Sinead Cusack

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 20:05

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1983.

Speaker 20:11

And the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

This week our castaway is the actress Sinead Cousack.

Presenter0:35

She naird, could you endure being a castaway?

Sinead Cusack0:38

Well, I've thought about it quite seriously.

Sinead Cusack0:41

I'm one of those awkward people who um like to be alone, but hate being left alone.

Presenter0:48

Nice distinction, yeah.

Sinead Cusack0:50

So I think that I might fret quite a deal on my island. But I did think that I could occupy myself for quite a few months.

Presenter0:56

How much does music mean to you? You have this miserable allowance of eight records.

Sinead Cusack1:01

I'm not very musical myself, and I am the butt of a lot of family jokes,'cause I got a f

Sinead Cusack1:07

My family are all very musical.

Sinead Cusack1:09

and they think I'm a strange being indeed.

Sinead Cusack1:12

Because I simply can't remember. I l there's certain pieces of music I adore. I can never remember who composed them or who played them or.

Speaker 31:15

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack1:19

But uh yes, I do listen to music a lot, particularly when I'm on my own. Do you play an instrument? I used to play the piano, but I gave it up'cause I was appalling. And I used to get rapped on the knuckles by my music teacher. Uh

Presenter1:29

It's very

Sinead Cusack1:30

Cruel.

Presenter1:31

So you found it a hard job to choose?

Sinead Cusack1:33

Oh yes, it's a terrible task.

Sinead Cusack1:36

Really awful task.

Presenter1:38

How did you set about it? Were you choosing favorite artists or?

Sinead Cusack1:41

No, not favorite artists. Well, with one or two exceptions. Um

Sinead Cusack1:46

No, I started off by trying to

Sinead Cusack1:49

Like one of my records, the Brook Violin Concerto, I chose because it was the first piece of classical music that I remember.

Sinead Cusack1:57

that moved me and made me aware of classical music. Others I have I've chosen for nostalgic reasons, for home and family and

Presenter2:06

Right, let's take them one by one. What's the first one?

Sinead Cusack2:09

Well, the first one is from Ireland, which is where I come from, and it's Carrick Fergus, sung by Tommy Clancy.

Presenter2:16

Why do you choose this?

Sinead Cusack2:17

Well, simply because it reminds me of home, and there's a there's a phrase in it about the sea and not being able to swim over, nor having the wings to fly, and when I feel lonely for Ireland.

Sinead Cusack2:28

Those sentiments are close to my heart.

Speaker 32:29

Car.

Sinead Cusack2:30

Yeah.

Speaker 32:31

I wish I was.

Speaker 32:35

In Cari Fergus

Speaker 32:39

Only for nights.

Speaker 32:42

In Bali Grande.

Speaker 32:46

I would swim over the deepest ocean.

Speaker 32:53

Only for nights.

Speaker 32:57

In Bally Grand

Presenter3:00

Carrick Fergus by Tommy Clancy and his brothers. Whereabouts in Ireland were you born?

Sinead Cusack3:06

I was born in Dublin City, but reared about eight miles south of Dublin on the coast, a little town called Dorkie.

Presenter3:13

Let's get your Christian name sorted out. Schenaird. Do I pronounce it right? Or reasonably right?

Sinead Cusack3:18

Perfectly.

Presenter3:20

Now, this is not your real name.

Sinead Cusack3:21

No, no. My real name is Jane. I'm ashamed to admit. Plain Jane. I changed my name when I was eleven years of age.

Sinead Cusack3:29

I was educated through Gaelic.

Presenter3:32

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack3:32

Almost my first language was Gaelic. I was

Presenter3:34

So you are bilingual.

Sinead Cusack3:35

Yes.

Sinead Cusack3:36

And then when I was eleven I left my Irish school, my Irish speaking school, and was transferred to a convent run by English nuns. And I think I was desperate to retain my Irish identity in that set up.

Sinead Cusack3:50

So I kept my Irish name.

Presenter3:52

Now, your younger sister, who is also an actress, she also adopted an Irish name.

Sinead Cusack3:58

Yes. She followed a year later to this English convent boarding school, and she kept her name of Saracha.

Presenter4:01

Boarding

Sinead Cusack4:05

We'd become so accustomed to

Presenter4:06

That's Irish voice.

Sinead Cusack4:08

Placera.

Presenter4:09

Uh

Presenter4:10

You have other brothers and sisters, quite a few.

Presenter4:13

But

Sinead Cusack4:13

Well, altogether there's two brothers and two sisters. There's my elder brother, Paul, who's sane and normal and has a name like Paul. And then there's myself, Shana, and then Saracha. And then there are two little ones who came along twelve years later. And there's Nieiv.

Sinead Cusack4:28

who's twenty three, and um my brother Porik, who's twenty one.

Presenter4:32

And they're all in the art.

Sinead Cusack4:34

I'm afraid they're all in the arse. Nobody has a sane or sensible job. My big brother Paul is a television director and my sister Sarah's an actress with the Royal Shakespeare Company.

Sinead Cusack4:44

And the little ones um well they're no longer little, but we still call them the little ones. Niev was trained as a flautist and indeed she was a very talented flautist, but unfortunately in the last few months she has decided to become an actress. So there will be three QSAC girls, and they're also all going to be in the Barbecue complex, because I'm with the Royal Shakespeare Company as well, and she's about to start studying at the Guildhall School of Drama.

Presenter5:10

Right next door.

Sinead Cusack5:11

Yes. And my younger brother Porik is a cellist training at the Northern College.

Presenter5:15

And you're all the sons and daughters of that celebrated actor Cyril Cousack.

Sinead Cusack5:19

That's right.

Presenter5:21

Does the theatrical line go further back?

Sinead Cusack5:23

Yes, indeed. My grandparents my father's parents were travelling players, and they toured the provinces of England and Ireland.

Presenter5:31

By traveling players you mean fit-up players.

Sinead Cusack5:32

Fit up players, yes, you've got the correct terminology, fit up players. And my dad used to travel I mean my my father started acting when he was five years old. and used to travel with them, playing in most of the plays.

Sinead Cusack5:43

And he would go to a different school every week. He would knock on the door of the local school and say, I'm with the actors, can I come to school? Extraordinary childhood.

Presenter5:51

Oh, nevertheless, he got through university, I happen to know there.

Sinead Cusack5:53

Indeed, indeed he did. He was a very determined fellow, my dad. He read some extraordinary subject, though something very unlike him, like economic history.

Presenter6:03

Really?

Sinead Cusack6:03

Yes, I'm totally wrong for him.

Presenter6:06

She did.

Sinead Cusack6:06

Death.

Presenter6:07

Did you take it for granted that you were going to be an actress?

Sinead Cusack6:10

Oh, no, indeed

Sinead Cusack6:12

I wanted to be a nun.

Sinead Cusack6:14

Quite a long time.

Sinead Cusack6:15

In fact, I wanted to be a saint.

Sinead Cusack6:17

And that takes longer.

Presenter6:17

That takes longer.

Sinead Cusack6:19

Takes longer. No half measures with me. I want to be a saint. And then I did a play with my father. He asked me to do a play that he'd written.

Sinead Cusack6:26

an adaptation of Kafka's Trial, and he created a character of a deaf mute called Phoebe.

Sinead Cusack6:33

And he asked me would I do it in the summer holidays.

Presenter6:36

How old are we then?

Sinead Cusack6:36

And of course

Presenter6:37

And of course you did.

Sinead Cusack6:38

I did. And that, I think, was when the the bug hit me.

Presenter6:42

And did you do players at school?

Sinead Cusack6:43

Indeed, I wrote a lot of plays as well.

Presenter6:44

You wrote a lot of plays.

Sinead Cusack6:45

Oh, I did, yes, and did them. There was one very nasty episode in my life, when I was at my convent school.

Sinead Cusack6:51

I am

Sinead Cusack6:53

I wrote when I was fourteen. It was during the time of the Perfumer Affair, do you remember?

Presenter6:57

Yeah, yeah.

Sinead Cusack6:58

Well, we used to have an edited newspaper in our school, and they'd cut out all the salatious bits of the affair, so I never knew what was happening in the Profumo affair, but I thought it was current and interesting, so I I wrote a little piece for the Headmistress's Feast Day, where every a play, a sketch, every class had to do a sketch for the headmistress and the assemble school. And I played um Christine myself, and my best friend played Mandy Rice Davis, so he also played Stephen Ward, and uh

Presenter7:12

Yeah.

Speaker 27:12

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack7:26

All the celebrations were stopped. Once it took the nuns about five minutes to recognise what was happening up there on the stage. And then when they recognized what was happening, all celebration was stopped. My parents were called and I was threatened with expulsion.

Presenter7:39

Oh dear.

Sinead Cusack7:40

It's frightful.

Presenter7:42

You had a greater success with a play about Charles the First.

Sinead Cusack7:45

How did you know about that? Yes, I did quite well on that one. Yes.

Presenter7:48

You played the title role, of course.

Sinead Cusack7:50

Yeah.

Presenter7:50

Yeah.

Presenter7:52

Pity you met such a sad end.

Sinead Cusack7:53

It was a sticky idea.

Presenter7:54

In Act Three.

Sinead Cusack7:56

A sticky ending.

Presenter7:57

Now what happened when you left school?

Sinead Cusack7:59

When I left school, well, my parents, and particularly my father,

Sinead Cusack8:05

Very much wanted us to have a a strong academic foundation. And also, my dad thought I might possibly be an academic at heart.

Sinead Cusack8:13

So he virtually insisted.

Sinead Cusack8:16

That we go through university. So I went to University College Dublin.

Presenter8:19

To rate what?

Sinead Cusack8:19

To read English. In my first year, I read French, Spanish, Latin, and English. That was a busy year. It was. It was a very busy year because I also joined the Abbey Theatre in that year.

Presenter8:28

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack8:29

And uh

Presenter8:29

Right, let's talk about that in a minute. That's important. Let's have your second record.

Sinead Cusack8:34

Well the second record is is the Brook violin concerto and

Sinead Cusack8:38

I heard that record played at my school, and it was the first time that classical music really hit me. It moved me to tears. I thought it was so beautiful.

Sinead Cusack8:48

And I've I've always loved it since.

Presenter9:45

Part of the slow movement of the Brook First Violin Concerto, Kyung Hua Chung, with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Rudolph Kempe.

Presenter9:53

Right, so there you were, studying all those subjects at university, and also playing at the Abbey Theatre.

Presenter10:01

Well, the ambiator has always been sort of partly amateur, hasn't it? I mean, it never pays much money.

Sinead Cusack10:06

Oh, very, very little money in my first year

Sinead Cusack10:10

I was on three pounds ten shillings a week.

Presenter10:13

Could you manage both the theatre and your studies? How did you plan your day?

Sinead Cusack10:19

It was a very schizophrenic existence, and it was a very mad existence, and I shouldn't have attempted it.

Sinead Cusack10:24

The problem was I auditioned without telling my father and mother. I auditioned at the Abbey and I got in, so it was fait accompli I presented them with.

Sinead Cusack10:32

So what I did was I I would attend rehearsals in the morning at the Abbey because

Sinead Cusack10:38

Fortunately for me the Abbey actors don't rehearse in the afternoons, so I would rehearse in the mornings, skipping my lectures at university, then I would hop up to the university in the afternoon and attend my tutorials, which were necessary, and then in the evening I'd do the show.

Presenter10:52

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack10:53

What is terrible?

Sinead Cusack10:55

What sort of pass did they give you? Oh, not very good par. I wasn't very good. I remember I played a very interesting part of a dipsomaniac in a play called The Country Woman of the Year.

Sinead Cusack11:05

In those days we were at the Queen's Theatre. It was before the New Abbey had been built. And the diet of plays we played at the Queen's were not very good. They weren't of a very high standard. The Country Woman of the Year was one of their worst worst ever. Then I I did graduate a little when we moved into the um the New Abbey Theatre, slightly larger roles. And my first my first role at the New Theatre was at the opening of the new theatre.

Sinead Cusack11:31

And we celebrated this in great style by putting on a play by Louis MacNeese.

Sinead Cusack11:36

called One for the Grave.

Sinead Cusack11:39

Very auspicious title. It was based on the Everyman theme.

Sinead Cusack11:43

and I was playing Every Man's First Love.

Sinead Cusack11:46

and I was supposed to symbolize all that was pure, innocent, untouched by a human hand.

Sinead Cusack11:53

and we had a very touching little scene, myself and every man, down the front of the stage, and on the first night of the New Abbey Theatre,

Sinead Cusack12:01

Place was

Sinead Cusack12:02

with celebrities and T D's and uh we had this touching little scene.

Sinead Cusack12:06

where I had to look out into the middle distance.

Sinead Cusack12:09

and turn to every man, and say,

Sinead Cusack12:11

So we're looking at a river in the middle distance. I have to say.

Sinead Cusack12:14

Look at that couple in the punt over there.

Sinead Cusack12:18

and on the first night

Sinead Cusack12:20

I got it wrong.

Sinead Cusack12:22

And you can imagine how I got it wrong. A little malapropism that has never been forgotten in the history of the Abbey Theatre.

Presenter12:22

I can imagine how I got it wrong.

Presenter12:29

Oh, you've gone down in theatrical history in Dublin.

Presenter12:32

You you were in a feature film, too, that was made in Ireland.

Sinead Cusack12:36

Indeed I was.

Presenter12:36

A rather big one.

Sinead Cusack12:37

Yes, a rather bad one too.

Presenter12:40

What was it?

Sinead Cusack12:41

He was called Alfred the Great.

Presenter12:43

You didn't play Alfred.

Sinead Cusack12:46

David Hemmings played Alfred. It was a wonderful cast. I mean, a really stunning cast. We had Ian MacKellan and Vivian Merchant. Mind you, Vivian said she would only be in it on condition she could play her part as a deaf mute.

Speaker 212:59

Because the diet

Sinead Cusack13:00

Because the dialogue was so appalling.

Presenter13:01

The

Sinead Cusack13:04

Contradictor.

Presenter13:05

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack13:06

So she played as a deaf mute and was brilliant.

Sinead Cusack13:08

Um

Sinead Cusack13:09

and Michael Yorke and all sorts of wonderful people. No, I played Edith.

Sinead Cusack13:13

who was the handmaiden to the queen. And I had eleven lines when I started.

Sinead Cusack13:19

But when the film came out I had one line

Sinead Cusack13:23

which was addressed to David Hemmings.

Sinead Cusack13:25

and went something like this.

Sinead Cusack13:27

This is not the Bible as we were taught it.

Sinead Cusack13:30

And the immortal reply from David Hemmings' outfit was Such clever answers from a pair of tits.

Presenter13:36

It's appalling dialogue.

Sinead Cusack13:38

Yeah.

Presenter13:40

That's true.

Sinead Cusack13:42

Did you

Presenter13:42

Oh, by the way, take a degree.

Sinead Cusack13:44

I left two months before my finals.

Presenter13:46

Oh, what a pity

Sinead Cusack13:47

I suppose it is a pity I've never regretted it at all. I had a row about Paradise Lost.

Presenter13:52

Whose side were you on?

Sinead Cusack13:53

Oh, the devil is definitely.

Presenter13:56

When did you decide to come to London, then?

Sinead Cusack13:58

Yes, it was about that time.

Sinead Cusack14:00

On my earnings on Alfred the Great, I earned sixty pounds a week on Alfred the Great. And um

Presenter14:04

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack14:05

on those what I call my immoral earnings on Alfred the Great.

Sinead Cusack14:08

I was able to afford to come over here.

Presenter14:10

Well, that seems a point to break off your third record. What shall that be?

Sinead Cusack14:14

My third record is the Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet.

Presenter14:18

Yes.

Sinead Cusack14:18

Yes. And it's the rather jolly bit where the guests come in.

Presenter15:23

An excerpt from Prokofiev's ballet music, Romeo and Juliet, The Arrival of the Guests, played by the London Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Andrei Previn. Why do you choose that? Is dancing important to you?

Sinead Cusack15:35

No, dancing is not important to me. I I've never been a

Sinead Cusack15:39

A great tempallegoer.

Sinead Cusack15:41

I love that.

Sinead Cusack15:43

particular Bally because it's so theatrical and so dramatic, and also because I've played Juliet, and it will remind me of um how bad how badly I played Juliet.

Presenter15:54

Let's go back to your arrival in this country. You began to do some films.

Sinead Cusack15:59

Very early on, which in a way was a pity because I had always wanted my ambition was to be a theatre actress.

Presenter16:05

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack16:05

And to play the classics. That's primarily why I came to England.

Presenter16:08

What was the first film you did?

Sinead Cusack16:10

The first film that I did in this country was

Sinead Cusack16:13

David Copperfield. It was a an American version, with Robin Phillips playing David, and um a host of the Sirs in it, Sir Michael, Redgrave, and Sir Lawrence and Richard Attenborough, and a lot of English greats were in it.

Sinead Cusack16:31

And I played Little Emily.

Presenter16:33

Oh, that's a nice.

Sinead Cusack16:33

It was a nice start. It was a lovely start. And my father was in it too. He played Bacchus. Great.

Sinead Cusack16:38

And then I went on to do um

Sinead Cusack16:40

Film with Peter Sellers, starring opposite Peter in a film called Hoffman.

Presenter16:45

You are doing very, very well.

Sinead Cusack16:47

By other people's lights I was doing extremely well by my own lights I wasn't doing at all well.

Sinead Cusack16:51

Because I always felt that, um

Sinead Cusack16:54

It was primarily my appearance.

Sinead Cusack16:58

got me these parts rather than because I had a round face and blue eyes and blonde hair and very easy to cast.

Presenter17:04

As an engineer.

Sinead Cusack17:04

as an ingenue.

Presenter17:05

Yes, you went on to play some Dolly Bird, didn't you?

Sinead Cusack17:07

I did quite a few of those. I mean, some of my film and television work I'm very, very proud of indeed. But it was almost an aberration. I I had my sight set so firmly on the stage.

Presenter17:18

You said just now you did play Juliet quite early on in your career.

Sinead Cusack17:22

Yes, I did yes, I did, at the Shaw Theatre.

Sinead Cusack17:25

But in those days when I was playing Shakespeare, I was so frightened by Shakespeare he intimidated me a great deal.

Sinead Cusack17:32

I didn't believe you were allowed to smile when you spoke Shakespeare, or pause, or laugh. I mean, that would have been the ultimate crime to laugh.

Presenter17:38

Yeah, I'll turn it on.

Sinead Cusack17:40

So my Juliet was very joyless indeed, and it's very necessary for Juliet to be full of joy.

Sinead Cusack17:47

So she wasn't too good. She wasn't too good.

Presenter17:49

A major part of your career to date has been with the Royal Shakespeare Company. What was the first role you played for them?

Sinead Cusack17:49

Uh

Sinead Cusack17:53

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack17:55

Well, the first role you're reminding me of all my failures, Roy. My first role with them was a takeover. I took over from Judy Dench in a production called London Assurance by Bussico.

Presenter18:06

Uh

Speaker 318:06

Uh

Speaker 218:06

Oh yeah.

Sinead Cusack18:07

And uh it's a delightful play, and I hadn't seen Judy playing it,'cause I thought it would be wiser not to see her.

Sinead Cusack18:16

Because she's consummate actress. I mean, she's great, great act.

Sinead Cusack18:20

But I read the play and I talked to the director and I thought, Oh, yes, I can play this and um I I tried to follow Judy in.

Sinead Cusack18:27

An impossible task. I mean, Judy, not only is she a great actress, but she's also

Sinead Cusack18:32

quite idiosyncratic as a comedy actress.

Sinead Cusack18:35

and wonderful bits of creative business that she had evolved with the rest of the cast.

Sinead Cusack18:41

And I had none of that, nor the experience too.

Sinead Cusack18:45

Developers.

Presenter18:46

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack18:46

And so I didn't do too well there. And the Royal Regional.

Presenter18:49

So the RSC didn't ask you to stay?

Sinead Cusack18:51

Yeah.

Presenter18:51

Not that time.

Sinead Cusack18:52

No.

Presenter18:53

You did some more Shakespeare. You you played Desdemona, in Othello, at Ludlow Castle. That must have been a joy. It's such a gorgeous play.

Sinead Cusack19:01

Oh, it was a wonderful experience. It was wonderful.

Sinead Cusack19:04

Mainly because of the the place itself, because of the castle and because of the countryside round.

Presenter19:09

Open air, of course. Did it rain?

Sinead Cusack19:11

Well, yes, I had one unfortunate experience. Not many people know that Desdemona dies twenty minutes before the end of the play.

Sinead Cusack19:21

Now, if you're in the open air, you have to lie I was lying on a cold stone slab, dressed in a little silk shift.

Sinead Cusack19:28

and no coverlet on top. Anyway, I died painfully in front of the Mayor of Ludlow.

Sinead Cusack19:35

And a large audience.

Sinead Cusack19:38

And it started to rain, and it rained for those twenty minutes, and I had to remain dead.

Sinead Cusack19:43

And so when I stood up to take the curtain call, as you can imagine, the little silk shift was showing every single contour of what was beneath.

Presenter19:51

Ha ha ha ha.

Sinead Cusack19:52

I think the mayor was delighted.

Presenter19:53

I'm sure he won't.

Presenter19:56

Back to the Royal Shakespeare, after one or two televisions and bits and pieces. Was there a new production for you?

Sinead Cusack20:04

No, I was once again a takeover.

Sinead Cusack20:08

At that time they were doing a production of wild oats.

Sinead Cusack20:12

And um

Sinead Cusack20:13

I had seen Wild Oats about seven times, because Jeremy, Irons, my now husband, was in it. I also had a few friends in it, Norman Rodway and Alan Howard, and when Lisa Harrow decided to leave

Sinead Cusack20:27

The production.

Sinead Cusack20:28

They were looking for somebody to take over, and Alan and Norman and Jeremy.

Sinead Cusack20:34

said to the director, You might as well audition Chinelle. She's seen it seven times, so there'll be very little rehearsal involved if we get her in. So Clifford Williams saw me, auditioned me, and gave me the part. I said about four lines, I think. He said, Yes, you can play it.

Sinead Cusack20:48

And um as a result of that slightly better performance in Wild Oats, my career with the RSC really started.

Presenter20:56

What was the first part that they asked you to create in a new production?

Sinead Cusack21:00

The first part was a gawky play called Children of the Sun.

Sinead Cusack21:04

Which again I did with Alan Howard and Norman Rodbay, directed by Terry Hans. That was my first.

Presenter21:10

I don't remember that one. What was that about?

Sinead Cusack21:13

I play this rather mad schizophrenic creature who foresaw what was going to happen in Russia, and she was always having nervous breakdowns and things. It was a lovely play, but it didn't quite come off for some reason.

Presenter21:26

Sounds a part to get your teeth in.

Sinead Cusack21:27

It did, yes.

Presenter21:30

And your first Shakespeare role?

Sinead Cusack21:31

That year I played Isabella in Measure for Measure, but that again was a takeover.

Presenter21:36

Yes.

Sinead Cusack21:36

I played the London End, somebody else had played it in Stratford.

Sinead Cusack21:39

But my first Shakespeare that I created myself was, I think, Celia in As You Like It. I think.

Presenter21:47

Right. Well that's got you launched with the R S C. Record number four.

Sinead Cusack21:51

Record number four is Debussy, a sonata for flute, viola and harp.

Presenter21:56

What does this mean to you? Why'd you choose this?

Sinead Cusack21:57

Well, the reason i it's a silly reason, really. I adore the flute, mainly because my sister plays it and I love hearing it. And she lived with us for about two years, and I used to hear her endlessly practising the flute. And so I knew I had to have some flute music somewhere, and I love this piece.

Presenter23:14

An excerpt from Debussy's Sonata for flute, viola, and harp, played by members of the Malos Ensemble.

Presenter23:20

So, four years ago, joining the RSC sort of permanently, lots of good parts at Stratford and in London.

Sinead Cusack23:27

Wonderful parts. Wonderful parts. I think Celia might have been my favourite.

Presenter23:30

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack23:33

Because Celia was before I had to take on responsibility, really.

Sinead Cusack23:37

'Cause when you start playing the big leading parts, you actually carry a huge burden of responsibility. With Celia, all I had to do was sit in the background and giggle.

Presenter23:40

Similarly

Sinead Cusack23:46

Wonderful. And that's when I really discovered that you could laugh and enjoy yourself playing Shakespeare, and that he actually encouraged you to do that.

Presenter23:55

Of course he was a working actor.

Sinead Cusack23:57

Indeed he knew all about it.

Presenter23:59

And then Lady Anne, of course, in in Richard the Third.

Sinead Cusack24:02

Yes, that impossible scene over the casket. It is really an impossible scene to be seduced over the casket of your

Presenter24:08

It does happen very quickly, doesn't it?

Sinead Cusack24:10

It doesn't it's very fast.

Presenter24:12

And you had a great romp in the maid's tragedy.

Sinead Cusack24:14

Oh, that was wonderful. I couldn't believe my luck when Barry Kyle, the director.

Sinead Cusack24:19

I at that time had been asked to go up to Stratford to play Celia, and at the time nothing else was on offer. They said we'll find you other parts and I said well I can't really go up just for Celia.

Sinead Cusack24:28

And then Barry rang me and said, Um, Well, Chanel, I found you this play. It's a bit of a tough read, um but

Sinead Cusack24:36

you know, persist because it's a good play. I found it the most wonderful read,'cause the girl, the central character, Evadne, is I mean, she's wicked, she's outrageous, and and then she has her her redemption.

Sinead Cusack24:52

She kills the king. That's how she redeems herself. It was wonderful.

Presenter24:54

She redeems herself.

Presenter24:56

Yeah.

Presenter24:58

Getting off at a tangent, are you superstitious in the theatre?

Sinead Cusack25:01

I'm superstitious about certain things, yes. I don't like the Scottish play Macbeth being mentioned in the dressing room.

Sinead Cusack25:09

And it is strange, you know, this year at Stratford there was a production of Macbeth.

Sinead Cusack25:14

And indeed there were no problems within the production itself.

Sinead Cusack25:19

But our year was blighted by quite a few deaths.

Sinead Cusack25:24

and accidents and things, not within the Macbeth Company itself.

Sinead Cusack25:29

But within others of the company. Strange, strange. It it does give me the heebie cheeby set.

Presenter25:36

Let's have your next record.

Sinead Cusack25:37

My next record is called Bundle of Sorrow, Bundle of Joy, and it's sung by Kate and Anna McGarrigal.

Sinead Cusack25:44

And it's for Sam, my son, who is a bundle of sorrow and a bundle of joy. He's now four and a half, but I remember when he was a bundle.

Sinead Cusack25:52

The dogs whine out in the woods, The geese laugh taken flight, And the daybars of the birds give way to coyotes in the night

Sinead Cusack26:11

I love

Presenter26:13

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack26:13

Ah

Presenter26:15

Kidnot

Speaker 226:15

My baby, my boy, bundle of sorrow, bundle of joy

Presenter26:22

Bundle of Sorrow, Bundle of Joy by Kate and Anna McGarrigal.

Presenter26:27

She now, you've arrived in London recently from Stratford to play two parts which are in the repertoire for quite a long run at the barbecue.

Sinead Cusack26:35

Yes, to play Kate in the Shrew And Beatrice in Much Ado. And and assorted tiny parts in Pyrgint.

Presenter26:45

Or Catherine, of course, in in The Taming of the Shrew, a lovely rombustuous part for him.

Presenter26:50

in which you're pushed into a pool.

Sinead Cusack26:52

Indeed, every night.

Presenter26:54

Yes, you do go in head first.

Sinead Cusack26:56

I do, yes. My my co star, Alan Armstrong, goes in back first.

Sinead Cusack27:00

I have to line em up very carefully,'cause it's a tiny little pool.

Presenter27:04

Mm-hmm.

Sinead Cusack27:04

It's a triangular pool.

Presenter27:06

Is that new for London, or did you do that at Stratford?

Sinead Cusack27:08

We did do it at Stratford, but we had a rectangular pool in Stratford and there was about two foot leeway, but here I think there's about two inches leeway, and it's not padded.

Presenter27:11

I think it's a good idea.

Presenter27:18

So you've got to be careful where you'll push him.

Sinead Cusack27:19

Very careful where I push him.

Presenter27:22

and Beatrice and much ado about nothing.

Sinead Cusack27:24

Hmm.

Presenter27:25

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack27:26

Wonderful.

Presenter27:27

I haven't seen that yet.

Presenter27:29

And what about Peagint? Is that a new production?

Sinead Cusack27:31

Oh no no no, it's a production from Stratford, but it's an adaptation, I suppose you'd call it, by David Rodkin.

Sinead Cusack27:37

And I think it's splendid. And it has Derek Jacobi in the leading role. And uh I love it. And also again, I have that very nice, comfortable feeling of not carrying too much responsibility, so I enjoy it enormously. Whereas going out every night with Kate particularly

Sinead Cusack27:56

I find Kate very difficult to play.

Sinead Cusack27:58

And uh and Beatrice too.

Sinead Cusack28:01

They both require a lot of

Sinead Cusack28:03

A lot of effort.

Presenter28:05

What parts would you like to do next?

Sinead Cusack28:08

I'm very keen to play Richard the Third, but I don't think anyone's gonna let me.

Presenter28:12

Well, you played Charles I, yes.

Sinead Cusack28:15

Yeah.

Presenter28:16

Same performance, isn't it?

Sinead Cusack28:17

Isn't it?

Sinead Cusack28:19

Um no, I I don't plan in that way. I really don't. I mean the the surprise of being asked to play Beatrice and then being asked to play Kate. I never imagined anyone thinking of me for either of those two parts. I'd never thought of myself as a comedian.

Sinead Cusack28:35

And so the joy of having those two land on my plate was phenomenal. So I'm not going to plan, I'm just going to hope. But I think it's possible that I should go into the

Sinead Cusack28:45

big bad world of outside the Royal Shakespeare Company, in other words.

Presenter28:48

How long have you been with the company?

Sinead Cusack28:49

Well, I've been with him this particular stint about five years now.

Sinead Cusack28:54

And it's a long time.

Sinead Cusack28:56

It's just I'm so happy there, and I have such a range of parts to play.

Presenter28:59

but is a little too warm and comfortable.

Sinead Cusack29:01

Well, it's it's not warm and comfortable'cause you have to struggle very hard, um and you have to work very, very hard.

Sinead Cusack29:08

But, uh, I don't know, I think people would just get tired of me in there at the RSC, you know. They've seen a lot of me in the last five years, and I think maybe they're bored to tears by now.

Presenter29:16

Uh

Presenter29:17

I doubt it. But you're going to have a go in the commercial theatre for a bit.

Sinead Cusack29:20

Well, whether it's theatre or television or film, I don't know, but I think maybe the time has come where I have to explore other media a bit.

Presenter29:26

All right.

Presenter29:27

Record number six.

Sinead Cusack29:28

Record number six is The Swan by Saintson, and I've chosen that because uh I have a brother who plays the cello and a brother in law who plays the cello, and I love the instrument, and I think this is a very beautiful piece.

Presenter30:42

The Swan from the Carnival of the Animals by Saint Sans Jacqueline Dupruis with Auchen Ellis playing the harp.

Presenter30:51

No, she knowed you were at the Albury Theatre in Saint Martin's Lane in London Assurance, and the stage door of the Albury is immediately opposite the stage door of Wyndham's Theatre, which is in Charing Cross Road, and that's how you met mister Jeremy Irons. Is that right? That's right.

Sinead Cusack31:05

In fact, they have one stage doorkeeper between the two theatres.

Presenter31:09

But what a splendid economy.

Sinead Cusack31:10

Yeah.

Presenter31:11

He's nipping backwards and forwards across the court.

Sinead Cusack31:14

Yes, that's how I I met. I didn't go to see Godspell, but I had a great friend called Elizabeth Spriggs in London Assurance with me, and her birthday coincided with Jeremy's birthday.

Sinead Cusack31:26

and they were friends, and they gave a dinner party together.

Sinead Cusack31:31

and Jeremy was there, and I was invited by Elizabeth.

Sinead Cusack31:36

And that's how we met.

Presenter31:37

So of course not.

Sinead Cusack31:38

It was very romantic.

Presenter31:39

Now you're misses Irons, and there's a mister Irons, Junior, that's Sam you were talking about.

Sinead Cusack31:44

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Presenter31:45

Have you acted together?

Sinead Cusack31:46

Jeremy and I

Presenter31:47

Yes.

Sinead Cusack31:48

Yes, in Wild Oats we work together. Yes.

Sinead Cusack31:52

There was a rather nasty experience that Jeremy had during Wild Oats, because um we didn't have much of a scene to we had a tiny little scene together.

Sinead Cusack32:00

during which he upstated me all the time, if I remember. But I gave him a rather nasty shock when he was just about to go on for a very important scene with Allan Howard, and just as he was about to go on I whispered in his ear, I am with child, Jeremy, and he had to go on and play the scene.

Presenter32:18

What a dirty trick

Sinead Cusack32:20

Was Daddy?

Presenter32:22

What are you doing now?

Sinead Cusack32:23

He's now doing a film in Paris, Proust's à la Recherche du Tomberdu. They've done a screenplay of I think about one and a half volumes, Swan in Love, and he's playing it in French. Good for him. Which I think is remarkably brave since he doesn't speak the language very well.

Presenter32:34

Uh

Sinead Cusack32:41

Record number seven.

Sinead Cusack32:43

Well, now record number seven I'm almost ashamed to have asked for, because it is sheer indulgence. All my life I have been told by my family and by my friends that I can't sing a note and indeed I can't. I am the despair of any musical director who has ever worked with me.

Sinead Cusack33:02

But while we were at Stratford a couple of years back we did a pantomime called the Swan Down Gloves.

Sinead Cusack33:08

And in it I was asked to play the character of Lady Alice Cornflower, who's the sex kitten.

Presenter33:15

I'd love to have seen that name.

Sinead Cusack33:16

and I had a number to sing.

Sinead Cusack33:19

which was called demure, but dangerous.

Sinead Cusack33:22

and it has been immortalized on record.

Sinead Cusack33:25

And I just want I just once want to hear my own voice coming over the radio and be proud. But mind you, I ha I have to admit that I do think a lot of knobs were twiddled in order to make me sound as good as I do on this record, because I don't normally. The man who wrote the music, Nigel Hess, was also conducting the band when we first did it.

Sinead Cusack33:44

And he said that on the first night of the pantomime, he said it was quite an extraordinary phenomenon. I managed to sing the whole number three notes below the right note, and I sustained it all the way through the number, and the band didn't know whether to go down or stay. It was horrible. Anyway, this is it's it's called Demure But Dangerous.

Presenter34:06

Can't wait to hear this.

Presenter34:07

In insuring a life

Sinead Cusack34:09

For two new in together the whole

Speaker 334:14

Uh

Sinead Cusack34:14

My true

Speaker 334:15

Uh

Sinead Cusack34:16

Make and sweet Music

Speaker 334:17

And dodging

Sinead Cusack34:18

The shoes will be pussy

Speaker 234:21

It is by moonlight just singing in the blues.

Speaker 234:27

So

Speaker 334:27

In the blue.

Speaker 334:31

Just me.

Presenter34:33

Yeah.

Speaker 334:34

Um

Presenter34:38

It's quite funny. I enjoyed that. The Sex Kittens song from The Swan Darn Gloves.

Presenter34:43

and the gentleman involved was mister Jonathan Hyde.

Sinead Cusack34:46

Mm-hmm.

Presenter34:47

How well could you look after yourself on a desert island?

Sinead Cusack34:50

I don't know probably not very well.

Sinead Cusack34:53

I'm I'm not very practical.

Presenter34:54

You're not a a capable woman.

Sinead Cusack34:56

No, I'm not. I think I'm fairly irresponsible and incapable.

Presenter34:59

Could you build a shelter? Have you got any ideas about how you set about that?

Sinead Cusack35:02

I would certainly attempt that. Oh yes, surely, coming from Ireland, I must be able to build a wooden heart. I mean, surely I'll be able to do that.

Presenter35:10

Can you cook?

Sinead Cusack35:10

Oh, I can cook.

Presenter35:11

Yes. Well, that's that's something. Cook what? I mean, ever done any fishing?

Sinead Cusack35:16

No, I've never liked fishing. I don't like seeing the poor little fish at the end of the hook, but I think I'd have to get over my distaste. No, I'd be hopeless, Castaway. I'd be hopeless.

Presenter35:17

Get her.

Presenter35:24

You wouldn't try to escape.

Sinead Cusack35:25

Oh, I would. I think I'd light fires and and signal. What I thought I'd occupy myself doing for the first few months is learning all the Shakespearean parts that I've ever wanted to play. Parts like Richard the Third and Hamlet and Iago, and then I'd play them to an appreciative audience, Seagulls, and I would enjoy myself enormously for a few months doing that.

Presenter35:36

Hamlet and

Presenter35:45

What's record number eight?

Sinead Cusack35:46

Um record number eight is the Foray Requiem and it's the PA Yezu.

Speaker 236:13

Yeah.

Presenter36:53

The Pa is you from the Foray Requiem.

Presenter36:56

Victoria at Los Angeles in a performance conducted by André Critas.

Presenter37:01

Genair, if you could take just one disc out of your eight, which would it be?

Sinead Cusack37:06

I think I'd take the Brooke violin concerto.

Presenter37:09

And you are allowed one luxury, one object of no practical use whatever.

Sinead Cusack37:14

Well

Sinead Cusack37:15

I'm also allowed a book, aren't I?

Presenter37:16

Yes, you are.

Sinead Cusack37:18

Well, my luxury is associated with my book.

Sinead Cusack37:21

So shall I mention my book first?

Presenter37:23

Whichever you like. You've got the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Sinead Cusack37:26

Yes. So what I thought I'd take as my book

Sinead Cusack37:31

Were the collected works I'm not sure if they've been collected yet but the collected works of John Le Carrey because I thought with all those years, months, whatever, on my island, I could finally unravel all those plots that I adore. Because I'm a I'm a devotee of the thriller genre.

Presenter37:49

I'm not sure about the complete collected works, but we'll bind as many together as we possibly can.

Sinead Cusack37:55

Lovely. That will suit fine. And my luxury would be an endless supply of paper.

Sinead Cusack38:01

And pens? I might love pens. Yes, yes. Writing materials. Writing materials. That's what I want. An endless supply of writing materials. And then I would write the great thriller.

Presenter38:02

And

Presenter38:03

Writing materials.

Sinead Cusack38:11

That's my plan.

Presenter38:11

My plan. Good, have you got some ideas?

Sinead Cusack38:13

No, but inspiration will strike on my island, I don't doubt.

Presenter38:17

I hope so. And thank you, Shinerd Kusek, for letting us hear your choice of Desert Island discs.

Sinead Cusack38:23

Thank you.

Presenter38:24

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 238:50

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.