Rt Hon. George Thomas

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music, the programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty two, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

Our castaway this week is the Speaker of the House of Commons, the Right Honourable George Thomas, MP.

Presenter0:38

mister Speaker, you're a Welshman, so I assume that music plays a big part in your life, does it?

Rt Hon. George Thomas0:43

Uh

Rt Hon. George Thomas0:43

From my early youth I've grown up with choral music. Great emphasis on choral music in Wales, although we are now very proud of our orchestra, our national orchestra, but the main emphasis in every village and valley.

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:00

Is the choir. Do you sing?

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:03

Well, I used to sing in the chapel choir in Tonapandi Methodist Chapel, but uh

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:09

I enjoy music. Do you play an instrument?

Presenter1:11

I

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:12

No, I play the piano one finger, with the tunes that I know. Do you play records a lot, ordinarily?

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:18

No, but I listen a lot. I I like hearing them, but I have to confess I haven't got a recorder. So I I must get one.

Presenter1:28

That's a very good reason for not playing Breakoff.

Presenter1:31

What's the first one you've chosen?

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:33

Well, recently, very recently, I paid an official visit to the uh Netherlands Parliament and I went to a delightful town

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:43

Maastricht in Limburg, in Holland, and the choir sang for me the Hallelujah chorus. I would like to hear that, because it inspired me.

Presenter1:54

And you would like to hear it sung by that choir.

Rt Hon. George Thomas1:56

But

Speaker 22:06

Don't know anything about it.

Presenter2:56

The choir of Maestricht in the Netherlands singing the Hallelujah chorus.

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:01

What about

Presenter3:02

Else.

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:03

Realborn.

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:04

I was born in Portalbert, but all my family were born in the Rhonda. I belong to the Rhonda.

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:12

My mother and father were born there. I grew up there, but

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:16

Naturally I respect and I love Port Albert because that's where I was born. But I'm a Rhonda man. You come from a mining family? Yes, my father was a miner. My brother was a miner. My poor brother, Emris, he had uh nine years suffering with his chest because the dust had got on to his lungs, and he had a very terrible death through it.

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:40

All my friends, whom we call butters in New South Wales, my friends were working down the pit.

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:46

And I was the lucky one.

Presenter3:48

Well sure first

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:50

No, it wasn't. My mother's family had moved in during the Industrial Revolution from

Rt Hon. George Thomas3:58

Grandpa from Hampshire, my grandmother from Somerset.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:02

They settled in Tonipandi in the eighteen seventies. Tonipandi is a mining town in industrial South Wales.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:10

And

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:11

My father

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:13

His first language was Welsh, my grandmother, whom we call Mum Guy in Welsh.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:20

She couldn't speak English at all.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:22

She had one word.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:24

Dumb.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:25

That was the only English word she knew, but I had to talk Welsh to her. So I've got a lot of Welsh.

Speaker 24:26

That was the only

Speaker 24:29

Yeah.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:32

in me, and I was ten years old when she died. She still didn't speak any English. She came from Carmarthenshire.

Presenter4:39

Was it an early resolve of yours that you weren't going down the pit?

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:43

It was an early resolve of my mother's and my brother, my eldest brother who was down. He helped uh to make sure that I was able to go to the secondary school.

Rt Hon. George Thomas4:54

And later they all contributed. I had a stepfather who contributed to help me.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:00

along with the British Legion, who gave me a grant of fifty pounds.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:05

to go to college in Southampton.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:07

But it was the hope of every parent in Wales in those days that their children would not have to go down the pit.

Presenter5:15

What was your ambition? What did you want to do?

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:17

I wanted to be a Methodist minister.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:20

I felt if God was calling me for it but when I told my mother, she says, Well, it may well be, George, and if it is

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:26

Doors will open. We may have to push, but they'll open. Well, they never did.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:32

And I trained as a teacher, which I also felt called to ministry. I taught.

Presenter5:36

Where do you

Speaker 15:36

Come on.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:38

Before I went to college as an uncertificated teacher I taught in Dagenham in Essex.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:44

When I came out of college I taught for a short while, a few months, at the Elephant and Castle, just around the corner of the old Kent Road.

Rt Hon. George Thomas5:54

And then I went down to Cardiff, where I taught until uh I was elected to Parliament.

Presenter6:00

Well, your political career we'll talk about in a moment. Let's have your second record. What's that to be?

Rt Hon. George Thomas6:06

Well, after having that opening, chorus.

Rt Hon. George Thomas6:10

I would love a lovely, sweet Welsh tune, Mavanway, and there is a record of a thousand Welsh male boys choir singing in the Royal Albert Hall.

Rt Hon. George Thomas6:22

We're very proud in Wales that they did it.

Rt Hon. George Thomas6:25

This includes so many choirs from Wales, and I'd love to have it, please. Mavanui.

Presenter7:32

Mivanwi A Thousand Welsh male voices singing in the Royal Albert Hall.

Presenter7:37

What was your first introduction to politics?

Rt Hon. George Thomas7:40

When my mother

Rt Hon. George Thomas7:42

who influenced my life a great deal.

Rt Hon. George Thomas7:44

She joined the Cooperative Women's Guild in nineteen fifteen.

Rt Hon. George Thomas7:49

And as she came home and told us, Well, that was the beginning of a new world for her, and if I only knew it, for me, because she became a district speaker for them, moving around.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:00

and I used to go around with her.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:02

And naturally.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:04

In the Rhonda Valley, when I was growing up, in those cruel years of the Depression, you were either Labour or Communist. Well, because I was Chapel, I was Labour.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:14

It's as simple as that.

Presenter8:16

You were right wing.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:18

That's right, absolutely I was.

Presenter8:19

Please have one

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:21

We still

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:22

But in that valley, you see, there was a clear line.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:26

I was taught at home and in chapel that the road to a better life was through Parliament. Always it was drilled into us. Not violence, but worked through Parliament. It's in my blood to this very day. And when you were teaching in the Elephant and Castle, I believe you used to queue for the public galleries. I used to go down, you're quite right. I lived in Brixton, Cold Harbor Lynn.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:51

I used to walk down because I didn't have the bus fare.

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:54

I used to walk down to Parlem, and join the queue outside,

Rt Hon. George Thomas8:58

Sit in that gallery,'twas the cheapest and the best show in London.

Presenter9:03

Uh

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:03

Yeah.

Presenter9:03

Uh

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:03

Uh

Presenter9:03

Yeah.

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:04

Even

Presenter9:06

In due course, which constituency did you contest?

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:09

Cardiff Central in nineteen forty five and then there was a reorganization of the boundaries. But three fifths of Cardiff Central were merged into a seat called Cardiff West, which is my present seat.

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:23

So I've represented

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:25

three fifths of them since nineteen forty five. Did you get in the first time? Yes, to my great surprise I did. I I was not expecting to. It was a seat that I won.

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:36

And I really was overwhelmed at the thought that I walked in through Palace Yard.

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:45

I can't tell you the thrill. I still get excited, mind going in there. I've never lost that, because I think Mr. Gladstone, Disraeli, all of them.

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:54

were so thrilled to be Members of Parliament.

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:57

And that house.

Rt Hon. George Thomas9:59

The whole world respects it.

Presenter10:01

And when

Rt Hon. George Thomas10:01

Yeah. When did you first take senior office? Nineteen sixty four. Long time waiting, wasn't I? Nineteen years before I had office, my first job was a junior minister in the Home Office. Oh, I loved it. I was so excited. Then uh I moved to Minister of State in the Welsh Office. From there to become Minister of State in the Commonwealth Office. That was my favorite job of all.

Rt Hon. George Thomas10:30

And then Secretary of State for Wales in the Cabinet.

Presenter10:34

Did you continue your work?

Rt Hon. George Thomas10:36

Yeah. Because

Presenter10:36

The lay preacher

Rt Hon. George Thomas10:38

Oh, always, when I was elected to Parliament I had to ask myself, will I stop being a local preacher?

Rt Hon. George Thomas10:45

Because, like everybody else, I had a dread of people thinking I wanted to make votes out of my religion.

Rt Hon. George Thomas10:52

Now that holds back a lot of people, especially the English members, mind.

Rt Hon. George Thomas10:56

I think it's a little different for us both in Wales and in Scotland, where we talk freer and easier about our religion.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:04

I respect that deep English reserve.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:07

But I decided I was called to be a preacher before I was called to be an MP.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:13

And I'm glad I continued.

Speaker 211:15

Yeah.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:15

Right.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:16

Your third record, please. Well, it's bound to be about my home valley.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:22

You will have gathered by now the Welsh are very clannish.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:25

And I grew up in the Rhonda, and there's a lovely record which is sung by a Rhonda Valley choir, the Triote Mill Choir, A Valley Called the Rhonda.

Rt Hon. George Thomas11:37

It means more to me than words can say.

Speaker 211:47

We have a blessing.

Speaker 211:56

God's work is deep and strong.

Presenter12:12

The Triochi Male Choir are thereley called the Ronda.

Presenter12:17

Now is the Speaker of the House of Commons elected or appointed? How does it happen?

Rt Hon. George Thomas12:23

Elected by the House itself. Every party in the House has a meeting to decide.

Rt Hon. George Thomas12:29

Which name they would like to put forward.

Rt Hon. George Thomas12:32

Usually there is an understanding, and there was in my case.

Rt Hon. George Thomas12:36

And I followed Lord Selwyn Lloyd. He was Speaker Selwyn Lloyd, of course, when I followed him.

Rt Hon. George Thomas12:43

With the good will of all the House, I've been very fortunate. But the Speaker is elected and not appointed.

Presenter12:50

Now the Speaker is the the Chairman, as it were, of the proceedings. How ancient is the office?

Rt Hon. George Thomas12:56

It's over six hundred years old.

Rt Hon. George Thomas12:58

The Speaker is given great authority and power by the House. He's.

Rt Hon. George Thomas13:04

Trusted to decide who speaks, she decides all points.

Presenter13:07

Prince of order. The uniform. You wear the wig and the gown and the black breeches. What does that garb signify? It it seems more legal than parliamentary.

Rt Hon. George Thomas13:16

It is parliamentary. It was the legal garb two hundred years ago, and it still is the legal garb. And of course most speakers have been lawyers. It used to be considered the thing that the speaker should be a lawyer.

Rt Hon. George Thomas13:33

Its only a handful of speakers in six hundred years have not belonged to the legal profession.

Presenter13:40

And I'm waiting for the m

Rt Hon. George Thomas13:41

But

Presenter13:42

You begin each sitting by entering in a small procession.

Rt Hon. George Thomas13:46

That's right.

Presenter13:47

Cries of hats off strangers, although very few people wear hats inside the house now.

Rt Hon. George Thomas13:53

With

Presenter13:53

No.

Rt Hon. George Thomas13:54

Went there in'forty-five, there were a handful, a hangover from the parliament before the war, who kept their hat on.

Speaker 213:58

Yeah.

Speaker 214:00

Yeah.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:01

Nowadays people would I think they'd be shocked if anyone could have their hat on in the chamber.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:07

Yeah.

Presenter14:07

Now you're the guardian of of liberty and rights. Inside the house you are superior even to the sovereign.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:13

Yeah.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:14

In the House I am the guardian of the liberties and rights of the High Court of Parliament.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:22

No one can take precedence in the House of Commons over that position. It is supreme.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:30

And all the country depends upon that place doing its work properly. Who was the last previous Welsh speaker?

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:38

Oh.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:39

There was one three hundred years ago, I often say the English are very tolerant people because they've had two Welsh speakers, constituency members, in six hundred years.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:50

The first one had a double squint, Sir John Trevor, the member for Denbigh.

Rt Hon. George Thomas14:55

And until his time, the Speaker pointed at the member concerned he was calling to speak.

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:01

Well, his double squint caused such confusion.

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:04

That Parliament put on record the Speaker must call him by name.

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:08

Does the speaker reside inside the Palace of Westminster? Yes, I live in those stately rooms beneath Big Ben.

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:16

And when the house was restored after the great fire of eighteen thirty-four.

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:22

Two windows were put in. We'd call it double glazing now. But they didn't. They called it two windows. And it means.

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:29

Although Big Ben is only just above me, I don't hear it, unless I'm listening for it. And the stately rooms downstairs they're magnificent because it was a royal palace and William the Fourth gave it to us for the speaker's use there.

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:48

Another record, mister Speaker. What next?

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:50

Well, when I was a lad in Tonapandi growing up,

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:54

Our organist in the chapel during the offering

Rt Hon. George Thomas15:58

Almost always would play Handel's Lago.

Rt Hon. George Thomas16:03

I loved it.

Rt Hon. George Thomas16:05

And it always reminds me of that chapel service where we used to sing so lustily.

Rt Hon. George Thomas16:12

Quiet that you could feel.

Rt Hon. George Thomas16:15

When the organist was playing.

Rt Hon. George Thomas16:16

Handles Lago.

Presenter17:17

Handel's Largo played by William Davies at the organ of the Royal Festival Hall.

Presenter17:23

Mr. Speaker, you have six hundred and thirty-five Members of Parliament in your charge, all of whom, I suppose, you must recognize by

Rt Hon. George Thomas17:31

By name. I know every one, his Christian name and his surname. I pride myself on that. It's my job, of course, to know them, because if I don't know their name they stand a very poor chance of speaking in the House of Commons.

Presenter17:46

And you must have complete impartiality. Now obviously you have no vote. This means that your party, although having the honor of providing the speaker, lose a vote on each division.

Rt Hon. George Thomas17:57

Well, for the past two hundred years, the Speaker in the House of Commons has been completely impartial outside the battle and expected to leave his party to prove that he's never going back on those green benches to join in the fray.

Rt Hon. George Thomas18:14

This system suits our country.

Rt Hon. George Thomas18:18

The speaker in return his reward

Rt Hon. George Thomas18:22

for the high price of withdrawing absolutely from the party battle.

Rt Hon. George Thomas18:27

is to be treated on a different basis.

Rt Hon. George Thomas18:30

At the last general election I did not stand as a party candidate, I stood as mister Speaker, seeking reelection.

Rt Hon. George Thomas18:39

There was a comforting message from the Conservative Party, the Liberal Party and the Labour Party on my address, all urging the electorate to send Mr. Speaker back. This, sir, means that I had the best majority I've ever had because people of all parties voted for me. And it does mean I'm independent. I'm the servant now of the Commons. My loyalty is to the House as a whole, and I must guard minority rights in particular.

Rt Hon. George Thomas19:09

The big parties can look after themselves.

Presenter19:10

You have a personal reputation for being exceptionally kind to new and inexperienced members.

Rt Hon. George Thomas19:18

Well, that's a very nice thing for you to say.

Rt Hon. George Thomas19:21

I never forget my early days in the House. The Speaker was very kind to me.

Rt Hon. George Thomas19:26

I regard myself in many ways as a father figure there not of those young people, members of parliament.

Rt Hon. George Thomas19:33

They were not even born when I was elected there. I told one, on a happy occasion, that he was a walking offence to me, and he said What have I done, Mr Speaker?

Rt Hon. George Thomas19:45

I said, you were not born until I had already been in this house five years, and I find it annoying.

Presenter19:52

Yeah.

Presenter19:53

Now you can be very tough with unruly offenders.

Rt Hon. George Thomas19:56

Well, you have to be because the House trusts me to ensure that the business is done. What penalties could you inflict?

Presenter19:59

To enjoy

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:04

First of all, may I say any penalties are inflicted reluctantly, of course but I can order a person to get out of the chamber for the rest of the day.

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:14

It's also possible to name him, which means the leader of the house will get up and propose that he be suspended from the service of the house for five days.

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:26

If this is done twice in the same session, he is then suspended for the whole of the session.

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:32

It's a very serious thing.

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:34

either to be ordered out of the chamber,

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:37

Ought to be named because it does mean that the Honourable Members consider.

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:44

By the speaker?

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:46

Not to have uh

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:48

Honourably observed.

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:50

The standards the House expects of everyone.

Presenter20:53

Now if that person that you've ordered out of the chamber doesn't go, whose job is it to eject him?

Rt Hon. George Thomas20:58

The sergeant at arms, poor fellow. However, they say he hasn't really got to catch hold of him. He merely has to touch him on the shoulder and say, Now, mister Speaker has ordered you to leave.

Rt Hon. George Thomas21:12

If they didn't go then, I would suspend the sitting and give a chance for the person to be cleared out. Of course, tempers can rise uh so strongly that a person who is normally exceptionally well behaved can be carried away and refuse to do what his friends are advising him all the time to do.

Rt Hon. George Thomas21:35

Fortunately, this doesn't happen very often.

Presenter21:38

There was an occasion when a member seized your mace.

Rt Hon. George Thomas21:41

Yes, that's right. I had only been speaker for six weeks then.

Rt Hon. George Thomas21:44

And uh on that occasion

Rt Hon. George Thomas21:47

There was great tension in in the air, great excitement.

Rt Hon. George Thomas21:51

because the Government had just been saved by one vote.

Rt Hon. George Thomas21:54

And the members were over six hundred were pouring out of the chamber through a a rather narrow exit, like going out of Cardiff Arms Park.

Rt Hon. George Thomas22:03

Sam came back as though they said, Oh, well, let's wait till the crowd are gone, boys, and they started to sing the Red Flag.

Rt Hon. George Thomas22:11

So I shouted order

Rt Hon. George Thomas22:13

But of course

Rt Hon. George Thomas22:15

When those boys were singing they had to reach the end of the verse before they could listen to me.

Rt Hon. George Thomas22:20

So it was in the interval that the mace was lifted.

Rt Hon. George Thomas22:23

And I suspended the session and cleared out and came back twenty minutes later when things were very different.

Presenter22:29

Yes, you won't support unparliamentary music. You also won't support unparliamentary language.

Rt Hon. George Thomas22:35

No, well, after all, I'm there to maintain standards. And it's easy to lower standards. That's why some people, when they just use the simple word, like my grandmother knew, the only English word she knew. But if I let that go, the next begin with a B. Right. And then we're on the downward slope. And I believe that in the House of Commons only the higher standards are good enough. Another rate of the case. Well, don't always get them, but I try. Well, now I'm going to ask you for a hymn, because my old mother to whom you referred earlier.

Rt Hon. George Thomas23:11

Just two days before she went home to heaven.

Rt Hon. George Thomas23:15

She sang three verses of

Rt Hon. George Thomas23:18

What a friend we have in Jesus. I am a strong believer in Jesus, and I love that hymn.

Rt Hon. George Thomas23:26

Because I can always hear my mother sing it.

Rt Hon. George Thomas23:29

I would like to have it if it's possible.

Presenter24:21

What a Friend We Have in Jesus, sung by Leontine Price, with the choir of St. Thomas's Episcopal Church in New York.

Presenter24:28

Now you have one of the best known voices in the kingdom through the broadcasting of parliament. Do you think the broadcasting of parliamentary proceedings is a good idea?

Rt Hon. George Thomas24:36

Yes, I do.

Rt Hon. George Thomas24:38

I I did not at the beginning mind. I've been converted, because I knew the British public would be so horrified with the noise. And now they're getting used to it the same as we are. Do you think the proceeding should be televised?

Rt Hon. George Thomas24:51

I I'm not supposed to comment on it. I merely say this.

Rt Hon. George Thomas24:55

I believe it cannot be held back for long, because the public will demand to see what's happening, and every day, every day the House sits, there's a queue of people to see the proceedings as well as to hear.

Presenter25:09

Going off at a tangent. You've made yourself an expert on on Welsh ceremonial, and in fact, on on occasion you've even been able to tell the Duke of Norfolk about the Welsh way to do things.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:20

That's the former Duke, Bernard Duke of Norfolk, wonderful man he was.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:26

There were three rehearsals for the investiture of Prince Charles, which of course was a tremendous state occasion.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:33

Three rehearsals at Buckingham Palace.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:36

The first tool

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:38

The Queen and all the royal family came.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:40

The middle one.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:41

There was a very distinguished lady taking the place of the Queen, who had some state business elsewhere.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:48

I asked a member of the House of Lords.

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:52

Who is that taking the place of the Queen? Isn't she a very gracious lady?

Rt Hon. George Thomas25:57

He said that's the daughter of the Duke of Norfolk.

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:00

He said thus.

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:01

Well, after the rehearsal.

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:04

This lady came straight over to me and said, I'm so pleased to meet you, Secretary of State I was then Secretary of State for Wales.

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:12

And I said, I am glad to meet you, my dear. I work well with your father.

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:17

And she said, I know you do. But he's not my father. He's my husband. I nearly had a fit.

Speaker 226:22

Oh, what's the

Presenter26:27

Yeah.

Presenter26:29

Oh well, I'm sure you will quickly forgive

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:32

He didn't mind. When I met him next, he said, Have you seen my daughter, George?

Presenter26:37

We've got your sixth record. What's that to be?

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:41

Well, it's bound to be one connected with the investiture. And the climatic moment, I think, on on that day was when the Prince suddenly appeared inside the crowded Caernarvan Castle, everyone tense and excited.

Rt Hon. George Thomas26:58

and they burst into singing.

Rt Hon. George Thomas27:00

Among our ancient mountains with the chorus

Rt Hon. George Thomas27:05

God bless the Prince of Wales. We love it, and it was a very moving occasion.

Presenter28:14

An excerpt from the Ceremony of the Investiture of the Prince of Wales.

Presenter28:19

Must have been

Rt Hon. George Thomas28:20

Higo, you've been talking of retarding.

Rt Hon. George Thomas28:22

That's right. I have announced that I will not seek re-election at the forthcoming general election.

Presenter28:30

You've been speaker for what, eight years, is it?

Rt Hon. George Thomas28:32

And no, I will speak in nineteen seventy six. I will have done seven in the New Year and uh I was two years as deputy, so it's nine years since I made a party speech or took part in any public party political activities.

Rt Hon. George Thomas28:49

But mind I'm going to miss that house because I love it. It's a wonderful place.

Presenter28:55

Write another record.

Rt Hon. George Thomas28:56

Well, now a complete change, if I may.

Rt Hon. George Thomas29:00

I like bright music, you may have gathered that.

Rt Hon. George Thomas29:04

And I love Vivaldi's Four Seasons.

Rt Hon. George Thomas29:08

That would be a thrill for me if I could hear it, please.

Presenter30:17

Part of the first movement Spring from Vivaldi's The Four Seasons, Itzak Pellman with the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Rt Hon. George Thomas30:25

What are your

Presenter30:26

Outdoor activities must be

Rt Hon. George Thomas30:28

Walking. I love walking, but I don't get much chance, mind. Since I'm Speaker, I've been spoiled. I'm taken everywhere by car.

Presenter30:36

Yes. Or by train. Are there any occupations that you're good at, like fishing, for example, or camping out or?

Rt Hon. George Thomas30:37

Pull by

Rt Hon. George Thomas30:44

Fishing? I've watched plenty.

Rt Hon. George Thomas30:47

been alongside them, especially when I've been keeping one eye open for the man coming to chase us away. But I suppose as speaker, I better not talk about those early years.

Presenter30:58

No, no.

Rt Hon. George Thomas30:58

Yeah.

Rt Hon. George Thomas30:59

Uh

Presenter31:01

I'm looking for skills that might be useful to you on a desert island. What about small boats?

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:04

What about

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:06

Well, I don't think oh no, I honestly, I think if you're going to put me on a desert island, I'm going to stay there. And uh I better make up my mind I'm staying there. Therefore

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:18

I like

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:20

you know, I I like writing.

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:23

And I'm going to ask for a jolly good supply of writing paper and pencils that will keep me going.

Presenter31:30

That's going to be your luxury.

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:33

Brett Yes. That's right. And one book.

Presenter31:34

Alright.

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:36

Ah, there's not much difficulty for me in choosing this because the Methodist hymn book, you can't choose the Bible, that's already there, I think. Yes, it is.

Presenter31:44

I sent it.

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:45

The Methodist hymn book.

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:47

I know so many of them.

Rt Hon. George Thomas31:49

And I would hate if I forgot the words in my old age. I would hate not to be able to sing them even to myself, because now, when I'm driving down to Cardiff, which I do most week ends,

Rt Hon. George Thomas32:02

I'm usually singing to myself. Number one keeps you awake, of course. Uh but I I like singing them, and I get so annoyed if I forget the words, so I'd like the Methodist hymn book there with me.

Presenter32:14

A musical island with songs of praise. Let's have your last record. What's that to be?

Rt Hon. George Thomas32:18

It's bound to be the one.

Rt Hon. George Thomas32:21

which is sung throughout Wales when they

Rt Hon. George Thomas32:24

giving a special greeting to people, and I've had it sung to me so often in the valleys of Wales and in my beloved Cardiff, which I have the honour to represent.

Rt Hon. George Thomas32:36

We'll keep a welcome in the hillside is a wonderful tune.

Speaker 232:48

Come in the village, Is something new we'll still be saving?

Speaker 232:58

Home again.

Speaker 233:02

His land of song will keep

Speaker 233:14

Which is a way to give

Speaker 233:20

Come home again.

Speaker 233:25

Yeah.

Presenter33:43

We'll keep a welcome once again by the Trioke male choir.

Presenter33:48

Well, we've heard your

Presenter33:49

Luxury in your book? Which one disc would you take if you were only allowed to take one instead of eight?

Rt Hon. George Thomas33:56

I'm going to choose the very first one, the Hallelujah Chorus, because it expresses everything I believe, and if my spirits were flagging,

Rt Hon. George Thomas34:07

It would give me courage to go on.

Presenter34:09

Right. And thank you, George Thomas, Speaker of the House of Commons, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Rt Hon. George Thomas34:15

Thank you, Roy. I'm so grateful for the privilege of coming on this much-loved programme. I love it along with others. Thank you very much indeed.

Presenter34:24

Well, that's most kind of you. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 134:33

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.