Sir Alan King-Hamilton

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 30:05

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1983.

Speaker 30:11

And the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

Our castaway this week is His Honor Judge Alan King Hamilton, QC.

Presenter0:35

As an old bailey judge for nearly sixteen years, he presided over many celebrated cases.

Presenter0:41

and acquired a reputation for toughness.

Presenter0:43

Now you ought to be a solitary castaway. In many ways I suppose a judge's is a solitary life. Very much so. Uh when he's on the bench, at any rate.

Presenter0:53

At the Old Bailey we were more fortunate than in most courts, because we all met at lunch time.

Speaker 40:58

Yeah.

Presenter0:59

and could discuss our various problems and later on over a cup of tea.

Presenter1:04

But once you're on the bench, you're on your own. And in recess, I presume. You're just sitting in your room. That's right.

Presenter1:11

Is music an interest of yours? Very much so. I can't play anything. And I I I wouldn't dream of trying to sing. I've no idea of voice control in that sense.

Presenter1:21

But I'm very fond of music.

Presenter1:24

We start with Gilbert and Sullivan. My first Gilbert and Sullivan opera was uh in fact Iolanthe.

Presenter1:32

It represents the days when Sir Henry Lytton and Bertha Lewis were at the peak of their performances.

Presenter1:39

And I've been a fan ever since, and could recite all the Pattersongs if you asked me to, some time ago, not now.

Presenter1:46

But I've chosen, as I want to confine it to one, I'm rashing myself to one, because although I'm a fan of Gilbert and Zolivan, not to the exclusion of all other music, I've chosen at the end of Act One of The Omen of the God.

Speaker 42:03

My Lord, my Lord, I know not how to tell the news I bear. I and my comrade saw the prisoner stand.

Speaker 42:28

As is the follow the prisoner we sought his saddle duty found the dumb awaiting someone when a prisoner told me found We hunted high We hunted fear The man we sought with anxious care had managed into empty air The man we sought with anxious care had managed into empty air

Presenter2:40

Yeah.

Presenter2:42

God is the welcome destination.

Speaker 42:48

Presents report the principal is 47 duty by the double ratings of the breadth of prisoner, dropping one in hundred five, in hundreds, and the lab is not the next

Presenter3:01

The closing passage of Act One of Gilbert and Sullivan's The Yeoman of the Guard, the Deulichard Opera Company, and the conductor, Sir Malcolm Sargent.

Presenter3:11

You're a Londoner, are you not? Yes. In the sense that I was born in London. I don't live in London now.

Presenter3:16

Were you one of a large family? Three sisters and myself.

Presenter3:21

And you were sent to be educated in France as a youngster, I believe? No, not quite. I was uh educated in London and at Bishop Storeford Grammar School. I went to France on a holiday with my French governess and two sisters and a cousin.

Presenter3:37

and we were caught there at the beginning of World War One.

Presenter3:40

And my father had some difficulty in coming to rescue us. You come from a legal family? Yes, my father was a solicitor.

Presenter3:48

Was the idea that you should follow into law your father's or yours? My father's. And to be an advocate rather than a solicitor. Well, that was his idea. I didn't know which. I hadn't enough knowledge or experience. But he was very shrewd and, I think, realised that I wouldn't have been much good as a solicitor. I don't think I had the patience, and he probably saw that. And he suggested I went to the bar, and when I realised what was involved, I was all for it. I agreed. What had you been good at at Bishop Stortford Grammar School? Latin, French?

Presenter4:24

And English, I think. And then you went off to read law at Trinity Hall, Cambridge. Yes. Did you row? I wanted to row, but I wasn't heavy enough.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton4:30

Uh

Presenter4:33

So I thought a cock's nose too heavy.

Presenter4:36

So uh I played soccer and cricket and hockey. I did row in a farcical venture. We uh in fact I started it, the Soccer Club against the Rugger Club.

Presenter4:49

the rules being that no member of the crew must ever have rowed in an eight before, except in the same race may be the previous year but we did have a proper cocks each, to avoid colliding with each other.

Presenter5:00

And that was great fun. The only coaching we had was from the boathouse down to Grassy Corner, where with great difficulty we turned round and then rode side by side. And how did you do? The first year we won, I was two.

Presenter5:14

The second year I was stroke, and I regret to say we lost. I'm sorry.

Presenter5:18

What's your second record?

Sir Alan King-Hamilton5:18

What does

Presenter5:19

I first went to a promenade concert as long ago as a time when Sir Henry Wood was conducting in the old Queen's Hall.

Presenter5:29

It was the last night of the proms of that year in about nineteen thirty, and it was terribly hot, and I've never forgotten standing all the time in that great heat.

Presenter5:38

But Mara Hess played the Grieg Pianofort Concerto. I fell in love with it then and have been in love with it ever since, and I would like to hear that piece.

Presenter5:49

Played this time by Clifford Curzon, because I understand you haven't got a recording, unfortunately Mari has. Alas, we couldn't find one. But here is Sir Clifford.

Presenter6:58

Part of the second movement of the Greek piano concerto, Clifford Curzon was the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Euvin Fellstadt.

Presenter7:07

Now, very sensibly, as one who would have to think on his feet, you joined the Cambridge Union. In fact, you became President. I did. Any fellow members we would know? Yes, um

Presenter7:18

Lord Carradon, in those days HM Foote,

Presenter7:22

He went to America with me on a debating tour.

Presenter7:25

Lord Devlin he preceded me. I was secretary when he was President. Pat Devlin in those days. Selwyn Lloyd.

Presenter7:32

was my Vice President. He, as you know, became Lord Selwyn Lloyd, Foreign Secretary.

Presenter7:38

Chancellor of the Exchequer

Presenter7:41

Speaker of the House of Commons.

Presenter7:42

I was sandwiched between Pat Devlin and Sylvan Lloyd. It was an inverse sandwich. I was the uninteresting piece of bread with the interesting bits of material on both sides. This group of union members that you went with on the debating tour in the United States, this was to American universities, of course. And one Canadian.

Presenter8:00

Yes. McGill. Any stories arising therefrom from that tour?

Sir Alan King-Hamilton8:01

McGill

Presenter8:04

Oh, a great many, uh

Presenter8:07

In some university, I forget which one, in the Middle West. It was in the days when uh there wasn't a very big liberal movement in the Middle West.

Presenter8:19

and we were staying one night in the house of the debate coach, as they used to be called.

Presenter8:26

And we got talking, and he gradually took down his back hair and opened his heart to us. And he said that there was one book that he loved to read, but he dare not expose it on the shelves of his room.

Presenter8:40

and we were agog to know what on earth that could be, and he went up and took out two or three books, and from behind he withdrew the Rubaiyat of Omar Kahim.

Presenter8:51

Which he wasn't allowed to have on the campus. It was quite remarkable.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton8:51

French.

Presenter8:55

We also met Mackenzie King in Toronto, drank cocoa with him at two o'clock in the morning. That was interesting.

Presenter9:02

So you graduated in law. You worked for a while in a solicitor's office. Now that normally is frowned on, I believe, for a a future barrister. No, not frowned on, so long as you purge yourself of the taint of having been in a solicitor's office. And I had to wait over a year to purge myself of that taint. It was my father's idea to get to know something of their side of the profession, which was extremely useful and very wise. And I learnt a lot. And then what? Pupillage? Yes. Had you eaten your dinners before pupillage, or does that happen at the same time? No, I had eaten them before and possibly the last few during pupillage. One has to eat

Presenter9:42

So many dinners in order to keep term. If you're not at a university, it used to be six d dinners in order to keep a term. If you are at a university, because you were there and had to come up to London, they reduced it to three dinners a term. And very useful it was, because at dinner you met barristers and senior students, you dined in a mess of four, and in the conversation you got to know the traditions of the inn, the traditions of the profession, and the most topical legal arguments that were going on. One learnt a lot. It has useful purposes. And on the whole, remarkably good dinners. In those days, very. And very, very cheap, with free beer thrown in in those days. And then you were called to the bar. Yes, by the Middle Temple. Right.

Presenter10:29

At which point?

Presenter10:30

Let's have your third record.

Presenter10:32

Well, I've had great difficulty in deciding between two pieces from Madam Butterfly. One is One Fine Day, and the other is The Humming Chorus. I like both.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton10:44

I

Presenter10:46

Well, I can sort that difficulty out for you because they're both on the same record, on different sites. Oh, how fortunate, because what could be better than after one fine day's hunting to listen to the soothing music of uh the humming chorus. Oh, which one would you like to hear now of the two? I think One Fine Day, sung by Vittoria Los Los Angeles.

Presenter12:06

One fine day from Puccine's Madam Butterfly sung by Victoria de Los Angeles.

Presenter12:12

So they were a young barrister looking for briefs. What was your first one, Doug?

Presenter12:18

It was the day after I was called to the bar.

Presenter12:21

It was to go to a magistrate's court,

Presenter12:24

I cannot remember now what the what the trouble was, but I do remember that my opponent was a barrister who had won the VC in World War One.

Presenter12:33

and looking out of the corner of my eye to see what his name was, it was Brett

Presenter12:39

Cloutman, V C. In my nervousness I thought it was K C and I nearly swooned.

Presenter12:45

Now of course the Second War broke out before you had got very far in your career.

Presenter12:51

You took a temporary job as a press censor. Now that sounds fascinating. It was.

Presenter12:58

I mean, what did it mean? Could you telephone the Daily Express and tell them to change their front paging?

Presenter13:04

No, it didn't work quite like that. Uh one worked all round the clock uh in shifts if you were in that section as I was uh when I began.

Presenter13:14

But there were defence notices, D notices, which we all had.

Presenter13:19

Any newspaper which had anything doubtful sent it in to be censored. If he had no doubt about it, he didn't trouble. He sent it in to us, and there was at large about twenty or thirty of us, working all round the clock.

Presenter13:32

A piece would be put in front of us, and if it was all right, we passed it, stamped it if it wasn't, we altered it as we thought fit, with the blue pencil, the famous blue pencil, making suggested alterations.

Presenter13:44

But I wasn't in that section long. I eventually went to Cables, that's foreign press cables.

Presenter13:49

And then to um

Presenter13:52

postal section, which didn't work all round the clock, that was only press material going out by post. And I had about forty ladies, multilingual ladies, dealing with all this foreign press material going out. And then I eventually left that and uh

Presenter14:08

Joined the Royal Air Force. You joined the Royal Air Force on the intelligence side, which must have produced some stories for you.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton14:12

Uh

Presenter14:16

Are there any that you can tell us?

Presenter14:20

and I joined up in September thirty eight at the time of Munich.

Presenter14:24

I I was so disgusted with what happened about the checks.

Presenter14:28

And I was told to wait, and of course I waited, and in the beginning of thirty-nine th the war, uh nobody wanted me.

Presenter14:34

And I was waited and waited, and then I was told, as I had temporarily joined the civil service, that they couldn't accept me in the army any more, which I thought was so much rubbish that in a huff I went into the Royal Air Force Department in the ministry, and they took me straight away.

Presenter14:50

and within a week I was in uniform uh in their intelligence department.

Presenter14:54

Uh well, there was a lot of excitement. But you see, we knew everything that was going on in the war from the air point of view, and also the military and the naval, because they had naval advisers and air advisers, military advisers, foreign advisers and economic warfare department.

Presenter15:10

And we were all seeing each other every day and working together frequently on joint matters, and one knew what was going on. It was very, very exciting. You joined a North Sea convoy at one point. Yes, I did. That was uh j just taking leave on a on a sort of holiday, really to get a breath of fresh air.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton15:24

Pit it again.

Presenter15:27

As a bannister, were you mixed up in courts-martial work? Only after the war I did, I think, three courts-martial. One in Hamburg, and it did me good to see Hamburg flat.

Presenter15:38

Acres and acres and acres of rubble, and having come from London and been in London in all our air raids, it did me good a little bit. I shouldn't say it perhaps, but it was a little satisfying, being human.

Presenter15:50

To see it, um I defended a guardsman who with a guards officer had been charged with um obtaining uh

Presenter15:58

Well, armed robbery, really. They were armed and they got um goods from Germans who were dealing in the black market.

Presenter16:06

That was a bit of interesting. Then I had two over here. Two in this country. Three, in fact.

Presenter16:11

And then

Presenter16:12

The war over, you demobilize, you left the Royal Air Force and back to your chambers, back to the bar.

Presenter16:18

So, record number four. Vidos Tocata.

Presenter16:22

I've chosen it

Presenter16:24

For two reasons. One, because it thrills me. I think it's most exciting music.

Presenter16:28

And uh

Presenter16:30

It was played at the wedding of um one of my daughters, and it'll help to remind me of that.

Presenter17:37

The Toccata from Vidor's Fifth Symphony, Marie Claire Allain, at the Great Organ of Orléans Cathedral.

Presenter17:45

I presume a young barrister judge turns his hand to all sorts of cases. Yes.

Presenter17:51

If he's on the common law side. He then decides whether he's going to specialise in criminal law or civil law. Yes, but there's no clear demarcation. Some only do criminal, but there are many, particularly those who go on circuit, who do both. Those were the days, of course, of capital punishment. You had to be very sure that your line of attack was accurate when you could send a man to his death. Yes, indeed.

Presenter18:16

You took silk and became a queen's counsel. This isn't always a good idea for a young barrister, is it? It's a great risk.

Presenter18:23

It's an awful problem to know whether to apply for it or not. You don't always get it.

Presenter18:29

I got it the first time uh not through any ability of mine, just because there happened to be a shortage of silks on the Oxford circuit at that time, and there was, so to speak, a vacancy, and uh

Presenter18:41

I applied at the right time.

Presenter18:43

But it was an awful risk and I was very worried about it because you lose

Presenter18:47

All your junior work, and it's really like starting up again.

Presenter18:50

You became a recorder successively in in a number of towns. These are are our part time posts, are they? Yes, they don't exist any more in that sense. It was in the old days of quarter sessions.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton18:56

Yeah.

Presenter19:01

City and Borough Court of Sessions and County Court of Sessions.

Presenter19:04

At the city and borough quarter sessions they were presided over by a recorder, who had to be a barrister of I think it was at least five years' standing.

Presenter19:14

And at county court of sessions he was called a chairman or deputy chairman, again of five years' standing but as a rule it was only a silk Queen's Counsel who got it sometimes junior, but not often.

Presenter19:27

It must be difficult to plan life, because a trial can last a long, long time, or it can be over in a day or two, and you don't really know, I presume, when you'll start. When you're sitting as a recorder, do you mean? Well, as a barrister. Oh, you you've got a rough idea.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton19:38

Well, as a battery.

Presenter19:41

But sometimes it takes a certain course which takes you by surprise, and then it's either much shorter than you anticipated, or very much longer.

Presenter19:50

But generally speaking, uh with some experience you've got a rough idea as to whether it's a a a short two or three day case or two or three weeks.

Presenter19:59

or sometimes two or three months or more.

Presenter20:02

This is a question you must have been asked many times. Your defence counsel for a man who says I done it.

Presenter20:08

And you're quite sure he's done it, but

Presenter20:11

You've still got to go ahead and defend. Well, up to a point. You can't put him in the witness box. If he says to you, I done it, it's a fair cop gov, I done it, then you can't put him in the witness box to say on oath that he hadn't done it.

Presenter20:26

All you can do is to try to destroy the prosecution case, and at the end of the prosecution case make a speech to the jury. It may be you have one or two other witnesses on different aspects of the matter.

Presenter20:38

But then make a speech to the jury to try to satisfy them the prosecution hasn't proved his case. You can't put him in the witness box to say he hasn't done it. No. And of course vice versa, if if you're sure someone is innocent.

Presenter20:49

Oh, if you're sure he's innocent, you can sometimes advise him even then not to go in the witness box,'cause it may be better for him that he doesn't give evidence.

Presenter20:58

But when you're sure he's innocent, it's a very much greater strain upon you than if your personal view is he's guilty.

Presenter21:06

I used to regard it as an exercise in advocacy when I knew he was guilty. It didn't worry me. I just did my best as an exercise in advocacy. When I thought he was innocent, I was very, very worried.

Presenter21:18

Your fifth record, please.

Presenter21:20

I like as a change musical comedy. I'm not sure that the sound of music qualifies to be called a musical comedy. I would rather call it a musical play. But the sound of music is the loveliest one I can recall. I could hear it again and again and again. I've had great difficulty in choosing which piece to choose from it, and I've eventually come down on The Lonely Goatherd, sung by Julie Andrews.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton21:48

High on a hill was a lonely goatherd, lay hood lay, hood lay more. Loud was the voice of the lonely goatherd, lay hood lay, bodiloo. Folks in a town that was quite remote, heard lay, hood lay, hood lay, lay more. Lusty and clear from the goatherd's throat, heard lay hoodloo.

Presenter22:18

Juliandrew singing The Lonely Goatherd from the sound of music

Presenter22:23

You were made a judge and appointed to the old bailey, the central criminal court. Business wasn't nearly as brisk there as it is now.

Presenter22:32

When I was appointed I was junior boy, so to speak.

Presenter22:35

and I sat in the seventh court, which was a temporary court.

Presenter22:40

When I retired there were twenty three courts, and they still, even then, sometimes borrowed courts in the law courts in the Strand.

Presenter22:48

Let's talk about some of the memorable cases over which you presided. Savondra, for example. Oh, yes, indeed. Um fire automarine, or or famic as it came to be called the biggest insurance swindle ever to be tried in this country.

Presenter23:04

But he was a great character, full of uh charm and wit, and uh

Presenter23:10

Enormous personality, which was all, of course, part of his stock in trade. He w he was a conman par excellence.

Presenter23:17

And the celebrated Janie Jones case. Celebrated or infamous? Well, infamous. I mean, the unpleasant side of that case was that it wasn't just the the sorting out of a flourishing prostitution business. There was also, I believe, an element of young girls being lured into prostitution. That was the worst part of it, lured into prostitution, and then, in a sense,

Sir Alan King-Hamilton23:34

Uh

Presenter23:38

blackmailed to stay into it when they realized what they'd let themselves in for and and were wanting to go, and then threats of violence on them if they told their parents or the police. That was the the worst part of it.

Presenter23:55

Now you've tried some very horrible cases.

Presenter23:58

You have to keep your head and, of course, not be swayed by your emotions, which must be very difficult sometimes. It is at times, yes.

Presenter24:05

That after years of experience, you get used to it. You have a sort of clinical approach to it. Do you ever feel it's time to bring back the birch in some cases? Yes, I do.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton24:13

Uh

Presenter24:14

And have said so.

Presenter24:16

Do you think your reputation for toughness was justified? No, I don't. I'm surprised that I have that reputation, because in more cases have I passed a sentence which, on reflection,

Presenter24:29

I have thought was much too lenient.

Presenter24:33

And I've said to myself afterwards, you were weak, you should have passed a a heavier sentence.

Presenter24:39

That's happened far more frequently than the other way about. I can only remember two cases offhand where I passed a sentence which I thought was too heavy, and on reflection I had the defendant back into court and reduced it. I can only recall that having happened twice. I suppose you only have to be besmirched in the press once or twice and and you get a reputation. You get a reputation. Well it's because the cases achieve

Sir Alan King-Hamilton24:52

Yeah.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton25:00

You get a rip.

Presenter25:04

Publicity, enormous publicity, when you pass a heavy sentence uh and uh th it spreads and you and you get the reputation, which in my view, in my case, I think was quite unjustified.

Presenter25:15

Precord number six.

Presenter25:16

The piano concerto number two, the popular one, by um Rafmaninov.

Presenter26:22

The opening of the second rack Maninov piano concerto, Vladimir Ashkenazi, with the London Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Andrei Prevan.

Presenter26:31

You've had some pretty tough characters in the dock, Judge. Do you ever get threats? I have had them, yes. I don't take them very seriously, but uh the police do.

Presenter26:43

They have to because they would be blamed if anything uh went wrong. You've had police protection, I presume, from time to time? In two or three cases, yes. What about threats to jurors?

Presenter26:53

Oh, I've had those, uh when the the jury had to be protected to or from their homes by plainclothes policemen. I hear that nowadays in the old bailey the jurors are kept out of sight of the public court, which which seems a Yes, that happened in my day. There was only one court in those days, and court number two, where the jury box is beneath the public gallery.

Presenter27:16

And whenever you had a case where nobbling, as it's called, was likely to take place, that court was used. But sometimes, unfortunately, you had two or three cases of that kind going on at the same time, and we couldn't all get into the same court.

Presenter27:30

But nowadays they've changed things round because nobling takes place so often.

Presenter27:36

that uh the jury is I think in every court being placed beneath the public gallery. But even that doesn't stop it, because there's somebody in court who will recognize someone.

Presenter27:47

Are there drawbacks to the jury system? You have twelve good men and women, true, but do you sometimes wonder if they're really understanding what's going on? Yes, in some cases, particularly in long commercial fraud cases.

Presenter28:02

I don't think it's fair on the jurors that they should be kept away from their avocations, whatever they are, for three, four or five months or more. They may be missing the chance of

Presenter28:13

Promotion?

Presenter28:14

and their employers are are missing their services.

Presenter28:18

In such cases, particularly in fraud cases, I think a judge and two lay assessors, an accountant may be, and somebody from a Chamber of Commerce would be.

Presenter28:27

Ideal, it would save an awful lot of time. And I presume once a a juror loses the thread of a case like that, he's useless. Yes.

Presenter28:36

You officiated.

Presenter28:38

At a blasphemy case. Now, that's a great rarity. It was the first one for.

Presenter28:43

I can't remember, it was fifty-two or or fifty-six years. Very rare case of criminal libel, and was absolutely fascinating.

Presenter28:51

It was a very unpleasant piece of verse printed in a newspaper for homosexuals. Yes. It was blasphemy against Christ, of course, and you're not a Christian. No. I'm a Jew.

Presenter29:02

And I wondered I now know the reason why I was asked to do it, but uh I needn't go into that. But um I thought at the time it was perhaps because it was thought that I could be more impartial. Was that not the case? I probably was more impartial, but that wasn't the reason I was asked to do it.

Presenter29:18

But I was shocked as much as any Christian would have been, right? Absolutely shocked. But the law was absolutely fascinating.

Presenter29:25

You have now retired. How do you spend your time? I know you keep very busy. I sit from time to time. The Lord Chancellor asked me if I would help out in my local Crown Court, which I do on short stints, no more long cases, thank you. I've had more than my share.

Presenter29:40

I am President of one and Chairman of another association that deals with sheltered flatlets for the elderly, which takes up quite a bit of time.

Presenter29:50

I lecture occasionally.

Presenter29:52

To uh Hendon Police College?

Presenter29:55

and to various people. I talk after dinner and after lunch for various charities.

Presenter30:01

And I've written a book. Ah, yes. Nothing but the truth. And it's doing rather well, I gather. So I'm told. The publishers tell me they're pleased.

Presenter30:10

One amusing incident I was told occurred the other day. A very elegant and well dressed gentleman walked into a bookshop, and saw some of my books lying around, and said to the assistant, I think I'd better buy one of those. I met the judge once. It was on the occasion when he sent me down for a long stretch.

Presenter30:29

Oh, well, it's rather nice to think your own customers are supporting. Yes, you can't sell a book one way, you can sell it another.

Presenter30:37

Another record.

Presenter30:38

This one is the Intimezzo from Cavallera Rusticana by Mascani. I think it's one of the most lovely pieces of music I've ever heard at any time.

Presenter31:49

The intermerzzo from Mascagne's Cavalleria Rusticana, played by the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Carrigan.

Presenter31:58

Now, Judge, we've put you on this desert island. How resourceful are you going to be in those miserable circumstances? Could you look after yourself?

Presenter32:05

My family think I would be quite hopeless.

Presenter32:08

and I'm bound to admit that I'm not very useful about the house, although I do like gardening and do quite a bit of that.

Presenter32:15

But I think that somewhere I've got hidden away some reserves of initiative and resourcefulness, and I think I would surprise even myself. I'd have a jolly good try, anyway. Have you done any fishing? Anything useful like that?

Presenter32:29

I have done fishing, not very successful, but I'm prepared to persevere. Cooking?

Presenter32:35

If I say yes, my family will uh go into hysterics.

Presenter32:39

I have tried, not with great success, but of course one improves as one goes along. Would you try to escape? Do you know anything about navigation?

Presenter32:47

A little bit.

Presenter32:48

I would try to escape after two or three weeks, I think. I would have had enough by then. I would be missing my family very much.

Presenter32:56

But how to escape? That's the point.

Presenter32:59

I I saw outside Oslo um Tor Haerdahl's um Kontiki, the the wonderful raft that he built that went from the South America to uh the Polynesian Islands, I think, s somewhere like that. Uh and that intrigued me enormously, and I would try to do something like that, if only I could attach stabilizers to it, because I'm the world's worst sailor.

Presenter33:22

And I doubt if I could succeed in attaching stabilizers to a raft. This is getting a very ambitious project.

Presenter33:28

He did. Well, good luck then. I think I'd probably have to stay on my island because I couldn't achieve it. What's your last record?

Presenter33:35

The Beethoven Fifth Symphony, Last Movement. Why? Because I love it.

Presenter33:40

I think it's magnificent absolutely magnificent.

Presenter34:41

Part of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony in C minor, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Herbert von Karian. If you could take only one disc out of the eight you've played us, which would it be? I think the last one, the Beethoven.

Presenter34:55

And you're entitled to one luxury, one object that would give you pleasure, but is of no practical use.

Presenter35:02

Could I have a television set?

Presenter35:04

I can't guarantee what reception is like. Well, a solar battery and an enormous aerial. You could you couldn't you manage that? If you like to risk it. Well, can I have an alternative if it doesn't work?

Presenter35:14

Such as

Presenter35:16

I'd like a cricket bat.

Presenter35:19

about a dozen cricket balls, a net, and uh one of those machines which propels cricket balls at you as though it were a bowler.

Presenter35:29

Could you manage that?

Sir Alan King-Hamilton35:29

Uh

Presenter35:30

No practical use.

Presenter35:34

Have the television first, and if it doesn't work, let us know. Then we'll have to fetch the television set before we give you all the cricket apparatus. You say let us know. Right. Does that uh suggest that there's a telephone? Because if there's a telephone there, I want to phone my family.

Sir Alan King-Hamilton35:42

You say let us know.

Presenter35:50

You just send up a rocket.

Presenter35:54

And one book apart from the Bible and the complete works of Shakspere. Cricket, as you may have gathered from what I have just said, is one of the passions of my life, and the book I want is Barclay's World of Cricket. It's edited by Jim Swanton and John Woodcock.

Presenter36:10

It has over five hundred and fifty pages, and it's rather like the fourth bridge. By the time I got to the end of it I'd be quite ready to start again. Right. Give us the title again. BARCLY'S WORLD OF CRICKET, EDITIED BY JIM SWANTON AND JOHN WOODCOT.

Presenter36:25

And uh w when I'm not doing that, I shall fill up the time playing a new game I've invented. What's that? If you don't mind my saying so, uh Mr. Plumley, it's called Desert Island Risks. What are the rules? The rules are that the players imagine that they have acquired a desert island in the remotest part of the southern Pacific.

Presenter36:46

And they have to populate it with eight people.

Presenter36:51

whose deportation to the island would be of benefit to the world in general and the United Kingdom in particular.

Presenter36:57

And the winner would be the person whose list includes three names not on anybody else's list. It's a very good idea. I don't think, before we go off the air, I'll ask you for your list. I'll ask you for it afterwards. I think that would be very wise. Of course, the problem comes when, having chosen one's list, somebody like Roy Plumley asks you, and if you could only send one person to the island, which one would it be? Yes, I might well do that.

Presenter37:24

And thank you, Judge Alan King Hamilton, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you.

Presenter37:30

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 337:56

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.