Thomas Allen

Thomas Allen0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Thomas Allen0:05

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1982, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

Our castaway this week is a singer, the baritone Thomas Allen. Tom, have you ever imagined yourself as a Robinson Crusoe? Not until uh being invited onto this programme. It's it's something that you hope will never happen to you, I suppose. How well do you think you could endure loneliness?

Presenter0:47

Reasonably well. I've had a fair amount of experience of it, although it it's for a timed duration generally of going away and spending time abroad in small hotel rooms and uh being on one's own is is very much a part of of a singer's life, but rather different from uh sitting all day on a desert island beach under a palm tree. What would you be happiest to have got away from?

Presenter1:09

Hard work, probably.

Presenter1:11

I find myself working rather hard these days. So there might be a respite from that. Did you find it very difficult to choose just eight discs for isolation? Yes, I did. I did it in a panic finally. I thought I was going to give myself lots and lots of time with lots of forethought. And finally, I did it very hurriedly. And now I think I've chosen eight wrong discs, but um I hope not. The stir time. It's it's a very difficult problem to do. But uh w one thing I did want to ask before we go any further is do I have

Thomas Allen1:33

Daily.

Presenter1:40

The whole disc to take with me, or just the not just the excerpt that we chose. No, no, no, no, you'll have the whole disc. That's fine, because then you have a wealth of music in that case on most of these things. What's the first one you have there?

Thomas Allen1:43

No, no, no, no.

Presenter1:50

The first one I've chosen is a piece of an English composer Parry, and it's the anthem I Was Glad.

Presenter1:57

This brings back, I suppose, early days of being in church choir and that kind of background that I had and being English as well, I suppose, there seems nothing more English than the rousing sound of the start of this anthem.

Presenter3:04

Patty's anthem I WAS GLAD

Presenter3:07

Recorded in the chapel of King's College, Cambridge, and conducted by Philip Ledger.

Presenter3:12

You're from the North East, I believe. Yes, I am, Durham. A mining family? Most of the family, yes. We're all from a a mining town called Seaham Harbour, which is near Sunderland. Uh my father actually wasn't a miner. He was about to be, and then um a job was offered him elsewhere in in the butcher's shop. So so he missed that by about two days. But most of the rest of the family, on my mother's side particularly, were miners. A musical family? My father played um a number of instruments, was always keen on music, uh learned the piano and uh organ and and taught himself uh one or two other little instruments. But the rest of them uh had no formal musical education, although quite a number on both sides of the family had um really very respectable singing voices. You said you were in the church choir. Was there a lot of music too at school?

Thomas Allen3:56

Blood

Presenter3:58

Yes, there was. The church choir uh we did a certain amount wi within that kind of a community, not to any great level, you know, of of accomplishment. Although it did offer me the opportunity of learning the organ when I was about ten, or starting to learn the organ at least. At school, yes, that was where the greatest influence was, I think. It was strong on its school choir and concerts, and that was where I got my first experience of singing as a solo baritone. And you were in at least one school play? I was in only one school play, but only just. I carried a ri You have done your research. I carried a rifle as uh a soldier in the Devil's Disciple, but I had no speaking part. Oh, bad luck. You sang in a few music festivals. How did you do?

Thomas Allen4:37

Hanging a few

Presenter4:40

Pretty well. The first one was at uh Reitnantain, or rather Reitnantain. That was one of the uh popular festivals in the North East. I entered

Presenter4:50

The first time, I think I was about sixteen and sang

Presenter4:53

Vulcan song from Philemoi Boussi or Philomon and Baucis or something I think I called at the time.

Thomas Allen4:56

Or filament.

Presenter4:59

And I sang this thing, uh which was designed for a mature singer of at least uh fifty years of age. I sang this and was highly commended, uh was runner up or something against uh a lot of chaps much older than myself, who was this young kid that s stood up to sing. I did quite well really. I think the following year I I won that class.

Thomas Allen5:16

I think the f

Presenter5:19

What did you want to be? Did it ever enter your mind that you could be a professional singer? Not then. I just thought it was rather a novelty that I could sing and have that kind of success in a festival, I think, at that time, and then I started to sing in one or two small local concerts around about.

Presenter5:35

But no, I initially I wanted to be an architect. I had a fairly artistic uh leaning and uh was always very keen on drawing and painting and such like. But early on in my school career I leaned towards science subjects. It was a very science orientated school. And the view was that I would then go into a university and medical school when the time came to leave.

Presenter5:58

And right at the last moment I had a a change of heart. What gave you that change of heart, do you know? I wish I could tell you. I I don't know. Probably success in uh music competitions, I don't know. I just had a desire to sing, and uh investigated the possibility of of doing that, and found out it might well be possible.

Presenter6:17

Let's have your second record.

Presenter6:20

Probably as a result of my arriving at college. I I had never heard of a guy called Mahler until I got there, and then I was confronted in the, I think, practically the first term I was at college, the Royal College in London, with uh the Symphony of a Thousand, the Eighth Symphony, which was a

Presenter6:36

Memorable experience. Anyhow, this particular record is the Fifth Symphony. I want to hear the adagietto of the Fifth Symphony, and conducted by Bernard Heiting.

Presenter7:46

The adagietto from Mahler's Fifth Symphony, the Concertge Bau Orchestra conducted by Bernard Heitink.

Presenter7:54

So you came south to London to study at the Royal College. What was your second subject? Organ.

Presenter8:00

I suppose most students would have taken piano or whatever else they may have studied, but I had studied the organ for quite some time by then and was very, very keen on learning the instrument. I used to spend hours in church practising the organ, so that was the choice when I got to college. There was an organ tradition in your family. Your grandfather built one, did you? Yes, he did, yes, yes. It was a great chapel family on my father's side. And uh my grandfather spent about forty years with his bedroom well, I mean it was a toss-up whether he would have a bed or an organ in his bedroom. And he had both in the end. He had a a huge um bellows-blown instrument. My grandmother used to pump up the bellows and he would play hymns on this thing. And it was a marvellous piece of work. It was all handmade. Handmade. He'd gathered up scraps of wood and bits of um paper. He made quite a few of the smaller pipes from um just wound, gummed brown paper, and tuned them himself and done various things. It was a it was a marvellous piece of work. You too like making things, don't you? You're good with your hands. Reasonably good, yes.

Presenter9:04

Yes, I make model railways and and uh all sorts of things occasionally. I think that's something I would look forward to on an island, maybe just turning my hand to if you could let me have a chisel or something like that, perhaps.

Presenter9:14

What?

Presenter9:15

Now you were a lyric barret, and what sort of music did you think at that time suited your voice best? Anything that Fischer Dieskar sang, I sang.

Presenter9:23

Did you have any ambition for opera? No. Initially I did, and that was before I got to college, and then I realized perhaps that that was something that was going to come much later in my life, if at all. Or like school plays, you did take part in one production, I believe, of the College of Community.

Thomas Allen9:37

And that's all yes.

Presenter9:45

I haven't sung it since. And I believe that excellent opera producer, Dennis Arundel, had some advice for you. Yes, he did. What did he say? I can't remember how many performances we did, but I know at the end of it he said, If you don't take up opera more seriously, you'll be a bloody fool. So I.

Speaker 210:00

So

Thomas Allen10:00

Oh

Presenter10:01

I don't know. Something was remembered from what he said, I think. Very sound. Your third record. I have to have some L Gar.

Presenter10:08

And out of all the Elgar, this has to be the representative piece. It's the dream of Garantius, and I particularly want to hear Helen Watts singing The Angels' Farewell.

Speaker 210:37

In my most lovely mold, I know.

Presenter11:18

Farewell from Elgar's The Dream of Garantius.

Presenter11:21

While you were at the Royal College, did you do any odd jobs for for pocket money?

Presenter11:26

Yes, during holidays I used to work uh with my father in a store in Sunderland. I loathed it. I think that determined me that I would never be able to hold down a nine to five office job or whatever. Uh but I used to do it, and it did provide me with some pocket money.

Presenter11:41

And then eventually you graduated. You were in the Gleinborn Chorus for a bit. I went yes. One of the first things I did when I left college was to go to I'd met by that time James Lockhart, who was recently appointed music director of the Welsh National. He gave me an audition through the proper uh channels for the company. They offered me the understudy of Figaro in The Marriage of Figaro and uh some understudies in their new production of Boris Godunov. The following January I in'69, I

Thomas Allen11:45

I win

Presenter12:14

sang one performance of Figaro and understudied some others and uh sang the role of the Marquis d'Obigny in Traviata. And uh th those were the first real uh professional engagements for me. You were very inexperienced. You hadn't worked with the opera class. I mean you had to deal with the

Thomas Allen12:27

Yeah.

Thomas Allen12:28

Yeah.

Presenter12:33

Difficulties like making up. Yes, yes. I I had no idea how to make up. In fact, I remember being in a room and the uh assistant producer having to come in and and and rub.

Presenter12:43

make up sticks, you know, grease sticks into my hands and and mold them together and put them on my face. I had no idea. I just didn't know one bit of the business. And I was learning it right from uh grass roots. The whiskers stayed on, all right? At that time, yes.

Presenter12:55

You were already married at this time. Yes, I was married in um heavens March of the nineteen sixty eight, whilst I was still a student. Is your wife a musician? No, she's not. She's a very good cook and keeps me healthy.

Thomas Allen12:57

Done.

Thomas Allen13:02

One

Presenter13:08

Good. Your fourth record. Fourth record is a wonderful voice. I just have to hear this voice. It's a recording of the four serious songs of Brahms, and I want to hear the third song, O tot, O Tot, Vi Bita Bistu, sung by Alexander Kipnis.

Speaker 213:35

Yeah

Presenter14:27

One of the four serious songs by Broms Alexander Kipnis with Gerald Moore at the piano. How long were you with the Welsh National Opera?

Presenter14:37

I spent three years there uh three very lucrative seasons. They were very beneficial to me. Apart from the Mozart parts, what did you say? I had my first christening into a a a verdi roll of any any substance that was Paolo in Simone Bocanegra.

Presenter14:53

And various other things. Uh I had a great grounding in Labo M there, which has stood me in good stead ever since. What else? Billy Budd, of course. Billy Budd. Your first Billy Budd. Yes, yes.

Thomas Allen15:00

Your first really bad. Yes, mm yes.

Presenter15:02

I suppose other than the uh the first Papagin or the billy bard was the great thing for me there.

Presenter15:08

When did you make your debut at the Royal Opera House?

Presenter15:11

As far as I remember, that was in'seventy one, in Billy Budd again, singing the part of Donald. And I think around the same time I sang Patroclus in King Priam as well. You've sung the title role in Billy Budd many times, haven't you? Since then I have, yes. It's still, despite everything, it it still remains my favourite role. I tried to tot up the number of performances I've given to date, and I think it works out it's something approaching forty now, which which I think isn't bad for a a fairly rare opera like Bud.

Presenter15:40

And for the first time, of course, at Covent Garden you were singing in the original languages. That's right, yes. I found that quite a barrier, I have to say. The biggest barrier I do remember was learning the recitative of of the marriage of Figaro for Gleinborn in in seventy four.

Presenter15:54

Mozart recitative and well, recitative in general in the original language had been beyond me, it seemed, previous to that, but I I I learnt from example and from Joshua hard work that it was just a question of getting down to it and learning it. Of course the the the lack of any knowledge of the Italian language didn't help either, but uh I've overcome that in the subsequent years I think.

Presenter16:16

You were under contract.

Presenter16:17

at Cotton Garden for what, six years? Five, I think. You've been careful, as far as possible, to absorb roles gradually. You you've built your career carefully. Well, I don't know whether I have. I think that's just the way it's happened. But I I've always taken a

Presenter16:30

uh a fairly

Presenter16:32

Careful approach, a wary approach to overdevelopment too soon.

Speaker 216:36

Good.

Presenter16:37

I could have allowed myself to be ruined totally by now if some of the offers had that had been made to me I'd accepted some years ago. But I've I've treaded fairly warily, and I think it's proved worth while.

Speaker 216:45

Yeah.

Thomas Allen16:45

Yeah.

Presenter16:49

Record number five.

Presenter16:51

Beethoven has to be with me, and as a small token of representation for him I've chosen the triple concerto, with a formidable line up of Oestrak, Rostropovich, Richter, and conducted by Karian.

Speaker 217:57

Yeah.

Presenter18:09

An extract from the Beethoven Triple Concerta with Oustrach, Rostropovich, Richter, and Herbert von Karian conducting the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter18:19

Now, Tom, you left Covent Garden in'seventy eight in search of other fields to conquer, but you rejoined the company the following year for that celebrated Far East tour. Where did you go? Oh, we we went to

Thomas Allen18:28

A way to go.

Presenter18:30

Seoul, South Korea, and then on after I think we were there for about ten days, something like that, and then on to Tokyo and Osaka in Japan. And it was absolutely memorable. And the reception? Tremendous, tremendous. Particularly the Koreans. I loved being in Korea. They were such wonderful people. My heart bleeds for them now and for what's happened since.

Presenter18:53

I have so many memories of it. They were so kind to us. Doctor Kim, the the uh proprietor of the newspaper out there that sponsored the Korean end of the journey, saw that we were looked after so well. Uh the the the young people that met us before and after the performances at the stage door of the Cultural Center were so enthusiastic and so keen to to meet us and give us little presents. It was a it was one of those great memorable occasions. Which operas did you give them?

Thomas Allen19:18

Which

Presenter19:20

There were three operas concerned in the trip, as far as I remember. Peter Grimes, uh Magic Flute and Tosca. And I I was there principally for Papagheno in the Magic Flute. And the the audiences had done some work before, didn't you? They had. I was led to believe I think we've all been led to believe that Japan has made great strides into Western music. I I think they weren't quite prepared for the Peter Grimes. It came as a bit of a surprise to them.

Thomas Allen19:33

But how?

Presenter19:43

But uh I've no doubt by now they're probably churning out their own versions.

Presenter19:48

Yes, yes, I can see that. Oh, some other highlights. For whom did you sing Eugene O'Negin? For Welsh National Opera. Yes. That was a wonderful production by uh the Roumanian Andrei Scherban.

Presenter20:01

It's the only place I've actually sung uh on Jaegen so far. And some other roles that you've especially enjoyed?

Presenter20:07

Oh, I've been very lucky. Uh I am very lucky. I make it sound as though I've um I've left it all behind me. Uh Peleas in Pellias in Melisande. The Billy Bud, of course. Don Giovanni is very memorable and very uh strong in the memory now from Gleinborn. In fact, it won't go away. It haunts me all the time. Uh w w I'm I'm forgetting so many. The Count oh, The Count with Karl Bohrm at at Covent Garden some few years ago, which was which was a great occasion. And then last year my debut at The Met with the old production of The Magic Flute singing Papageno. That was ag again something that I shan't forget in a hurry. And now War and Peace. In Brokofiev's opera. Yes.

Presenter20:51

Some years ago I heard um and and saw this production of Colin Graham's at the Coliseum and uh was absolutely bowled over by it and I feel very privileged that it's being uh revived now and uh and that I'm actually fortunate enough to take part in it. And at the Coliseum you don't have to learn it in Russia. Indeed.

Presenter21:10

Any strange or hilarious occasions, you remember.

Presenter21:15

There are two moments that that that uh that do always stick in my mind when I think of uh strange happenings on stage.

Presenter21:22

I remember in a performance of Faust at Covent Garden a few years ago now, we had a a chap singing the the part of Mephistopheles, who was a little eccentric. And during the uh chorus in which we we we all hold up our swords, and he suffers under the signs of these crosses all arranged around him, this particular guy crawled downstage and

Presenter21:45

Overhung the apron of the stage on this particular occasion, hanging over the the prompt box. And just as a

Presenter21:52

Daft thing to say, one of the cast said You ought to try going into the prompt box instead one night.

Presenter21:58

And the following performance I actually saw, for the first time, a singer crawl into the prompt box from the stage, head first. Um there was a prompter in there who closed his book, put out the light, and this man disappeared up to about his uh oh, below the waist somewhere. All I saw were a pair of feet finally, and he had to extricate himself and then continue the performance. Quite why he did it, I don't know.

Presenter22:23

Is he coming back, you asked yourself? Actually the the worst incident that I uh or rather the one of the more frightening things that I've done was was being late for a a queue on stage and having to run this was at Gleinbourn a few years ago having to run from the dressing room to the wings and straight on stage to sing a recitative and the harpsichordist is going up and down scales and playing scarlett concertos by this time, you know.

Speaker 322:24

Putting it.

Thomas Allen22:25

But

Thomas Allen22:31

Yeah.

Presenter22:52

And then getting there and thinking, Oh my god, I've made a mistake, I'm not supposed to be on at all You know, uh that that did happen once, and that's frightening. Very terrifying, music.

Speaker 223:00

Vetted

Thomas Allen23:00

Teddy

Speaker 223:01

Fine.

Presenter23:02

Another record. I'm fascinated by the quality of the human voice at any time and uh this particular human voice and this particular person.

Presenter23:12

Laurence Olivier means rather a lot, and uh it's old hat, I know, and rather hackneyed, but I want to hear a section of Henry the Fifth, and particularly the Crispian speech.

Speaker 223:14

means rather

Speaker 323:25

This day is called the Feast of Crispian.

Speaker 323:30

He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, Will stand a tiptoe when this day is named, And rouse him at the name of Crispian.

Speaker 323:39

He that shall live this day and see old age will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours and say to morrow is St. Crispian.

Speaker 323:49

Then will he strip his sleeve, and show his scars, and say

Speaker 323:52

These wounds I had on Crispin's Day

Presenter23:56

Laurence Olivier as Henry the Fifth.

Presenter23:59

We've been talking mainly about, in fact, entirely about the operatic side of your career. How about the concert platform? Do you think that's equally important?

Presenter24:07

It's very difficult to say that it's equally important because the very nature of opera is is a time consuming business. You have to be in a place for three, four weeks rehearsing and then for another two weeks, three weeks, whatever it is, giving those performances that you've been working towards. And so it does eat up an awful lot of time. And I do love being on stage and so you just have to accept that that is the condition by which you work. But I I think I've

Presenter24:32

overdone it really in in past years to the uh detriment of my concert career and I do enjoy giving concerts very much and uh we're in the process of putting that to right now. You're spending quite a lot of time these days recording.

Presenter24:45

Yes, a fair amount. I I quite enjoy recording. Uh although I don't listen to myself when I've done it. I I can't stand that. But um

Speaker 224:52

Yeah.

Presenter24:53

It's a difficult medium, I find, and and not always one that has everything to do with our everyday work, uh on stage or on a concert platform. I think sometimes it's too far removed from it, the uh technicalities of recording. But it's it's an important thing, and uh it's a it's a privilege to be asked, of course, naturally.

Presenter25:12

Let's get back to music. While we're talking about music, let's get back to hearing it. What's record number seven?

Thomas Allen25:14

Mm.

Presenter25:19

A little while back I recorded two pieces of Delius with um with Eric Fenby as part of the um Fenby Legacy, pieces that Fenby had been associated with at the end of Delius's life. I don't want to hear those, thank you, but I would like to hear um an old recording of Barbara Ollie's of the Walk to the Paradise Garden.

Presenter26:40

Part of The Walk Through the Paradise Garden by Delias.

Presenter26:44

Sir John Barbie Raleigh conducting the London Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter26:48

Are you an outdoor man, Tom? How are you going to manage on this island? Were you a Boy Scout? No, I wasn't. I went to the Cub Hut, or whatever it was called, one one evening, I remember, and I was ignored. Oh, no. Yes, they ignored me, and I n I never went back.

Thomas Allen27:00

Yeah.

Speaker 227:00

But yes.

Thomas Allen27:00

Uh

Presenter27:02

No, the nearest I got to that was the Church Lads' Brigade, which is why I was a soldier in the Devil's Disciple, because I was I was able to march. And I played the big drum in the Church Lads' Brigade. But I am an outdoor person, I think, yes. You could look after yourself fairly well, you could fend for yourself.

Speaker 227:11

Yeah.

Thomas Allen27:11

Uh

Presenter27:16

I think probably I could, yes, yes. Ever done any fishing? That useful. That wouldn't bother me. Can you cook?

Presenter27:24

Yes, yeah, I have to be able to cook to a certain extent when I'm away, so I I could do something. I could always eat raw fish, of course. I've been to Japan.

Presenter27:31

And brought up on the coast, so you should know a bit about boats. I love looking at boats, and I have a boat. What sort of boat? I've I've got a a sort of thirteen-foot dinghy, an Enterprise, which is lovely. I I don't spend very much time in it.

Thomas Allen27:43

Yeah.

Presenter27:44

Well, in ponds mainly. Or wh wherever I can wherever I can put it in the water. But having said that, I'm very lazy and I've not taken any instruction. I sail purely by the seat of my pants and it's a bit sometimes a bit hair raising, but I enjoy it. I I I do love boats. I mean I really would like to have a very

Speaker 227:47

Where wherever I can

Thomas Allen27:48

Uh

Presenter28:01

Nice boat one day. So you might take a chance and try to escape. No chance, no. No, I might go round the island and back, but that's about it. I bought a book on navigational exercises years ago, but I haven't actually opened it yet. Hm. But maybe I'll look at that before the time comes. I should. Your last record.

Presenter28:19

I have to have some Mozart, I suppose.

Presenter28:23

Why do I say I suppose? Uh he's everywhere in my life, is Mozart, so and is a very important part of it. But I don't want to hear any um any singing, I just want to hear Jack Primer playing uh the clarinet concerto under Beecham.

Presenter29:36

The closing passage of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto in A major, Jack Brimer, with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beacham.

Presenter29:45

If you could take only one disk of the Hupletis, which would it be?

Presenter29:49

Beethoven, the Beethoven triple concert yes.

Presenter29:53

And you're allowed to take one luxury to the island, one object of no practical use.

Presenter29:58

Could I have a bag of golf clubs? Yes, of course. And uh some balls. Yes. And then if nothing else, I mean if I was there a long time I thought I could hack down a few trees and make a small course. And the way the golf business is developing now, I could probably become a millionaire on that little island in a few years. Yes, yes. You never know. Right, yeah. Well. And I could practice with my wedge on the beach and things like that. We'll sign you up for television when you get back. And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare, which are provided for every castaway. They're wonderful to have. I'm I'd be very happy to have those. And uh the other thing this just goes to show how English bound I am is uh Charlotte Bronte Jane Hare.

Thomas Allen30:25

The

Presenter30:35

Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte. And thank you, Thomas Allen, for letting us hear your Desert Island Disc.

Thomas Allen30:36

Blash

Presenter30:41

Great pleasure. I think I've chosen eight entirely wrong records.

Presenter30:47

Well, I'm afraid it's too late to change your mind on this occasion. Oh, well. Goodbye, everyone.

Thomas Allen31:17

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.