John Gunter

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty three, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

On iDesert Island this week is the stage designer John Gunter.

Presenter0:34

John, do you think you have the right temperament to be cast away alone?

John Gunter0:39

Theatre designers tend to be hidden away in sort of attics and so maybe one can almost down one's own company up to a point. I work an awful lot with background music. God forbid I shouldn't really talk about the classics like that, but one does actually work an awful lot with music as a background and a solace to what you're doing. Do you play an Yeah.

Presenter0:58

True.

John Gunter0:59

And no, and not now. I used to years and years ago.

John Gunter1:03

I started off on the violin and because they thought I was so bad at that they decided to put me on to the uh viola. God knows they thought that that was a simpler instrument to play. And I soon then gave that one up as well. Have you a big collection of records?

John Gunter1:17

Not a vast collection of records, but there are some very treasured.

John Gunter1:22

Right.

Presenter1:22

Yeah.

John Gunter1:22

Yeah.

Presenter1:22

Looking at the list of eight you've chosen, is there any common denominator, do you think?

John Gunter1:27

I don't think so. I suppose the only thing one could say about them that a lot of them have a very dramatic quality about them. I think that uh there probably one would say there's a theatricality there somewhere in it. What's the first one? The first one is Walton's First Symphony.

Presenter1:34

I'm

Presenter1:37

Right.

John Gunter1:43

And it's conducted by Bernard Heitig, and it's the beginning of the piece. Why do you choose it?

John Gunter1:48

Theatricality? No, I mean actually I love Walton, I always have, and if I had a chance I would have choose many others of his, but I had to plump for one and this would be it.

Presenter1:49

Do you

Presenter2:56

The opening of Walton's first symphony, the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Bernard Heitink.

Presenter3:02

Are you a Londoner, John?

John Gunter3:03

I was born outside London in Billariki.

Presenter3:06

In Essex. An artistic family, using that word in in in quote.

John Gunter3:06

Yeah.

John Gunter3:11

In quotes, yes. My mother started to train as an actress but had to, from family reasons, give it up.

John Gunter3:18

But uh my father was a doctor, GP.

Presenter3:20

What

John Gunter3:21

Were you going to be? You went to Branston, thinking of becoming what? Thinking of becoming a doctor and following, obviously, in father's footsteps. But I was dissuaded by him quite early on, so I never got I mean I got to the stage of doing all the requisite sciences and cutting up all the the rabbits and the dogfish and everything else, but uh he decided that it was really not the thing that a a young lad should follow. And so I was sort of cast adrift and I then had to try and find something to do. So what interested you apart from cutting up dogfish?

John Gunter3:53

I drew then and I made the model aeroplanes and this and that and I really don't know why it was theatre, but uh it was through friends and I don't know if it was as it were the influence of or suggestion of my mother, but I then went to art school.

John Gunter4:10

To study theatre design. I went to the Centre School of Art and Design. Had you been to the theatre a lot as a child? Yes, yes. So I was very conscious of it, yes.

Presenter4:15

Yeah.

Presenter4:18

Whose work did you admire among designers?

John Gunter4:20

Well, certainly when I became a little more discerning and understanding of Jocelyn Herbert,

John Gunter4:25

and of course Sean Kenny, who was flourishing.

Presenter4:28

So you graduated at at the Central School. Where had you been able to practise? Had you been doing amateur shows and that sort of thing?

John Gunter4:34

Not at all, not at all.

Presenter4:36

There were no shop windows for you.

John Gunter4:38

No. I mean I

John Gunter4:39

I had a wonderful experience of actually designing a show for my mother, who was directing a piece, and we fell out and so it never happened.

Presenter4:47

So you didn't really tread a stage until you got your first professional job. Absolutely. Which was where?

John Gunter4:53

Which up in the Belgrade in Coventry. Mm-hmm. And uh the first show I ever designed up there, in fact, was the costumes for the rivals, which

John Gunter5:02

Rather ironic now, having just done the arrivals of the n

Presenter5:05

Yeah.

John Gunter5:05

Yeah.

Presenter5:06

Let's have your second record before we talk about all that.

John Gunter5:08

That is Boris Blacker's Variation on a Theme of Paganini.

John Gunter5:13

And I got this record a long, long time ago, and I've rather I found it very exciting.

Presenter6:15

An excerpt from Boris Blacker's Variations on a Theme of Paganini, played by the Radio Symphony Orchestra of Berlin, conducted by Ferenc Fritschau.

Presenter6:24

Where did you move on to after Coventry, Don?

John Gunter6:27

I actually left the theatre, Grande. No, I left the theatre because I was given an offer to do some other work, and I left it for about six months, eight months. What sort of work? It was in fact doing some work for antique shops in London.

Presenter6:35

So it's all the work.

John Gunter6:40

And I had done some work way back and had some stuff sold at Woolen's, I think it was the name of the shop years ago, and Peter Jones. Like textiles, and that's it. No, no, no, it was in fact constructions, it was things like birdcages and strange things like that. Display. Yeah, well, it was no, it was actually for sale. It was just for some eccentric buyer who wanted to buy it. And then we moved on to grand things like making copper fruit trees. So we made orange trees and lemon trees and things like that. And I made some garlands and things like that. And they were sold.

Speaker 17:10

Yeah.

John Gunter7:11

Good. But uh I found it too hard work and it was terribly hard work actually.

John Gunter7:15

And so I went back to the theatre again and I went back to Hornchurch.

Presenter7:19

Mm-hmm.

John Gunter7:19

And that was a two weekly, and that was a little less money.

John Gunter7:22

And a lot of hard work, so you had to help make and paint as well as uh design. So you were designing overnight and making painting during the day. Did you ever have to go on?

John Gunter7:32

I did, not at Hornchurch, but I did uh actually at the Belgrade in the first job and I was shoved in as sort of extra crowd.

Presenter7:39

All hands to the pumps.

John Gunter7:40

Absolutely. Absolutely. But I had every trick played on me because I was certainly not used to it. So I had these actors playing every trick they could do. They played on me.

Presenter7:51

The Bristol Little, which is the Bristol Theatre.

John Gunter7:53

Yes, yes. And was designing a bit at the Vic, but mostly I was sort of resident designer with the Little Theatre.

John Gunter8:01

Let's have your third record. What's that? This one will be Janacek's Sinfonietta, and we'll be playing at the very end where we'd come back to the original fanfare. Why'd you choose it?

John Gunter8:12

Well actually I heard it on one of your programmes years and years ago and I loved it then and I went out and bought it and uh who chose it? It was Peter Neusnoff. So he did. That was the first time

Presenter8:22

Yeah.

John Gunter8:22

Yeah.

Presenter8:22

Yeah.

John Gunter8:23

I heard the work I remember. But I've loved it ever since.

Presenter8:41

Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it.

Presenter9:26

The closing passage of Janacek's Sinfonietta played by the Bavarian Radio Orchestra conducted by Rafael Kubelik.

Presenter9:33

John, you became resident designer at the Royal Court in Sloane Square, London. That was still in the theatre's great days, the days of stark social realism and all the rest of it.

John Gunter9:43

Yes, I mean, it was obviously a very exciting time. Unfortunately I never worked with uh George Devine. I came in when Bill Gaskell was the artistic director.

John Gunter9:53

and uh was resident designer for a year and but then after that designed as a freelancer.

Presenter9:58

Which productions there during your year do you remember?

John Gunter10:01

Well, I did the first production of Saved and uh

John Gunter10:05

That obviously was exciting because of course the theater sensor was still going strong and we were

John Gunter10:11

Very near the age I don't think we had to convert it into a club, I'm sure we didn't, but there I know there was tremendous problems about stoning a baby on stage and

Presenter10:20

Who wrote saved?

John Gunter10:21

Edward Barn.

Presenter10:22

And then you did the DH Lawrence trilogy. That was a little later, wasn't it?

John Gunter10:26

That was uh somewhat later when uh I worked with Peter Gill. I mean that was fascinating because of course we went uh into the Lawrence country and met miners and uh looked at their living conditions and

John Gunter10:40

For certainly a Southerner, and I suppose, quote, a middle-class Southerner, it was an eye-opener. I mean, I was really was taken aback in the conditions they were working in.

John Gunter10:48

And that was one of the reasons, I suppose, that we put in such detail into the whole uh atmosphere of the said, because one was very uh, I suppose, disturbed by what we'd seen up north.

Presenter10:59

A play in which you put a vast amount of detail was the contractor, and that the play consisting mainly of a lot of chaps putting up a marquee.

Presenter11:07

Yeah.

John Gunter11:07

Yes, that was great fun because what we did there was we went back to the firm that David Story actually worked with uh and what in fact I suppose was the germ obviously the germ of the play and uh of course they were very concerned of how they were portrayed in the play and in a way of course the play was dictated by the the tent and and I was dictated I mean the the whole design was dictated by the tent.

John Gunter11:31

And it was tremendous fun, of course, having these actors putting it up and down, up and down. But it it was complicated because it was not a complete tent. It had to be open so the audience could see. So there was considerable technical problems, but it was uh

John Gunter11:44

Uh really rather a standing show.

Presenter11:46

On a bad day it was inclined to heal over a bit.

John Gunter11:48

I think it probably is.

Presenter11:50

Yeah.

Presenter11:52

Your first big London production was the R S C, wasn't it, the Royal Shakespeare Company, Julius Caesar.

John Gunter11:59

Yes, yes. I did that in fact at the time or just after doing the D. H. Lawrence's and uh it was I mean I'd always been worried about doing Shakespeare and my it was my first sort of uh cursion into that and uh I don't think I mean my particular part of it didn't really work. I know that we had several different versions of it by the end.

Presenter12:17

So you eventually got it right at the old win.

John Gunter12:18

Well, absolutely. And I in fact spent all the money to go to America to see uh

John Gunter12:24

My wife, or my future wife.

John Gunter12:26

And uh

John Gunter12:28

I thought that the money was extremely well spent.

Presenter12:29

Where had you met her?

John Gunter12:30

I'd met her in Vancouver. She was uh Micheline was dancing in Glen Tetley's company in Expo.

John Gunter12:38

And I was across there with The Mermaid designing some shows, two shows.

John Gunter12:43

For the mermaid tour there. And I was sitting about a bit because there were so many productions being put on.

John Gunter12:50

And they had allowed me something like a week to make all my sets and I'd been sitting around for two weeks so I uh fell in love with a lady instead.

Presenter12:57

Yeah.

John Gunter12:57

And she inspires your next record. She inspires my next record, which is uh Tim Hardin.

John Gunter13:03

And uh song while you're on your way.

Presenter13:06

Making love has been as much.

John Gunter13:07

Yeah.

John Gunter13:08

I

John Gunter13:11

Uh

Presenter13:11

As I could have hope it would be

Presenter13:15

Every night has been like one night to me.

Presenter13:24

You've got me feeling in

Presenter13:27

Feeling you gave me before, but to you, those nights like any other night tonight.

Presenter13:36

Just just one more.

Presenter13:39

Tim Hardin, while you're on your way.

Presenter13:42

John, on what terms does a theatre designer work? Presumably a producer telephones you and says, I've got a play here, which might be your cup of tea. Would you like to read it? Where do you go from there?

John Gunter13:52

Well, in fact, I think that uh seventy five percent, if not more, probably eighty percent of the time you are approached by your director. Either that you've worked with him before, or her before, or that he might have or she might have seen productions of yours. When I first worked with Richard Ayres, I was actually introduced by Michael Contran to him. But it's that's rare, that's rare.

Presenter14:16

You were invited to do several productions for both the Royal Shakespeare and the National Theatre. Your most recent for the Royal Shakespeare Company was All's Well That Ends Well, about two years ago, directed by Trevor Nunn, and you elected to set that in a gigantic conservatory.

John Gunter14:34

It was, I suppose, arrived at through preliminary discussions with Trevor, and then where he had talked about glass.

John Gunter14:43

And he couldn't really exactly say why he felt it should be glass.

Presenter14:47

It was put into the nineteenth century, for example.

John Gunter14:49

Uh right. We both come to the opinion that that was right. I mean, in in fact what was rather interesting we'd gone away to read the play, having been initially asked, and then came together and almost like twins we said it almost in unison, it should be in

John Gunter15:03

The late nineteenth century, early twentieth.

John Gunter15:05

And then after that, after the original discussion and talking about glass.

John Gunter15:11

We then had a a rather good lunch and I prompted Trevor to tell me how he'd make it into a film.

John Gunter15:17

And that sort of expanded out the whole ideas of about how you could set the piece.

Presenter15:22

And not a real film, but a filmic construction.

John Gunter15:23

Exactly. It was just a fantasy of really just talking it through really as much as anything else, but talking it through in much more filmic terms than stage terms.

John Gunter15:33

And then of course I mean I had already been looking at uh references and books about the the period and luckily that period has got wonderful books, photographs of the period and it was very interesting that one suddenly saw cropping up again and again constructions that were enormous great railway stations or uh um greenhouses or whatever you like. And it sort of felt that I should get into that area.

Presenter15:55

So

Presenter15:58

Say some watercolour sketches next.

John Gunter16:00

No, surprisingly not, partly because we were running out of time. That what usually happens. I mean, a lot of designers do find they have to do that process.

John Gunter16:08

I'm probably because I'm not I'm not a g a well enough draftsman, I find I I'd prefer to get as quickly as possible into uh the three-dimensional model. And I made a very small model.

John Gunter16:19

and a 1 to 50 scale, which is really quite small.

John Gunter16:21

Just to rough out the idea, and it really was just an idea without totally working scene by scene, and I took that in to Trevor.

John Gunter16:30

and he liked the ideas. I then went away and expanded it into that film script and got totally out of hand and it became totally over designed and we then after that had to bring it back and reduce and pare down.

John Gunter16:42

until we found that we thought we had absolutely the right

John Gunter16:45

Uh essence for each scene.

Presenter16:47

And of course you've got the use of all sorts of new materials now that the scene designer would never use.

John Gunter16:50

Yeah.

John Gunter16:51

Never you.

John Gunter16:52

Mind you, it's somewhere like the Barbican and like the Olivier at uh National Theatre, there are uh tremendous limitations too, because there are of course uh uh regulations, uh fire regulations, etcetera. But it then makes one much more, I suppose, on one's metal to be able to produce the right thing. I mean, in a way that said for all's well.

John Gunter17:11

is in some respects quite traditional in its material, though we w did use a lot of glass that had to be of a certain standard for the fire authority.

Presenter17:20

Now is the set usually built in the theatre? Or is it sent out to contractors or what?

John Gunter17:24

Send up.

John Gunter17:25

Depending on of course the theater. I mean the RSC and the National Theatre have their own workshops, but if you're doing a West End show and the opera houses, they would go out to contractors. And of course you have preference to who the contractor should be. Depending of course on the nature of the design. I mean some people are better in specializing in certain areas than others.

John Gunter17:44

So that the process really is that once you've got as far as having it approved by your director, I mean you've made a model of it and you've made then a bigger model than the one I mentioned before, because that's much too small. One really has to work in a 1 to 25, which is the normal sort of practice within theatre. And then the workshops, whoever they might be, whether it be the contractors or the in-house people, would then look at it with, of course, drawings that you've got to do. And they are like architects' drawings. Though one hasn't got to go through the rigorous training as an architect, I mean one doesn't have to have done all the stresses and strains of different materials.

John Gunter18:22

But what one has to do is put down on a drawing exactly what you designed, or else of course it doesn't end up on the stage quite the same.

John Gunter18:29

So that it is very important for the costing, for the construction, that you make very, very accurate drawings of everything that you've designed.

Presenter18:37

Uh

John Gunter18:37

You do some other painting yourself? Not any more. I mean, in one's in one's youth, when almost in reps, certainly. I mean, that was part and and parcel of the job. But uh

John Gunter18:46

No, not really any more. I mean, if you are working in something like the National Theatre or the RSE, of course they have experts to do that.

John Gunter18:55

And that's what's so exciting. I mean, the excitement, of course, of interpretation of a design. I mean, you have an idea with your director about your design.

John Gunter19:03

which is then submitted to a workshop.

John Gunter19:06

which has got to be interpreted through that workshop. Each individual personality of that workshop will have his own say or her say about how it's done, especially when the painting comes about or when you're making props. And then of course the actors will have a say, certainly they will have a say, and they may and it has been known, they will not like what they see because they feel certain things just simply won't work for them.

John Gunter19:27

And that certainly comes about when you're when you're designing costumes for them.

Presenter19:31

It is of course a a lengthy process. You're occupied on on one play for what, three months sometimes from the

Presenter19:37

First sketch is down to the first night.

John Gunter19:40

It could be. I mean, generally, yes. Um but it can be very short.

John Gunter19:44

If you're working in opera, of course, it generally is much longer gestation period. I mean, uh you can go I mean I have actually worked in an opera for over a year.

John Gunter19:53

Before it actually gets near the final designs on the stage. But the norm is about three months and

John Gunter20:02

It's the discussion and then the realization and then all hell breaks loose when it first arrives on the stage. The inevitable remark is when the director you lead him round very gingerly or he may burst in through the back of the stalls and say, Oh my God, is this really what I was what?

John Gunter20:20

And then the actors come on and they go. No, it's a terrible period for everyone. I mean, for the director, because he's got to get everything together and it's only a few more days before it's all.

Presenter20:27

Yeah.

Presenter20:28

The slight element of panic comes in as you've got 48 hours before the curtain goes up.

John Gunter20:31

We've got 40

John Gunter20:33

Absolutely. I mean it's the nature of the theater in this country, i that's when it all seems to start. And and if it works, that's where it all really gets together. Certainly when you're working abroad in Germany, there's really no adrenaline going at all. We seem to rely on the adrenaline to really pump us through those last few days.

Presenter20:49

Which way?

John Gunter20:49

Uh What do you prefer?

John Gunter20:51

I would prefer, of course, some of the German advantages without the German temperament, but the English adrenaline, because there are disadvantages in both sides, of course. But the excitement is, of course, is to see how our production is made or broken in those last few days.

Presenter21:06

Do you remember any particular first night panic anywhere? I mean going back to your rep days or whatever?

John Gunter21:11

Oh, many oh, many. I mean, I remember being thrown off the stage in hysteria by the artistic director and said, This play will never go on if you stay here any longer and by that time I was so tired, two of us, and we were in tears.

Speaker 121:20

And by that time I

John Gunter21:24

just pure frustration'cause we couldn't finish it. But then those tears turn to absolute tears of joy just to be turned off the stage'cause we had to finish. Oh no, there there's been some dreadful times, but there have also been some extremely exciting times and it's Like, I mean, I will always remember the first night of Orswell, because we'd worked very hard, quite obviously, on it, and technically it was a very, very hard show to do, and it was all manual. I mean, we hadn't got the American

John Gunter21:51

whiz kiddery of putting it all mechanized. And it was all pushed about, and it was just the marvellous

John Gunter21:58

playing of the stage hands as well as the actors.

John Gunter22:01

That it worked, and I mean, for the first time in my life, I almost passed out in the middle of the performance because I couldn't believe it was going so well. I mean, it wasn't.

Presenter22:08

It went wonderfully well in London, but the New Yorkers weren't so crazy about it. What went wrong in America?

John Gunter22:14

I wish I knew. I wish I knew. It is um without being offensive to the Americans, but it uh it seems they just don't like to sit on their behinds for three and a half hours. I don't know. I mean it is yes, it is a problem play, it is a play that is really done, but I think it is an extraordinary production by Tavanan that gives a tremendous clarity to the piece.

John Gunter22:34

that it would I would have thought beholden to anyone who is interested in Shakespeare to go and see it.

Presenter22:39

I don't think so.

John Gunter22:40

It was just a shock to us to find it uh um very hard for them to concentrate.

John Gunter22:46

And it I just think it's so unfair on the poor actors who had to go through this nightly.

Presenter22:51

Hmm.

John Gunter22:51

try and get their attention.

Presenter22:54

We've got to record number five.

John Gunter22:56

And that is Britain's Serenade with the Peter Pears and Dennis Brain.

John Gunter23:02

And I choose this because I've always loved it. I've loved actually Britain, but again, it was very hard to choose which, and this happened to be the one that I like, I suppose, the best.

John Gunter23:16

Yeah.

Speaker 423:16

The splendor of horse uncastle wars and snow is on its own in story.

Speaker 423:28

Oh the light chains are crazy

Presenter23:31

Across the lakes and the wild cataract leaps in glory.

Speaker 123:34

Oh I have

Presenter23:40

No bugle blue.

Speaker 423:44

Uh

Speaker 123:44

Yeah.

Speaker 423:44

Set the wild echoes flying.

Speaker 123:52

Once a echo's on

Speaker 423:54

Not

Speaker 423:58

Dying, dying, dying.

John Gunter24:00

Try

John Gunter24:07

Yeah.

John Gunter24:07

Die, die.

Presenter24:13

The Nocturne from Britain's Serenade. Pete appears with Dennis Brain playing the horn and the Boyd Neal String Orchestra conducted by the composer.

Presenter24:22

What was your first job for the National Theatre, John?

John Gunter24:25

That was uh Death a Salesman with uh Warren Mitchell wonderfully playing a leading part.

Presenter24:31

And wonderful facilities, of course, at the National when the machinery is working.

John Gunter24:31

Uh

John Gunter24:36

Unkind.

Presenter24:37

Um

John Gunter24:38

I think we I mean, one is extremely privileged to I mean, seriously, one is extremely privileged to work there because there's tremendous skill and I've had tremendous fun in the shows that I've done there and with the facilities that they have to offer.

Presenter24:51

Now one of the most celebrated sets for many years was the National's production of Guys and Dolls, that company's first big musical. A wonderful opportunity for everyone who took full advantage.

John Gunter25:03

Oh, that was tremendous. Yes, that was tremendous fun. Tremendous fun. I mean, already one's looking back at it and great nostalgia.

John Gunter25:11

Only

Presenter25:11

And it's still in the replica.

John Gunter25:11

It's still in the repertoire though, but it's it seems to but for Richard, Richard Ayers to have given me the opportunity to do that and for all of us to have such a wonderful time doing it, the rehearsing and just getting it together.

John Gunter25:25

It seemed um almost unfair privilege.

Presenter25:28

It was very much New York. You researched it carefully.

John Gunter25:32

Yes, and I love the place. I mean, my wife is a New Yorker, and of course I've been across there several times and uh love the place. And it was just in that sense a a a returning love and also a love of the early musicals. I mean the musicals of Just After the War and the films that were made just after the war.

Presenter25:52

You had all that enormous backspace to fill with neon tubing and heaven knows what. It must have been great fun. Tremendous.

John Gunter25:55

Yeah.

Presenter25:59

How soon does the lighting designer become involved?

John Gunter26:04

Well usually one can get the lighting designer in very early on. I mean he wouldn't have done any ideas about how he wants to light the show.

John Gunter26:12

But uh if you've presented a problem

John Gunter26:16

That needs their advice, whether it be projections, whether it be a certain lighting effect, or whatever.

John Gunter26:22

Then it's advisable to talk to your Leitenzeiner very early on.

John Gunter26:26

I mean, I certainly um when we talked about neon for instance with uh guys and dolls.

John Gunter26:32

David Hersey was brought in very early on because we were, I mean, I was a total novice about neon. I mean I had really I mean the idea was wonderful, but how do you put it into practice? And we'd found out that it was not so expensive to get the basic neon together, but the machinery to make it do all its tricks, it's flickering, it's changing the different colouring and etc. It was very expensive.

Presenter26:54

Yes. And also with using lights actually on the stage like that, y you must be careful not to blind your audience.

John Gunter27:00

Absolutely. Absolutely. What we were very lucky about, and this is where David came in, is we found very early on, of course, that we could.

John Gunter27:07

put the neons through the house lighting board, which meant that you could then dim them so we could then concentrate on the poor old actors and not blind the audience with all this neon. I know that Sue Blaine, who's the costume designer, when she first heard about this neon said, I'm going to make those costumes very bright to compensate all that. But it was wonderful because I mean the intriguing thing about neon is as you're burning a gas you can reduce the intensity

John Gunter27:35

of electricity going through it, but it still retains its color. It doesn't lose its colour.

John Gunter27:40

and so that we could take it right the way down and still get an impression of what we wanted.

John Gunter27:45

without losing it totally or the colour changing.

Presenter27:48

You followed Guys and Dolls down with another spectacular set that took people's breath away the Rivals, where you seem to have crammed most of eighteenth century bath onto the Olivia stage.

John Gunter28:02

Yes. In a way the theatre almost gave itself I mean, gave one the opportunity to do that, to put the whole crescent of Bath on the stage. It seemed to be absolutely a sort of natural thing to do.

John Gunter28:13

Once doing that, of course, it was then trying to find a solution to get to the interiors.

John Gunter28:17

which we try to do smoothly and easily.

John Gunter28:21

And intimately, because of course, none of the scenes are that big. They're all

Presenter28:24

No.

John Gunter28:25

small in number. I mean there's two handers, three handers, four handers. And so one had to get into the best position on that stage to do those sort of scenes.

Presenter28:33

So you do it by breaking up part of your your crescent, your eighteenth century crescent, and opening each section out to the scene.

Presenter28:43

And you also done the set for De Musset's Lorenzaccio, and at the time that we're speaking, all three productions at the Olivier Theatre are yours.

John Gunter28:52

Embarrassment, yes.

Presenter28:55

Right, record number six.

John Gunter28:57

Record number six is Spach's double concerto, violin concerto, played by the uh oestras, David Father and Igor, son.

Presenter30:07

The opening of the second movement of Basque Concerto in D minor for two violins and string orchestra, BWV one oh four three, and it was played by Igor and David Oustrach with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Eugene Gussens.

Presenter30:22

Now, John, you mentioned working in Germany. In fact, you have and have had for some years a German connection.

John Gunter30:29

I went over to Zurich, to the Zurich Schauspielhaus, and was resident designer there for about three and a half, four years. And in that time one then worked in and around the German-speaking theater, which sort of ranged from Vienna, from the Borgtheater to Berlin to all over Hamburg.

Presenter30:47

meant a lot of backwards and forwards, but it is useful to have that second string to your birth.

John Gunter30:52

Oh yes, oh yes. And mind you, when one was there, of course, it's absolutely a natural thing for

John Gunter30:58

a designer or a director or even actors to work all over the place because it's there is no centre, not like London, and so that you tend to uh design from the aeroplane and drop it out, as they keep on saying in derogatory fashion.

Speaker 131:04

So that

John Gunter31:10

And you're always on the wing. You've designed opera. Yes, in Germany. And here too, but mostly, I mean the majority of the opera work I've done has been in Germany.

Presenter31:14

Yeah.

Presenter31:19

Are conditions in any way better for the designer? Do they have more appreciation?

Presenter31:24

For his work.

John Gunter31:25

It's a different approach to design over there. I mean, for a start, the public are prepared to give more money towards the arts.

John Gunter31:33

That's not a criticism against our public, but it's just an attitude. And because, of course, Germany was divided up into so many different uh kingdoms and municipalities that they guide with one another to get the best theatre or the best opera house. So it's always been a tradition to have uh

John Gunter31:49

a very good opera or Schauspenhouse within your particular city. And uh even to this day they give a great deal more money towards the arts or the performing arts.

John Gunter32:00

uh the area I know, than uh we would do. And uh of course we can be easily jealous of that. Whether the result is any better, that is for other people's opinion. I mean I certainly have

John Gunter32:11

Been very influenced by the work that I've seen over there, and I know that it has helped me as a designer to have worked there. And you certainly do have.

John Gunter32:20

greater opportunities to expand your capabilities and understand a bit more your own talent.

John Gunter32:26

But it can lead to indulgences, that's for sure.

Presenter32:29

Is there any one particular production you want to tackle? I mean, Ben-Hur or whatever?

John Gunter32:33

I know that sounds awful. It's uh I've got to get bigger and bigger and bigger. No, I uh I no, not at all. I just love the challenge that comes up each time one does a production.

John Gunter32:43

and inevitably that becomes your only love until it's gone and you then move on to the next one is terribly fickle and you know yeah really and truly one doesn't love any particular production more than any other

John Gunter32:54

Except for the one you're working on, which you think is the only thing in the world.

Presenter32:58

Record number seven.

John Gunter32:59

Recon number seven is Poulanx Gloria.

John Gunter33:04

And I kept on hearing this on the plane when I was doing a show in in New York.

John Gunter33:09

And uh I was very taken with it.

Speaker 433:19

We are the agency state.

John Gunter33:23

From the army entrances they hold from the earth.

Presenter34:07

Come to the elections to live

Presenter34:11

The opening of Poulanck's Gloria, played by the French National Radio Orchestra and Chorus, conducted by Georges Pretre.

Presenter34:19

Now the practical side of desert island existence.

Presenter34:22

Shelter obviously would be no problem for you. I mean, you could construct cleat lines out of creepers and.

John Gunter34:29

I suppose so. I mean, it sounds though it should be great fun, building one's own house. I'd hate it, I think, really. But I mean, I'm sure I could do it, yes.

Presenter34:35

Madame

John Gunter34:37

Have you ever done any fishing?

Presenter34:38

Yeah. Yeah.

John Gunter34:39

My father was a keen fisher, so I was brought up in all that.

Presenter34:39

You have.

Presenter34:42

Well that's useful.

John Gunter34:43

Can you cook?

John Gunter34:45

My wife would say no. I try and pretend that I still can cook a little, but uh, as I would have thought it'd be quite primitive, I might just get by.

Presenter34:53

Any experience of small craft would you try to escape?

John Gunter34:56

I would probably be scared to death of going out into that um blue yonder. I don't know. I mean one would think that one is driven between the two, or whether it will be b b one's own boredom or go out and brave it. I don't know. I'll try, I think, in the end.

Presenter35:11

Yeah.

John Gunter35:12

Yeah.

Presenter35:12

Probably.

John Gunter35:12

And that is uh Guys and Dolls and it's just before the final uh number or prize and it's Marry the Man Today.

Speaker 435:22

Why not?

Speaker 435:24

Why not what?

Speaker 435:28

Marry the man today.

Speaker 435:32

Trouble though he may be

Speaker 435:36

Much as he likes to play.

Speaker 435:40

Crazy and wild and free, marry the man today rather than sigh and sorrow, marry the man today and change his ways tomorrow.

Presenter35:52

Marry the Man Today from the National Theatre production of Guys and Dolls, sung by Julia Mackenzie and Julie Covington. If you could take only one disc of the H you've played, which will it be?

John Gunter36:03

It would be the Walton, the first symphony.

Presenter36:05

And one luxury to take to your island, nothing of any practical use.

John Gunter36:10

Well, I want to be cheeky and in fact take more records.

John Gunter36:13

And if it were possible to have more Walton, I'd take more Walton.

Presenter36:18

Oh

Presenter36:19

How

Presenter36:20

You're bending the rules a bit here. No, I there is a boxed set of some of Walton's works that he conducts himself. I don't see why you shouldn't have that.

John Gunter36:29

That sounds splendid.

Presenter36:30

Good. And one book, you already have the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

John Gunter36:35

Um I'd like again, rather sneakily to get my favourite author bound in in one enormous volume, and that would be Flanner Brown, and to try and get as many of his books into that one enormous bound volume.

Presenter36:47

Right, we'll name two or three essentials.

John Gunter36:49

Well like third policeman or poor mouth.

Presenter36:51

We'll do what we can. And thank you, John Gunter, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

John Gunter36:56

Well, thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

Presenter36:57

Goodbye everyone.

John Gunter36:57

Careful.

Speaker 137:23

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio forward.