Dame Eva Turner

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 30:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1982, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter1:14

That was the voice of our castaway this week, the fine dramatic soprano Dame Eva Turner, who celebrated her ninetieth birthday this week.

Presenter1:24

Daimiva, this is a bad time to dump you on a desert island, taking you away from all the parties and celebrations.

Dame Eva Turner1:29

Oh

Dame Eva Turner1:31

That will give me a little rest.

Presenter1:33

How well could you endure loneliness?

Dame Eva Turner1:36

I've never had a tremendous amount of time to call my own, so perhaps I would welcome a little time in which I could reminisce and so on.

Presenter1:48

Did you find it very difficult to choose just eight records?

Dame Eva Turner1:51

Oh, I found that.

Presenter1:51

Bye, Fawn.

Dame Eva Turner1:52

Exceedingly difficult, enormously difficult.

Dame Eva Turner1:58

Oh so many I want to play

Presenter2:01

How did you set about it? Did you make long, long lists?

Dame Eva Turner2:04

I did, and then I deleted those, and then I did it again and again. Oh dear.

Presenter2:12

Well, here you are. You've got your list. What's the first one?

Dame Eva Turner2:15

The first one would be Andymusique of Schubert.

Dame Eva Turner2:20

And you know why I chose that? First and foremost I want to pay homage and my tribute to music which has been my life. And this lead really, the words are so beautiful do hold a kunst.

Dame Eva Turner2:42

I love it.

Presenter2:43

Who sings it?

Dame Eva Turner2:45

Lottie Lehman.

Dame Eva Turner2:47

whom I knew.

Presenter2:48

Yes.

Dame Eva Turner2:48

She was at the Royal Opera House when I first came in nineteen twenty eight.

Dame Eva Turner2:54

in the international season.

Speaker 43:18

Homishta, sleep and swield a Christ woost.

Speaker 43:32

I stole my heart to fall in.

Presenter3:45

Antimusik sung by Lottie Lehmann.

Presenter3:49

Now, you're a Lancashire lass, and your father was in the cotton industry.

Dame Eva Turner3:53

Yes.

Presenter3:54

A musical family, yours?

Dame Eva Turner3:55

Yes, they were, in a very amateur way, of course. We always enjoyed going back from church on Sunday nights, family gatherings, singing the hymns again.

Presenter4:08

Grand the piano.

Dame Eva Turner4:08

Round the piano.

Presenter4:10

Were you a big family?

Dame Eva Turner4:11

No, deh was just my brother and myself, but we always went to the grandparents, and the aunts and uncles came too. Of course that was before we moved to Bristol, and we moved to Bristol when I was ten years of age.

Presenter4:26

When did you start to learn music? W were you put to the piano as a child?

Dame Eva Turner4:31

Yes, I studied piano. I used to get up about five or six in the morning and practice with the soft pedal, and I've been very grateful through the years that I did that, when I had to study scores very quickly and so on.

Presenter4:46

When did you start to sing?

Dame Eva Turner4:47

Oh, I began to sing when I was about ten or eleven. When I was thirteen I sang in church. So Hello? Yes. We were in Bristol and I was studying with a teacher in one of the suburbs and then I went to study with the teacher who taught Dame Clarabatt. Who was that? Daniel Rutum. What was the first opera you heard? The first opera was Ils Robertore, and strangely enough, that was with the Royal Carl Rosa Opera Company, and I joined that Vere Company later. And when my father took me, and I knew from that moment on I wanted to sing in opera.

Presenter5:24

And when

Presenter5:31

Well, having made that decision, that seems a a good point in your story to break for the next record. What shall that be?

Dame Eva Turner5:37

Well, the next recording is

Dame Eva Turner5:40

You know, I should tell you why I've chosen this.

Presenter5:44

Course.

Dame Eva Turner5:44

It is the refice sung by Claudio Mucio.

Dame Eva Turner5:51

Umbre di Noube. And I heard Muccio when I was went to the Scala in nineteen twenty four, a most gorgeous singer, a soprano I loved.

Dame Eva Turner6:04

And uh I think she sings this very movingly. She makes the words pregnant with meaning or and she really

Dame Eva Turner6:15

Oh, it's most touching for me.

Presenter7:16

Umbra de Nube by Refice sung by Claudio Muzzio.

Dame Eva Turner7:21

Did you realize her diction, how perfectly excellent it was?

Presenter7:27

It is a lovely piece of singing.

Presenter7:30

You went to London after your Bristol studies to study at the Royal Academy of Music.

Dame Eva Turner7:35

Yes. How long were you there?

Presenter7:36

There.

Dame Eva Turner7:37

I was there from 1912 to 1915 and then I auditioned for the Royal Carl Rosa Opera Company and he offered me one year in chorus. And I thought, well, I could have joined the chorus perhaps before going to the Royal Academy of Music. But anyhow, I'm happy to say that I accepted and I learnt very much in that year.

Dame Eva Turner8:04

And then I became a principal soprano doing small part.

Presenter8:09

What was the first small part you played? Do you remember?

Dame Eva Turner8:12

We opened in Swindon in nineteen fifteen, and I sang The First Lady in the Magic Flute, for which I got this sum of five shillings.

Presenter8:23

That was extra.

Dame Eva Turner8:24

That was extra to my chorus money. The chorus money was thirty five shillings, out of which we paid our rooms and board and so on.

Presenter8:34

And you were doing half a dozen different operas every week, weren't you?

Dame Eva Turner8:37

Oh yes, oh yes repertoire But it was a wonderful experience.

Presenter8:43

Of course. And then quickly, quite quickly, they began to give you leading roles.

Dame Eva Turner8:48

Puck oh puck, oh yes.

Dame Eva Turner8:50

Foke.

Presenter8:50

You were in the provinces most of the time. Did you have London seasons as well with the company?

Dame Eva Turner8:56

Yes. I remember in nineteen seventeen, I think it was, we came to the Gaddick Theatre and I remember I sang Maritana and Ben Davis was the tenor.

Speaker 49:08

Yeah.

Dame Eva Turner9:09

Then we went over to Shawsby Avenue to the Shawsby Theatre and again we were singing the Maritana.

Speaker 49:09

Yeah.

Dame Eva Turner9:17

And Adelina Patty was in a box there for that afternoon performance. She left early to return to Swansea. You know, she lived at Craigenose Castle outside Swansea, so I didn't have the pleasure and the honour of meeting her.

Presenter9:36

But it was really something to have sung to Patty.

Dame Eva Turner9:38

Yes, yes.

Presenter9:40

How long were you with the Carl Rosa?

Dame Eva Turner9:42

With the Carl Rosa until nineteen twenty four, I became the Prima Donna.

Dame Eva Turner9:48

You know we came to London to do a season in nineteen twenty at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, in English.

Presenter9:57

Yes, everything algorithm was in English.

Dame Eva Turner9:58

Everything was English and that was quite a success. And then of course we resumed touring.

Presenter10:07

Our touring round, doing all these different operas every week, things must have gone wrong quite often. Tell me your favorite story about the Karl Rosa.

Dame Eva Turner10:17

Well, there were various happenings.

Dame Eva Turner10:20

I remember after that very season at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden,

Dame Eva Turner10:25

I think the first theatre we went to after that was the Alexandra Theatre Hull, which of course was very much smaller.

Presenter10:33

Fed him.

Dame Eva Turner10:33

Very much.

Dame Eva Turner10:37

And always after the second act I went out to see what the drop was, you know, when Tosca threw herself over the castle walls.

Presenter10:47

F

Dame Eva Turner10:47

And um

Dame Eva Turner10:49

At the Alexandra Theatre some one came to speak to me, and I didn't go and look at the drop. Well, the drop at the Royal Opera House was much deeper, and this was very shallow, and I threw myself with much force and came up again.

Presenter11:07

Oh, that's lovely. The bouncing primadonna.

Dame Eva Turner11:08

The bouncing primer dog

Presenter11:11

Uh

Dame Eva Turner11:11

Oh dear.

Presenter11:13

Yeah.

Presenter11:14

Right, now what's your next record, Good?

Dame Eva Turner11:16

My next record is

Dame Eva Turner11:18

O Don Fatale by Abi Stignane. Now she was a singer with whom I sang so many Aidas, and actually she was the Amneris in the very last performance of Aida in nineteen thirty nine in the international season before the Second World War broke out. I should tell you the tenor was GE.

Dame Eva Turner11:47

And the Amanasho was Armando Borgioli, and I was the Aida.

Presenter11:54

O'Donne Fatali, of course.

Dame Eva Turner11:56

is from Don Carlos of Verdi.

Presenter11:56

John Carbon

Dame Eva Turner11:58

And she was superb. I heard Avie first of all at the Scala when I was living in Milan.

Presenter13:05

Epistignani singing Udon Fattale from Verdi's Don Carlos. Now you toured with the Carl Rosa Company for, I believe, nine years, playing principal roles in virtually the whole repertoire. Then something very exciting happened.

Dame Eva Turner13:17

Yeah, it's true.

Dame Eva Turner13:19

Yeah.

Dame Eva Turner13:21

Yes.

Presenter13:22

Now this was

Presenter13:24

Your introduction to Toscanini. How did that happen? Who proposed you to Toscanini? Was it an agent, or did one of his scouts know you?

Dame Eva Turner13:32

No, no. It really was that the international season was in progress at the Royal Opera House and we the Royal Carl Rosa Opera Company were performing at the New Scarlet Theatre in Charlotte Street.

Dame Eva Turner13:49

And I was doing three performances of Butterfly one week and three performances of Fidelio the next week. And Maestro Panicza heard of this and asked me he was the conductor for the international season at the Royal Opera House and he asked me if I would come and audition at Covent Garden, which I did. And after the audition he said could I leave at once to audition for Toscanini.

Dame Eva Turner14:19

And I left at the end of the week and auditioned for Toscanini, and he gave me a contract.

Presenter14:27

For how long? For the season. For the season. So off you went to Milan, where you decided to master Italian in a few weeks. You really worked, didn't you?

Dame Eva Turner14:35

Oh yes, yes, it meant much application, but oh I was thrilled to do it.

Presenter14:41

What was the first role that the Maestro cast you in?

Dame Eva Turner14:44

Friar in the Rhinegold.

Presenter14:48

What was Toscanini like to work for? Was he frightening?

Dame Eva Turner14:51

Well, as a matter of fact, I did not sing with Toscanini conducting. He attended the rehearsals, but I sang mostly with um Maestro Gui and Maestro Panicza.

Presenter15:05

When did you first sing Puccini's Torando?

Dame Eva Turner15:09

in nineteen twenty six, if my memory serves me correctly, at the Teatro Grande in Brescia.

Presenter15:17

In those days I believe they used to break the performance.

Dame Eva Turner15:20

Yes, whenever I sang it for the first time

Dame Eva Turner15:24

They did as Toscanini did on the first night.

Dame Eva Turner15:29

And that was that when they came to the end of Liu's death in the last act, Maestro Toscanini put down the baton, turned to the audience and said, Aquestu punto morive il maestro. At this point died the maestro. And that was a two minute silence always. Very, very moving. And Turando is on the stage with her face covered with a veil. And I was always very grateful for that, because I always found it very, very moving.

Presenter16:12

Let's have your fourth record.

Dame Eva Turner16:14

The fourth record is Sir Henry Wood. I would like.

Dame Eva Turner16:20

to play a little of the serenade to music.

Dame Eva Turner16:24

Because, you know, I did many, many promenade concerts with Sir Henry. I did some of the Wagner and Beethoven nights, and Sir Henry was perfectly wonderful. And they gave him a marvellous gala performance in nineteen thirty eight. I think it was in October.

Dame Eva Turner16:46

And I remember seeing him many months before, and he said, You know, Eva, they're talking about giving me a concert, and I do want the singers who've been associated with me to take part, but of course the concert would never end if they all sang an aria. So he said, Would you mind if you sing but a few notes? Well, towards that end, to have the singers that he had been most associated with, Vaughan Williams composed the Serenade to Music.

Dame Eva Turner17:20

And there were sixteen singers.

Dame Eva Turner17:23

Four sopranos, four tenors, four mezzos and contraltos, and four basses and baritones. And I'm sorry to say all the tenors have passed on, and also three of the contraltos and mezzos. Mary Charrod is still with us. I could tell you the names, if I may, very quickly. Estra Desmond, Margaret Balfour, they have passed on. And Frank Titterton, Perry Jones, Hedel Nash and Walter Widdup, they're not with us any more.

Presenter18:00

All the four tenors.

Dame Eva Turner18:01

And then two of the bassists died, Norman Allen and Harold Williams, the Australian, and recently Elsie Sudderby of the Sopranos. But Lillian Stiles Allen and Isabel Bailey and Arriva are still here.

Presenter18:18

I believe the piece we're going to hear from Vaughan Williams' Serenade to Music is is the final passage, which is choral with all sixteen of you singing together and just about two bars solo sung by Isabel Bailey.

Dame Eva Turner18:32

Yes, which she did beautifully.

Presenter19:30

The closing passage of SERENADE to Music by Vaughan Williams, a tribute by sixteen of his favorite singers, including you, Dame Eva, to Sir Henry Wood.

Presenter19:41

Now you were an international stir, Dame Eva, but you still hadn't sung in the international season at Cotton Garden.

Dame Eva Turner19:48

Well, I came back in nineteen twenty eight.

Dame Eva Turner19:51

To sing Turando.

Dame Eva Turner19:53

at Covent Garden in the international season.

Presenter19:57

Yes.

Dame Eva Turner19:58

and also Caballeria and Daeda.

Presenter20:01

Aida was another of your specially great friends.

Dame Eva Turner20:03

Oh, I sang it very much.

Presenter20:06

And you had a long contract in Chicago.

Dame Eva Turner20:08

Yes, I I went from the season after Covent Garden in 1928. I went to Chicago for three years.

Presenter20:18

You also worked with Mascani.

Dame Eva Turner20:19

Oh, yes, yes.

Presenter20:21

What was that in?

Dame Eva Turner20:22

Well, I sang Isabeau. As a matter of fact, in nineteen twenty nine I sang the Isabeau at the Arena Verona, and then later, about nineteen thirty three it would be, I think, that I sang it at the Teatro Realia of Rome with Mascagni conducting.

Presenter20:43

Tell me about Mascani. What sort of man was he?

Dame Eva Turner20:45

Oh, very, very amusing, very talkative, a fine man.

Presenter20:52

And Beecham, of course. You you worked a lot with Beecham.

Dame Eva Turner20:54

Oh, a tremendous amount. A tremendous amount. As a matter of fact.

Dame Eva Turner21:00

I had the honour of being the first soloist when he formed the London Philharmonic Orchestra and we did the tour of Great Britain and Ireland.

Presenter21:11

There are so many wonderful stories about Sir Thomas Beacham. Have you got one?

Dame Eva Turner21:15

Well, I remember one that happened at the Royal Opera House when I was singing Brunhilde, and in nineteen thirty five we were doing Siegfried.

Dame Eva Turner21:27

And Walter Widet was the tenor, I remember. And Sir Thomas wanted to do it in English.

Dame Eva Turner21:35

And you know when Siegfried comes along the top he sees Brunhild lying there

Dame Eva Turner21:42

and he says, Das is kind man. Of course we were doing it in English, and that was That is no man. And some one from the gallery called out, You're telling us.

Dame Eva Turner21:57

I remember that very well.

Speaker 421:58

Yeah.

Dame Eva Turner21:59

I always found Sir Thomas marvellous, wonderful he was wonderful to me.

Dame Eva Turner22:05

I loved singing with him.

Presenter22:08

Let's have record number five.

Dame Eva Turner22:10

Well, I thought it would be nice to play a recording conducted by Sir Thomas Beacham, which is the Scala di Setta of Rossini.

Dame Eva Turner22:21

In the nineteen thirties, I think it was. Oh, I loved it I loved it and played and played it, and I'd like to hear it again.

Presenter23:28

The Rossini Orbiture, The Silken Ladder, Sir Thomas Beacham conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Dame Eva Turner23:34

Mm.

Presenter23:35

Now of course there was virtually no opera in London during the war.

Dame Eva Turner23:40

Oh no, no

Presenter23:41

How long was it after the war before things got going again in the operatic field? When did Covent Garden open again?

Dame Eva Turner23:47

I think it was in nineteen

Dame Eva Turner23:52

Forty six. I remember I was at lunch one day, and uh Sir David was at a table near us.

Presenter24:02

Sir David Webster.

Dame Eva Turner24:02

Sir David Webster, and he came over and asked if he may telephone me, and it was to ask me if I would come to sing the Turando.

Dame Eva Turner24:12

For him at the Royal Opera House, which I did, and we did it then in English.

Presenter24:19

Yes, that was the policy for several years, wasn't it?

Dame Eva Turner24:21

Well, for a a little while, yes.

Presenter24:24

When did you decide to to leave the operatic stage?

Dame Eva Turner24:28

Well, I'd sang the Torandoes in nineteen

Dame Eva Turner24:33

forty seven forty eight, I think and then in nineteen forty nine I was inv uh invited to go to the University of Oklahoma as a visiting professor of voice for nine months.

Presenter24:49

Yes.

Dame Eva Turner24:50

I thought I would like to go back to America, so I accepted. But you know that I was there ten years. I never really retired. It just went on like that.

Presenter24:59

Okay.

Presenter25:01

There's a an amusing story of the press announcement that announced your appointment.

Dame Eva Turner25:06

Oh yes, I must tell you, I was announced as a visiting professor of voice with the old left out of voice.

Speaker 425:14

Uh

Dame Eva Turner25:15

I was a success at once, of course.

Presenter25:17

Okay.

Presenter25:18

So ten years

Presenter25:20

At Oklahoma

Dame Eva Turner25:21

Yes.

Presenter25:22

And then Professor of Voice at the Royal Academy, or else I'm not sure.

Dame Eva Turner25:24

Yeah, I came back to teach at the Royal Academy of Music.

Presenter25:29

And you're still teaching young singers?

Dame Eva Turner25:32

Yes, and judging, too.

Presenter25:34

Now you have a breathing exercise which you always use with your pupils.

Dame Eva Turner25:39

Oh yes as they're walking they can always be helping their breathing, and I tell them to take twelve steps taking the breath in, twelve steps holding it, and twelve steps letting the breath out. Now the last is exceedingly difficult to regulate.

Presenter25:59

Give

Dame Eva Turner25:59

Very difficult.

Presenter26:01

I'll start practicing tomorrow.

Dame Eva Turner26:02

Yes, that's right.

Presenter26:04

We've got your sixth record.

Dame Eva Turner26:06

Well, my sixth record would be Plathido Domingo.

Dame Eva Turner26:13

I would like him to sing Nesundorma. I only wish I was singing to day to sing Turando with him.

Speaker 426:28

I see Lenty walk.

Presenter27:24

Placido Domingo singing Nesum Dome from Tiurando.

Dame Eva Turner27:28

Lovely, lovely.

Presenter27:29

Now, dear me, but the incredible fact incredible to believe that you were, indeed, ninety on march tenth, on Wednesday an incredibly young ninety. You you don't look it or sound it, and I'm sure you don't feel it.

Dame Eva Turner27:44

Well, it's good to hear that.

Presenter27:48

And there's a splendid celebration at the Royal Opera House.

Dame Eva Turner27:51

Yes, wonderful, isn't it? I'm enormously touched all the people so kind.

Presenter27:57

And another celebration at the Coliseum by the English National

Dame Eva Turner28:00

Yes, marvellous.

Presenter28:02

What a pity that the old Carl Rosa doesn't exist to give you a party as well.

Dame Eva Turner28:07

Yes, but I am to have the pleasure of unveiling a tablet to mister and misses Phillips of the Carlrosa in Saint Paul's, Covent Garden later on.

Presenter28:16

Oh splendid.

Presenter28:18

I'm delighted to hear that because they did sterling work for Syphon.

Dame Eva Turner28:19

Yeah.

Dame Eva Turner28:20

They did a lot of pioneer work.

Presenter28:23

Indeed they did.

Presenter28:25

Well, record number seven.

Dame Eva Turner28:28

Well, I went last year.

Dame Eva Turner28:30

No, the year before, for the opening of the Metropolitan Opera, they invite me every year.

Dame Eva Turner28:37

And I had the great pleasure of being invited by a friend of mine who was the past President of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra to be his guest for the birthday of Isaac

Dame Eva Turner28:53

and Perlman and Zuckerman were also playing. It was a most fabulous concert.

Speaker 429:00

I should

Dame Eva Turner29:00

Oh, I enjoyed it beyond words. You know, I'm so happy that in this time I can attend concerts more and more, and the opera more and more. I think I'm very fortunate. Well, this was a concert to remember for all time.

Presenter29:19

Some really wonderful violin playing there must have been for those three.

Dame Eva Turner29:21

Oh, and Suckerman played the viola, and the tone was quite out of this world. We were all transported. It was gorgeous.

Dame Eva Turner29:34

And I would love to play just a few bars of that.

Presenter29:38

You

Dame Eva Turner29:38

Yes. It would be lovely.

Presenter30:32

An excerpt from the second movement of the Mozart Sinfonia Concertante for violin and viola, with Isaac Stern and Pinchas Zuckermann and the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, recorded at that Isaac Stern anniversary celebration that you attended in New York.

Dame Eva Turner30:47

Got to

Presenter30:49

Dame Eva, what are your hobbies apart from music?

Dame Eva Turner30:52

Well, I used to swim a lot, but I don't swim so much these days.

Presenter30:58

You like cooking, I know that.

Dame Eva Turner30:59

Yes, I do. A and I of course I like the concerts and the opera and so on.

Presenter31:07

How are you going to manage on this desert island? Can you look after yourself reasonably well, do you think? The climate is good. And.

Dame Eva Turner31:14

Yes, I think I would try to forage about and see what I could do to make life livable, see what I could find round about.

Presenter31:23

Yes, you

Presenter31:25

We'll arrange with the previous castaway to leave you a a comfortable hut.

Dame Eva Turner31:29

Yeah.

Presenter31:30

To give you a stove.

Dame Eva Turner31:31

Yeah.

Presenter31:32

What's your last record?

Dame Eva Turner31:34

My last recording would be From the Verde Requiem.

Dame Eva Turner31:39

The dear Sierra I am always so thrilled when I hear that with the trumpets.

Dame Eva Turner31:46

And inspired Enormously inspired. I sang that work quite a lot, and I always felt it enormously. I love it.

Presenter32:56

part of the diesiere from the Verde Requiem.

Presenter32:59

TULIO SERAFINE conducting the chorus and orchestra of the Rome Opera House.

Presenter33:04

If you could take only one disk of the H whove played us, which would it be? That's the hardest question of the lot, I know.

Dame Eva Turner33:11

Oh, it's fiendishly difficult for me,'cause I love them all.

Dame Eva Turner33:17

But I love the refugee with Muzzio.

Dame Eva Turner33:21

I think it would have to be that.

Presenter33:23

That song by Claudia Muzier

Presenter33:26

And one luxury to have with you on the island, just one possession that would give you great pleasure, of no practical use.

Dame Eva Turner33:33

Well, as a matter of fact, I've always wanted to be able to use castanets.

Dame Eva Turner33:41

So I think I'd like a pair of custanets.

Dame Eva Turner33:45

And if I could really use them well.

Dame Eva Turner33:50

I think I would perhaps come back and sing car when I'm reincarnated.

Presenter33:54

When I'm reincarnated

Presenter33:57

Oh, we'll look forward to that. And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare.

Dame Eva Turner34:02

Well, I began, when I lived in Milan, I began the Inferno of Dante.

Dame Eva Turner34:09

And I never really finished it. I'd like to have that book.

Presenter34:14

And you will have it in Italian, of course.

Dame Eva Turner34:16

In Italiano, see.

Presenter34:18

Right.

Presenter34:19

And thank you, Dame Eva Turner, for letting us hear your Desert Island Dis

Dame Eva Turner34:23

I thank you. It's been a great pleasure.

Presenter34:26

Thank you. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 334:35

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.