Baroness Maria Von Trapp

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty three.

Speaker 10:11

And the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

Our castaway this week is an author, lecturer, and musician. It's the Baroness Maria von Trapp.

Presenter0:38

Baroness, how well do you think you could endure loneliness on a desert island?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp0:43

I just want to add, besides being what you said I am, I'm also a mother and a grandmother. I have ten children, twenty-nine grandchildren and eleven great-grandchildren.

Presenter0:54

Ending congratulations

Presenter0:56

Now, do you think the eight records you've chosen would help you on your desert island by making you more cheerful, or would they make you rather sad because they'd remind you vividly of the past?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp1:07

Well, some of them certainly would. The ones by Lottie Lehmann.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp1:11

whom I knew very well and was a personal friend with her glorious

Presenter1:16

Go ahead.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp1:16

Uh

Presenter1:16

Mm.

Presenter1:18

And also don't tell us in advance what we're going to hear because it's got to be a surprise.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp1:21

No, I was

Presenter1:25

What's the first one you've chosen?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp1:28

Ein Kleinachtmusik by Mozart. And why do you choose that? Because it is so joyous.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp1:34

If you are really

Baroness Maria Von Trapp1:36

In a lousy mood where you could spit, you play the Kleinachmusik and you are all right.

Speaker 41:48

Um

Presenter2:42

The Piano Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Carl Bohm,

Presenter2:45

The rondo from Eine Kleine Nacht musik for playing when you're in a lousy mood and could spit. Now, Baroness, you were born in Austria. Whereabouts? In Austria.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp2:56

In a most mountainous section in Tyrol. I believe you were born in a train, is that right? Yes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:02

My mother visited relatives, and then she thought, It looks as if it were uh going to be time.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:09

and got herself into a train on on her way to Vienna, where her husband expected her, on this particular train.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:16

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:17

For reason I have forgotten, I couldn't wait that long. And so I appeared in the train, and the conductor had nine children himself, and knew all about it, and he played midwife.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:30

And then he begged my mother, practically on his knees, to please get off the train he wanted to get rid of her.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:39

Go to a hospital, you belong to a hospital now. And she said, No, my husband expects me with this train, and I stay here.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:45

And so

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:46

That was my beginning.

Presenter3:47

That was a

Baroness Maria Von Trapp3:48

A r remarkable woman, your mother. Alas, you never knew her, did you? No, she died when I was really a baby, less than a year old.

Presenter3:57

So you were brought up by foster parents, were they kind to you? Very. But you did see your father still.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:03

Yeah?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:04

My father had a very

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:06

Hard life.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:07

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:09

He was must have been a very, very interesting person.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:12

But I was seven years old when he died.

Speaker 44:15

Yes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:15

It was so I was too young to really.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:18

Find out much.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:19

At school, what did you want to be? What was your early ambition? First of all, I wanted to have ten children. I didn't go into details how I would get them, you know. But I wanted to have ten children because I was alone and I suffered so much from being an only child. And that should not happen ever again, you see. So

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:39

And I did get ten children.

Presenter4:41

Yes, eventually.

Presenter4:44

You did, in fact, decide to run away from your foster home.

Presenter4:48

But

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:49

But

Presenter4:49

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:49

I did.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:51

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:52

See, after my father died, the god of guardian.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:55

And he was

Baroness Maria Von Trapp4:58

I say right away to his excuses that he ended up in an insane asylum. That explains it. Because he used to beat me mercilessly for nothing. And I was just getting fed up. So when I was fourteen years old, you see, I anticipated of going to America anyhow, some day. So I just left. Where did you go?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:19

I went to a classmate on the other side of Vienna.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:23

And I stayed there?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:24

And she lived

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:26

With her family.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:27

in a what I would call now a tourist section.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:31

And I was fourteen years old. I had two very long braids, you see, which I wore hanging down.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:38

Pigtailed.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:40

I went from hotel to hotel, which there were plenty,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:43

and offered my services as teacher. As teacher of what? Of anything, see, if if they needed a teacher.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:50

I like to teach, that's all. I w always wanted to be a teacher. But in hotels, did they need teachers? Oh, some of the kids needed

Baroness Maria Von Trapp5:58

What do you call it?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:02

Well

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:03

I wasn't lucky after I think twenty-eight hotels hadn't still

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:08

found something. So I started with the first hotel again and said

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:12

I offer my services to just anything.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:15

And I was so lucky we have a a saying.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:19

The two mahats click.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:21

The stupid one has the luck.

Speaker 46:23

Mm-hmm.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:24

Because they needed

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:27

S uh what is that word now?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:30

A tennis match needs somebody who who an umpire, yeah.

Presenter6:33

An umpire

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:36

And I was fresh enough to say yes. Did you know about tennis? Absolutely nothing.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:43

I was amazed to see the little boy, you see, I didn't even know that much.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:46

But it worked.

Presenter6:48

Yes. For a time.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:49

For a time.

Presenter6:51

Well, you've had your first job. You've started off on your own at fourteen. Let's have your second record now. What's that going to be?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp6:58

Schubert and the Musique sang.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:02

By Lottie Lehmann.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:04

Every year during the Salzburg festivals, Lotte Lehmann, besides uh being an opera singer, gave uh

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:12

Song recital

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:14

At the Mozateum?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:16

And that was something very elegant and very great.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:19

At eleven o'clock in the morning,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:22

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:23

Once a week, four four times.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:26

And I was sitting there in the first row

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:28

And I remember?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:30

I had a new

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:31

Costume with a taffeta apron.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:36

And at the end of the concert, in my lap,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:39

It was a little puddle.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:41

I had cried so hard. I didn't notice when I did it, you know. It was so overwhelmingly beautiful.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp7:48

and the taffeta apron was spoilt.

Speaker 48:08

Yeah.

Presenter8:51

Lotter Lehmann singing Schubert's Andie Musik, a recording which she made in nineteen twenty seven. So you've started off, you've had ten days as a successful tennis umpire. What happened then?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:03

Well, I never went back to my foster mother and guardian.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:07

I

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:09

succeeded in the entrance examination.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:13

to something brand new.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:15

In Austria.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:16

The State Teachers' College for Progressive Education.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:21

And there I stayed the next four years. I always wanted to be a teacher, so I became one.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:27

And I really loved it and I still do.

Presenter9:30

Where did you learn your music? Because music means a great deal to you. Was it at school? Was it at home?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:34

In Barcia you don't learn music.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:37

You sing, you listen,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:40

And if you are good enough you get lessons.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:43

But everybody sings, everybody listens. It used to be the daily life.

Presenter9:48

Right. Now you've had your your four years in the college.

Presenter9:51

Where did you go then?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:52

Well, here comes a very dramatic moment.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp9:56

As it is the custom in Austria, every graduation class of a

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:01

Gymnasium school makes

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:05

A

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:06

Graduation

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:08

Um hmm

Presenter10:10

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:10

Yeah.

Presenter10:10

Uh

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:10

Ceremony?

Presenter10:10

Dead?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:11

Trip.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:13

A one week trip into the mountains.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:16

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:17

That's what my class did.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:19

And we went to Tyrol.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:21

Into the glacier world, you know.

Presenter10:23

Yes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:23

And on the last evening see, I was a good mountain climber, so I was the last one

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:28

The guide wi the professional guide was the first one.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:32

Who

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:33

Fastened the rope.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:34

And I was the last one who took it off the hook.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:37

And I was standing there for a moment alone,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:40

As the last one.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:42

And it was sunset. And this is something I wish to everybody to see once, once a lifetime. Sunset in the glaciers.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:51

Colors you don't even know existed, you know, you see changing in front of your eyes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:56

It was so terrific.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp10:58

And I thought, well, and all this God gave to me, what can I give him?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:04

And there I had a tremendous idea.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:06

The best of the best is. I give it right back to him.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:10

I shall go to a convent, to a strict one.

Speaker 411:13

Yeah, it's

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:14

But I can never go out again. I shall never see this again. I give it back to him. It isn't quite it doesn't sound logic, you see, but never mind. In that age you don't need to be logical.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:24

It uh served my purpose. I gave something terrifically big.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:29

To God.

Presenter11:30

Yes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:31

I went down the mountains and out to Salzburg, asked my way to

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:35

Strictest convent in town.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:38

which was the Benedictine Abbey, Nunberg.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:41

And there I appeared and this is really funny you have to know the workings of a convent.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:46

It was such a strict one that the parlor had a fence in the middle. On the one side were the nuns, and on the other side was the world, you know in this case I.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp11:56

And I had to wait until Reverend Mother Abbas came, and she was very tiny, and very frail, and very loving.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:02

And she said

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:04

What can I do for you, my child?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:06

And I stood there, dark brown, dark brown, from the glaciers.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:12

With the Ruxa.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:14

and the rope over my shoulder.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:17

and the ice pick in my right hand.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:20

And in this imposing position I announced I have come to stay here. See, this is not usually the way to enter a convent, I found out later.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:30

But he was so great that she took me.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:33

And for two blessed years these darling nuns tried to turn a boy into a girl

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:38

and make a lady out of that girl, you see, which was awfully hard.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:44

And that was that.

Presenter12:45

What work did they give you to do? I was teaching.

Presenter12:48

What happened next after that two years?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:52

Well

Baroness Maria Von Trapp12:53

One day, at the end of the two years, I was called to see Reverend Mother Abbas, and that sounded not good.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:01

So I took a long trip detour to go to her room, thinking hard, just what does she know?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:09

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:10

When I came to her room, she said, Maria,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:14

I want to know how much you have learned in our house. What is the most important thing in life?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:20

Now I was so relieved that this is all she wanted to know.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:24

because that I had really learned and so I said with great conviction

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:29

The most important thing in life is to find out what is the will of God, and then go and do it.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:36

Even if it is hard? she asked.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:39

Even if it is hard, I said, just like this.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:42

And right there and then I was told.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:45

A certain navy captain

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:47

A Bear on George von Trapp.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:49

had been

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:50

There seeing the nuns this morning, asking whether they could lend him.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:55

Lent him.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp13:57

a teacher for one school year because one of his children had had a bad case of scarlet fever and had to be tutored at home.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:06

And all the nuns together decided to send me.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:11

I was heartbroken. I didn't want to go. I really wanted to stay. That was my place.

Speaker 414:16

Dear

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:17

But now I had to eat my words, you see, even if it is hard. You were intending to take your bows and stand.

Speaker 414:22

I love it.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:25

To the finals, you see.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:28

So now I had to go, and Reverend Mother repeated sev several times, It's only Lent. See, I'm only Lent. I'm only being Lent.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:37

Well, and so I went out and never came back. Yes. Because a year later, almost a year later, three weeks less than a year.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:46

when I should have returned.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:48

The children I was going to teach were

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:52

From four to fourteen.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:54

Two boys and five girls.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp14:56

And my special pupil was Maria and she was twelve years old, but I got them all.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:02

Balen Bal. See there there was a a a nursemaid for the little ones and uh a a somebody for the boys, whatever you call that.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:11

A tune to that tune. And I was for the middle class.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:15

And it didn't take long, you see, and they the other two left and I had them all.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:21

And it was wonderful, and I loved it, and I loved them, and they loved me.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:26

and, as I said, three weeks before the year was over, the three little ones, four, six, and eight years old.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:33

came to their father and said, Papa, we have talked it over.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:38

The only way to keep her here for good

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:42

Her is me.

Presenter15:42

Yes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:43

Keep her here for good, is.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:46

You have to marry her.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:48

And the father said, Well, I don't even know whether she likes me.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:52

Now I was standing in the big living room on a ladder.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp15:56

In my left hand a bowl with lukewarm water, in my right hand a little sponge, because the hand book of the German housewife said in spring a part of the spring cleaning is that you have to

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:10

Wash your

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:11

Chandelier with lukewarm water in the sponge. That's what I did. I was standing up there on that ladder when the kids came running in and said,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:18

Do you like our father? Now what would you say to that question? I said, Of course I do. They ran back and said to him, Of course she does.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:27

On that particular evening,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:29

I was in the big living room again fixing flowers, and I had a peony I never forget this situation. I had a peony in my right hand, and a precious Kopenhagen vase in my left hand, and I was just in the process of putting the one into the other when the Captain came in and said

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:48

This was really very nice of you.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:50

And I stopped for a moment with my peony and said, What?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:55

And he said, Aren't we engaged?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp16:58

Down went the Rees, and I had that eerie feeling there's something wrong with him.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:04

And when he saw that I wasn't feeling engaged at all, you see

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:08

His very, very beautiful dark eyes kind of shadowed over, or however you say that in English.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:15

And I noticed that he looked sad, and I thought, Well, how can I help him?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:19

I am going to run into town now and ask Reverend Mother for a message, and if she sends word that this is the will of God that I come back home in three weeks, then it will be easier for him to take it. So I did.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:34

I left my peony and my v the vase was gone, you see.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:37

and ran into town.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:40

and all the way hundred and forty four steps up to to my abbey.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:44

and told Reverend Mother. And she disappeared and I was sitting in the novitiate visiting with my old buddies.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:53

And when she came back,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:55

She said.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp17:57

She had called the whole community together,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:00

They had prayed to the Holy Spirit,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:03

For enlightenment what to do with me?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:06

And they found out that it is much more important that these children get a new mother

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:11

Then that I go back

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:13

To my Eddie.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:15

And that was the message.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:16

And with that I had to go back home now.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:20

hoping that when I arrive there the house will be dark and I won't have to face anybody.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:26

Well, it wasn't, you see. He was standing right there in the middle of the hall.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:30

And as there was nothing and nobody else to see I just ran over and I poured my nose into his shoulder and said, They told me I have to marry you Ha ha ha.

Presenter18:40

And now we were engaged.

Presenter18:43

Right. Well, that's how you got seven of the ten children that you wanted right away, ready-made.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:46

Right away.

Presenter18:48

Let's have another record.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:50

As we lived in Salzburg.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:53

We had the great privilege to hear all the great ones, and one of the greatest of the great ones.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp18:59

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp19:01

He is singing now this beautiful area from the Tsavafloat, the Oasis and Osiris.

Presenter19:01

Bossy singing.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp19:06

I just talk about it the season it gets cool down my spine. It is so great. That glorious voice of his.

Presenter20:15

Rickard Meyer singing O Isis Unto Siris from The Magic Flute.

Presenter20:20

Was there a lot of music in the captain's house?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:24

Not when I came. You see, to my great astonishment, you see, these kids hadn't sung yet. And I had a guitar in the very first evening already. You see, we said

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:34

On the floor

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:35

around the fireplace and I started we have those very, very beautiful Austrian folk songs Austrian, not German folk songs from the mountains, you see.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:48

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:49

I found out to my great joy that they are all very musical.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:52

The boys were so very

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:54

Nice. That one turned into a tenno and the other one into a bass.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp20:59

And so we had our quartet.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:01

There was a father Vasner who came on the scene. We had a chapel in the house, and for the chapel we had a priest coming to say mass.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:08

And one day the bishop sent a new priest, a young one.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:11

And he was really music walking on two legs.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:15

That's the best way to describe Father Vasna.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:18

He was such a musician

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:20

And he found that we were singing folk songs and doing it very nicely.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:25

And he introduced us now to the wonder world

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:29

The music of the sixteenth, seventeenth, eighteenth century Palestrina, Orlando di Lasso, Vittoria, and all the great masters a cappella. And he insisted that we sing by heart we had to learn everything by heart so not to pour our nose into into music, but to look at the conductor.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:47

And in old time is saying very well.

Presenter21:49

Yeah.

Speaker 421:49

Uh

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:50

And that was it.

Presenter21:52

Eventually you gave a concert at the Salzburg Festival.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp21:54

Not yet. Not yet. Eventually the Salzburger festivals came around again and Lotte Lehmann, the great Lotte Lehmann.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:02

Came to pay us a visit.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:04

And we just happened to be outside in our park, and there was a screen of pine trees, and behind that screen, natural screen.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:12

We were singing.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:13

And she stopped and listened, and she had never heard anything like it. And she got so excited, and she said, You have to give a concert now at the Salzburg Festivals.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:24

And the father said,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:27

Baron George on Trapp said.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:30

My family will never be on the stage.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:33

By saying this, he proved that he was no prophet, because this is what we exactly what we did the next 20 years, you know.

Presenter22:39

Yes, it does indeed.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:41

So Lotta Lehmann had her ways, and she got him

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:44

twiddled around so that he allowed it for one time only, and he kept repeating this day and night.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:50

Just once.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:51

And that just once cancelled proved to be the turning point in our life.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp22:56

Because of the Salzburg festivals all the famous

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:01

Impresarius.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:03

congregated in Salzburg to find new talent talent hunt, you know.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:08

And there they

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:10

At that one concert, you see, they all were in the rear, listening in, because they had never heard anything about one family singing Palestrina or something like that.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:20

The next day we had contracts for every single country outside the Iron Curtain.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:26

And the captain, my husband, bought a scrapbook and we pasted the contracts in as souvenirs. Uh Yeah. Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:33

And then see all this looking back is also providential. It had to happen like this, one after the other.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:39

And then Hitler invaded Austria.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:43

And this precious scrapbook proved to be our salvation.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:49

After we had said no often enough that we realized we can't stay,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp23:54

See, we we had been asked to sing to sing for Hitler's birthday, and we said no, thank you very much, but no.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:01

And you can't do this too often to Hitler.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:04

And so

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:05

See, this is all arranged by God. We didn't even have to make that painful decision.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:10

we we were by our life we were driven to it. And so once more the Trubb family packed their rucksacks.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:18

which our neighbors were used to see. See, we almost every weekend we went on hikes. So there was nothing new about that, except there were different things in the Ruxak this time.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:28

Because we really said goodbye to our life, to our former life, to the beautiful estate we had lived in, to the eight servants we had had easing our our lives.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:41

and we walked around that fence over to the little railroad station.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:46

and took a local

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:49

to Italy.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:50

which is bordering us Salzburg.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:53

and in Italy we arrived as refugees.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp24:56

Let's have another record, number four. The Jupiter Symphony.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp25:01

is one of the most majestic works of Mozart, and it underlines what I said.

Presenter26:09

The opening of Mozart's Symphony No. forty one, The Jupiter, played by the New Philharmony Orchestra conducted by Giulini.

Presenter26:17

Now with Father Wosner you eventually arrived in America where you began to give concerts for war aid.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:23

Yes?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:25

The American General of the Occupation Army, in Salzburg.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:30

Wrote an official letter to the T Trapped Family Singers, that's what we were called.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:35

Asking the Trap Family singers whether they could do something for Austria because the people are sick.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:41

And hungry

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:42

and desperate.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:44

And I took that letter on the stage in the intermission, and read it to the people.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:49

And there we discovered the American heart. An American is by birth.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp26:55

unable to see suffering somewhere without doing something.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:00

Big or small, but something.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:02

And we

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:04

were able to send two hundred and seventy five thousand pounds of goods.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:09

Just for the asking.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:12

And that in turn did something to us, so when we were able when we could have returned.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:19

We said no, we are going to stay now, and so we became American citizens.

Presenter27:23

How many of you spoke English when you first went to America?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:26

Some of the older children had a little basic school English, which doesn't help because I remember in one of the books it said a grandmother is lying under the sofa. I don't know why and I don't know what it did. But these sentences don't help much in

Presenter27:38

Oh, we know how to do it.

Presenter27:42

The ascent

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:44

con conversational English, you know. I didn't know anything.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:49

Nothing whatsoever.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:51

I had to pick it up.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:52

That's the best way to to learn a language.

Presenter27:54

And of course you sang American songs too, did you? You had to learn those. Not me.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp27:58

Not many, no. We sing some folk songs.

Presenter28:01

Uh

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:01

But mostly we sang Latin and German.

Presenter28:04

During the war were some of the boys drafted into the American Army.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:07

Yeah, both of them, Rupert and the the the tenor and the bass.

Presenter28:11

Yes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:11

And for a gruesome moment we thought this is the end of it, now we can't sing.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:16

But there was Father Wasner, I told you, music on, walking around on two legs, uh making different settings for a woman's choir and one man's voice, his.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:27

And the American people took that very naturally. See, that was self explanatory, the war edition of the Trump Family Singers.

Presenter28:35

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:35

And so we went right on.

Presenter28:37

Singing?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:37

and collecting.

Presenter28:39

What did your husband do? Was he your manager?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:41

He came with us he was a backstage man, you know.

Presenter28:44

Yes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:44

And

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:47

It was very important.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:49

And he he sustained us especially with his equanimity when the waves of emotions went.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:56

Hi.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp28:57

And the soprano blamed the alto, and the alto blamed the tenor.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp29:01

And then came the father and said, Now sit down and be quiet.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp29:04

Record number five, please. What next?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp29:08

And that fits to our situation in life. You see, the Neugeriga means the curious one. And we certainly were curious what what is going to happen to us next. The Neugeriga this is a a song. A song by sung by Lotte Lehmann. It's Schubert. Schubert.

Speaker 429:31

Each frog a coin a broom.

Speaker 429:37

It's for longer kind of stay.

Speaker 429:49

Vor si jour fel.

Speaker 429:57

Each means your kind gift.

Speaker 430:02

Die Sterstur.

Speaker 430:09

Find the shine be rich for

Presenter30:22

The Schubert song Der Neugerige, sung once again by Lotte Lehmann.

Presenter30:27

All during the war, the Trapp family singers traveled through the United States and

Presenter30:32

Latin America, too.

Presenter30:34

And then back to you or to

Presenter30:36

Now, as the years went by, some of the children were

Presenter30:40

Grown up, I suppose they began to drift away and get married. Now, you couldn't replace them. It had to be the Trapp family, didn't it?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp30:46

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp30:47

Well, first we swindled a little bit, you see, when a soprano got married we adopted a soprano.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp30:54

And I just with one sweeping gesture I said my family, you see, and didn't go into details.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp30:59

And it got difficult uh when the tenor got married.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:04

So I persuaded his darling little wife to come along.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:07

which she did and she darned our stockings.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:10

You can do that for a couple of years, but not for too long. And that was the beginning of the end.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:16

A perfect end for a family choir, you know.

Presenter31:18

The family kept together, but the choir had to disband.

Presenter31:23

But you continued travelling, you went to all sorts of places, you went off to New Guinea.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:27

Yeah, we had intended to start a lay mission organization.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:32

Because my children three of my children, Maria, Rosemary and

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:37

Johannes.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:38

Went to New Guinea on a mission station.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:42

and did some wonderful work there.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:44

and I went there to visit them.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:46

and I travelled all over the islands.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:49

To see what can be done. And we had intended to.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:54

Start a lay mission organization to help the professional missionaries, you see.

Presenter31:58

As

Baroness Maria Von Trapp31:59

in their work.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:01

But it was too it was too impossible. We couldn't do it.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:05

So we had to drop that.

Presenter32:07

So what did you do? You ran a music school for a while I knew

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:10

Know that.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:11

Well, in the summer it is a a music camp.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:14

None of us has ever been in a camp. We didn't know what that is. But every born American sooner or later ends up in a camp for the summer, you know.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:24

So we finally started a music camp.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:27

Father Vazna

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:29

Taught the singing.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:30

Maria taught playing the recorder.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:34

and I to go with the folk dancing.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:36

And it was a great success and people came streaming from all sides until we stopped singing and everything, you see, then the camp stopped too.

Presenter32:47

I think it's time we had another record. Watch number six.

Presenter32:50

In Diesen Heiligen Hohen. That's from the Magic Float again, isn't it?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:54

That's from the magic flute, sung by Richard Meyer.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp32:59

And I hope I really hope that goose flesh will appear on everybody's.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp33:06

Better school splash appeared.

Presenter33:07

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp33:07

Yeah.

Presenter33:07

Olive

Baroness Maria Von Trapp33:07

All over. At least it is so gorgeously beautiful.

Speaker 433:46

God mentioned

Speaker 433:56

Yeah.

Presenter34:06

In Diesen Heilgen Hallen from The Magic Flute, once again sung by Rickard Meyer.

Presenter34:12

Baroness, you discovered you had talent as a writer, and you wrote the story of the Track Faith singers. Good.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp34:21

I was the one who made the announcements in the concerts. And once in the see, in the beginning we had some very solemn dresses, white silk with a black bodice with golden embroidery.

Speaker 134:33

Uh

Speaker 434:33

Uh

Baroness Maria Von Trapp34:35

And during intermission we changed into this, you see, into our Austrian clothes. And once in Philadelphia we to our horror we noticed we had forgotten the suitcase with the Austrian dresses in the hotel. So my husband had to rush back downtown to get those

Baroness Maria Von Trapp34:52

In Philadelphia, in good weather, you can hardly ever get a taxi. In bad weather, you can never get a taxi, and it was bad weather.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:00

It rained.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:02

It port

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:03

So I knew that we had to

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:05

Play on time.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:07

which meant we dragged out the first part of the concert

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:10

until the people didn't clap any more.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:14

That was a new experience, and I started now telling stories.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:18

And I'm good at that. That's one thing I can do.

Presenter35:21

I had noticed.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:23

And so I told them stories and they were perfectly happy and

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:28

And in the middle of the third, I think, story

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:31

I heard the

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:33

The clearing of the throat. And I stopped. I stopped and said, and now I'm going to tell you why I told you stories.

Presenter35:35

And that's it.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:41

We forgot the suitcase. We'll be back just a little more patience, we'll be back right away.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:47

After that concert.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:49

A gentleman came and said to me, If you can tell stories like this, you can also write a book.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp35:55

I'm a publisher, Lippincard. It's a famous name. It is indeed. I'm Bertold Lippincart. I'm going to send you a

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:03

Contract

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:04

And I thought he is absolutely out of his mind. He's crazy. I've never written a thing in my life. I'm not going to start now.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:11

And we went through

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:13

receiving contracts and throwing them away.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:17

Four times until we were finally back from our concert two at home in Vermont.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:23

And one day a car drove up.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:26

Out came mister Lippincott, misses Lippincott, and two little Lippincotts.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:31

And mister Lippingcott said, Here we are, and here we stay until you sign that contract.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:37

which made me so mad.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:39

Then I said to our secretary, Hester, come on, we show that

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:44

I hardly ever use the word guy, but only when I'm really below zero in my appreciation of somebody.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:51

We show that guy that I can't do it.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:53

And went upstairs into my room and I walked up and down I was so

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:57

Furious

Baroness Maria Von Trapp36:59

and dictated what is now the first chapter of my book, and hasn't been changed.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:04

handed it in and said Here

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:06

Uh

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:07

And then he talked

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:10

sensing to me. And I finally finished that book

Presenter37:14

and the sequel, The Trap Family on Wheels.

Presenter37:17

And a couple of other books. In fact, the Trapp Family Singers, you you sold to a German film company, made a very successful German film.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:23

Yeah, it's not familiar.

Presenter37:25

Since then there's been a stage version.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:27

Number one.

Presenter37:27

An American film version that hasn't done badly either.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:30

The sound of music.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:34

Yeah.

Presenter37:34

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:34

I we never made money because I was too stupid for having a a lawyer in time. I got a lawyer ten years later, you see, and he just looked me deep in the eye and said

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:44

We're a little late.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:46

So you cannot change a contract which you have signed ten years before.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:50

Yeah. So we hardly got anything.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:53

But I really say this now solemnly and loudly and distinctly.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp37:59

That many, many times with in our life, you see, where we mingle with the great, I saw.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:06

How difficult it is

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:09

to be very rich and very good.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:11

You are one or the other.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:14

And God took over, you see, and avoid it.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:18

The Getting Very Rich part.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:21

We never made it, you see, we always had to work, and it was good.

Presenter38:26

We got to record number seven.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:29

The record number seven is called Ungedold, Impatience, and that is the subtitle of my Life.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:35

I always was, aim, and ever shall be impatient.

Presenter38:41

And who's going to sing this?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp38:42

Lotte lemon.

Presenter38:43

That comes as no surprise.

Speaker 439:18

Holy suit, he's a family.

Presenter39:41

Schubert's song Ungedult, Impatience, sung by Lotter Lehmann.

Presenter39:46

Now, obviously, Baroness, you're a very enterprising lady, and I'm sure you could cope with the problems of life on a desert island. You could look after yourself.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp39:54

It's a new world.

Presenter39:54

Good one

Baroness Maria Von Trapp39:55

That's it. Enterprising

Presenter39:55

Uh

Presenter39:56

Enterprising, someone who is capable. Well, I'd better be. You'd better be. After all, you've you've lived in a music camp. You could rig up some sort of shelter. Oh, if need be, yes. And have you ever done any fishing? No, I haven't done any fishing. I'm not going to. Can you cultivate? Are you good at gardening? Have you green fingers?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:15

Yeah, I'm good I'm good at gardening.

Presenter40:17

Write a vegetarian diet. Would you try to escape?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:20

Hmm.

Presenter40:20

Will you try to build a boat?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:22

Not that I would not. No, I'd rather swim.

Presenter40:26

Well, I shouldn't try that. You just sit there and play your records, and uh we'll try and get you off.

Presenter40:32

Now your eighth record, your last record, what's that to be?

Presenter40:36

First Brandenburg Concerto by Bach. Why'd you choose that?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:39

as a counterpoint to Mozart.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:42

See there's this beautiful, very, very emotional really.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:46

I don't want to use the word sentimental, you see, it is it is so full of heart.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:51

See and Bach is full of head.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:54

and both together are a great combination.

Presenter40:57

Yeah.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp40:58

And so we have to insert at the end, you see, as a consoling prize, a little head after all the heart.

Presenter41:34

The opening of the first Brandenburg Concerto by Johann Sebastian Bach, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Herbert von Karian.

Presenter41:43

Now if you could only take one record.

Presenter41:46

and not the whole eight that you've played, which one would you choose?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp41:50

The Brandenburg concerto.

Presenter41:52

The Bach.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp41:53

The Bachelor

Presenter41:53

Right. And you're allowed to take with you to the island one luxury, one article, one object of no practical use.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:02

I would choose that beautiful statue three hundred years old,

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:06

of the Madonna and Child

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:08

which emanates so much consolation and it's a happy making thing.

Presenter42:14

Where did you find it?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:15

Oh, we always had it, you see. It is a an heirloom.

Presenter42:17

Right. And you can take just one book to the island. You already have planted there, the Bible and Shakespeare. Would you like to choose one more?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:27

I have a book

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:28

I had a book.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:30

and I hope to get it again.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:33

which was a a big selection of true, funny stories from well known people. It got you into a good mood to see you smiled your way through the whole book. What was it called? Yeah, that's what I don't remember.

Presenter42:47

Is it in English or in English?

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:48

It's in German.

Presenter42:49

Ah. Well, we'll have to send out a search party. We'll find it for you somehow. And thank you, Baroness Maria von Trapp, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Baroness Maria Von Trapp42:59

Thank you so much for having me here. I've never had an interview like this. I enjoyed it hugely.

Presenter43:05

I'm delighted. Thank you very much.

Speaker 143:31

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.