Colonel A D Wintle

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and you are listening to Desert Island Discs.

Speaker 10:05

This edition of Desert Island Discs was archived without the music, so although the Castaways choices are introduced, they're not part of this recording.

Speaker 10:15

Full details can be found on the Castaways page on the Desert Island Disc's website.

Speaker 10:20

This is a recording as it was being broadcast, rather than the studio recording.

Speaker 10:25

and for that reason you may hear some interference.

Speaker 10:29

and some degradation in the sound quality.

Speaker 10:32

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen sixty two.

Speaker 10:36

And the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:39

How do you do, ladies and gentlemen?

Presenter0:41

Our castaway this week is a soldier, a writer, and an individualist.

Presenter0:45

His adventurous career, his gallantry, and his lack of respect for the Dull and the Cherbourne have earned him a great reputation. Here is Colonel AD Wintle, MC.

Presenter0:56

Colonel Wintle, has your career ever taken you to a desert island?

Colonel A D Wintle0:59

Not exactly, if you perhaps exclude uh Ireland.

Colonel A D Wintle1:04

But I've been in places

Colonel A D Wintle1:07

Which are not unlike a desert island. For instance, I was a prisoner of the Vichy French.

Colonel A D Wintle1:12

I was kept in solitary confinement without daylight for thirty months.

Presenter1:17

So you know what solitude means.

Colonel A D Wintle1:18

Oh yes.

Presenter1:19

Do you think you could phase up to it again?

Colonel A D Wintle1:20

Of course I could.

Presenter1:21

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle1:21

Yes, I mean, after all, I'm never bored if I'm present.

Colonel A D Wintle1:25

Does music play a big part in your life? Very much. Do you play any any instrument? I used to strum on the piano.

Colonel A D Wintle1:31

And I still strum.

Colonel A D Wintle1:33

When

Colonel A D Wintle1:34

Uh my wife isn't present, because she really is a musician.

Colonel A D Wintle1:39

Do you play the grammophone a lot?

Presenter1:40

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle1:40

Nope, hate it.

Presenter1:41

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle1:42

Yeah.

Presenter1:42

Oh.

Colonel A D Wintle1:43

Uh

Presenter1:43

Well, you you're you're going to get one now to de

Colonel A D Wintle1:44

Well I

Presenter1:44

Well, I can take it, I suppose. And you've selected eight records.

Colonel A D Wintle1:49

Let's hear the first one.

Colonel A D Wintle1:50

The first one is Cavari Ravelli, played by mass trumpeters.

Presenter1:54

Hey Ravelli played by the mass cavalry trumpeters at the searchlight tattoo at the White City in 1957.

Presenter2:01

Colonel Wintle, where were you born? Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle2:03

I was born in Mariupol in South Russia, near the Crimea, on the Sea of Aesov. But you're not of Russian parents? No, no, God forbid. I'm entirely English. And by English, I mean English and not British.

Colonel A D Wintle2:14

When did you come to England for the first time? Um, when I was seven years old. You see, my f

Colonel A D Wintle2:19

Father and mother were in Russia at the time. Then we went to Romania. I still remember playing trains in Romanian. Plekatreno, Puetro Buzu, Plojesti, Predial, Bucharesti, Vienna.

Presenter2:32

Hmm.

Colonel A D Wintle2:33

Until I was still not to wear my boots out. Then I went to France and remained there for a good many years and during that period when I was seven years old I came over to England for the first time. Why did you decide to become a soldier?

Presenter2:45

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle2:45

Good in the family? Uh my father was not a soldier. He would have liked to be.

Colonel A D Wintle2:50

Which regiment did you join?

Colonel A D Wintle2:52

Originally I was a gunner.

Colonel A D Wintle2:54

Then I went to the 18th Royal Hazars and then I ended up in the Royal Dragoons. You went to the Royal Military Academy at Woolwich. I was. At the shop, as they call it. Yes.

Colonel A D Wintle3:03

And in fact, my next record is one from the shop, and it is the second March past we had

Colonel A D Wintle3:11

when we marched up and down the front parade at

Colonel A D Wintle3:16

The shop?

Colonel A D Wintle3:18

And this is a most sterling tune.

Colonel A D Wintle3:22

and it has always stood me in good stead.

Colonel A D Wintle3:26

hum it to myself in the most anxious and frightful moments

Colonel A D Wintle3:30

of war.

Colonel A D Wintle3:32

What's it called? It is called light of foot.

Presenter3:34

Foot played by The Band of the Coast Dream Guards.

Presenter3:38

While you were still a a cadet at the Royal Military Academy, the First World War started. Yes. The Kaiser's Wars, I prefer to call it, yes. And you went to France. Yes.

Colonel A D Wintle3:43

The Kaiser's wars, I don't

Presenter3:48

Well no, I believe you were you were badly wounded in action. You you went back into the line.

Presenter3:53

Where did you serve after the armistice?

Colonel A D Wintle3:54

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle3:55

I went to the war office.

Colonel A D Wintle3:57

Well, I forget what I did.

Colonel A D Wintle4:00

Fortunately nobody noticed it, so it made no difference. Then to Ireland during the trouble, and then to India. North West Frontier Province of India.

Colonel A D Wintle4:08

For a while you were instructor at the French Staff College in Paris. Yes, I was there for five years.

Colonel A D Wintle4:14

You were brought up bilingual. Your your your French is as good as your English. Yes, I read, write and speak French.

Colonel A D Wintle4:20

As I do English.

Colonel A D Wintle4:22

And also

Colonel A D Wintle4:25

German too, except of course I haven't got the profound academic knowledge of German that I have of French or English.

Colonel A D Wintle4:31

Uh

Presenter4:31

Right in 1939

Colonel A D Wintle4:32

Yeah.

Presenter4:32

war again and and you went back to France.

Presenter4:35

And the following year, 1940, you were the center of quite a bit of trouble. How did that come about?

Colonel A D Wintle4:41

Yeah.

Presenter4:41

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle4:41

Well

Presenter4:43

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle4:43

It's a long story, but really what it amounted to was this, that

Colonel A D Wintle4:48

Having seen my troops, my men, my soldiers, and my friends,

Colonel A D Wintle4:54

Decimated.

Colonel A D Wintle4:55

Blotted out.

Colonel A D Wintle4:56

by the incompetence of a lot of idiots in Kaiser's war.

Colonel A D Wintle5:01

I saw the same pack of idiots coming up the street again in Hitler's War.

Colonel A D Wintle5:06

And so I thought it was about time to throw a spanner in the works and get him chucked out.

Presenter5:09

Yes. You you tried to set off on a one-man mission to to bring the French Air Force to England.

Colonel A D Wintle5:15

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle5:15

Yeah. Not exactly the French Air Force. I had no plan.

Colonel A D Wintle5:18

I during one of my travels to France, during the war, I met General Madigal, who was Chief of Staff of the French Air Force, who was a great personal friend of mine.

Colonel A D Wintle5:28

He told me the French wouldn't stand up to it.

Colonel A D Wintle5:31

and that we ought to prepare something to straighten things out if we could. He made me promise him that I would go and find him the day that occurred. I gave him my promise, but I also reported it.

Presenter5:42

Yes. And uh a as a result of uh your attempts to carry out that promise, you finished up in in the Tower of London.

Colonel A D Wintle5:48

Out of

Presenter5:49

Um

Colonel A D Wintle5:49

Video

Presenter5:49

Good address.

Colonel A D Wintle5:50

Yes, a charming place and um

Presenter5:53

But you're court-martial.

Colonel A D Wintle5:54

Acquitted you of the charges? Well, acquitted me of uh those charges. I mean, for instance, one of the charges that I said that certain of His Majesty's ministers ought to be shot.

Colonel A D Wintle6:04

was dropped when I started reading out the list of those whom I considered should be shoppers.

Colonel A D Wintle6:10

And so on I was eventually convicted of committing a civil assault, because I had told some inconsiderable civil servant that he ought to be shot, and I very much regretted that I wasn't going to do so.

Colonel A D Wintle6:21

Uh

Presenter6:21

Let's break off at this point and have your third record.

Colonel A D Wintle6:24

My third record

Presenter6:25

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle6:25

Uh

Presenter6:25

Is

Colonel A D Wintle6:26

Media

Presenter6:26

After your spell as a a prisoner in the Tower, what what were the conditions like in the Tower of London? Oh, quite delightful.

Colonel A D Wintle6:33

Yeah.

Presenter6:34

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle6:34

Guardsman McKee, who was given to me as a first servant,

Colonel A D Wintle6:38

used to bring me whisky and ginger ale every morning, sharp at eleven.

Colonel A D Wintle6:42

After that friends would arrive with things like ducks in aspect and so on.

Presenter6:46

Very clever. And and when you came out of there, w where were you posted?

Colonel A D Wintle6:50

I was posted to

Colonel A D Wintle6:52

Um, Middle East. I went to General Wavels G H Q in Cairo. Yes. And then you went into occupied France as a Frenchman? Yes. Well, the problem was we had to send

Colonel A D Wintle7:05

Uh some fellow off

Colonel A D Wintle7:07

who could pose as a Frenchman with the Vichy French who were being chucked out of Syria.

Colonel A D Wintle7:13

The only idiot I could find who was

Colonel A D Wintle7:16

Suitable, I thought, was myself.

Presenter7:19

And this was to lead to a second spell of imprisonment, a rather grimmer one, the one you were talking about earlier.

Colonel A D Wintle7:24

Yes, I was betrayed. I was invited by Dalmar to meet him. Of course it turned out to be a vulgar trap.

Colonel A D Wintle7:30

And um I was incarcerated in Fort Saint-Cathrine at Toulon.

Colonel A D Wintle7:35

Doesn't this?

Presenter7:35

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle7:36

Yeah. Kept in solitary confinement without d

Presenter7:38

They lied for 13 months. There's a story told that you went on hunger strike there because of the bad turnout of your guards.

Colonel A D Wintle7:44

Yes, well I you see I had to do something.

Colonel A D Wintle7:47

And uh that was my way of fighting the enemy.

Colonel A D Wintle7:50

and to get these people to brighten their ideas up.

Presenter7:53

How long did your hunger strike last?

Colonel A D Wintle7:54

Uh thirteen days.

Colonel A D Wintle7:56

And then, at the end of the thirteenth day,

Colonel A D Wintle7:59

They gave in and said that the guards would not only be clean but agreed to my inspecting them.

Presenter8:06

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle8:06

And then they gave you a meal.

Presenter8:07

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle8:08

They well, they offered me a meal, but I told them that I usually dined at seven

Presenter8:12

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle8:12

And not at seven thirty, so they must start again tomorrow.

Colonel A D Wintle8:16

You made several attempts to escape. Um, yes, three.

Presenter8:19

Yes. And the last one was exactly.

Presenter8:23

You came back to London and then what?

Colonel A D Wintle8:25

Well then uh

Colonel A D Wintle8:27

I'm mind you, I came back weighing seven stone eight.

Colonel A D Wintle8:31

My normal weights are eleven and seven. I got that back and I went to Burma. Yes, okay. And after the war?

Colonel A D Wintle8:36

Well, just before the end of the war I came back to London and was

Colonel A D Wintle8:42

Instrumental in recruiting the various commissions of control that were being formed for Germany, Austria and Italy, and so on.

Presenter8:49

Yeah.

Presenter8:51

And then you resigned your finish.

Colonel A D Wintle8:52

Then I retired.

Colonel A D Wintle8:54

At which point I think we might

Presenter8:55

Break off for record number four. What's that game today?

Colonel A D Wintle8:58

Well, record number four, it's got nothing to do with soldiering or anything, but it's a beautiful little tune which I adore. It's called Schubert's Serenade, Stenzen.

Colonel A D Wintle9:06

And that's one I'd like to have.

Presenter9:09

Now you left the army.

Presenter9:11

Shortly after the last war, we haven't talked about your career as a writer yet. You had been writing while you were in the army.

Colonel A D Wintle9:17

Yes. Well, um

Colonel A D Wintle9:19

I it came about that I broke my leg in 1924.

Colonel A D Wintle9:25

I did not fall off my horse as a dentist might.

Colonel A D Wintle9:29

A horse fell on top of me and broke my leg.

Presenter9:32

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle9:33

An

Colonel A D Wintle9:34

I got bored with reading, so I thought that

Colonel A D Wintle9:37

Uh I'd write a book.

Colonel A D Wintle9:39

I wrote a book called The Emancipation of Ambrose.

Colonel A D Wintle9:42

It was

Colonel A D Wintle9:43

Um cooled.

Colonel A D Wintle9:46

It was translated into Spanish, into French by myself.

Colonel A D Wintle9:50

affected very well everywhere except in England. And that was the first of many books. Mostly fiction.

Presenter9:54

Venezuela

Colonel A D Wintle9:56

Mostly entirely fiction. I'm bored with fact, and I mean a report on military subjects bores me beyond endurance.

Presenter10:03

Are you right sometimes under your own name and also under and on the plus?

Colonel A D Wintle10:06

No, in those days I wrote under Nand de Blume.

Colonel A D Wintle10:09

Because

Colonel A D Wintle10:11

Uh for an officer, cabby officer.

Colonel A D Wintle10:14

Uh to be literate.

Colonel A D Wintle10:16

let alone to write.

Colonel A D Wintle10:18

is rather a disgrace.

Colonel A D Wintle10:20

and I would not have liked it to be known that I was capable of such enormities.

Presenter10:25

Now your writing career in in recent years was interrupted by a very long and and and complicated legal case.

Colonel A D Wintle10:30

Yes.

Presenter10:31

You had yet another spell of imprisonment, this time for for de-bagging a solicitor, I remember.

Presenter10:37

But you conducted your own case all the way through to to the House of Lords.

Colonel A D Wintle10:41

No It's all the way through.

Presenter10:43

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle10:43

I was so ill-advised as to be represented in the first case in the High Court.

Colonel A D Wintle10:49

which was the lowest court in which I've ever been.

Colonel A D Wintle10:52

Then, having seen the mess that the people who were representing me

Colonel A D Wintle10:57

um made of the thing.

Colonel A D Wintle11:00

I decided to chuck the whole lot out.

Colonel A D Wintle11:02

And to deal with the situation myself. So I took it through the Court of Appeal by our laws, two to one on.

Colonel A D Wintle11:09

Then I took it to the House of Lords, where I won unanimously.

Presenter11:12

This, I believe, is quite unprecedented.

Colonel A D Wintle11:15

Well, I don't know, but uh unprecedented for me, no doubt.

Colonel A D Wintle11:19

But, um, I'm told that there have been two or three cases since eighteen hundred odd.

Colonel A D Wintle11:25

when a litigant in person has won his case.

Colonel A D Wintle11:28

But I'm also told that no litigant has ever been known to win it unanimously.

Presenter11:33

As you did.

Colonel A D Wintle11:34

Yes, whether it means that the House of Lords have improved since those days or not, I don't know.

Presenter11:39

Now what else to bring the story up to date? Appearances on television? Journalism?

Colonel A D Wintle11:43

Uh you want Yeah.

Presenter11:44

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle11:44

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle11:45

Yes, I'm writing I'm always writing. Uh

Colonel A D Wintle11:48

I'm writing a book called Military Intelligence, which gives my views on that abstruse art.

Presenter11:56

Well, let's have your fifth record now, Colonel Wintle. What's that going to be?

Colonel A D Wintle11:59

Well, my fifth record is going to be light cavalry.

Colonel A D Wintle12:02

And I like this tune because I'm very fond of horses.

Colonel A D Wintle12:06

And I can see the horse's legs moving through this tune.

Presenter12:11

Supe's light cavalry overture played by the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Herbert von Carriag, which brings us now to number six.

Presenter12:19

What's that to be?

Colonel A D Wintle12:20

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle12:20

Uh good nose fast. Yes. No question of that.

Colonel A D Wintle12:24

I love it.

Colonel A D Wintle12:25

But of course it's too long for this program, probably too long for Desert Island too.

Colonel A D Wintle12:30

And so all I want from this at this juncture

Colonel A D Wintle12:34

is that song which goes

Colonel A D Wintle12:38

Je parquien, je ador, pour tois a bouirir.

Colonel A D Wintle12:43

And uh well between other social minders.

Presenter12:45

Somebody said that to me.

Presenter12:47

Asked with a familiar question, could you look after yourself on a desert island? I should think you could look after yourself anywhere.

Colonel A D Wintle12:53

Oh, I think so, yes. I mean, after all, you take I was able to look after myself.

Colonel A D Wintle12:58

Oh, all these courts when I was surrounded entirely by nothing but enemies in sight. Lawyers, you see. And so when I should be more or less alone, I should be able to relax a good deal and get on with uh something useful. Could you build a craft? Oh, I should think so. If you did, could would you try to get away?

Colonel A D Wintle13:15

Um, I shouldn't get away. You would? I mean, you'll try to get away. I should get away. If I built a craft, yes.

Presenter13:20

Eventually.

Colonel A D Wintle13:21

Again,

Presenter13:21

Yeah.

Colonel A D Wintle13:21

Can be a problem.

Presenter13:21

Yeah. Uh

Colonel A D Wintle13:22

No, I think I should aim for some rather lengthy coastline like, shall we say, that of the two Americas.

Colonel A D Wintle13:29

Which I'm fairly

Colonel A D Wintle13:32

Certain of hitting sooner or later.

Presenter13:34

Yeah.

Presenter13:35

I hope you hit it at a convenient point. Let's have a

Colonel A D Wintle13:37

Record not The seven Uh

Presenter13:40

Uh

Colonel A D Wintle13:40

Well, record number seven.

Colonel A D Wintle13:43

Is

Colonel A D Wintle13:44

Uh Vena Bluet.

Colonel A D Wintle13:46

It's a charming thing.

Colonel A D Wintle13:48

And there again, it's rather long, so I've selected a little small piece out of it.

Colonel A D Wintle13:54

I'm not the magnificent one.

Colonel A D Wintle13:57

For all the saints who from their labours rest,

Colonel A D Wintle14:00

And lifting.

Colonel A D Wintle14:03

Uh as a small boy I used to think it was for all the saints who from their neighbours rest.

Colonel A D Wintle14:09

And I thought, well anyway, these fellas are going to have a good time.

Colonel A D Wintle14:12

But then

Colonel A D Wintle14:13

Another reason why I have it is connected with my first thing, my first March.

Colonel A D Wintle14:19

Light of foot.

Colonel A D Wintle14:21

reminds me of all my friends who were killed in two wars, of whom I think every day.

Colonel A D Wintle14:27

and I never go into a public place.

Colonel A D Wintle14:31

without looking at innumerable empty chairs and think so-and-so ought to be sitting there.

Colonel A D Wintle14:37

So I s would have that him.

Colonel A D Wintle14:40

to remind me of them and to please me with its beautiful harmony.

Colonel A D Wintle14:45

Yeah.

Presenter14:45

King by the Cloister Choir.

Presenter14:48

Well, there are your eight records, Colonel. Wentle, I don't have to ask you which one you would choose, because you've already told us it would be the overture to the magic flute.

Colonel A D Wintle14:55

Oh, no question.

Presenter14:56

Yes. And you're allowed to take on the island as well as your records one luxury.

Colonel A D Wintle14:59

One luxury.

Colonel A D Wintle15:02

Well I think I should have a jolly good dog whip.

Colonel A D Wintle15:05

You wouldn't have a dog? No, no, no, dog whips all I want.

Colonel A D Wintle15:09

And I should have that handy in case

Colonel A D Wintle15:12

Uh one or two modern composers I know should offer to land on my island.

Colonel A D Wintle15:18

Or in case

Colonel A D Wintle15:21

Shall we say German troops should offer to come and train there?

Colonel A D Wintle15:25

Or even worse.

Colonel A D Wintle15:28

In case some of your previous victims should offer to land on my desert island with their own records. All right, you shall have your dog with it. Thank you. And one book apart from the Bible and Jacob.

Colonel A D Wintle15:40

Oh.

Colonel A D Wintle15:42

Well, I think I'd like a very large

Colonel A D Wintle15:44

Blank book so that I could write in it. You know, inexhaustible. Yes. So that there'd be even one page left on the day I was taken off.

Presenter15:53

All right.

Presenter15:54

And thank you, Colonel Wintel, for letting us hear your choice of Desert Island This.

Colonel A D Wintle15:58

Well, thank you very much, and I hope that those people who've been listening to me

Colonel A D Wintle16:04

will have enjoyed it and I hope my friends in the cavalry will love and appreciate

Colonel A D Wintle16:11

The

Colonel A D Wintle16:12

Cabrera Valley, which reminds us all of each other and of everything we've done together.

Colonel A D Wintle16:18

Goodbye, everyone.