Ronald Lockley

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1980, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:29

This week, our castaway is the naturalist Ronald Lockley.

Presenter0:34

Ronald, you're a Welshman, of course.

Ronald Lockley0:36

Well, I was born in Cardiff. I'm a really a mungrel, but I've lived most of my life in Wales.

Presenter0:42

And you're one of those people who's always wanted to live on a small island. Yes, that's true, yes.

Presenter0:48

Is music important to you?

Ronald Lockley0:51

Yes, I think it was very unimportant when

Ronald Lockley0:54

I was a small boy,'cause mother had a school and made all of her six children play the scales. Yes. And we got so bored with this that we

Ronald Lockley1:04

I think we became unmusical. But later on I began to appreciate music and love it.

Presenter1:09

Uh Whoever get beyond the scale.

Ronald Lockley1:10

Yeah.

Presenter1:11

What?

Ronald Lockley1:11

Oh, I could play a few fancy pieces. I think I could play them now out of my head.

Ronald Lockley1:16

Do you play records a lot?

Presenter1:18

Oh no it is.

Presenter1:19

Yes, I play quite a lot of records.

Presenter1:21

Did you find it difficult to narrow your choice down to just eight?

Ronald Lockley1:25

Yes, I think I thought you were a bit mean, Roy, and only given me eight. I could have given you sixteen easily.

Presenter1:31

Right. Well, eighty tiers, and what's the first one?

Ronald Lockley1:35

It's called the Twelve Days of Christmas, and I want to

Speaker 11:37

Uh

Ronald Lockley1:39

say that um it goes far back to my childhood.

Ronald Lockley1:43

When we were six young children,

Ronald Lockley1:45

Brought up more or less single handed by mother.

Ronald Lockley1:49

And

Ronald Lockley1:51

We lived very frugally we c w she couldn't afford to give us presents, but we had a fairy godmother.

Ronald Lockley1:58

who each Christmas sent us wonderful presents.

Ronald Lockley2:01

We never saw this godmother she was known to us as Miss Peters.

Ronald Lockley2:07

But she was evidently a rich, kind spinster living in London, who somehow heard of mother's predicament.

Ronald Lockley2:13

And every Christmas she sent us a marvellous parcel, and in this parcel was a present for each of us. She was really our fairy godmother, my true love she was in those days. And when I hear that record I can hear the days of my youth.

Speaker 22:32

On eleventh day of Christmas pentrop six to meet, ten pipers piping, ten bots are living, nine babies dancing, eight kids are milking, seven socks are screaming, six kids are living, five golden

Speaker 22:54

Yeah.

Speaker 22:56

The portage in the bad screen

Presenter3:00

The twelve days of Christmas, the choir of Saint John's College, Cambridge.

Presenter3:05

Were you brought up in the in the city of Cardiff?

Ronald Lockley3:07

No, I was brought up in a little village just outside.

Ronald Lockley3:11

from the age of about four.

Presenter3:13

Now you told us

Presenter3:14

rather vaguely of of your mother's predicament. Now, you're one of a quite big family.

Ronald Lockley3:19

Yeah.

Presenter3:19

Yeah.

Ronald Lockley3:19

Yes, one of six. We had a marvellous father.

Ronald Lockley3:23

whom we hardly ever saw. A rather eccentric man, I gather. Well, he was unlucky in that he was born a squire's son, and suddenly

Ronald Lockley3:32

The fortunes of my grandfather Abraham, who kept a racing stable, collapsed, and Harry was thrown out at the age of sixteen to earn his living with no better qualification than a love of horses and a love of gambling. It's not enough. Well, he married my mother, and while she had six children, one after the other, he managed to keep the home going.

Ronald Lockley3:54

But at the end of that he something disgraceful happened and he had to go away from Cardiff.

Ronald Lockley3:59

where we were all born, and went to live in London and we didn't see him except

Ronald Lockley4:04

on holidays when he came. But he never brought me money. He always gambled it on horses.

Ronald Lockley4:11

And I think poor old mother

Ronald Lockley4:14

with two sons, four of my sisters, and this man, whom I think she still loved, but he was a kind of black sheep of the family.

Ronald Lockley4:23

And uh she had to do everything and bring us up.

Presenter4:26

You said that she started a school. Well, she had a good, promising intake of six pupils for a start, didn't she?

Ronald Lockley4:33

Yes, five of us and just one other outside. And I remember looking the other day I kept the record.

Ronald Lockley4:39

which mother actually left. The first term fees, would you believe it, was one pound a term music extra. How much? But she built up to a hundred pupils and she did very well in the end.

Speaker 14:48

But

Presenter4:48

But he built up

Presenter4:51

Uh

Speaker 24:51

Yeah.

Presenter4:51

Damn screw.

Presenter4:53

A hundred pupils. That, uh yes, that was a a fine enterprise.

Presenter4:56

Were you always a country boy at heart?

Ronald Lockley5:01

Well, I think I became one um almost by accident. I was a weakly character, or physically very weak, and uh

Ronald Lockley5:08

I had two serious accidents.

Ronald Lockley5:11

which meant that I had to sit very still for three months, on both occasions.

Ronald Lockley5:16

Now mother had taken over the next door house, which had a lovely orchard. This is in Whitchurch.

Ronald Lockley5:23

near Cardiff. And I was put in the summer days to sit in this chair.

Ronald Lockley5:29

very bored with myself, and slowly I began to look at birds and keep records and wildflowers. And I think it was from the accident almost of keeping a record, a diary, that I became interested in writing and in nature, and I've kept it up ever since. I suppose that's how I began to become a naturalist.

Presenter5:48

Let's break off your second record. What's that?

Ronald Lockley5:51

I'd like to have Greg Salvad's song.

Ronald Lockley5:54

From Peregent.

Ronald Lockley5:56

Sometimes I would find mother weeping in those early days, because of the problem of bringing up us six children on very little and struggling to make a school.

Ronald Lockley6:08

And I thought it pictured when I first heard that marvellous song

Ronald Lockley6:13

I thought, well, there's mother, that's mother, waiting and longing for her Harry to come back and look after her.

Speaker 26:22

And the children would be so ceased, disordered.

Speaker 26:38

What is he can each and roast the place of increased?

Speaker 16:39

And reach out to me.

Speaker 26:46

Topics are in peace.

Speaker 26:56

He shall be dying of heart.

Speaker 27:06

Peace through

Presenter7:18

Solve song from Grieg's Pir Gynd.

Presenter7:21

Ilse Hollweg with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beecham.

Presenter7:27

Now you went to Cardiff High School, Ronald. Were you good at school?

Ronald Lockley7:32

Uh

Presenter7:32

Yeah.

Ronald Lockley7:32

Well, it was pretty b

Presenter7:33

That

Ronald Lockley7:33

And

Presenter7:33

Indeed.

Presenter7:34

You ran a natural history magazine.

Ronald Lockley7:37

Oh yes, that's right.

Ronald Lockley7:39

Well, that was a feeling, I suppose, about nature. I was uh just like any other schoolboy, willing to take birds' eggs. But I had this early desire to write something about what I saw and recorded.

Presenter7:52

What was your ambition, Ronald? How did you think you were going to earn your living when you left school?

Ronald Lockley7:57

Well, I failed matriculation. I wanted to get out of the land and I started at first thinking I would grow herbs and be a herb farmer. That was impracticable.

Ronald Lockley8:08

I became a poultry farmer, but all the time I was looking out.

Ronald Lockley8:12

for my ideal island, and at last I found one.

Presenter8:15

Why this island? How do you think that came, this this preoccupation with the solitary? Was it a a a kind of retreat from society?

Ronald Lockley8:24

Yeah, I was always and always have been an escapist and uh

Ronald Lockley8:28

After reading Thoreau's Walden, I thought, well, there's a man who expresses everything I

Ronald Lockley8:35

really want in life. I want to get away, live simply.

Ronald Lockley8:38

Find my own food.

Ronald Lockley8:40

And uh as I say, I was fortunate when I was twenty three, I think, to find the little island of Stokeham, off the coast of Wales. Well, we'll talk about Stokeham in a in a minute. Let's have another record first.

Ronald Lockley8:52

We'll have lay silphies.

Ronald Lockley8:53

Why? Well, I think this was a very early favourite in my discovery.

Ronald Lockley8:58

of what I call classical music.

Ronald Lockley9:01

It had happy and uh

Ronald Lockley9:03

Nostalgic overtones for me.

Ronald Lockley9:05

We used to, we sometimes still do, dance impromptu.

Ronald Lockley9:10

to its marvellous rhythm.

Presenter10:12

A chopin mazurke from Les Silfide, the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra conducted by Peter Marg.

Presenter10:19

So the island of how do you

Ronald Lockley10:21

Stochom. Stocholm. Scochhombe. Scochum is a Scandinavian'cause it's a Viking name, but the local people call it Scochum. Scochum. And and where is it exactly? It's right off the extremity of the coast of South Wales, right in the Irish Sea, or the St George's Channel, really. How big is it? About two hundred and forty acres. What's that in in in length and width?

Ronald Lockley10:46

One mile long by the widest is half a mile. And any buildings on it?

Ronald Lockley10:51

There was a tumble-down farm without a roof and there is a lighthouse there. A lighthouse which is which is manned by three lighthouse people at the far end of the island.

Ronald Lockley11:01

Had previous tenants made a go

Presenter11:03

Of it?

Ronald Lockley11:04

Well, a long time ago be in the last century they had, but in the present century

Ronald Lockley11:09

I think people didn't want to live in such isolation. There was no harbour there.

Ronald Lockley11:13

And so the l little farmhouse was used in the summer by fishermen.

Ronald Lockley11:18

And eventually, of course, the wind and the weather.

Ronald Lockley11:21

Took the roof off.

Presenter11:23

Was there a living in it, a potential living in this 2008?

Ronald Lockley11:26

Well, I saw there was. I saw, as coming from my little farm in Monmouthshire, that I could be a fisherman, like the fishermen of the district. I'd catch lobsters, crabs, crayfish. I would keep sheep. There were a lot of rabbits there.

Ronald Lockley11:39

But primarily because of my love of birds,

Ronald Lockley11:43

I wanted to go there. It's had something like three hundred thousand birds' nests in there. But two species especially hadn't been studied, the shearwater and the storm petrel. And there they were in hundreds all around this island. In fact, they'd taken possession of it in the absence of human occupiers.

Presenter12:04

In fact, you formed there the first bird observatory in Great Britain.

Ronald Lockley12:09

Well, I began by studying the shear waters it

Ronald Lockley12:13

nineteen twenty eight, twenty nine, and I made a

Ronald Lockley12:17

a study of these extraordinary birds which come into burrows by night, and nobody had really studied them, and I studied puffings and storm petrels. But what was also interesting was a mass of migrant birds passing up and down the coast,

Ronald Lockley12:32

in the autumn and the spring.

Ronald Lockley12:34

And I was ringing all these birds, putting rings on their legs to study them.

Ronald Lockley12:39

And you really get into much of a task and people because I was writing articles for

Ronald Lockley12:45

countrymen and some scientific papers, they began to ask if they'd come and help. And so I organized the first

Ronald Lockley12:52

British Bird Observatory nineteen thirty three, and it's gone on ever since, I'm glad to say.

Presenter12:57

One fortunate event in your early days on the island was the arrival of a derelict schooner. That was a turn up for her.

Ronald Lockley13:04

It's marvelous yes. It it happened only three months after I had arrived there, and I had very little money. I had spent it on a boat, and I was really wondering how I was ever going to repair the farmhouse, and then suddenly a schooner in full sail

Ronald Lockley13:20

ran into the island, nobody on board, and settled down at high tide.

Ronald Lockley13:25

She was there for a whole fortnight.

Presenter13:27

Rehearsal Mario This Less

Ronald Lockley13:29

The name was Alice Williams.

Ronald Lockley13:34

and I can tell you at this moment that her figure head

Ronald Lockley13:37

is still used as a mark when you want to go to that island, as you can do. You can stay at the observed if you like.

Ronald Lockley13:43

You come in in the boat, and there's the figurehead of the Alice Williams Markinney.

Ronald Lockley13:47

Land the steps.

Presenter13:48

And you became the owner. How much did you pay for the Alice Williams?

Ronald Lockley13:52

Well, I had a very good fisherman with me,'cause I didn't know anything about boats that first year, and he said a good old wrecker he was, he said

Ronald Lockley14:01

She's ours, but you've got to ring up the underwriter.

Ronald Lockley14:05

And you must say that the r ship is a total wreck.

Ronald Lockley14:08

and offer to buy it. But don't give em anything.

Ronald Lockley14:13

Well, anyway, I I rang up the underwriter, who, by extraordinary coincidence, happened to be an old sweetheart of my mother's at Milford Haven.

Ronald Lockley14:21

And I think he gave in a little bit. He said, Oh, I want several hundred pounds for her I said, Well, you'll have to come and get her because she's settled down and she's broken her back.

Ronald Lockley14:30

And after a lot of haggling he said, All right, all right. What's your offer? I said,

Ronald Lockley14:35

I said one pound.

Ronald Lockley14:38

And I've been told by Jack. But then he said, I'll get you can have her for five pounds, but I'm going to collect the anchors. Of course, he never did.

Ronald Lockley14:45

How big was the schooner? Length? She was about uh seventy feet long. All this gorgeous wood and metal and canvas. She was lying against the cliffs and we just stripped her and we had about

Presenter14:52

Yeah, like

Ronald Lockley14:58

Forty or fifty tons of coal as well, which lasted us many years.

Presenter15:01

Yeah.

Presenter15:02

It was the war, I presume, which brought your island experiment on on Skircum to an end, was it?

Ronald Lockley15:07

Yeah.

Presenter15:08

Right here.

Presenter15:09

What happened?

Ronald Lockley15:10

Well, uh the actually when the war broke out the army

Ronald Lockley15:14

Common did it and and uh

Ronald Lockley15:17

We're going to fortify it because it was the entrance to Milford Haven and and we left the island and started farming in North Pembrokeshire.

Presenter15:25

Well, that was the end of your island period, so let's break off for a record at this point. What's number four?

Ronald Lockley15:32

I would like the Bussie Prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn. For me it brings a a vivid picture of days spent in the forest, quiet music, looking for roe deer fawns in in Devon, where I was living, and in Scotland.

Ronald Lockley15:47

And for me I can hear the rustle of the trees and the magic of the woodland and birds, flowers and so on.

Presenter16:54

Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn.

Presenter16:57

and we're back with Sir Thomas Beacham and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter17:02

No, the war

Presenter17:04

You spent most of the war in naval intelligence. Can you tell us anything about what you were doing?

Ronald Lockley17:09

Well, not really. I wasn't enabled. I was lucky when I didn't know what to do with myself after we were told to leave the island, but we did get.

Ronald Lockley17:17

a derelict farm in North Bemidji called Dines Island.

Ronald Lockley17:22

and my wife was a good farmer and she helped to keep it going. But I was sort of uneasy and I thought I must do something more practical than that, and so I went to join up as a sailor.

Ronald Lockley17:33

Yes, I thought, well, I don't care. I wanted to be in the Navy. I was never allowed to because I was such a miserable little boy. So I went to the Naval Recruiting Station in Milford Haven.

Ronald Lockley17:42

And out walked a friend of mine, a bird watcher.

Ronald Lockley17:46

who is head of naval intelligence in Riffenhaven, Commander Wilson.

Ronald Lockley17:51

And he said, What on earth are you doing here? and I said, Well, I thought I'd try to do something useful in the Navy. You're the very man I want. I want you to go around the coast of Wales and Ireland,

Ronald Lockley18:01

for my service, disguised, and report on places where the German submarines are coming in, as we know they are. They're putting in, they're getting information, they're landing people, especially in the south west of Ireland. So I had a very lucky three summers of the war

Ronald Lockley18:18

Going round the coast, disguised as a fisherman, test making a list of places where the Germans might come.

Presenter18:25

Command.

Presenter18:25

Right, now the war is over. You became lord of a Welsh manor.

Presenter18:31

Mm-hmm. Tell me about that.

Ronald Lockley18:33

Well, after the war, with all the things that had happened during the war, I didn't really want to go back to Skokum, but I still held the lease, and what I did I turned it over to a body called the West Wales Naturalist Trust.

Ronald Lockley18:48

Which still manage it and I keep the observatory going. I had the chance instead.

Ronald Lockley18:54

going to live in a small Welsh manor called Orielton.

Ronald Lockley18:59

Now it hadn't been occupied for a year.

Ronald Lockley19:02

But the old people who died there, I used to know them, and they'd all anxious for it to become a nature reserve. Well, to cut a long story short,

Ronald Lockley19:10

With great difficulty I raise enough money to buy it.

Ronald Lockley19:16

Well, it goes right back to Norman times. It's got a spring which was put there in Norman times by a follower of William the Conqueror, Williot.

Ronald Lockley19:23

So it's a very, very old foundation. It's a beautiful place. How many rooms?

Ronald Lockley19:28

Well, they're twenty-four bedrooms, as far as I remember.

Presenter19:31

And how many of you and your family to occupy? About four. Yes, there's plenty of room.

Presenter19:38

And a lot of land?

Ronald Lockley19:40

Yes, the marvellous thing about it was really an island because it was two hundred and sixty acres, about the size of Skokum, surrounded by a high stone wall. You can imagine what it cost to put that in. Yes, indeed. A feudal. But it had a farm of a hundred acres, a hundred and sixty acres of woods and three acres of lake. It was really a most marvellous nature reserve.

Presenter20:01

Yeah.

Ronald Lockley20:01

And it must have taken a great deal

Presenter20:03

Yeah.

Ronald Lockley20:03

Yeah.

Presenter20:03

Rehabilitation.

Ronald Lockley20:03

Uh Uh

Presenter20:03

and getting it organized.

Ronald Lockley20:05

Well, I don't know whether I achieved all that rehabilitation, but the thing is I did love living there, and it was at a riper age, a more mellow place than a wild island. And you established it as a running nature reserve. That's right. It's been taken over by the Field Study Council now, and anybody can stay there if they wish to. How long did you run it?

Ronald Lockley20:26

Ten and a half years.

Ronald Lockley20:28

You were a poltergeist, I believe. That's right.

Ronald Lockley20:31

According to an old record by Gerald the Welshman,

Ronald Lockley20:35

eleven eighty eight, I think. It was haunted by

Ronald Lockley20:38

A ghost which had a nasty habit of telling the assembled company what they had been doing, misdoing.

Ronald Lockley20:46

And uh

Ronald Lockley20:48

Actually it was subsequently exorcised

Ronald Lockley20:51

By a later tenant.

Ronald Lockley20:53

But there were owls in the roof, making such noises that people would believe they were a

Ronald Lockley20:58

Poltergeist when I first got there.

Presenter21:00

What were your principal Conservancy projects while you were at Orielton?

Ronald Lockley21:05

Well, I think because of this outbreak of mix matosis in England in 1954.

Ronald Lockley21:12

The nature conservancy fear that all the rabbits are going to be swept away from their reserves because rabbits are necessary or some grazing animals are necessary on chalk downland to preserve the beautiful orchids and so on. So I was invited to make a study of rabbits because I'd studied other animals living in burrows, shearwaters, puffins and so on.

Ronald Lockley21:35

and I saw the opportunity to enclose part of the estate in front of the house and conduct this study, which ended up, as you know, in the book The Private Life of the Rabbit.

Presenter21:46

which really is one of the definitive books about the rabbit.

Presenter21:51

Let's have another record. We've got to number five.

Ronald Lockley21:54

Well again I would like something to remind me of the old days. When we were living on Ireland Farm, Dennis Cross, we had a lot of people helping us to recover this derelict farm and in the evenings we used to play waltzes and all kinds of music and we all loved Strauss waltzes.

Ronald Lockley22:14

We'd clear up the big the Gegenwa, the big kitchen, and we'd start dancing lads, lassies, land girls, prisoners of war, and one of the favourites were these naturally the Strauss walzes.

Ronald Lockley22:28

I think the one, of course.

Ronald Lockley22:31

Everybody loves Blue Danube.

Presenter23:32

Blo Daniel played by the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Carijam.

Presenter23:37

Now you've moved about quite a bit from one place to another. You elected to go and live in New Zealand after your ten and a half years of Orielton. That was for family reasons, wasn't it?

Ronald Lockley23:48

Yes, my daughter, born on Skokum, brought up on Skokum till the war started. She got an agricultural diploma and went out as herd tester in New Zealand, going round the farms.

Ronald Lockley24:00

which she loved very much, and finally she was proposed to by the right man.

Ronald Lockley24:04

got married and I went out to see her twenty years ago. I liked New Zealand so much.

Ronald Lockley24:10

Ten years ago I decided that this marvelous place to end my days.

Presenter24:15

a whole new range of of birds and animals to work on.

Ronald Lockley24:18

Yes, but uh I think the main thing was to be near our daughter and uh grandchildren. But also the climate where I live, near Auckland, is marvellous. I can grow oranges, apples, bananas, grapefruit.

Ronald Lockley24:33

avocado pears, and so on. Yes. And not only that, I look out on the sea, as I did at Skokum, to a huge gulf, the Hauraki Gulf, full of small islands which are have got their own special birds. And above all, now, at my great age,

Ronald Lockley24:51

I'm trying to study more whales, dolphins and porpoises. They're very numerous in New Zealand waters.

Presenter24:57

Indeed, there was there was the famous Pelarus Jack, the the was it dolphin, wasn't he? That's right, yeah. He used to patrol between the islands and follow the ferry across.

Ronald Lockley25:02

Yeah.

Ronald Lockley25:06

It used to leave the ferry for six miles on the other side of the Cook Strait, that's right. For twenty-eight years it did it.

Ronald Lockley25:15

And people used to come far and why to look at it.

Presenter25:17

And now tell me about the work you've been doing with

Presenter25:20

Whales and dolphins. You're you're obviously interested in whale conservancy.

Ronald Lockley25:24

Yeah.

Presenter25:24

Yeah. Uh

Ronald Lockley25:24

Yes, I'm interested in the poor state of the big whales. They've been hunted almost to extinction.

Ronald Lockley25:31

But sailing among the whales and dolphins in New Zealand waters, and having a request to write a definitive book on

Ronald Lockley25:41

what we call cetaceans, I realized that I didn't know enough about

Ronald Lockley25:46

The Northern Hemisphere one. So two years ago I

Ronald Lockley25:50

Took a pack on my back and I went up to Alaska,

Ronald Lockley25:53

I went right up in the end to the North Pole, that is the magnetic North Pole,

Ronald Lockley25:57

and I found I could get about amazingly

Ronald Lockley26:00

in helicopters and small planes used by oil companies exploring in that area.

Ronald Lockley26:07

Now they have a very good rule in Canada that you can't think for an oil well unless you had a environmental impact report, which means you've got to employ a biologist.

Ronald Lockley26:18

Or an archaeologist to say, no, that place is an Eskimo village, an old one, or this is a

Ronald Lockley26:25

place for walruses where they paw out. So I got around marvellously and in the end I I saw a wonderful lot of whales and I

Ronald Lockley26:35

We became close friends with whales. We I was out in boats alongside some of the humpback whales when they were sleeping alongside the boat.

Ronald Lockley26:43

Through

Ronald Lockley26:45

Other scientists who were beginning to study them.

Presenter26:47

Uh

Presenter26:48

But the song of the whale from the recordings one has heard is is beautiful.

Ronald Lockley26:52

Uh

Speaker 226:52

Yeah.

Presenter26:53

Which brings us back to music, doesn't it? Let's have another record. What shall we have?

Ronald Lockley26:57

Well, I think that since I'm living in New Zealand,

Ronald Lockley27:01

I would like a song sung by somebody from New Zealand. And what better could you have but kiriti kanawa?

Ronald Lockley27:10

I think she recorded uh After a Dream, Epre unrev thore.

Speaker 227:38

Yeah.

Speaker 227:58

Uh

Speaker 228:01

My T V is all delivery.

Speaker 228:07

Bus.

Presenter28:13

Flores A Present Grave, sung by Kiritae Canoe.

Presenter28:18

We've mentioned one or two of your books, one about rabbits, the private life of the rabbit, and uh a book about whales.

Presenter28:26

Just your one work of fiction, The Seal Woman. How many books have you written altogether?

Ronald Lockley28:31

Well, I'm afraid I've never counted them up, but

Ronald Lockley28:33

I think I have just over fifty titles published. Mhm. And chiefly natural history, but I I have had some novels published.

Ronald Lockley28:42

Have you?

Presenter28:43

Apart from the seal woman.

Ronald Lockley28:44

Yeah.

Presenter28:44

Oh yes.

Presenter28:46

Oh, some time ago now.

Presenter28:48

and several volumes of autobiography.

Ronald Lockley28:51

Well, I've had three and a half.

Presenter28:55

What was the half? I know there was one about your childhood, one about the island, and one about all

Ronald Lockley28:58

What about

Ronald Lockley28:59

And now I'm having one published when I get back to New Zealand about my.

Ronald Lockley29:06

Little house above the sea.

Presenter29:08

You're present.

Ronald Lockley29:09

Uh

Presenter29:09

Uh

Ronald Lockley29:09

Yes. I didn't particularly want to write this, but I've been writing articles about it.

Presenter29:09

Yeah.

Ronald Lockley29:13

I walk out of the house, go down to the sea, get in the boat perhaps, go and look at porpoises and so on, or I just walk about the shore, and that's called The House Above the Sea, but it's not yet published and probably is only of interest to New Zealanders.

Presenter29:28

Right, well, we've now got to record number seven. What's that to be?

Ronald Lockley29:33

Well, I remember in my upbringing in Wales and the singing of miners in the valleys above Cardiff and uh also particularly of uh

Ronald Lockley29:42

A young Welsh man who was working on my farm, he had the most wonderful voice.

Ronald Lockley29:48

I would like a Welsh song, David of the White Rock.

Speaker 229:54

A body for his hop softly.

Speaker 230:06

Beating hard

Speaker 230:09

By my side

Speaker 230:13

That my weeping does come as you once more.

Presenter30:22

Harry Seekum with the Welsh Festival Orchestra and Chorus, David of the White Rock.

Presenter30:29

Now we're going to put you ashore on a tropical island, all on your own.

Presenter30:34

Building a shelter would of course be no problem.

Ronald Lockley30:36

I don't think so, no.

Presenter30:37

And you're an expert sailor. What sort of craft would you make?

Ronald Lockley30:42

Oh, I think that at my age I'd be very happy to have a Polynesian canoe with an outrigger. How would you build that? Oh, there's plenty of palm trees on the island. You said there's a desert island with warm climate.

Presenter30:52

It was

Presenter30:53

Would you burn it out or?

Presenter30:55

Put it together with bamboo or leaves.

Ronald Lockley30:58

I should take my time, probably burn it out, or hack it out with a pebble on the beach.

Presenter31:04

To escape?

Ronald Lockley31:04

Yeah.

Presenter31:04

Yeah.

Ronald Lockley31:06

No, I don't think I would.

Ronald Lockley31:08

I know you'd come and rescue me if I had to be.

Presenter31:11

You have trust. Thank you, Ronald. And your last record is what?

Ronald Lockley31:16

Well, another song we used to sing collectively in youth, middle age, any time in fact,

Ronald Lockley31:23

It hums in my head as I think of it.

Ronald Lockley31:26

If you are going to isolate me on a desert iron

Ronald Lockley31:29

I want something to remind me of the

Ronald Lockley31:31

Kindliness of man, the warmth of woman, and the happy consequence of an agreeable occasion. Can I have the foggy, foggy dew?

Speaker 231:45

Lived all alone, and worked at the weavers trade.

Speaker 231:53

And the only, only thing that I ever did wrong was to woo a fair young

Speaker 232:02

Mm.

Speaker 232:03

I'm older in the winter time and in the summer time.

Speaker 132:05

Yeah.

Presenter32:14

Peter Pearce singing The Foggy Foggy Dew, with a Welshman playing the harp Ocean Ellis. If you could take just one disc out of the eight you've chosen, which would it be?

Ronald Lockley32:25

Well, I think I like the soft music of Debussy.

Ronald Lockley32:29

Afternoon of a fawn

Presenter32:31

Right.

Presenter32:32

and one luxury to take with you to the island.

Presenter32:35

Nothing of any practical use.

Ronald Lockley32:37

I think you'd allow me a telescope. For bird watching.

Ronald Lockley32:41

also to see who's coming to the island, so that I can take the appropriate action.

Presenter32:46

Evasive or otherwise. Yes, of course. That's easy.

Ronald Lockley32:48

Yes, it does.

Presenter32:50

And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare which are already there.

Ronald Lockley32:54

What I would like is Gilbert White's Natural History of Selborne, because he says in his preface somewhere that

Ronald Lockley33:03

Those who study I can't remember the exact words those who study one place, one region, are likely to advance knowledge far more than a person who wanders around the world, or words to that effect. But I do think it's the most marvelously concise

Ronald Lockley33:20

piece of research because he discovered all kinds of

Ronald Lockley33:24

New things new at the time. And not only that, you can read him again and again for his beautiful.

Presenter33:29

Perfect.

Ronald Lockley33:29

Ro.

Presenter33:30

Oof.

Presenter33:30

Right. Gilbert White's Natural History of Selborne.

Presenter33:35

And thank you, Ronald Lockley, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you, Rowie. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 133:47

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Speaker 234:38

Uh