Sir Frederick Ashton

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty one, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:26

Our castaway this week is one of the world's most distinguished choreographers, Sir Frederick Ashton.

Presenter0:32

Sir Frederick, music plays a big part in your life. Do you have any practical skill at it? Do you play the piano?

Sir Frederick Ashton0:37

No, I don't play anything. I was luckily born with very good ears, so that I hear everything very well, and and I have musical instincts, but the actual playing of anything, n not at all, alas. I was born in South America, and I had three brothers who were all

Sir Frederick Ashton0:53

given piano lessons, but there were

Sir Frederick Ashton0:55

so hopeless and wouldn't concentrate it on. By the time it came to me my mother couldn't be bothered, you see. And I was the one who would have benefited, which is sad. Can you read a score?

Sir Frederick Ashton1:05

Sort of, yes. Top line. Do you play discs a lot?

Sir Frederick Ashton1:10

Yes, quite a lot, a great deal.

Presenter1:12

Did you find it very difficult to choose just eight for this desert island?

Sir Frederick Ashton1:15

Yes, I did. I found it very, very difficult indeed. I could have done you four or five programmes if you wanted.

Presenter1:21

Nonsense. Well, that would have been nice.

Sir Frederick Ashton1:22

and very different ones, I think.

Presenter1:24

We'll talk to the BBC about it.

Sir Frederick Ashton1:26

And I find it rather hard to

Sir Frederick Ashton1:28

Limit oneself just to eight.

Sir Frederick Ashton1:30

What's the first one you've chosen? The Val soubliev of Liszt. And the reason I chose that because it was in a ballet that I did at Sadler's Wells and which is one of the first things that Margot Fontein did. And Constant Lambert arranged the music. And this was her first appearance. She was to dance to this music.

Sir Frederick Ashton1:50

And so it has a lot of nostalgic memories for me, of her extreme beauty and her youth as well.

Presenter1:58

Who is to play it on this record? Horowitz.

Presenter3:01

Horowitz playing Liszt's first Vals Oublier.

Presenter3:05

Now, you said you were born in South America. Did you go to an English school there?

Sir Frederick Ashton3:10

No, I d I didn't. I went to the Dominican Fathers. There were two big schools in in Lima at that time, and one was run by the Jesuits and the other was run by the Dominicans. And it depended on which school the President's sons were at. That was the elegant school to go to. Anyway, I went to the Dominicans, and there, of course, we although I'm I naturally spoke Spanish, we did all our lessons in French.

Presenter3:36

When and how did you develop your first interest in dancing?

Sir Frederick Ashton3:39

Ah, well that was another matter. That was because round about nineteen seventeen Anna Pavlova came out on one of her tours, which she did all over the world.

Sir Frederick Ashton3:49

came to South America and my mother thought that it should be part of our education to to see her. So we were all taken. It meant nothing to my other brothers, which was also the first day we ever went in a motor car. And they were thrilled with this and wanted the performance to finish and all to get back into the motor car. But I I I didn't care at all about it. I just took it for granted and I was only f riveted by the performance, which is the first time I'd ever been in a theater.

Sir Frederick Ashton4:17

Uh

Presenter4:17

and the dance struck you as a world that you wanted to inhabit.

Sir Frederick Ashton4:21

I think so. I think it almost immediately must have done, I think.

Presenter4:25

Did you discuss your new enthusiasm with your parents?

Sir Frederick Ashton4:28

Or I wouldn't have dared.

Presenter4:30

Yeah.

Sir Frederick Ashton4:30

I mean, you know, middle class parents in that period, I mean, been desperately shocked. So you saw virtually no more dancing?

Sir Frederick Ashton4:38

Not really, other than dancing by the Indians and dancing by Spanish troops and things like that, but otherwise not at all. Nothing.

Presenter4:45

Now you came to England and went to school at Dover College, a drafty spot after leaving sunny South America.

Sir Frederick Ashton4:52

I'm certainly not.

Presenter4:53

It won't be a very good thing.

Sir Frederick Ashton4:53

So I can tell you. I can no I shall never forget to this day the the size of my fingers with chill blanes, which was all because there was no heating in those days. I mean there were just pipes around the classrooms. And the moment one had an opportunity one used to rush and sit on these pipes and get these appalling chill blanes. And also one was forced to sleep with one's window open. And so one would have to go up to bed and knock the snow off the pillows even. I mean it was really Tom Brown's school days.

Presenter5:22

Did you have any successes at school?

Sir Frederick Ashton5:24

And in what way?

Presenter5:25

Well, in any way.

Sir Frederick Ashton5:26

No, I think utter failure in every way. I mean, I was sort of a dead loss to to Dover College.

Presenter5:34

But being in England, at any rate, you were able to see some ballet.

Sir Frederick Ashton5:37

In the holidays, yes, I did. So during that time I also saw Isadora Duncan.

Presenter5:43

Yes.

Sir Frederick Ashton5:43

I'm sort of one of the few people alive who saw her. And she made a big impression. She made a very big impression indeed, yes. I mean, she was quite different from Pablo because she was a free dancer.

Sir Frederick Ashton5:54

And like Pablo who danced rather

Sir Frederick Ashton5:57

Palm court kind of music. It's a door that danced to um, you know, really good music, Chopin and Liszt and Brahms and Schubert and even Wagner.

Presenter6:08

What to do?

Sir Frederick Ashton6:08

Uh We never left school.

Presenter6:09

Yeah.

Sir Frederick Ashton6:11

Well, I was supposed to I mean, everybody's wish was that I should go to Cambridge because my mother wanted me to go into the diplomatic service. But I couldn't pass any exams, you see, because I was so ill educated.

Sir Frederick Ashton6:23

So that was hopeless, and so then they didn't know what to do, and I didn't dare.

Sir Frederick Ashton6:27

reveal my secret to anybody, so I was put into the city.

Sir Frederick Ashton6:31

Yes. And I was in city for a year and a half at an export merchant's

Sir Frederick Ashton6:36

What we

Presenter6:37

What are you doing about your d

Sir Frederick Ashton6:37

Dancing interesting. Ah, well th then I read in the paper that Massine would give a class to anybody to see whether they had talent and whether to it was worthwhile their pursuing

Sir Frederick Ashton6:50

It may have been a sort of way of of getting pupils. Anyway, I went to him and and he said that he I had the possibility and so I used to go every Saturday afternoon and have a private lesson for him.

Presenter7:00

Had you done any dancing at all?

Sir Frederick Ashton7:02

No, nothing at all, no.

Presenter7:03

And you just went in and waved your arms about and

Sir Frederick Ashton7:06

No, well, I mean, not a bit of it. You went in there and you had to do all the exercises and things. And after a few lessons I said, Well, this is all very well, all these exercises. When are you going to teach me a dance? He said, In three years' time. And so I went home and practically wept at the thought.

Presenter7:22

Well nevertheless you've taken your first steps as a dancer. Let's have your second record. Watch your second record.

Sir Frederick Ashton7:26

My second record is Symphonic Variations, The Interlude, played by Moira Limpany. Why? There again, because it was one of the favourite ballets that I ever did. Because after the war, when I came back from the RAF, this was the first thing that I did. And I did it because at that time I thought that the tendency in the ballet was too literary. Every everything was based on books and novels and plays. And I wanted to bring it back to pure dancing. This was an abstract ballet. Yes, this was an abstract ballet. And somehow it worked and came off. And it was really rather like a sort of credo.

Presenter7:57

Yes

Sir Frederick Ashton8:03

On my butt.

Presenter9:01

An excerpt from Symphonic Variations by Cesare Franck.

Presenter9:04

The Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Walter Susskind with Mura Lempeny.

Presenter9:10

So one lesson with Massine every Saturday afternoon. Obviously it was not enough.

Sir Frederick Ashton9:15

Well, eventually he said that.

Sir Frederick Ashton9:17

He said that to me and I said, Well, what am I to do? I don't know how I can

Sir Frederick Ashton9:20

Changed that. He said, Oh, well, then for the while, see if you can come after you finish work at six o'clock on Wednesdays. And so I did that for a bit. And then finally, in the end, he said to me, You're starting late as it is, and you really must come every day, or it's no good. So then I didn't know what to do, and so I then finally staged a nervous breakdown. And I just went to bed and pretended I was very, very ill. And then w we must have had a very wise old doctor for that sort of period, because he came to me and he said, You know, there's nothing the matter with you, but what is it?

Sir Frederick Ashton9:54

He said, Tell me, and so I did and and then he

Sir Frederick Ashton9:57

He listened to me and then he went to my mother and said that I was you know a very sensitive child and it might affect me mentally if I wasn't allowed to do what I wanted and so that rather alarmed her. And from that moment she conceded that I should do it and I had a brother who was doing quite well in South America at the time and he said, well I'll pay for the tuition. So that's how I was able to do it.

Presenter10:20

That was a very sensible darkness. Now your first recorded professional appearance was in a concert on the Palace Pier Brighton on a Good Friday with three other young dancers. Do you agree with that? Yes, I do.

Sir Frederick Ashton10:31

Oof.

Presenter10:32

Yeah.

Sir Frederick Ashton10:32

Uh

Sir Frederick Ashton10:32

I think we must have been four actually. We did a sort of kind of a pseudo-Spanish dance. And I remember being terribly nervous at the time of going there. And I remember saying goodbye to my bed and saying, Well, I'll see you later on and I hated leaving it and I thought, Well, this is so strange that here am I this is what I've wanted to do all my life and that when it comes to it I'm absolutely dreading it.

Presenter10:55

But it went all right.

Sir Frederick Ashton10:56

Yes, sort of, I think.

Presenter10:58

and then some staged prologues to silent film.

Sir Frederick Ashton11:02

I is in cinema at the Shepherd's Bush Cinema.

Sir Frederick Ashton11:05

And we did the prologue to

Sir Frederick Ashton11:08

A film of Rudolph Valentino and we did a kind of Hungarian dance in front of it because they used to have those shows before big films in those days. Mhm. And they'd have dancing all.

Sir Frederick Ashton11:21

Some kind of entertainment.

Presenter11:23

When did you start arranging dances as well as dancing yourself?

Sir Frederick Ashton11:27

Oh, that was after I continued my lessons with Massey, and then he went got an engagement in Paris. So he sent me to marry Rombert.

Sir Frederick Ashton11:36

And then I continued training with her. And then she got an offer from Nigel Playfair to do a ballet for Riverside Nights. The Review. The Revue. Which had been at the Lyric Hammersmith. And then during the strike it had moved into the West End. And it was going back to the Lyric Hammersmith. So he needed something to bring an interest to it. And so he asked her to do a ballet for it. And then she d she was talking to me about it. And I said, Oh, well, you should do this, you should do the other. And she does she said, Why don't you do it? I said, What do you mean, Dark? I couldn't possibly. And she said, Of course you could, come on. And so she encouraged me to do it. And that's

Presenter12:15

That's really how I first started. At that time, was there any permanent ballet company of any kind in this country? No. Not English, no.

Sir Frederick Ashton12:22

Uh That's why you went off to Paris? Yes. Well, I mean, the rombe had just about started then.

Sir Frederick Ashton12:28

And I went off to Paris in nineteen twenty nine. Whose company was that?

Sir Frederick Ashton12:34

which was um a tremendously lavishly run company because she was very well backed and supported and so she was able to put on everything very lavishly. She did nine new ballets and she was able to commission scores from people like Stravinsky. She did she commissioned La Bals and Boler from Ravel. She had orchestrations by Honegger. I mean everything was done in a tremendously

Sir Frederick Ashton13:00

You know, the best possible way. Very hard work, I believe, for the best. Very hard work, of course, yes.

Presenter13:03

Very hard.

Sir Frederick Ashton13:05

How long did you say

Presenter13:06

With the company.

Sir Frederick Ashton13:06

Yeah.

Presenter13:06

Yeah.

Sir Frederick Ashton13:08

Yeah. And it was wonderful for me because while I was there I had the opportunity to work with with Nizhinska, you know, the sister of Nizhinski who was most marvellous choreographer and wonderful Maitreya Ballet. And I learnt practically everything I know from her. And then also with Massin we worked with he was also there doing ballets.

Speaker 213:22

Uh

Sir Frederick Ashton13:28

So, I mean, it was lucky to fall into those hands early on.

Sir Frederick Ashton13:32

Let's have your

Presenter13:33

Third record, what's that?

Sir Frederick Ashton13:34

My third record is some monotones of Erik Sati.

Sir Frederick Ashton13:38

which I like very much and to which I did.

Sir Frederick Ashton13:42

Abatico Monotones.

Sir Frederick Ashton13:44

Actually there are two sections to it, but this is in the first section. There are three rather sort of astral figures. And um it's a lovely piece of music.

Presenter14:53

Gymnopedy number one Slow and Sad by Eric Sati from Monotones.

Presenter14:59

John Lanchbury conducting the orchestra of the Royal Opera House, Cobb and Gunn.

Presenter15:04

I believe it was shortly after your return to England after that year with Ida Rubenstein that you devised what was really your first ballet from Peter Warlock's Capriole Suite.

Presenter15:15

Where did you come across that?

Sir Frederick Ashton15:17

I think I m I must have heard it at uh maybe at a concert.

Sir Frederick Ashton15:21

'Cause I used to go to quite a lot of concerts in those days because I mean, there wasn't much music from the BBC in tho those days. And anyway, it was such an elaborate contraption you had to put on to listen to it that one sort of went to concerts a great deal. Where was it today?

Sir Frederick Ashton15:36

It was staged w with with the Ballaromba at the Luke Hammersmith first time.

Presenter15:40

How things were moving in the Bairleigh World the Camargo Society was formed.

Sir Frederick Ashton15:44

Yes, the Camargo Society was formed. This was after the death of Diagliff, though, that that was formed. The death of Pavlov and Diaglif, which followed within a year of each other.

Sir Frederick Ashton15:54

I mean, meant that sort of the Russian ballot, such as one knew it, was finished, you know.

Presenter16:00

Yes.

Sir Frederick Ashton16:00

Then, I mean, after them, Diego de Basil came up and resuscitated a great deal, but of course the Pavlova company without her just disappeared.

Sir Frederick Ashton16:10

And the ballet club started. Yes, that was started about that time too.

Presenter16:15

and, indeed, shortly afterwards the Vic Wells Ballet, which we're celebrating the fiftieth anniversary this year.

Presenter16:21

In fact, this month,

Presenter16:22

And which is now, of course, the Royal Valley. Yes.

Presenter16:26

You didn't join the Big Wells for several years after the school.

Sir Frederick Ashton16:28

I joined the Saddler's Wells, it was called then in about 1935.

Presenter16:33

Further.

Sir Frederick Ashton16:33

I had worked with them before, but I hadn't actually um done any creation for them. The first ballet I did was um De Rendezvous in nineteen thirty three, which was an arrangement by Constant Lambert.

Sir Frederick Ashton16:46

And the next very next day I went to New York, steerage on the Ile de France, to do um an opera of Virgil Thompson's with an entirely black cast called Four Saints in Three Acts.

Presenter16:58

And when you returned to London, you kept busy by working a lot in the in the West End Theatre in reviews and musicals.

Sir Frederick Ashton17:06

Well, I had to do that I mean one had to do that to keep alive because the performances at the ballet club are are simply on Sundays and I I think one got five shillings a week for a per for a performance.

Presenter17:17

Are any of those light-hearted jobs, the reviews or or whatever, that that you remember with affection? At one time you worked with the crazy gang, didn't you?

Sir Frederick Ashton17:26

Yes, I worked with Crazy Gang in a show called Round About Regions. Well, that was hardly a pleasure, I tell you, because they're terrible people and they used to

Sir Frederick Ashton17:33

do everything to make life impossible for one.

Sir Frederick Ashton17:37

I remember George Black, who was the producer, said, If you have any trouble with them, just send for me. And he said, I'll tell you exactly what they'll do. When you start to show them a dance, they'll say, Could you show it to me again? And then you show it to them again. They go on like this till you drop on the floor with exhaustion. So when it came to the third time, they said to me, Could you do it again? I said, Yes, and I did it three times and they said, Would you do it again? And I said, My my understudy will show it to you and I'm not going to do it any more for you. And so then they stopped Van Duna.

Presenter18:06

Oh, well done.

Sir Frederick Ashton18:07

Then I did shows with Cochrane, you see, as well, and Charlotte, and that's what kept me alive.

Presenter18:13

Now when you joined the Vic world,

Presenter18:16

What was it as, as a dancer, a choreographer, or pet?

Sir Frederick Ashton18:18

Both. Both, both, yes. But I think Moore's a choreographer, really.

Sir Frederick Ashton18:23

But I I mean I did dance with in those days, you see, male dancers were at a premium. Yes. You know, there weren't many of us around.

Sir Frederick Ashton18:30

Even bad as we were, we still all got jobs, you know. And I remember when we worked with the ballin in the operas.

Sir Frederick Ashton18:38

At Covent Garden. I had to do the arrangement, arranging with, I've forgotten what his name was, who was running it, and

Sir Frederick Ashton18:45

I went in to say how much we wanted and I said we we need five pounds.

Sir Frederick Ashton18:51

And he said, Oh, I couldn't possibly pay you five pounds. I mean, that's far too much. I mean, it's r ludicrous I couldn't possibly do that. I said, You won't get anybody to work for less than five pounds and a pound for rehearsals.

Sir Frederick Ashton19:02

And so then at the end of the when we the week came, we opened our pay packets and we found enormous amount of money. And I'd been talking about five pounds a week and he was talking five pounds a performance, which is the way s singers usually get paid by performance.

Presenter19:13

Which is the way it's singers.

Presenter19:16

Yes, oh splendid. So that worked out all right.

Sir Frederick Ashton19:17

So what you're saying worked out very well.

Presenter19:20

Uh Another record Uh

Sir Frederick Ashton19:22

This time having Schubert's quintet in C major.

Sir Frederick Ashton19:26

And I've chosen that because I think it's the most wonderful, noble, tragic music.

Sir Frederick Ashton19:32

And whenever I'm in that mood or upset about the loss of somebody, I always put this on and wallow in it. This is the slow movement. The slow movement.

Presenter20:29

The adagio from Schubert's Quintet in C major, the Amadare String Quartet, plus William Pleith.

Presenter20:36

Sir Frederick, what does a choreographer do?

Presenter20:38

Does he provide the basic idea in every case?

Sir Frederick Ashton20:42

No, not necessary. No, no, no. He I mean, somebody else could supply the basic idea.

Sir Frederick Ashton20:48

And somebody else could even suggest the music to you.

Sir Frederick Ashton20:52

But in my case mostly I f find the music myself.

Sir Frederick Ashton20:56

And I found the idea myself and

Sir Frederick Ashton20:59

then might work out my idea with a musician to see that, you know, I really know what I'm doing. And m my process is to learn the music thoroughly, thoroughly, and then to adapt my idea, say if it's

Sir Frederick Ashton21:16

Barely like a month in the country which has a story. I mean to find the m the music that's apt for it and put the steps to it. But I prepare, as it were, a kind of scaffolding for the whole thing and the structure of the whole thing. But I don't do any steps or any of that sort till I'm actually with the dancers. And to work with the designer of course. Oh yes, of course, yes. One has to work with them because designers can do in terrible things. I mean they can make costumes that nobody can move in and

Presenter21:45

It's been said of you that you demand the impossible and get it. Do you think that's fair comment?

Presenter21:51

Are you tough on your cast, and your musicians and designers?

Sir Frederick Ashton21:56

I'm tough in the sense that I'm I'm not I mean, I'm not not insulting them or that's all, but I mean I just can be quite persistent in in getting what I require out of them, certainly.

Sir Frederick Ashton22:07

But in not in a disagreeable way. I mean it's generally it's generally quite amicable.

Presenter22:09

I'll generate it.

Presenter22:11

Well, as a dancer yourself, you know what is possible.

Sir Frederick Ashton22:14

Yes, exactly.

Presenter22:16

Another record

Sir Frederick Ashton22:17

Well this time we'll go from the sublime, not to the ridiculous, but to a s sublime to something more easy. Yidithe Piaf singing La Vien Rose. And I've always had rather a leaning towards French desserts and so and she was such a magnificent one that I'm glad to represent her.

Presenter22:59

Hi, La Bien Rose.

Presenter23:01

You were a director of the Royal Ballet for a number of years. How did you take to administration?

Sir Frederick Ashton23:08

Well, I I felt that it was almost like a dynasty. I mean, I I seemed to be the rightful heir after Dame Lynette, and and so therefore there was no question of of even thinking whether one should or whether one shouldn't.

Sir Frederick Ashton23:20

In a way I didn't like it because I'm not very fond of discontent and I never liked the dancers being discontented and coming all the time and saying why aren't I doing this and why is so-and-so doing it not me and I hated all that aspect of it and I really felt that I was wasting my time, that it would be much better had I just concentrated on doing choreography than than administrating. But it it had its moments of tremendous compensation. I mean say after seasons in New York when the the whole company was a great success. I mean that gave one a great deal of satisfaction of course. When did you retire from the company?

Sir Frederick Ashton23:56

Uh I don't don't ask me dates, I don't know.

Presenter23:59

Well, whatever it was, yeah. Well, since then you've been as busy as ever.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:00

Quite recent.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:04

Well, n not completely so busy, but I mean I did embark on films for a bit. I did um The Tales of Beatrix Potter. Which was a great success. Yes, well I'm glad it was, because uh I hoped that I would make a great deal of money out of it, but I haven't. I've made a certain amount, but not as much as I'd hoped.

Presenter24:12

Yeah, so do you

Presenter24:22

Those are times here.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:23

Yeah.

Presenter24:24

And of course a month in the country, which you've already mentioned that the most successful valley since your so-called retirement.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:27

Now it's

Sir Frederick Ashton24:28

Let's make sure.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:31

Yes.

Presenter24:31

And you've continued to dance, notably your celebrated shy, ugly sister in your own Cinderella.

Presenter24:38

Well, sort of, I mean, if you yes, all right.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:41

Uh

Presenter24:41

Cool. But dancing

Sir Frederick Ashton24:42

Uh

Presenter24:43

Yeah.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:43

Livy gold

Presenter24:43

Livy gold at Dalcy Yeah.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:45

Uh

Presenter24:45

And very hard work, I should say.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:46

Yes, well puffing, very puffing, certainly the first act is quite exhausting.

Presenter24:50

Have you got anything else that is

Presenter24:53

Drewing at this time.

Sir Frederick Ashton24:53

Brewing, as they say? Not not really. Not really. Thank goodness.

Presenter24:56

Really?

Presenter24:58

Thank goodness.

Sir Frederick Ashton25:00

Record number six. Number six is the Anagetto from Les Biche, which is a ballad with choreography by Bronislava Nzinska.

Sir Frederick Ashton25:08

which is a ballet I've always adored from the first time I saw it in about nineteen twenty six, I suppose, and which when I was director I had her come and do it for the Royal Ballet, and I simply adore it.

Presenter26:27

The Adagiato from Les Biche by Poulanc, conducted by Georges Pretre.

Presenter26:34

Now at the moment you must be very busy with all these celebrations. A lot of revivals of your own ballets for the fiftieth anniversary.

Presenter26:42

And functional

Sir Frederick Ashton26:43

Well, lots of functions. There seem to be lunches and and I don't know, interviews and

Sir Frederick Ashton26:49

All that kind of thing goes on and not only here, but then wh when the company gets to America they'll have the same thing all over again there.

Presenter26:56

You're going with them?

Sir Frederick Ashton26:58

Um not certain, not certain yet.

Presenter27:01

Tell me about the Fred step, that little sequence of steps with which, as it were, you sign your ballets. Where where did that originate? And do you still use it?

Sir Frederick Ashton27:11

Yes, I use it in everything. I put it in somewhere in everything. I mean, sometimes in quite different rhythms, so that you wouldn't even recognize it because I put it in one sort of rhythm at one time, another kind of rhythm another time, so that you you you wouldn't be unless you knew that it was it, you wouldn't be all that aware. But it has to go in because of luck. I mean, I

Sir Frederick Ashton27:31

We'd be absolutely very worried if it wasn't in there. When did you first use it? On that I can't remember. Quite a way back.

Sir Frederick Ashton27:38

Quite a way back.

Sir Frederick Ashton27:39

And sometimes when I've been so wrapped up in what I'm doing, people said to me, You've forgotten to put it in I said, Oh my god, we must find a place to put it in, and so we do.

Presenter27:45

I saw my

Presenter27:49

Good. Your seventh record.

Sir Frederick Ashton27:51

My seventh record is Elga, Enigma Variations of the Nimrod Variation, which I find w a very noble piece of music and which I loved especially when Adrian Bolt conducted it and he made it so stirring.

Sir Frederick Ashton28:07

And there again I used very simple.

Sir Frederick Ashton28:11

approach to it because I found the music so overwhelmingly beautiful that I felt I couldn't do anything too elaborate and so I did with just three of them. I mean something really very, very simple.

Sir Frederick Ashton28:22

And somehow it it it worked very very well that way.

Presenter29:19

Nimrod from Elgar's Enigma Variations.

Presenter29:22

The London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Adrian Belt.

Presenter29:26

Now, Sir Frederick, it's a very pleasant island you're on, as islands go. It has everything you need, if you're ingenious enough to use it. How do you think you'd be as a castaway? Could you build somewhere to live?

Sir Frederick Ashton29:37

I I should be dead in a week, I think.

Sir Frederick Ashton29:39

I'd be helpless. I can't do anything. What are you going to eat?

Sir Frederick Ashton29:44

Well, I suppose if there were some berries around because I couldn't catch a fish or Be careful of berries. Some of them are very dangerous. It would be lovely if I poisoned myself. It would save lots of trouble.

Presenter29:49

Some of them are very different.

Presenter29:54

Could you get some fruit down from the trees? Can we?

Sir Frederick Ashton29:55

Oh yes, that I could just do. Can you climb trees? Yes, yes, I can climb trees.

Sir Frederick Ashton30:01

Would you try to escape?

Sir Frederick Ashton30:03

Yes, if it was possible, but I mean, if you're surrounded by water, I mean, w where would you escape to?

Presenter30:08

Where to is up to you, but uh w would you try to make a raft?

Sir Frederick Ashton30:12

No, I think I'd go on to the highest point and wave an old shirt or something tied to a piece of stick.

Sir Frederick Ashton30:20

Good. That's the most I could do, I think.

Presenter30:20

Good.

Presenter30:22

Well, at any rate you're trying.

Sir Frederick Ashton30:24

Oh yeah.

Presenter30:25

And that brings us to your last record. What's that?

Sir Frederick Ashton30:28

The last record is the piano concerto of Mozart's slow movement.

Sir Frederick Ashton30:32

which I think of extreme beauty.

Sir Frederick Ashton30:35

And also nice to finish on my favourite composer of all, which is Mozart.

Presenter31:28

The Andante from Mozart's Concerto for Piano and Orchestra, number twenty one, in C major, and the conductor Geza Ande.

Presenter31:37

Well, thank you for letting us hear your aid record.

Presenter31:40

And, having heard them, I don't think there's any doubt, Sir Frederick, that you are a romantic.

Sir Frederick Ashton31:45

I'm I think that's true.

Presenter31:47

If you could take only one disc out of the eight, which would it be? I would take the the Mozart, the last one, which is my favourite composer, as I said before. And we're allowing you to take one luxury to the island, any one object that would give you pleasure to have.

Sir Frederick Ashton32:01

Well, I mean, what would have given me great pleasure would have a ton of caviar, but then of course it wouldn't be.

Presenter32:05

You can have a ton of caveats.

Sir Frederick Ashton32:07

Can I, but it but it wouldn't keep.

Sir Frederick Ashton32:09

And probably better to have two packs of cards so I can while away the time playing patience.

Presenter32:14

All right, and one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare books.

Sir Frederick Ashton32:17

Well, I think I'd like to have La Roche du Tempel dieu by Proust in French, but I would also like the concession of having a French dictionary, so that by the time I was rescued I would my French would be greatly improved. I might be rescued by a French boat, and that would

Presenter32:33

That can be arranged.

Sir Frederick Ashton32:34

So that's what I'd like.

Presenter32:36

And thank you, Sir Frederick Ashton, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Presenter32:41

Goodbye, Villa.

Speaker 132:49

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/radio four.