right. She's been writing for Mosenburner for about three years. She's twenty one.

Presenter28:14

How many has she written?

Charlotte Lamb28:15

He's written five books.

Presenter28:16

Only five in three years she's letting the family down with.

Charlotte Lamb28:17

Uh

Charlotte Lamb28:20

But she went to drama school and she gave up writing.

Presenter28:21

And she got

Charlotte Lamb28:23

And then she got pneumonia, so she's left drama school, and at the moment she's recording a song.

Charlotte Lamb28:28

She's been going round EMI and people like that to try to get a recording contract. So she's in th in three years she's tried everything.

Presenter28:37

She'll be going back to writing.

Charlotte Lamb28:39

She will always be writing, I think. Yes. She's very good at it.

Presenter28:42

What about the other four children?

Charlotte Lamb28:43

My oldest son, Michael, is twenty two and he's a pop musician. My sixteen year old Jane is at school doing her levels. And I have nine year old twins, David and Charlotte, who don't do anything in particular.

Presenter28:57

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb28:57

They're not yet in production, I'm afraid. The family are waiting for them.

Presenter28:58

Not afraid.

Presenter29:01

Now your husband is doing some writing.

Charlotte Lamb29:03

Yes, he is writing a book, but he hasn't finished it yet. He's largely spending most of his time running the family investment funds, because he somebody has to look after the money while I'm writing the books.

Presenter29:16

So you've really you've got a family of firm going?

Charlotte Lamb29:18

I've got a family firm, yes, we're hoping one day to be known as the Holland Dynasty.

Presenter29:26

Charlotte, let's have another record.

Charlotte Lamb29:27

Well, I'd like to have Karloff's Carmena Burana.

Charlotte Lamb29:31

Because when I was at school, I was at a convent school and we learnt Latin when we were six years old and the first songs I ever learnt were Latin songs, Latin hymns. And when I was about fourteen I remember reading Helen Waddle's book, The Wandering Scholars, which is about monks in the Middle Ages making up songs and singing all over the continent. And Karl Orpheus set some of these to music.

Charlotte Lamb29:56

And this is the record, and I'd like to have this.

Speaker 430:09

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Speaker 430:14

Okay oh

Speaker 430:17

Okay, yeah, get my

Presenter30:56

An excerpt from Karloff's Carmina Burana, the new Philharmonia Orchestra and some singers and choruses conducted by Raphael Frubeck de Burgos.

Presenter31:05

Of course, Charlotte, romantic fiction has changed. It used to be hand holding and wedding veils. But nowadays characters spend a lot of time in bed together.

Charlotte Lamb31:12

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb31:15

I do, indeed, yes.

Presenter31:16

Even orgasms are mentioned, right?

Charlotte Lamb31:18

Oh yes. They're very popular in Miles and Boon.

Presenter31:22

Now, you've written this more developed novel.

Charlotte Lamb31:28

Hmm.

Presenter31:28

A violation.

Charlotte Lamb31:29

Hmm.

Presenter31:29

Are you going to try and keep the two stars going side by side?

Charlotte Lamb31:32

Yes, I am. I shall write probably just one book a year of this sort, because this takes much longer, and also because you spend so much time thinking about the book before you can write it that it uses up a lot of my year just planning it.

Presenter31:46

Absolutely.

Presenter31:47

And there's a long novel of yours.

Presenter31:50

That's just come out as Sheila Holland.

Charlotte Lamb31:52

Yes. This is a book called Secrets, which is a family saga, set in the nineteenth century and ending after the First World War. I wrote it about four years ago when it was commissioned by an American publisher, but it has never been published in this country before.

Presenter32:08

Is Miss Holland continuing to write historical novels?

Charlotte Lamb32:11

I haven't actually decided yet. I think it would depend how well Secrets sells. If it becomes a bestseller I might consider it.

Presenter32:19

Yes. Well, you can't call secrets an historical novel, can you?

Charlotte Lamb32:21

It is a historical novel, yes, because it really covers the change in English society between the Victorian era and the beginning of the twentieth century.

Presenter32:31

Yes, I see. Modern history.

Charlotte Lamb32:35

Oh, well, yes. I have written a large number of Elizabethan books.

Presenter32:39

There

Charlotte Lamb32:39

It's my favourite period actually, Elizabethan.

Presenter32:43

Record number seven.

Charlotte Lamb32:44

Record number seven is Nanda Muscuri, singing Les Parvepuit de Chevourg.

Charlotte Lamb32:50

And the reason I'd like this is because it will remind me of family holidays in Greece and in France.

Speaker 432:59

Pouret Jean Merim sans duire.

Speaker 433:06

Jeanne pour l'espal.

Speaker 433:10

Armaged Jean Mouret.

Speaker 433:15

Anastason to a jexte par.

Presenter33:24

Nana Mouscour is singing a song from Les Para Puis de Cherbourg, Oh, my Love, Don't Leave Me. Now you're on this desert island, Charlotte. Could you look after yourself?

Presenter33:35

I like the sound of that. You could fix up shelter and pressure.

Charlotte Lamb33:35

As I say, categorically, yes.

Charlotte Lamb33:39

I could well, I w it wouldn't be a a very beautiful structure, but I suspect I would be able to keep myself warm and dry, which I think is the most important object.

Speaker 433:48

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb33:48

Yeah.

Presenter33:48

Yeah. Right.

Charlotte Lamb33:48

Uh

Presenter33:48

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb33:49

And I would certainly be able to find food on the island, because I used to spend a lot of time free food gathering in the English countryside when we were first married.

Speaker 433:58

That's

Presenter33:59

You know what you can eat and what you can't eat.

Charlotte Lamb34:01

Yes, I do. Yes. I would be able to find all sorts of things which I can eat. I have a pretty shrewd idea about

Presenter34:07

Now, there is a test for poisoning which you as an ex-countrywoman know about.

Charlotte Lamb34:10

Well, yes, you you first of all you look at whatever it is, a a flower, say, and you look at it very carefully to see whether it it smells funny, or whether it looks a a strange colour. There are some colours apparently which are signs of danger to birds. There is a colour I think it's orange is is a danger colour. If it's a a berry.

Charlotte Lamb34:34

Purple certainly is. Purple is a very nasty colour. Then when you've tested it that way, you can pick it if it's a leaf, you rub it between your elbow and your shoulder. And if the skin doesn't react by forming an allergy rash, then you can be pretty sure that it's not poisonous. You can then take the third test, which is to taste some, but only a tiny little bit. And if you don't die, you know it's okay.

Presenter34:57

Here's

Presenter35:01

That's very sad.

Charlotte Lamb35:01

But I I gathered that purely from watching um the Royal Marines survival expert on television giving a course on survival.

Presenter35:09

I hope he was right.

Charlotte Lamb35:11

Well the World Marines seem to survive, okay, don't they?

Presenter35:15

Are you a good cook?

Charlotte Lamb35:15

I'm a very good cook.

Presenter35:16

Desert Island cooking.

Charlotte Lamb35:18

I once had to cook on a open fire because the pipes froze and then they thawed and and burst and there was no gas or electricity in the house and I cooked on an open fire in a small saucepan for three days for a family of five. So I think I'd be able to manage.

Presenter35:35

Oh, you've got your castaways badge.

Presenter35:38

Would you try to escape?

Charlotte Lamb35:39

No. My husband's told me firmly not to stay there, and Miles and Boone will come and look for me.

Presenter35:43

You'll be planning a desert island novel with

Charlotte Lamb35:46

I shall be writing as fast as possible.

Presenter35:49

And we've come to your last record.

Charlotte Lamb35:51

My last record is Bach's fourth Brandenburg play.

Presenter35:54

Yeah.

Charlotte Lamb35:55

Because he would restore my sense of balance on an island where I was alone. He's a very sane sound, and I know that if I was feeling hysterical and panic stricken, I would only have to play this, and I would immediately feel calm and tranquil and sane again.

Presenter37:09

Bach's fourth Brandenburg concerto, played by the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Herbert von Karian.

Presenter37:17

If you could take only one disk.

Charlotte Lamb37:19

I'll just

Presenter37:19

Out of the H you played, which would it be?

Charlotte Lamb37:21

It would be the buck.

Presenter37:22

the Bach, Brandenburg, and Chadre. And one luxury to have with you.

Charlotte Lamb37:26

A typewriter, please, and some paper. Then I can be absolutely certain that Mills and Boone will charter a ship and come and look for me if they think I'm producing somewhere in the world whole piles of Charlotte Land books.

Presenter37:38

They're not going to miss that. And if you could take one book to the island apart from the Bible and Shakespeare.

Charlotte Lamb37:43

If it would be a

Charlotte Lamb37:45

Yes, it I would like to have a a thousand books, but as I can only have one, I'm going to have one I've always loved since I was about ten years old, Pride and Prejudice, because it will make me laugh and also improve my style.

Presenter37:57

Right. And thank you, Charlotte Lamb, for that. Thank you very much. I've enjoyed it very much.

Charlotte Lamb38:01

Thank you very much. I enjoyed it very much. I'm sure it's going to be a marvellous island. There's so many famous people there.

Presenter38:07

Well we have to break it down after everybody's built it up actually. You have to start from scratch on the screen.

Charlotte Lamb38:12

Oh, that's very disappointing. I thought I was going to find so many interesting people there.

Presenter38:17

Goodbye everyone.

Speaker 138:43

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.