Gwyneth Jones

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 30:05

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1983.

Speaker 30:11

And the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

This week, our castaway is the singer Gwyneth Jones.

Presenter0:35

Miss Jones, could you endure loneliness for a long time?

Gwyneth Jones0:38

Oh yes, absolutely. Well, as an opera singer one finds oneself very often sitting alone in a hotel.

Gwyneth Jones0:46

and uh oh I find all sorts of things to do.

Presenter0:49

At home do you play records a lot?

Gwyneth Jones0:51

I'm not that often at home, of course. Uh I love to listen to records, although I I very seldom get time to listen to even my own records.

Presenter1:02

Well, you've just got eight on this desert island, a very small allowance. Did you find it difficult to choose?

Gwyneth Jones1:07

Absolutely awful. I mean, one just wants to take everything with you and you you try to choose and you think, Oh no, I must have that and I must have this and it's very, very difficult.

Presenter1:17

Well, there's a pile beside you of just eight.

Presenter1:20

And those are the ones you're stuck with?

Gwyneth Jones1:23

I mean, a a singer of course has a wonderful advantage maybe over other people, and that is that you can sing your own favorite music.

Presenter1:33

And what's the first one on that little poem?

Gwyneth Jones1:35

I'd love to start with the Ninth Symphony of Beethoven, which I think is so wonderful, it's so joyous, and it's something that we're all longing for today, that we could live in peace together, that all men could be brothers and live joyfully together. And I think this is a theme that I would always want to have.

Presenter2:59

Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, The Ode to Joy from the Last Movement, the Vianna Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Leonard Bernstein.

Presenter3:07

There's a rumour going round that you were born in Wales.

Gwyneth Jones3:10

I think there might be some truth in it with a name like Gwynneth.

Presenter3:14

Whereabouts?

Gwyneth Jones3:15

I was born in Pontypool, which is in Monmouthshire, now called Gwent, in South Wales, which is near Cardiff.

Presenter3:22

You had the misfortune to lose your mother. You brought up your father. Is that right? Yes.

Gwyneth Jones3:26

Yes, my mother died unfortunately, very young. She was only twenty-eight and I was just three years old.

Gwyneth Jones3:34

But my father was a wonderful man, and he did everything he worked during the day, and it was very difficult to find people to help, and so we had sort of various housekeepers coming and going.

Presenter3:45

You were an only child.

Gwyneth Jones3:47

No, I had a sister who was three and a half years older than myself.

Gwyneth Jones3:52

So it was quite hard for my father, really, with two little girls and during the war, you know.

Presenter3:57

Now he was a musical man.

Gwyneth Jones3:59

He was musical in that he loved to play the piano, but he didn't really read music. He just played from ear and he would go into the front room and start to play, and he'd say, Come and sing so that I know how it goes. And then I would have to sing for him, and we'd sort of make it up together. Were you given piano lessons early? Oh, yes, yes.

Presenter4:17

Were you given piano lessons early?

Presenter4:20

What sort of things did you sing?

Gwyneth Jones4:23

Well, at the beginning, of course, uh not the classical music that I now sing. It was mostly ballads and things. In fact, the way that I started to sing, I I'd been having singing lessons with a girl up the road, and we mostly sang duets uh in the local Istaford girlfriend and I. And this friend of mine decided she didn't want to give lessons any more.

Gwyneth Jones4:47

So I found myself without a singing teacher for for some time, until I managed to smuggle myself into the local children's choir.

Presenter4:55

That's right, you joined as a gate crasher, aren't you?

Gwyneth Jones4:57

Yes, yes, I wasn't. I was I was scared they wouldn't let me in. And so a friend of mine sort of smuggled me in and I stayed there trembling with fear for absolutely weeks unnoticed until one night I fainted. And this was the way I was discovered, you see, because I'm I was sure they wouldn't let me be there otherwise.

Presenter5:11

We still have a sister covered, you see.

Gwyneth Jones5:16

And because of this, I had to then sing for the conductor's Frieda Martin Fullard. It was Abersachen Cooperative Choir.

Gwyneth Jones5:24

And uh she liked my voice very much, and in fact I was then asked to join a sort of a selected little group.

Gwyneth Jones5:32

of girls that sang in addition to the choir. And one night we were singing in a workman's club actually, and most of the other girls were ill with colds and things, and so they said, Who can sing something, anything?

Gwyneth Jones5:47

And some of the girls said, Oh, Gwynneth can And so I found myself singing just about the only thing I knew, which was I Love the Moon.

Gwyneth Jones5:55

And it was such a success that I had to sing it again.

Gwyneth Jones5:59

And because of this concert, Mrs. Pollard started giving me lessons, and that's how the whole thing started.

Presenter6:05

That little group was the Girls in Harmony.

Gwyneth Jones6:07

The girls in harmony, yes, that's right.

Presenter6:10

And the story really that you became a controut because when you gate crashed and stood in the

Gwyneth Jones6:14

Next to my friend and she was the contradictor.

Presenter6:17

You have no alternative.

Gwyneth Jones6:18

I had to stand next to her, otherwise somebody might give me away.

Presenter6:23

Let's have your second record.

Gwyneth Jones6:26

Uh well, because of my many, many years of singing in children's choirs, I would love to have The Happy Wanderer, which is sung by the Oberkeshena Children's Choir. And at the time when I was in this choir, this was a big hit, and we always wished that we could sing as well as they did, and it was a wonderful time.

Speaker 46:47

Develting nine undread peace and school of the world.

Gwyneth Jones6:48

Yeah.

Speaker 46:55

And the Bolsheviks are

Speaker 47:00

He's a better horse.

Presenter7:17

The Happy Wanderer by the Obenkirchen Children's Choir.

Presenter7:21

Miss Jones, as a schoolgirl, did it ever occur to you that you might one day be a professional singer?

Gwyneth Jones7:29

I hoped I mean, at the at the time I began, of course, I never dreamt of anything like uh what has happened to me.

Gwyneth Jones7:36

I was quite happy singing uh local concerts for old age pensioners and entertaining people in hospital and

Gwyneth Jones7:43

doing the Messiah and Elijah and I mean we did these every Saturday and it was wonderful.

Gwyneth Jones7:49

When I won the scholarship to come to the Royal College of Music, it was a very exciting time for me, but at the same time a very tragic time.

Gwyneth Jones7:59

Because the day

Gwyneth Jones8:01

that the news arrived that I was accepted. My father died just two hours before the letter arrived, and so it was a very mixed day. I was absolutely shattered, as you can imagine. But nevertheless, it gave me great strength because I knew how much my father wanted me to be a singer.

Gwyneth Jones8:23

And this sort of, you know, set me off and I was very lucky to be given a county council scholarship by the Monmouthshire County Council. It was only two hundred and eighty pounds a year to keep me going and wasn't very much, but um

Gwyneth Jones8:38

I managed to stretch it out and make ends meet somehow by doing all sorts of odd jobs, like working in the Mukau milk bar and things and babysitting and

Speaker 48:44

Uh

Presenter8:47

Uh

Presenter8:47

Babysitting

Gwyneth Jones8:49

And because I had been before I came to college, I I had been a shortened typist at the foundry in Pontypool.

Presenter8:58

Did you do operatic work straightaway?

Gwyneth Jones9:01

No, the first year at the Royal College of Music I thought I because I wasn't sure if I would make it, I wanted to get all the qualifications so that I could be a school teacher. You know, if I didn't make it, I I wanted to get my diploma and everything so that then I could go back to Wales and maybe do the odd messiah and teach in a school or something like this. And so the first year I just studied music and everything and got my ARCA and

Gwyneth Jones9:29

It was only the second season that uh they asked me

Gwyneth Jones9:34

if I would go into the opera school and the first thing I did was Hansel in Hansel and Gretel. And I was absolutely in seventh heaven because I mean I just didn't realize how wonderful it was and it was then that I knew what I had to do because being dressed as a boy with sort of patchy trousers on and no shoes and running around and you know it was it was so wonderful that it was quite clear to me this is what I was meant to do.

Presenter10:01

Were you still a contralto? Had they still got the idea that you were the next

Gwyneth Jones10:04

Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. I got to the Royal College of Music and my first teacher was Doctor Arnold Smith, and he told me very firmly that I was the next Clara Butt, which was marvellous.

Speaker 410:17

Because

Speaker 410:18

Uh

Gwyneth Jones10:18

I spent all my time singing really big, heavy, chesty notes, you see. And this went on for several months, and I thought it really it felt, you know, th these very low notes. I didn't feel very comfortable.

Gwyneth Jones10:31

And doctor Smith retired, and Ruth Packer came to take over.

Gwyneth Jones10:36

And the first day she came we had to sing for her, and I sang for her, and then she said Well, my dear, I'm afraid to have to tell you, but you're very definitely a soprano.

Gwyneth Jones10:47

I thought they were crazy.

Speaker 410:49

Absolutely not.

Gwyneth Jones10:49

Absolutely mad. And I said, Well

Gwyneth Jones10:52

I'm not quite sure, and so let's just say that I'm something in the middle between the both of them and work at it quite quietly and see how the voice develops.

Gwyneth Jones11:00

And

Presenter11:00

So you accepted meds.

Gwyneth Jones11:02

Yes, I stayed with the Metzo for a while and uh actually then when I finished college I stayed in the Royal College of Music in the Opera School for well, I was there for four years actually, in in all.

Gwyneth Jones11:15

and when I left I was given several prizes first of all a prize which took me to Italy, to Siena.

Gwyneth Jones11:23

And this was lovely because I was able to practise my Italian.

Gwyneth Jones11:27

And I came back from Siena after working leader with Giorgio Favretto, of all things, instead of doing Italian opera. But it was a lovely time.

Presenter11:37

Before you get on too far, your next record does really link up with college, doesn't it?

Gwyneth Jones11:42

Well, this is why I chose it actually, because I have such wonderful memories. And now, of course, having a child, I have a daughter, eleven years, uh Susannah, and she loves music too. And Hans Langrettel was her first opera we took her to. She was four years old, and we took her to the Met.

Gwyneth Jones12:02

And she was absolutely terrified of the witch.

Gwyneth Jones12:05

said she was never coming to the Opera House again, because the Witch lived there.

Gwyneth Jones12:09

But uh we were absolutely amazed when we asked her on the way home, Well, what did you think was the nicest thing about the performance? And she said, Well, do you know, mummy, I thought it was so wonderful that the musicians in the orchestra played us all the melodies first so that we knew what was coming. And I thought this was marvellous, you know, that she had heard that.

Presenter12:31

I thought this was marvellous.

Speaker 312:33

Yeah.

Gwyneth Jones12:35

And I would love to take Hanslingretto, because it's such a a pure, such a wonderful piece. And I would like you to play, if you could, the prayer just before they go to sleep.

Speaker 412:51

Oh and we

Speaker 412:56

Beauty and I woo.

Speaker 413:02

We feel that all I've done.

Speaker 413:15

Ty to my eyes through.

Speaker 413:24

Twitter, I take my love.

Speaker 413:37

Harvard

Presenter13:44

The prayer from Humberdinks, Hansel and Gretel, Elizabeth Schwartzkopf and Elizabeth Grumer.

Presenter13:51

Right, now you said you had an offer to go to Italy.

Gwyneth Jones13:54

Yes, I I was only there for the summer months because this is a a very short studying time that they have there in the Kidiana Academy. But it was a lovely time, and I did get to learn a lot of Italian and a lot about the temperament of the Italians. So I had a very lovely summer there. It was very nice.

Presenter14:09

Smash.

Presenter14:12

When you came back there was nothing very much happening. You you you had to take to your typewriter again.

Gwyneth Jones14:17

Yes, I was very grateful that I had this experience as a shorthand typist and in fact any type of office worker could could do anything, you know. I mean wages or bookkeeping or anything. And it was a very amusing year. I was having singing lessons in the evening with Ruth Packer. The the study continued with Ruth. And I worked for a temporary secretary agency here in London.

Gwyneth Jones14:44

And so I was very grateful that I had this experience because I I really did not want to go into the operatic chorus. I did a lot of chorus work, but only as a sort of uh with

Presenter14:59

Ad hoc.

Gwyneth Jones14:59

Yes, quite.

Presenter15:00

Or what was the next thing that happened professionally that got you out of being a job?

Gwyneth Jones15:04

Well, I went along for about a year doing this secretarial work, and then suddenly there was a competition again for a scholarship.

Gwyneth Jones15:13

And I entered and won the Boys Foundation scholarship, which I could choose where I would like to go to study abroad. I think it was five hundred pounds or something, this scholarship. And I chose to go to Switzerland because they had just opened a new opera school connected with the Zurich Opera House, and this was being run by Herbert Graaff, Dr. Herbert Graaff. So I went to Zurich to study at the opera school, and because they knew that I had no family and they knew that I had no money apart from this five hundred pounds, they offered to give me a scholarship to pay the studio fees.

Gwyneth Jones15:57

and they put me in touch with the most wonderful woman, Hortense Buehle, who offered to let me stay with her free of charge.

Presenter16:07

Did you have a chance to sing at the Opera House or the Prime Minister?

Gwyneth Jones16:10

Well, yes, everything happened very quickly because in the opera studio we did a sort of performance uh at the end of the first term. And I sang. I was still in mezzo at the time, although Maria Carpi was also trying to convince me that I was a soprano.

Gwyneth Jones16:26

And I did the duet Aida Amneres, and then I did uh a very large scene from Orfeo, Glux Orfeo.

Gwyneth Jones16:36

And Doctor Graf had invited all sorts of agents and opera house directors and people to this performance. And at the end of it, I mean, I was just swamped with invitations, engagements in in Uhl and Bremen and all sorts of German opera houses, and uh I was quite bewildered by the whole thing because of course I didn't know where to go.

Gwyneth Jones16:59

you know, w which would be the best to accept.

Gwyneth Jones17:02

And so I went to Dr. Graff the next day and I said, please, could you help me? Because I've been.

Gwyneth Jones17:07

given all these invitations to have contracts in Germany and I really don't know where to go. And he said, Oh, you have put me into a jam because I want you to sing here and I didn't want to ask you just yet.

Gwyneth Jones17:19

And so it finished up that I stayed in Zurich singing leading roles, and I didn't actually complete the year study in the opera studio, because he sent me home to prepare the roles for the following season.

Presenter17:31

Let's have your fourth record. What's that?

Gwyneth Jones17:34

Because of my Zurich time, uh

Gwyneth Jones17:37

Cortens Bule married Geza Anders, a concert pianist, and We have kept our friendship.

Gwyneth Jones17:45

Geyser was such a wonderful person, and fortunately he died a few years ago.

Gwyneth Jones17:50

And they have a son, Gratian, who is about the age of my daughter, and they live just down the road. And my daughter, Susanna, absolutely adores and loves Grazian, and they play together. And I love, first of all, of course, piano music.

Gwyneth Jones18:07

And I would dearly love to take

Gwyneth Jones18:09

My dearest friend, Geza.

Gwyneth Jones18:12

And I would love to have him playing the concerto for piano and orchestra number twenty one in C major.

Presenter19:21

Jeser Ander, as pianist and conductor, embarked the second movement of the Mozart Piano Concerto, No. twenty one, in C major.

Presenter19:29

Right, Miss Jones, now you began to work at Cotton Garden. That was the next step, wasn't it?

Gwyneth Jones19:34

Yes, well, I accepted Doctor Graf's invitation, and started as a mezzo in Zurich, singing

Gwyneth Jones19:43

Orfeo, which was my first big role there, and lots of little roles, of course. And half way through the season I changed my fach, as we say, my my vocal, from mezzo to soprano.

Gwyneth Jones19:56

and sang Amelia in Balo and Mascara. And I had actually auditioned for Sir George Schulte as a mezzo, singing things like Ebuli and that. So after having sung Amelia with tremendous success,

Gwyneth Jones20:13

I wrote to Sir George and said, Well, I don't know whether you still want me to come, because I would really prefer not to sing the mezzo rolls that I've been engaged. I was supposed to sing Amneris and things like this, Ebuli here.

Gwyneth Jones20:27

and I would prefer to start in Koffengarden as a soprano.

Gwyneth Jones20:32

And you probably don't have any rolls for me because everything had been given away.

Gwyneth Jones20:38

So he said, Well, as long as you don't mind having to sing lots of small parts as well, then we welcome you with open arms. And I went.

Gwyneth Jones20:46

and sang all sorts of things like Rhine maidens and Norns and, you know, maidens in anything and

Gwyneth Jones20:52

It was only at the end of the first season that Covent Garden had to close to have renovation done in in the in the auditorium. And we went on tour to Coventry and Manchester, and this was my big chance, so to speak, because then I was able to sing Octavian.

Gwyneth Jones21:13

and Lady Macbeth. And at the same time I was singing in Wales Lady Macbeth and was planning to do Fidelio there too.

Presenter21:21

For the Welsh National

Gwyneth Jones21:22

For the Welsh National Press.

Gwyneth Jones21:25

It was, yes, it really was. I I loved this time. It was it was wonderful being home and being with all my friends and everything and

Gwyneth Jones21:34

It was very lucky, actually, that I had the chance to do Fidelio in Cardiff, in English, because the following season at Covent Garden, which was my second season there,

Gwyneth Jones21:48

They had very little for me again because I'd sort of changed from mezzo to soprano, and, as you know, things are booked years ahead.

Gwyneth Jones21:57

And so Joan Inkpen said, Well, I'm afraid the only thing we have for you next season

Gwyneth Jones22:03

Is Santuza.

Gwyneth Jones22:05

And I said, Oh, for heaven's sakes, I mean, that's very literal. I mean, I don't want to spend a whole year just doing one roll and then, you know, tiny little rolls again. Isn't there anything around that I could maybe do the second cast of or something?

Gwyneth Jones22:20

She said, Well, Crespa can't be here for the last performance of Fidelio. And now if you could do it without any rehearsal, then you could do it. But you'll have to sing for Sir George.

Presenter22:33

Without any rehearsal at all.

Gwyneth Jones22:34

On stage, no orchestra rehearsal. I could rehearse in a room.

Presenter22:36

Percent.

Gwyneth Jones22:38

But n not with the actual artists because I mean I could only sort of, you know, be with a stage assistant in a room on my own, being told the mo yes.

Presenter22:46

Being told

Gwyneth Jones22:48

And of course they were doing it in German at Koffengarten and I'd never done it in German. I was doing it in English in Cardiff.

Gwyneth Jones22:54

And so I learned Fidelio in English and German at the same time.

Gwyneth Jones22:59

and went to attend all the rehearsals I possibly could to see how the production was looking on stage, and then did the last performance, after, of course, doing an audition for Sir George to make sure that he thought that I could sing it.

Gwyneth Jones23:14

And um

Gwyneth Jones23:15

It was an enormous success, thank goodness, and the public just went wild and tore their programmes up in up in the gauze and threw them all down like confetti, and it was absolutely marvellous.

Presenter23:25

Well, at that point it seems we should break for another record.

Gwyneth Jones23:29

I would love to have something a little different, but something which I think is is so wonderful.

Gwyneth Jones23:36

And that is the final duet from Lin Coronazione di Poppea, Monteverdi.

Presenter23:42

Why do you choose this?

Gwyneth Jones23:43

I chose it because I so seldomly get a chance to sing this type of music. But I was very, very fortunate to have this chance. It was in Paris. I had John Vickers as my partner, and it was the most wonderful experience for me, and particularly this last duet.

Presenter24:05

Now I know you haven't recorded that, so whose performances would you like to hear?

Gwyneth Jones24:10

I would love to hear Elizabeth Serderstrom and Helen Donet singing it.

Speaker 424:32

What a day.

Speaker 424:53

What is the game?

Speaker 425:02

Oh no.

Presenter25:14

The closing duet from The Coronation of Poppier by Monteverdi and the singers Elizabeth Soderstrom and Helen Donnard. When did you begin to sing Wagner, and what was your first Wagnerian role?

Gwyneth Jones25:27

I was very lucky because I started here at home, and I had Sir George Shulty, who was just wonderful, such a wonderful help, and Hans Hotter was at that time doing the production of The Ring here, and I sang Siglinda. Of course I had sung Valkyries and Things before at Covent Garden also.

Presenter25:48

Yeah.

Gwyneth Jones25:49

But Siglinto was the first Big Role.

Presenter25:49

But see

Presenter25:51

And then quite soon by Roy.

Gwyneth Jones25:53

Very soon, very soon in nineteen sixty six, in fact, I made my debut in Bayreuth, although Wieland Wagner had been asking me to do things with him in other places even before this.

Gwyneth Jones26:07

And I went in nineteen sixty six and sang two performances of Die Walkure, Sieglinde, and had an enormous success and was immediately invited to go back the following year. Unfortunately, in nineteen sixty seven I couldn't accept to go. I was invited to do the new production of Lohengrin there, the Elsa.

Gwyneth Jones26:28

But I couldn't accept because I already had commitments in Japan and Buenos Aires and all these places. And so we made arrangements. Wolfgang Wagner invited me

Presenter26:32

And to these places.

Gwyneth Jones26:40

The following year to do a new production of The Meistersinger.

Gwyneth Jones26:44

So I went as Ava, and in fact continued to go then for the next fifteen years.

Presenter26:50

You could say that Cotton Garden and Byright have have provided the basis of your career.

Gwyneth Jones26:55

Yes, I think it's a good idea.

Presenter26:55

I mean there's Vienna of course and the Metropolitan but to to a lesser extent than the other two houses.

Gwyneth Jones27:00

Yes, absolutely, because this was really the sort of ground o of my career, the stone, so to say the foundation.

Presenter27:08

And we saw you uh as Brunhilde on television in in the Bayreuth ring.

Gwyneth Jones27:09

You were

Gwyneth Jones27:13

Yes, well, I've done in Bayreuth during these fifteen years. I've done just about every role that there is to sing in Wagner. And I I did most of my roles, other than See Glinde, all for the first time in Bayreuth, including Brynhilde.

Gwyneth Jones27:30

and Vanus, and Elizabeth, and Condry, and just all of them.

Gwyneth Jones27:35

And it it's wonderful working there because there's such a wonderful family atmosphere there and you're there for several months and absolutely

Gwyneth Jones27:44

just bathed in the music of Wagner. I mean, everywhere you go, out of every room comes floating, you know, music of Wagner.

Presenter27:53

How long does the season last?

Gwyneth Jones27:55

Well, we start rehearsing depending whether it's a new production. Of course, if it's a new production of The Ring or something, then we start very early. We start already sort of mid-June.

Gwyneth Jones28:05

or at the latest end of June, and then you're there until the end of August, so it's a long time. And it's a very small town. I mean, there's really nothing else to do there except make music and uh sing Wagner, other than sort of walking in the woods and looking for mushrooms. So I've had plenty of practice, you know, sort of walking around sort of.

Presenter28:18

Other than sort of

Presenter28:24

Well, I know you care for the Wagner record, so I think it's

Gwyneth Jones28:28

It's weird.

Presenter28:28

It's a little bit.

Gwyneth Jones28:29

Yes, it's very difficult having such a varied repertoire and singing all the Wagner, but I think I really must choose Brunhilde, and I think it must be the Ewisch Waarisch von Siegfried, because I think this music is so exquisite, so wonderful.

Presenter28:49

Now this is your own recording.

Gwyneth Jones28:52

Yes, I would like to have this one, which is the recording from the Byrude ring which has just been shown on television.

Gwyneth Jones28:59

Because these five years of being involved with the Cherot Bullets ring in Bayreuth have been for me

Gwyneth Jones29:08

I think

Gwyneth Jones29:10

Just the most special experience in my career.

Speaker 429:24

I thought

Speaker 429:29

Yeah.

Presenter30:16

An excerpt from the third act of Siegfried, your own recording. Gwyneth, you live in Zurich now, of course.

Gwyneth Jones30:22

Yes, I live on the lake of Zurich in Kuznach.

Presenter30:24

You're married to a Swiss.

Gwyneth Jones30:26

I'm married to Swiss, yes. We live in a house, it's called Himmeli, which means little heaven. It was very funny this Christmas, actually, I have an aunt who is living in in Monmouch still, and she must be getting a little forgetful. She sent a Christmas card and forgot to put our name on, and just wrote on the envelope Himmel Kusnach.

Gwyneth Jones30:48

which means heaven in Kusnacht and the letter arrived.

Presenter30:51

We might talk.

Presenter30:53

You've never allowed yourself to become a a jet set singer. You you don't rush all over the world.

Gwyneth Jones30:58

No, uh although it always looks as if I do, because I appear in all the leading opera houses and I do an awful lot and I have a very varied repertoire. But I plan my seasons very, very carefully and I plan my holidays very, very carefully because I like to be with my family, with with our daughter. We like to take holidays when she has school holidays. And uh I think it's very important that you're able to unwind and rest. And we like to go skiing and we like to go to the sea and things.

Presenter31:28

This is a question that must have been asked so many times. In opera things go wrong. What has been your worst moment?

Gwyneth Jones31:36

Oh, we have had very many funny moments. I mean, like one night in Hamburg, for instance, I was singing Salome.

Gwyneth Jones31:43

And uh they forgot

Gwyneth Jones31:45

To tell the man, the hinker, the one that cuts the head off, you know, John the Baptist.

Speaker 431:50

Yeah.

Gwyneth Jones31:51

They forgot to tell him that there was a performance, and so when the moment came no one came in, because they didn't discover he wasn't in the theatre until it was too late.

Gwyneth Jones32:00

And I must say that it was a very nervous moment for me because I didn't quite know whether I should jump into the cistern and sort of get it there myself or whether I should just wait and see, you know, whether I would have to sing it didn't come at all. And I mean, I was singing this the the the passage of music which comes before the head comes out, which is very tricky.

Presenter32:13

But I would have to

Speaker 432:14

On the left.

Gwyneth Jones32:22

And at the time, it's amazing how many thousands of things you can think of at the same time.

Gwyneth Jones32:27

I was working out in my mind what I was going to do if I didn't get a head. You know, how to sort of seam this whole monologue without a head.

Speaker 332:32

To sort of

Gwyneth Jones32:35

But I mean one one has so many funny things that happen, e especially in the repertoire theatre, where you arrive and you don't meet your colleagues and you have no rehearsal and you're just thrown on. I mean, for instance, once in Dusseldorf I was doing Trovatore.

Gwyneth Jones32:51

And there was no rehearsal. I didn't meet anybody beforehand. And I was making up in the dressing room and wasn't particularly listening to the Tannhoi and got on to the stage and to my amazement discovered that everybody was singing in German and I was singing in Italian. And the tenor came sort of rushing across the stage and I threw myself into his arms and we were singing the tat set and then I sort of said Gutenhabent and he said Hi, kid.

Gwyneth Jones33:18

It's terribly funny. But things like this happen all the time.

Presenter33:24

Yeah.

Gwyneth Jones33:24

Yeah.

Presenter33:26

And you have little routines or certain things.

Gwyneth Jones33:28

Well, you never put shoes on the table and you never whistle backstage and

Gwyneth Jones33:32

And you do things without e even once. You tell yourself you're not superstitious, but you would never go onto stage unless you, you know, had all these.

Presenter33:39

You've gone through the routine.

Gwyneth Jones33:40

Yes, yes, you have to, yes.

Presenter33:43

What's your seventh record?

Gwyneth Jones33:45

I would love to take the chorus from the Saint Matthew Passion in Tears of Grief.

Presenter34:52

The chorus In Tears of Grief from the Bach Saint Matthew Passion.

Presenter34:57

The Concertgebau Orchestra conducted by Joachim, and of course the Netherlands Radio Chorus. Now, your last record. What's that to be?

Gwyneth Jones35:07

Well, I would love to take something from The Rose and Cavalier, because The Rose and Cavalier has been

Gwyneth Jones35:13

accompany me somehow all my career through, and now I sing the marshalling which I'm singing at Coffin Garden at the moment.

Gwyneth Jones35:21

But every time I leave in the third act after this wonderful tat set.

Gwyneth Jones35:27

I always stand on the side of the stage and listen to this.

Gwyneth Jones35:31

Wonderful, exquisite last duet, and I have always a sneaky little wish that I were still on stage and could be able to sing it, because I think it is so wonderful.

Presenter35:41

Well, we hear you on this recording, De

Gwyneth Jones35:43

Yes, yes, Wis Bernstein.

Presenter36:46

You and Lucia pop in the closing duet of Richard Strauss's Der Rosen Cavalier, which are singing at Covent Garden at the moment, to be followed by Tosca.

Presenter36:56

Could you look after yourself on a desert island? Are you an open air lady?

Gwyneth Jones37:00

I love the countryside. I love nature.

Presenter37:03

But could you look after yourself? Could you get food? Could you get yourself? Oh, absolutely.

Gwyneth Jones37:06

Oh, absolutely. Oh, yes. I'm a fantastic fisher. I mean, I always catch eels because, you know, usually when I go fishing I take a score along with me.

Presenter37:08

Yes, I'm fantastic.

Gwyneth Jones37:16

And then of course I get so involved with the music that I forget to move my fishing rod and then the eels will come on and that's

Presenter37:23

It would be lovely, yeah.

Gwyneth Jones37:24

It would be lovely, yes, yes. I'm I but I'm afraid I don't like eels very much. No, but I can tickle too, I can tickle. Yes, absolutely, I'll do anything like that, yeah.

Presenter37:27

No, but I

Presenter37:30

Yes, absolutely.

Presenter37:33

Would you try to escape?

Gwyneth Jones37:35

I don't think I would.

Gwyneth Jones37:36

No, I think I would just enjoy it until some one came along to rescue me, because I think I would just think I was having the most wonderful holiday, and just have time to think.

Presenter37:45

Right, but we've heard your eight records. If you could take only one out of that eight, which would it be?

Gwyneth Jones37:49

Yeah.

Gwyneth Jones37:50

Yeah.

Presenter37:52

At turning the screw, you've just got one record on your island.

Gwyneth Jones37:56

Mm.

Gwyneth Jones37:57

I would go between Poppeir and Siegfried, I think.

Presenter38:00

Yeah, it's a snap decision.

Gwyneth Jones38:01

Yes, and I think it would have to be probably Poppea, because all the rest I could sing myself so easy, and somehow I find Poppea so refreshing.

Presenter38:13

The closing duet from the coronation of Papa.

Gwyneth Jones38:14

And

Presenter38:16

And you're allowed to take one luxury, any one object of no practical use that you would like to have with you? I thought I could take

Gwyneth Jones38:23

Take my piano.

Presenter38:24

Well, you can take a piano. Yes, an upright piano.

Gwyneth Jones38:26

Oh yes, that would be lovely. But could I have sort of a piano stool? Which would, you know, be full.

Presenter38:33

Of music?

Gwyneth Jones38:34

No of lovely bars

Gwyneth Jones38:37

salts and and cream, you know, so that I could really sort of make, you know, really spoil myself.

Presenter38:42

Well, this is a smuggling job. We won't look inside the piano stool.

Gwyneth Jones38:46

I could have some music in, if you if you would allow that. I would love that, of course.

Presenter38:50

You have to cut down on the bath salt.

Gwyneth Jones38:52

Yes.

Presenter38:52

Yes, that's your decision. Now, one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare.

Gwyneth Jones38:53

That's what it's

Gwyneth Jones38:57

I would love to take her long.

Gwyneth Jones39:00

the Neula Rus Encyclopedia of Mythology, because I'm fascinated with mythology and I would love to once have really time to get all of these gods and people sort of sorted out, who is related to who and when they were born and what they did and

Presenter39:16

Almost as difficult as the ring.

Gwyneth Jones39:18

Yes, well quite. I mean it's all in there, you know, and I could really enjoy myself then.

Presenter39:22

The New La Russe Encyclopedia of Mythology, you shall have it. And thank you, Gwyneth Jones, for letting us hear your Desert Island Disc.

Gwyneth Jones39:30

Thank you for letting me come along, I've enjoyed myself.

Presenter39:33

Good. Thank you. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 339:59

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.