Paul McCartney

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1982, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

This week we're celebrating an anniversary. It's forty years ago that I presented Desert Island Discs on the Air for the first time, and my one thousand six hundred and thirtieth castaway is, I'm happy to say, Paul McCartney, composer, musician and ex-Beatle.

Presenter0:47

Paul, how well could you endure loneliness? Perhaps for a long time.

Paul McCartney0:51

Uh good question.

Paul McCartney0:53

I give in.

Paul McCartney0:54

Next question.

Presenter0:55

No.

Paul McCartney0:56

No, no, seriously folks, how well could I endure loneliness? Um I don't really know.

Paul McCartney1:02

When I was a kid I never used to mind it too much. Since then I haven't actually been very lonely, so I haven't kinda tested it lately. But uh I never used to mind it too much. It's a quite like

Presenter1:13

Getting away on my own. Can you think of one thing you'd be particularly happy to have got away from?

Paul McCartney1:18

Yes, I would say probably people snatching photographs when I don't want to be photographed is probably the the one thing I would be glad to get away with. Do you have a big collection of discs? I mean, have you kept all the old ones? No, I'm hopeless. In fact, I wish I'd just actually bought every record I'd made, or kept the free copy they gave me, but I never have.

Presenter1:37

You haven't even got a set of your own? No.

Presenter1:39

Terrible, isn't it? Well, you've got eight to take to the

Paul McCartney1:41

The island what?

Presenter1:42

Yeah.

Paul McCartney1:42

Uh

Presenter1:42

The first book.

Paul McCartney1:42

One of the

Paul McCartney1:44

The first one is Elvis Presley's Heartbreak Hotel. To me that sort of takes me back to when I was first buying records. Up until that point it had been sort of Billy Cotton and Swing and Bebop and stuff, but suddenly rock and roll kind of burst on the scene. And Elvis was one of the first people that kind of really made me take an interest. And I remember being at school when this record came out. And um another interesting point about the record is that when we were in Nashville, much, much later after I married my wife Linda,

Paul McCartney2:17

For a birthday of mine, she managed to find out where the bass that was used on that record had got to. And it was owned by a fellow called Bill Black, who rock and roll people will know about as being Elvis' bass player. And Linda managed to get hold of it. And so I actually have got the bass that's on this record now, which is in my collection, which is pretty astonishing. And you play it.

Paul McCartney2:42

I'm not very good at playing it because I learnt on an electric bass, but I'm practising. It's a whole other set of chops, as they say in America.

Speaker 22:50

Well since my baby left me, will I find a new place to dwell? Well it's dynamite at the end of Lonely Street at Heartbreak Hotel.

Speaker 23:01

I'll be just a lonely baby. Well, I'm a so lonely.

Speaker 23:06

I'll be just so lonely, I could die.

Speaker 23:10

Oh, though it's always crowded, you still can find some room For broken-hearted mothers to crowd and droop

Presenter3:20

Elvis Presley, Heartbreak Hotel. Paul, I don't think it's news to many people that you come from Liverpool, a Liverpool Irish family. Your mother was a nurse, I believe.

Paul McCartney3:30

Yeah.

Presenter3:31

and you had the extreme misfortune to lose her when you were in your early teens.

Presenter3:35

Your father was a salesman?

Paul McCartney3:37

They are cotton salesman.

Presenter3:38

Yeah.

Presenter3:39

And more important than

Paul McCartney3:39

That a musician.

Presenter3:41

Yeah.

Paul McCartney3:41

That's right, yeah. But if you do want to know anything about taking the staple of a piece of cotton, I'll tell you sometime.

Presenter3:42

Yeah.

Paul McCartney3:47

Talk to me all about that. Um, yeah, he he used to bang about he had a little band h of his own called Jim Mack's Band. Was he trained or did he play by ear? No, he played by ear.

Presenter3:54

Was he trained or did he play by ear?

Paul McCartney3:58

I think he's a great pianist. I mean, he wasn't technically good, but he's a

Paul McCartney4:03

He used to tell me, you know, the the old thing of like if you go to a party, it's handy to be able to play a piano because then you get all the drinks brought for you and you're the life and soul of the party, you know. You weren't really

Presenter4:13

interested in what your father was playing? I was more interested in rock and roll. What was the first impact?

Paul McCartney4:20

I think probably Elvis was the sort of first thing. The first record I actually

Paul McCartney4:24

But it was Be Boppalula by Gene Vincent. Mm-hmm. At the time, those are the things that kinda just made tingles up my spine, you know.

Paul McCartney4:32

To me it seemed like a whole new direction of music. Pretty respectable people had been singing up until then, but then there was all these people in kind of crazy clothes and sort of guitars and stuff and slick back hair.

Paul McCartney4:43

Lonnie Donegan was the other big influence. That's what made all the kids buy guitars.

Presenter4:47

When did you get one? How long did you have to save up or or did somebody give you one?

Paul McCartney4:51

Well my dad

Presenter4:52

Bought me a trumpet.

Paul McCartney4:53

Uh Yeah.

Presenter4:53

Yeah.

Paul McCartney4:53

Because he'd been a trumpeter till his teeth gave out and he got false teeth and he had to give up doing the trumpet, isn't it? He was a trumpet and pianist, and uh so he bought me a trumpet.

Speaker 14:58

Yeah, yeah.

Paul McCartney5:03

'Cause I was just at the end of that thing. You know, there was a big fad there where everyone wanted to be a trumpeter. But uh I worked out that I couldn't sing and play trumpet.

Paul McCartney5:13

Brilliant, you see. Brilliant thinking.

Speaker 15:14

Prudent thinking

Paul McCartney5:15

So I I thought, well, I've got to do something about this, so I swapped the trumpet for a guitar, which I've still got the guitar. So zenith. And then I took it home and I couldn't play it at all, couldn't even begin to play it, and then I worked out it was'cause I was left handed and the guitar wasn't.

Paul McCartney5:30

So I strung it the other way around and then I was able to. Are you left-handed and everything? Yeah.

Paul McCartney5:35

Record number two.

Paul McCartney5:36

Record number two is Sweet Little Sixteen by Chuck Berry. Why? On most of the records I'm picking today, I could have chosen.

Paul McCartney5:45

Other records from these people's repertoires, like Elvis, definitely there's about twenty Elvis records. I mean, I Was the One, One Night, Don't Be Cruel, Ulsho Cup, all of those are equal favourites read Jailhouse Rock, equal favourites to Heartbreak Hotel. But I've chosen one that sort of sums them up. So with with Chuck Berry, I've just chosen Sweet Little Sixteen'cause it sort of sums him up for me.

Speaker 26:08

They really Drag it in. Yeah.

Speaker 16:10

Yeah.

Speaker 26:10

Uh

Speaker 16:11

Uh

Speaker 26:11

And Fitzburgy A

Speaker 16:14

Yeah.

Speaker 26:14

Deep in the heart of Texas.

Speaker 16:15

Uh

Speaker 26:16

And round the frisk will be

Speaker 16:18

Uh

Speaker 16:19

Uh

Speaker 26:19

Oh.

Presenter6:20

Oh my look to it.

Speaker 16:22

Uh

Presenter6:22

And down in New Orleans

Presenter6:25

All the cats gonna dance

Presenter6:33

Jacques Berry, sweet little sixteen.

Presenter6:36

You'd got your guitar. Obviously you began looking around at local groups, watching guitar technique, what what there was of it. Which groups impressed you?

Presenter6:45

Cliff and the shadows and

Paul McCartney6:46

Larney were the sort of the nationwide ones, Larney Donegan.

Paul McCartney6:50

The local ones, there was a group called Cass and the Casanovas, and I knew Cass, went to school with Cass.

Presenter6:56

Yeah.

Paul McCartney6:57

And around about that time they had a lot of skiffle contests. So a lot of my mates went into those. That was just before I'd got into a group.

Presenter7:03

Yeah.

Paul McCartney7:03

I was sort of beginning to look the part and beginning to research the whole thing kind of thing, you know. But they were the move ahead and they'd actually done it. And they did very well in this uh contest. So then after that I think we started to look for Mr. Carol Levis, who should remain nameless. Carol Levis Discoveries, and we went on one of those. How did you do that? Dates me, doesn't it? We did we failed miserably. Got beaten by a woman who played the spoons.

Speaker 17:08

Yeah.

Presenter7:08

Yeah.

Presenter7:11

Right.

Speaker 17:11

Yeah.

Presenter7:23

Date

Paul McCartney7:29

Always happened like that. We we gave up talent contests in the end. So we're never going to win. She's always going to be.

Presenter7:37

There was a group called rather unglamorously the

Paul McCartney7:39

Barim

Presenter7:39

That's

Paul McCartney7:40

Uh

Presenter7:40

Uh Now how good will it be?

Paul McCartney7:40

Yeah.

Paul McCartney7:41

Well, The Quarrymen was John's group, John Lennon's group. John went to a school called Quarry Bank, so that was why the group was called The Quarrymen.

Paul McCartney7:50

I went to this other school and one of my friends from this other school was called Ivan Vaughan and Ivy, as we called him, he used to know John, he was a neighbour of John's. So he invited me one day to this Village Fate, Walton Village Fate, and the quarrymen were playing there. It was all a bit skiffery, but uh John held the show very well, you know, I was very impressed. So I went backstage in the church hall and uh we got talking.

Paul McCartney8:16

And he'd finished his shows and he was sort of getting a bit drunk and a bit, you know, a bit loose and stuff. And I was just a couple of years younger than him. I think I must have been about fourteen when he was about sixteen, something like that. And uh I knew the words to Eddie Cochrane's Twenty Flight Rock. That meant I was in. That that was me. So you began to sit in with So I sat in, I I wrote the words out for them. Like everyone was very impressed that I knew the words and I knew a couple of chords and stuff. I thought no more of it really. Went away that day and then a couple of weeks later one of the fell us out of the group.

Presenter8:38

I get

Paul McCartney8:49

Said, you know, we'd like to ask you to join. You know, it was pretty good that knowing all the words to 20-flight robots. Very impressive.

Paul McCartney8:55

And I'd sang a bit of Little Richard stuff as well, which I used to do at that time.

Speaker 18:57

Uh

Presenter8:57

as well.

Presenter8:59

You changed to a more upmarket title, Johnny and the Moondogs. Did that make any difference?

Paul McCartney9:05

No, not at all. I mean, we we used to just uh

Paul McCartney9:09

See, my dad's band, he used to keep changing the name of his group because no one wanted them back. So the only way to get a return booking was to change the name, see, and then so they came out as everything. And uh it was a little bit that for us, until we had an audition for Larry Parnes. He was the fellow who had a lot of stable of people like um Billy Fury, Marty Wilde, um all very all these names, you know, all the Clint Thigh names, all that stuff. And uh he had some auditions up in Liverpool for groups to back these people and he had a singer called Johnny Gentle.

Speaker 19:14

So the only way to get a return bo

Presenter9:33

Very good.

Speaker 19:33

All these names, you know, all the

Paul McCartney9:44

who he wanted a backing group for and we auditioned for that.

Paul McCartney9:49

And we were the Moondogs, but I think then we ch someone at that at that audition persuaded us to change it to the Silver Beetles. What was the first taste of glory? Was that as a sport group in Scotland? On that tour with Johnny Gentle?

Presenter9:58

The tour

Paul McCartney10:02

We all went really to our heads, you know, we went mad and we sent postcards home about how people were asking for our autographs. And we changed our names. You know, we were great. I changed mine to Paul Ramon. Oh, that's nice. And all the little Scottish girls say, Is that really his name? Paul Ramon. I say, Yes, that's right, honey. You want another autograph? You know, I really thought, this is it, you know. Let's have your third record.

Paul McCartney10:27

Dances from Gloriana by Benjamin Britton and played by Julian Breen.

Paul McCartney10:33

Now my preference would always be for rock and roll, but I do like a lot of classical music. I don't know much about it, but I you know, I like the great tunes and classical music and stuff. So to sum it all up, this is probably the the favorite record that I would take. It's just there's just something special about it. I've loved it for years.

Speaker 211:44

Uh

Presenter11:44

Okay

Presenter11:50

La Volta and the finale march from the courtly dances from Gloriana, Benjamin Britton's Gloriana, played by the Julian Bream consort. So, Paul, the Beatles had played for a real management and they'd toured and they were now playing gigs, and more or less by chance you got an overseas engagement.

Paul McCartney12:07

Yeah. Some overseas promoter had come to Liverpool and he'd talked to a friend of ours who was a promoter in Liverpool. And he'd said that he wanted a bunch of Liverpool groups. I think he wanted them on the cheap kind of thing, you know, sort of some cheap rock and roll to put into his clubs. And so we were asked

Paul McCartney12:26

So I we all went round to my dad's and asked him, you know, and said, This wonderful opportunity. Everyone said, Oh, thank you.

Paul McCartney12:32

It was fifteen pounds a week, which at that time was quite good, actually. Each? Yeah. Each.

Paul McCartney12:38

So that was good. In fact, I was so impressed that I wrote a letter to my ex-headmaster saying, Well, you know, I've secured an engagement at fifteen pounds a week. I'm sure you'll agree this is pretty hot. Yeah.

Presenter12:48

I'm not sure.

Paul McCartney12:48

Yeah.

Presenter12:48

And this was the Kaiser Halloween.

Paul McCartney12:50

Yeah.

Presenter12:50

Yeah. Kaiser Keller.

Paul McCartney12:51

Kaiser Keller. Kaiser Keller. Kaiserkeller in King Cellar, yeah. In um in Große Freiheit, which is a street just off the Reperbahn, which is probably like the toughest area in Hamburg. How many hours a night did you play?

Paul McCartney13:05

I think if you work it out, sometimes we used to play about an eight hour day.

Paul McCartney13:09

We'd actually play eight hours. But um at the time it it wasted us and totally kind of wrecked us. And I remember getting home to England my dad really thought I was half dead, you know, must have looked like a skeleton.

Paul McCartney13:19

But I hadn't noticed the change. I was just having such a ball, you know, staying up late and everything and all that for a young kid.

Presenter13:24

Was there anybody to pull you together, to sort of smarten you up, provide showmanship?

Paul McCartney13:29

Yeah.

Presenter13:30

In Hamburg.

Paul McCartney13:31

When we first arrived we were, you know, very uh green bunch, and there was uh the manager, though they call him the Gescheftsführer.

Paul McCartney13:39

over there, and he was a fellow called Willie, Villy.

Paul McCartney13:42

And he used to say to us Max Schau, Max Schau, you know, make make show, make show, do something. In other words, could we used to just stand there and go through the church. It'd been enough in Liverpool. But in Hamburg,

Speaker 113:47

And hello.

Paul McCartney13:52

The the thing that we had to do was people would come to the door of the club and they'd just poke their head in and sort of look at the beer prices. And then they'd see a band vaguely there, so we'd have to go, Woohee, hey and look at us, you know, come on in and we so it was really good for us actually, good training, pulling power.

Presenter14:07

Yeah.

Paul McCartney14:08

So uh immediately anyone appeared and put their head round the door. We'd Mac Shao?

Presenter14:13

So back to Liverpool as the international favourites direct from continental success.

Paul McCartney14:18

Hamburg, yeah, all the kids in the dance halls there thought we were German'cause it said direct from Hamburg. They were all surprised to hear us speak English. Was it then that you started at the cabin?

Paul McCartney14:29

I'm pretty hazy on exactly what happened, you know, in chronological orders, because for me it was a bit of a blast, all that stuff. You know, I'm not exactly sure.

Presenter14:35

No, I'm not exactly sure.

Presenter14:37

But it would be about then. I had never visited it, but from what I hear, it seems to have been something of a a claustrophobic hell.

Paul McCartney14:44

Uh

Presenter14:44

Well, yeah.

Paul McCartney14:44

I mean, it depends who you are, you know. I loved it. It was great. It was a claustrophobic hell, but it was a great one.

Paul McCartney14:51

Let's have another record. We've got to number four. That is Beboppalula by Gene Vincent, which was the first record I ever bought, so it's a sort of special record for me. He sang it in a film called The Girl Can't Help It, and uh it was always a big favorite of mine. We got to meet Gene later when we were in Hamburg.

Paul McCartney15:10

But as I say, first record over brought big impression.

Speaker 215:13

Well beep populoo

Speaker 115:16

Lucy's My bad. Okay.

Speaker 115:22

Bibliopolo, she's my baby.

Presenter15:37

BE BOPPALULA BY JEAN VINCENT. Now the Beatles were sweating it out in the cabin, occasionally going back to Hamburg for further Continental success.

Presenter15:46

To what extent were you and John Lennon working seriously at composing and arranging? Had you started seriously?

Paul McCartney15:52

Had it started, seriously? Yes, we had. Really in very early days of the Beatles, John and I used to take time off school.

Paul McCartney16:00

and go home to my house sagging off as we used to call it.

Paul McCartney16:04

And uh we'd go to my house and I used to prepare a pipe full of typhoo tea. My dad never left any tobacco around, he left empty pipes around. So I used to smoke typhoo tea.

Paul McCartney16:16

And we used to sit around being very artsy and sort of think of ourselves as Dylan Thomas or someone, you know. And we started writing together then.

Presenter16:23

How did you work? I mean, did you sit down and work together, or did one of you get an idea and bring it to the other for a second opinion? Or how how did it

Paul McCartney16:30

Yes, well it it used to happen every way, every possible permutation really. We never got a formula. It's probably one of the good things about it. We used to just sit down with two guitars.

Paul McCartney16:41

And if neither of us had an idea, we'd just start to look for one with guitars and just start strumming and wait till one came out.

Paul McCartney16:49

Or quite often one of us would have thought of a first line or a second line or a chorus or something, and he'd start off

Presenter16:56

On that or I'd start in it. The Beatles were getting quite a good local reputation. What you really needed was a a manager to look after things, and there was one right to hand in Liverpool.

Paul McCartney17:07

Yes, there was a a fellow who had a record shop. His dad owned a record shop. And he'd been asked for a record that we'd made in Hamburg, because we'd backed someone, a fellow called Tony Sheridan. It was called Tony Sheridan and the Beat Boys. They didn't like the name Beatles. And for the German market they'd changed it to something a bit more obvious. So the only record was this one, My Bonnie, which a fellow went in and asked for it at Brian's record shop, and Brian hadn't heard of it. So he he got interested in us. And somebody said, Oh, they're just down the road at the cavern, you know. So he came in one day, looked at us, and apparently thought there was something there, you know.

Paul McCartney17:44

'Cause we were all leather and sweat at that time.

Paul McCartney17:47

He sorta cleaned up the act a little bit and said, Well, you know, we've got to kind of try for London and stuff, so you're going to have to get suits.

Paul McCartney17:54

which no one was very keen to do, but And um

Presenter17:58

So Brian was the fella, yeah. And he got you auditions for record companies, which was the important thing. Yeah.

Paul McCartney18:04

Yeah.

Presenter18:04

Uh

Paul McCartney18:04

Yeah.

Presenter18:04

None of which

Paul McCartney18:05

Would be interested in us. Everyone turned us down. Yes.

Presenter18:09

And they've been eating their hearts out ever since.

Paul McCartney18:11

Yeah.

Paul McCartney18:13

Until he found some mug, no sorry, not a mug, called George Martin. Yes, he is. Whatever happened to him.

Presenter18:18

Whatever happened to him.

Paul McCartney18:20

Well I don't know, Donna's just faded out. Yeah, yeah. No, no, folks, for anyone who doesn't know, I'm making a new record with him and he's still as terrific as ever and I really love him.

Presenter18:29

And did the company that accepted you allow you to record the Lennon-McCartney numbers, or did they want the standards?

Paul McCartney18:35

No. Uh this was one thing about George Martin. Talking to him nowadays, I can get the background story from his point of view, which we never knew then. It turned out that they tended to throw him stuff nobody else really wanted. He got all this comedy, and he was a little bit the light end of the of the record label he was on.

Paul McCartney18:53

So with us I think it had just we'd just been steered his way'cause no one else would have us. And he he thought there was something quite interesting there, but he didn't really like our early songs.

Paul McCartney19:02

He was right too, you know, Love Me Do was was but he let us make it as a record. But um at first he suggested some real songs written by real songwriters, you know, the people who were working professionally in Charing Cross, down Charing Cross, and Tim Pan Alley people. And he he brought a song called How Do You Do It? which was later a hit for Jerry and the Pacemakers. And George had a big thing about this song, and he says, It's gonna be a hit, so it's just a question of whether you want to do it or not. And we said, We really don't wanna do this and he said, Well, but just try it.

Paul McCartney19:34

So we went away and rehearsed it and did a demo of it.

Paul McCartney19:36

Which is quite good actually. You know, it's if you hear it now, it's it's not that bad. But we just said, No, we've really got a feeling, you know, we don't want to use other people's stuff. We really want to try and write our own stuff.

Paul McCartney19:46

So after much hooing and harring he he he let us do our own record, which was a minor hit, I think it got in the top twenty. So that was really the big start of it all. And uh then George got us a bit more together after that and uh we began to write a bit better stuff I think after. Let's have another record, number five.

Paul McCartney20:04

I haven't chosen any Beatle records, but if we'd had more than eight, I probably would have. I haven't chosen any of my records. So to sort of sum up the whole thing, I've chosen one off John Lennon's record Double Fantasy, uh which I think's a beautiful song. Uh it's very moving to me. Um but anyway uh so I just like to sum the whole thing up by playing a song called Beautiful Boy.

Speaker 120:33

Close your eyes.

Speaker 120:37

And no feel

Speaker 120:42

The monster's gone!

Speaker 120:44

Is on Run Yeah.

Presenter20:46

That is here.

Presenter20:50

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful ball.

Presenter20:57

John Lennon, beautiful boy.

Presenter20:59

Well, I don't think there's any need to tell the Beatles story again, Paul, of the films, the world tours, money rolling in and fantastic sums. Do you remember it as a a physically frightening time?

Paul McCartney21:12

No, not at all. No. I think the physically frightening thing is projected by the media. And I don't mean that in a bad way. They they just naturally take the sensational things that happen and play them up. And people read that and they think that was the whole story. Um no, I was never really frightened at all. I mean even when we were getting uh death threats and stuff on American tours, we used to just take it with a pinch of salt. Mind you, and it was Ringo actually got the death threat, and I don't think he took it with a pinch of salt. But we kind of just said, oh, because it was it was things like we'd be going to Quebec and it would be anti-monarchist stuff in Quebec, you know, free Canada, you know, make Canada French. Which was really nothing.

Presenter21:51

Which has really nothing to do with you.

Paul McCartney21:52

There's really nothing to it, but we sort of symbolized Britain and the Queen. But it it was all idle threats. The crowds must have been pretty frightening, B. I never really used to get frightened with the crowds at all. Uh people used to say, you know, Wow, it must be I mean, you can't go anywhere and stuff but I actually used to get most places I wanted to. You couldn't go down Oxford Street in the rush hour.

Presenter21:59

Behind the

Paul McCartney22:09

'Cause you would attract a crowd there. But you could go round all the little back streets and the antique shops and stuff. You never uh you get a you get a speed of movement where you just never attract enough or you once the crowd's about ten, you say thank you and you move and you get out and you sorta learn to slip away from it all.

Presenter22:24

There's

Paul McCartney22:28

Back to music, number six. Is a song called Searching. Uh now this is one we used to do at the cavern with the Beatles and uh we used to have little groups of fans who used to give themselves little names. There used to be a group of fans called the Cement Mixers, with some other group called the Wooden Tops. And they just make up little names for themselves, you know, being a little gang. And there was two girls called Chris and Val.

Paul McCartney22:53

And they used to sing say Sing Searchin' Paul, Sing Searchin.

Speaker 122:56

See etching.

Paul McCartney22:56

That used to be the big request from Chris and Val, sing searching.

Paul McCartney23:00

So we always used to do this one, it used to be a big request and uh it was a big favourite with the group. By the Coasters Searching.

Speaker 223:08

Fields turn out the home.

Speaker 223:11

Now we got another child on me.

Speaker 223:16

Third and Friday, Charlotte

Presenter23:20

Black.

Paul McCartney23:22

Uh

Presenter23:22

And old man

Presenter23:23

That is a high needle young hit

Paul McCartney23:26

Yeah.

Presenter23:26

Me come

Speaker 223:27

Uh

Presenter23:28

Yeah.

Speaker 123:30

Down that speed like

Presenter23:34

Searching by the coasters. Now the whole Beatles set up was put in jeopardy when Brian Epstein killed himself. I suppose there had to be a a split up with four young musicians, all with their own ideas about how the business ought to run.

Paul McCartney23:50

Yeah, well first I'm not really sure if Brian did kill himself. I've always thought that it was an accident. I don't really think he would have meant to do that. I think it was just a unfortunate mix of um pills and booze. Thing. I don't think he's the kind of fellow who'd actually would do it on purpose. There's been all sorts of rumors and stuff.

Speaker 124:01

Yeah.

Paul McCartney24:06

Personally, I don't think that was so. So what was the second part of the question?

Presenter24:10

Second part of the question was I suppose it was inevitable that the split had to happen.

Paul McCartney24:15

Yeah, I think so. I think eventually, um, we all sort of found girls and split off. You know, that obviously you could go into the reasons for years as to exactly what caused it. I think it was things like that. You know, Brian had died so the management thing was a bit more difficult. We were starting to find our own feet away from the group and becoming a little bit individual. You know, John would do a film, uh, Ringo would do something separate, I'd might do something separate.

Presenter24:22

Yeah, it's just too.

Paul McCartney24:42

So I suppose it was just an inevitable part of growing up really, that uh they happened.

Presenter24:46

Well, you're the one who continued to break records with your group Wings. You sold over two million copies of a single. Your wife, Linda, is is a member of the group, of course.

Paul McCartney24:56

Yeah, that's right. She sings. When we got married, she hadn't had any training at all. And it was one of those crazy things, really. I

Paul McCartney25:05

Beatles had split up and um I just sort of said to her, you know, Do you want to be in the group or have you got any feeling for that?

Paul McCartney25:11

She said, Yeah, you know, if you think I can do it.

Paul McCartney25:13

So, um

Paul McCartney25:15

Really at that time I because the Beatles had split up out there was not I didn't know any other way to do it.

Paul McCartney25:20

Other than return to square one, where I'd started with the Beatles, which is sort of get a van, go and do some gigs.

Paul McCartney25:27

Learn up some tunes. Hope something came of it.

Paul McCartney25:29

So that was exactly what we did. We took a van, we went out and we did uh concerts at universities and stuff. We took the kids, the dogs, everything in this van. And we used to charge fifty P at the door. Very good value for money. Of course. And all the students had come and stuff, you know, and we'd we'd just turn up at a university and say, Do you want us to play here tomorrow? you know.

Speaker 125:43

And all the students and

Paul McCartney25:49

Throw him into a blind panic.

Paul McCartney25:51

The students' union fellow'd race around and then say, Yeah, you know.

Presenter25:52

Student

Paul McCartney25:55

Okay, so you can have the dining hall or whatever it was.

Presenter25:55

So I was gonna

Paul McCartney25:58

So we used to do that.

Presenter25:59

And what about the rest of your activities? You've got a farm in Scotland?

Paul McCartney26:02

Yeah.

Presenter26:03

And a business, of course. Three children to look after.

Paul McCartney26:07

Thought

Presenter26:07

Thor. Of course you're stepchild.

Paul McCartney26:08

Of course.

Paul McCartney26:10

Yeah, well I see I never even called her a stepchild, because everyone wants to be correct and stuff, so they always call her my stepdaughter.

Paul McCartney26:16

To me she's sort of my daughter, you know, I mean it's that I I prefer not to make that I always feel it's puts her down a bit, you know. She's not quite as good as the rest, you know, I mean, we don't really treat it like that. So, yes, she is my stepdaughter, but uh I treat I th I feel like I got four kids.

Presenter26:23

As good as the rest, you know.

Paul McCartney26:31

Record number seven.

Paul McCartney26:33

is a little richer record.

Paul McCartney26:35

And uh again I've chosen just one to sum him up.

Paul McCartney26:39

But there are millions of his stuff. I like a lot of stuff that he does, and he he's a friend of mine from the Hamburg days, little Richard.

Paul McCartney26:47

The record of Chosen is Toottie Frutti.

Speaker 226:49

Walk, baba, loomaba, block, bop, bum, dooda, dooto. Oh

Presenter26:53

Doodle boot, low root.

Presenter26:57

Oh Rudy, to the food, oh Rudy.

Presenter27:01

Rudy, oh rude it.

Presenter27:04

Oh my baby ma blah baba got a girl named Su

Presenter27:09

To know just what to do.

Presenter27:11

Got a girl, name.

Presenter27:14

To know that's what to do.

Presenter27:19

Little Richard, Tooty Fruti. Paul, I read that you were a Boy Scout.

Presenter27:24

Yep.'Cause um this is important. Did you get a lot of badges?

Paul McCartney27:28

Not many, no. I uh

Paul McCartney27:31

I think I got a Bivwack badge. That's camping out, isn't it?

Presenter27:34

Yeah.

Paul McCartney27:34

That's fine.

Presenter27:36

This is going to be very useful to you, all this knowledge on your desert island training. Right.

Paul McCartney27:40

That's gonna make a fine fire.

Presenter27:42

If there's any wood on this island. Yes, indeed. Okay. Campfire cookery?

Paul McCartney27:47

Definitely.

Presenter27:47

You're a vegetarian, aren't you? Yes. And as a practical farmer, you should get the island cultivated within a year or two.

Paul McCartney27:47

You're about to

Paul McCartney27:53

That'd be good, yeah, yes, with as long as we got a bit of rain.

Presenter27:56

Would you try to escape?

Presenter27:58

Probably. Do you know anything about small crabs?

Paul McCartney28:01

No, I'm a hopeless sailor. That would be a slight difficulty. Yes.

Presenter28:04

Yeah.

Paul McCartney28:06

I probably sort of wave hankies at the passing boats.

Paul McCartney28:09

But uh I'd give it a go, I'm sure, you know, just try and escape.

Presenter28:13

Let's have r your last record.

Paul McCartney28:15

Well, um, this one is a song that was written by my dad. He only ever wrote one song, to my knowledge. And, um

Paul McCartney28:24

I once said to him, I said, Dad, you know that song you wrote? He said, I didn't write a song, son, you know. I said, But you did, you know, remember walking in the park with Aloise. He said, No, I didn't write it, I I made it up.

Paul McCartney28:35

I was saying, Well, you know, these days writing it that's what they say, you know, if you made it up, it means you write, you don't have to actually physically write it. So I said he said, Yeah, well, I know the song. I said, Well, I've recorded it with some friends of mine in uh Nashville and the friends were Chet Atkins, who I happened to be working with, and Chet brought along Floyd Kramer.

Speaker 128:50

Do I have

Paul McCartney28:54

and uh I had the drummer from a group at the time, Jeff Britton, and we got together and uh we made a little recording of this, especially to play my dad, you know. So he really used to love this one, you know.

Presenter29:34

Walking in the Park with Eloise by The Country Hams. What are you playing on that?

Presenter29:39

I'm playing bass and washboard. Washboard, very good. I admired that washboard at the end.

Presenter29:45

If you could take only one disc out of the eight you've played us, which would it be?

Presenter29:50

Yeah.

Paul McCartney29:50

I think for me it probably would be Beautiful Boy, but it'd be a very hard choice. I probably would take that record by John.

Paul McCartney29:57

And one luxury you're allowed to take nothing of any practical use.

Paul McCartney30:01

Well that definitely be a guitar, right? Because uh that's the kind of thing I can spend hours and engross myself with and write songs.

Paul McCartney30:10

And one book apart from the Bible and Chapter. Yeah.

Presenter30:12

Which are already there.

Paul McCartney30:14

Well, I was wondering whether to take a sort of a really sort of impressive book, you know, should I take Canterbury Tales in the original Chaucerian thing, you know, which is something I might take just because it'd take me forever to work it out. You know, it'd be like a crossword puzzle. And I did a little bit of that school and was vaguely interested, so that would be quite a choice. But I I plumped for a book that my wife's put out, she's called Linda's Pictures, because that's got pictures of my kids in it, and it's got a lot of stuff of Linda's, and so that is probably what I'd plump for.

Presenter30:48

A good family book. I Good Emily Buck. Linda's Pictures. And thank you, Paul McCartney, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you very much, Roy.

Presenter30:58

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 131:07

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.