Renata Scotto

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 30:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1980, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

This week, our castaway is the soprano Renata Scotto.

Presenter0:34

Do you play records a lot?

Renata Scotto0:36

N not a lot. But uh I play some. Sometime, I mean, when I especially when I want to relax, I I play some record. But classic music, not singing. Maybe because I sing and uh I want to get away from singing.

Presenter0:51

Nah.

Presenter0:54

Well, now you've got just eight on your island. What's the first one you've chosen?

Renata Scotto0:59

I chose the arabesque of a Schumann played by the best pianist. I mean, for me, and I think for everybody, but especially for me, I had the best moment in my life when I heard Orovitz give a concert. And the first

Renata Scotto1:17

piece he played was arabesque of Schumann. And uh I feel my body like uh he it went out of from earth and it was in the heaven. So this arabesque is for me something that I can't really explain what is it, but something that take me away from

Renata Scotto1:37

everybody and everything.

Presenter2:31

Horowitz playing Schumann's Arabesque.

Presenter2:35

Now, Renata, you were born in Italy in Savona. Is that on the coast?

Renata Scotto2:39

Yes, is uh near to the French coast. It's a beautiful small town.

Renata Scotto2:46

I only lived there, I was born there, and my parents are still there, but I left my my town when I was only uh fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, because I went to Milan.

Presenter2:57

Yeah, because I went to Milan. It sounds a pleasant place to spend your childhood. But of course, when you were very small, the war was on. Did you suffer very much from the war in Savona?

Renata Scotto3:07

During the the war we went uh uh to a little place in the mountain near to Savona. And but I was very little and I remember just uh as a bad dream, but I I don't my my you know, my father is a policeman.

Presenter3:13

Yeah.

Renata Scotto3:25

a retired policeman, of course, now, but uh during the war he he had to stay in the city, so we were with my mother in the little

Presenter3:33

In the mountains.

Renata Scotto3:34

In the mountain, yes.

Presenter3:35

Are you one of a large family? Have you a lot of brothers and sisters?

Renata Scotto3:38

No, no, small family. I have only uh one sister, older than me.

Presenter3:43

And a musical family?

Renata Scotto3:45

Musical in amateur sense. I mean in my family all they love music and especially opera. Savona is a little provincial town. We had a little theatre and all my family used to go to the opera once a year. So when I started to sing, I was a very, very, very little girl. My house had a terrace. And I used to be a prima donna even at four years old because I went out in the terrace and sing and you know the the little house we have in Italy which the terrace almost you can touch the the neighbor because it's so close to the the the people, to the the neighbor. So and the neighbor called me Renata, sing, sing. And I sang and they gave me candy. So you see, I always have been a prima donna.

Presenter4:35

You had your own little stage on the terrace.

Renata Scotto4:37

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter4:39

How old were you when you first went to the opera?

Renata Scotto4:41

I was about eleven, twelve years old, the war is fin was finished and I went to Savona and uh as I said, my family all they like to go to the opera and my first opera I saw was Rigoletto.

Presenter4:55

Yes.

Renata Scotto4:55

Remember Tito Garby.

Presenter4:57

Tito Gobbio.

Renata Scotto4:58

And I was crazy about him. I remember I came I went home and I wanted to put the hump on my back and play the part of Regolato in front of the mirror and I was shocked by the the Regolato and that opera, so I couldn't never forget.

Presenter5:16

So that really was when you started to want to be

Renata Scotto5:17

It was when you

Renata Scotto5:23

Fortunately I had uh uh an uncle which he was like even more like a father for me, and he helped me, he wanted me to to go to Milano, he put me in the college and he wanted me to study and to become

Presenter5:36

To be

Renata Scotto5:38

What I

Presenter5:40

Well, that was a momentous time in your life, so let's break there for your second record. What's that to be?

Renata Scotto5:46

There is a tenor which I always loved very much, and is Auberliano Pertile.

Renata Scotto5:52

which is uh fantastic because it gave every word meaning and with wonderful style and voice. I like especially in the area from La Fedora, Amor Tivieta. I would like very much to hear that.

Presenter7:02

Bertile singing Amore Tivieta from Giordano's Fedora.

Presenter7:08

I believe you did very well at the Milan Conservatoire.

Renata Scotto7:10

I think so. I mean, uh I study very, very hard for four years because I made my debut I also only eighteen years.

Presenter7:20

You you s were a mezzo when you first went to college.

Renata Scotto7:23

Yes, because uh when I made my first audition, the teacher I had in Savona,

Renata Scotto7:29

said that I was a mezzo. So I went to Milano and I started to study as a mezzo. But then they said I was too young to really uh see what was my voice and studying with another teacher he said no, I was soprano, so I only studied for a few months as a mezzo, then I started really to study as a soprano.

Presenter7:50

And your first professional appearance at eighteen. What was the part?

Renata Scotto7:55

Was Violetta and Traviata?

Presenter7:58

Well, that's an incredibly difficult part.

Renata Scotto7:59

You can see it.

Renata Scotto8:00

Yes, difficult. And I really I think at that time I didn't know. Now I know how difficult it is, but you know, eighteen years old, just have the courage to go and

Presenter8:10

Just

Presenter8:13

And where was your debut?

Renata Scotto8:14

My debut was uh in Savona.

Presenter8:16

Ah, the hometown.

Renata Scotto8:17

Yeah.

Renata Scotto8:18

Yeah.

Presenter8:19

You had friends in France.

Renata Scotto8:20

And I have friends and enemies, of course.

Renata Scotto8:25

The theatre was full to see what was. The star is born, born good, born not good, so that the people the audience was shared. Half they said, No, she can't be good.

Renata Scotto8:42

And they all decide, yes, maybe she will be good. And so I finally decided I was good.

Presenter8:47

Well, that's fine. And what was the next engagement?

Renata Scotto8:50

Then I had a competition after my debut. I I won a competition in Milano and I started my really career in Milano and I won the competition and I made a formal debut with Traviata again.

Presenter9:06

That was the Teatro Nua.

Renata Scotto9:07

Triatronuava, yes.

Presenter9:08

When did you mount the ladder to the big theatre to La Scale?

Renata Scotto9:12

I had the opportunity the same year of my debut because they had an opening night with uh Lavalie. And of course the in Lavalie the the title role was Renata Tebaldi and Maria del Monaco. But it was a coloratura part, very difficult.

Renata Scotto9:31

And I went to Lascal and I'm make an uh audition also because I was only nineteen and uh very young to go in La Scala was a moment of I mean uh very important and meant that I'm, you know, eight nineteen years old.

Presenter9:49

A triumph

Renata Scotto9:50

In one way th I think yes, because it's so unusual to have a nineteen years old girl singing La Scala. And the part was very difficult. So I wa had my debut in La Scala, but then I stayed far from La Scala for at least four years.

Presenter10:07

You were offered a contract there, I believe, but you thought it better to take a part of the

Renata Scotto10:10

Yes, to to have a experience in a small theater with a big part, with a a title role. Not small part in the big theater, but big part in the small theater. So I had my experience and I came back in La Scala as a prima donna.

Presenter10:26

We've got to record three. What's that going to be?

Renata Scotto10:30

I'm very romantic and as I said before, I love Horowitz and I would like to hear from Horowitz Noturna, Chopin, Noturna. As I said, I'm very romantic, and nobody can play better than Horowitz, a Noturna, Chopin.

Presenter11:42

Orovitz playing Chopin Nocturne in E-flat, Opus Nine, number two. You came to London very early in your career, didn't you?

Renata Scotto11:52

Yes. You know, I came in London and I sang in a theatre that doesn't exist any more.

Presenter11:59

Sadly.

Renata Scotto11:59

Yes, it was a scalte.

Presenter12:02

What parts did you see?

Renata Scotto12:03

And I remember that uh I sang there an opera that I didn't sing any more because uh uh my repertoire uh it's so large, but that opera I never sang uh after it was Don Giovanni, Don Elvira.

Presenter12:17

Yeah.

Renata Scotto12:18

And also saying uh Um Elizirdamore, Sonambula.

Renata Scotto12:23

And

Renata Scotto12:25

Craviata, I think.

Presenter12:26

It was in these islands north of the border that you had your your big opportunity.

Renata Scotto12:32

Yes, in Edinburgh.

Presenter12:33

In Edinburgh. Tell me about that, the story of that night.

Renata Scotto12:34

And never

Renata Scotto12:36

Ah that is unforgettable, because uh for me was the magic moment.

Renata Scotto12:43

because I had my big chance, you know, because La Scala went to Edinburgh in nineteen s fifty seven in Tour, in Tourna Tourney. But I left Milano as a cover

Presenter12:51

But

Renata Scotto12:55

As an understudy? Yes, understudy. In America they say cover. So understudy. Okay.

Presenter12:55

As an understudy.

Presenter12:56

Yes.

Speaker 412:57

Yeah.

Presenter12:57

Yeah.

Renata Scotto13:01

And uh so I I I went to Edinburgh, but I was should not sing, you know, just to go and uh

Renata Scotto13:10

Maybe, maybe.

Presenter13:12

Be there if you're wanted.

Renata Scotto13:13

Maybe, but I was sure that never that chance came to me. But came. So I had to replace the last moment Maria Carlas in La Sonnbula.

Renata Scotto13:25

And

Renata Scotto13:27

I remember was really a magic moment. Something happened when I went on stage.

Renata Scotto13:33

An evening with

Renata Scotto13:35

with fire, you know, because people wanted Maria Carlas and a young girl went on stage instead. So what's happened now? You know, you f you feel that. But I was so strong and so

Renata Scotto13:53

uh secure and so fighting the audience and I said I'm here I want to be

Renata Scotto14:01

better, because if you don't think this, you can't have the courage to go out and fight against a big name like Maria Kahla was at that moment. So I I pray. I I don't know what I did, but I went on stage and the first thing I had was an applause from the audience.

Renata Scotto14:20

before to open my mouth. So that make me relax completely and start. And I really had my magic moment that. Because from that on my career started

Presenter14:34

You were asked to sing Las Omnampola at La Scala?

Renata Scotto14:36

Less or no.

Renata Scotto14:38

Yes, the year after I sang La Sonambola in La Scala and two years I sang La Sonambola.

Presenter14:45

So you are now a fully fledged.

Renata Scotto14:47

And I sang Sonaman.

Presenter14:47

I sang Sonama.

Renata Scotto14:50

About San Ambola, I think I sang Sonambula in every theater in the world, I think.

Presenter14:57

Another record, number four. Watch this.

Renata Scotto15:00

Oh, this is a special record because when I heard this I was with some friend of mine which was a wonderful evening and my husband was with me and I love to hear the finale of Tristan

Renata Scotto15:17

Und is old, sang by Kristen Flagstadt, but conduct but furtwengler, a mamma me.

Presenter16:24

A closing passage to the Liebes note from Wagner's Tristan and Isolde, Kirsten Flagstadt and the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Wurtwengler.

Presenter16:34

We've talked about your operatic career. How important to you is concert hall work?

Renata Scotto16:39

Oh, I love concerts. I love very much.

Presenter16:42

What you like to sing?

Renata Scotto16:43

Especially I like to sing

Renata Scotto16:46

Italian composer in the chamber music. You know, there there are many, many uh Italian composers, they wrote music songs that nobody knows because everybody sing German leader, but n

Renata Scotto17:02

It's almost neglected the Italian leader, which I think is a big repertoire from Scarlatti, Vivaldi, Carissimi, Monte Verdi.

Speaker 417:06

Yeah.

Renata Scotto17:13

Through the Verismo composer Verdi Bellini and Rossini and through even Catalani and Puccini wrote chamber music. And in all my recitals I preferred to sing Italian composo also some French, which I loved.

Presenter17:32

In the opera house, too, you like to be venturesome. I believe you had quite a

Presenter17:36

A dispute with the management of the Metropolitan because they wanted you to go on and sing the same old roles. You you like to expand your repertoire.

Renata Scotto17:43

Oh yes, all the time, because I think uh an audience from me wants always some new I I mean, I want to give to my audience every year one new role.

Presenter17:55

How many roles have you?

Renata Scotto17:55

And I think I have about seventy roles or eighty roles, yes. Because, you know, the first ten years of my career,

Presenter17:58

Seventy.

Renata Scotto18:05

is now twenty

Renata Scotto18:07

two or twenty uh twenty three that I I think and

Renata Scotto18:10

The first ten years I had to sing what they want, what the theatre want.

Renata Scotto18:15

But the second ten years I sang what I wanted to sing.

Renata Scotto18:20

So this is the most important part of me to sing what I want, and I choose every year one opera.

Speaker 418:24

Yeah.

Presenter18:24

And so

Renata Scotto18:27

that I like to sing.

Renata Scotto18:29

Next year I will sing

Renata Scotto18:31

an opera which I think about five years maybe uh would be Macbeth. And I was seeing at Covent Garden a new production, Lady Macbeth.

Presenter18:41

Oh a very

Presenter18:43

We've got to record number five. Where do we go now?

Renata Scotto18:46

Sometime I like to hear music also pop music on light music, and especially I like the Beatles. I think they they're very interesting and they wrote um wonderful pop music.

Renata Scotto18:59

Now then no more like that.

Presenter19:02

Like the Stoll Theatre.

Renata Scotto19:03

Ah, yes, but there's especially one song that I like and I also sing.

Renata Scotto19:10

And it is yesterday.

Renata Scotto19:13

Yesterday.

Speaker 419:16

All my troubles seem so far away

Speaker 419:21

God looks as though they're here to stay, oh I believe

Speaker 419:27

Yesterday, suddenly.

Speaker 419:33

I'm not half the man I used to be

Speaker 419:38

Does the shadow hang in a r

Presenter19:41

Yesterday by the Beatles.

Presenter19:44

Where is your home now, Renato?

Renata Scotto19:46

Ah, that's a good question.

Renata Scotto19:50

Because I have a home in Italy.

Presenter19:52

Jell and Tavona?

Renata Scotto19:53

No, no. I marry a Mantovano, so I I have a house in Mantova, a beautiful city in the north Italy.

Renata Scotto20:01

But I live in the United States. I live in New York most of the time. I have my family there and I have a house in the country near to New York.

Presenter20:11

Now, your husband used to be in the orchestra at Las Galas.

Renata Scotto20:14

Yes, I met him in La Scala. He was playing the violin in the orchestra. And then after eight years he preferred to leave the orchestra to be always with me and, you know, it is also conductor and he work all the time with me and he travel a lot with me. He's also my teacher, my

Renata Scotto20:34

Advisor, especially, because for a singer, it's very important to have a husband, musician.

Presenter20:40

And you have two children?

Presenter20:43

Where are they at to go?

Renata Scotto20:44

In in New York I have a boy, eight years old, and a daughter of eleven years old.

Presenter20:52

How much time do you practise ordinarily?

Renata Scotto20:55

Oh, a lot, because uh I think voice for a singer is like uh legs for a dancer, or hands for a pianist. Uh I have to practise a lot, and at least I think every day two hours.

Presenter21:10

Yeah.

Renata Scotto21:11

At least two hours.

Presenter21:13

A great deal of your work, of course, is in the recording studio, and that usually means coming to London, doesn't it?

Renata Scotto21:19

Yes, yes. I am so happy about this, because every summer I spend the summer in London.

Renata Scotto21:26

I'm here now for the recording of Traviata. It's the my second one, because I did one twelve years ago. And this one is very, very important, as always the second record, because you know you you have to do better than the first one.

Renata Scotto21:45

And uh so I do this traviata and then I will do Tosca.

Renata Scotto21:50

And Segreto di Susanna, so I'm staying all summer.

Presenter21:53

Oh, that nice little one act opera of Balfara.

Renata Scotto21:56

Yes, Volferrari opera.

Presenter21:58

Which are your favourites out of all the records you've made? Which must be a very large number now?

Renata Scotto22:04

You know, every time I make records it's

Renata Scotto22:08

It's a really piece of my life going that. And every record has to be the best performance you give because it stays forever. And every time you listen you have to say it's good, because otherwise you come crazy. But there are some special

Renata Scotto22:25

The last I made is uh Norma, and I I think this one is the one I prefer. And Norma also, because I think it's the best opera ever wrote by any composer. It's the classic.

Presenter22:33

And

Presenter22:38

The S

Presenter22:40

Norma isn't one that you've chosen for your island. I know you're going to play one of your own recordings next. What's that?

Renata Scotto22:46

Yes, if I would be in island, desert, alone, so I would sing sola perduta abandonata means alone, lost, abandoned. And so I die because I'm thirsty, I'm cold, help, help but nobody comes. So this is the right area to sing in a desert island.

Presenter23:09

Yeah.

Presenter23:11

Where does it come from?

Renata Scotto23:12

From Manon Lesco, the last act of Manon Lesco, She Really Died in a Desert.

Speaker 424:00

Miss What?

Speaker 424:08

Hey song song.

Presenter24:13

Your own record of poor Manon Lesco dying in the desert.

Presenter24:18

You've said that you have a belief that you have a a spirit guide, that that is the shade of Maria Mali Bronte, the great soprano who died in eighteen thirty six, I think it was. Yes, and you really feel you are influenced by her.

Renata Scotto24:28

You really feel you are in

Renata Scotto24:31

If you believe in those things, yes, I think I felt from the first moment, especially when I sang Sonambola in Edinburgh, I think Maria Malibran was with me.

Renata Scotto24:45

I'm very religious.

Renata Scotto24:47

and I I really believe in God.

Renata Scotto24:51

and I pray a lot and I I think we have always somebody close to us to help us in the

Renata Scotto25:00

Very important moment of our life.

Presenter25:03

Well, that was a very important moment for you and you were indeed.

Renata Scotto25:05

Yes, and that there was a other very important moment like that.

Presenter25:10

Yeah.

Renata Scotto25:11

I mean that was on stage, but in life

Renata Scotto25:15

which is also more important.

Renata Scotto25:18

You need to have somebody close to you.

Presenter25:22

Now we've got to record number seven. Watch that.

Renata Scotto25:24

Of course you know already I love Orumin.

Presenter25:27

We're back with them.

Presenter25:29

What's he playing?

Renata Scotto25:31

I want to go to heaven.

Renata Scotto25:34

And I like the shoe man.

Renata Scotto25:37

Uh of course I'm in the desert desert island and I like to dream. So I choose the tramurai.

Speaker 325:40

I think it's a good question.

Presenter26:46

Horowitz playing Traumorai, dreaming from Schumann's Scenes of Childhood.

Presenter26:52

Are you a practical person? Could you look after yourself on an island?

Renata Scotto26:56

Yes, very practical.

Presenter26:57

You could build some kind of shelter, leaves or or whatever.

Renata Scotto27:01

Oh, Mama Mi, I'm not so sure. But I think.

Renata Scotto27:07

Uh I think yes, but sometime I feel that I'm not able to do anything. You see, I have a long talk with my husband because he said to me, You want too much from life because you want to take care of the children, you want to take care of house and sing and and everything. You can't, you you can't and I said, Yes, I can't, I want to take care of everything because

Renata Scotto27:35

I have a power to take care of everything. And then there are moments I said, No, I can't. I'm not able to do anything. Maybe sing.

Renata Scotto27:45

You know, that's

Presenter27:46

Now you told me that your your uncle, the one who was so kind and helped you, was a fisherman.

Renata Scotto27:52

Oh yeah.

Presenter27:52

So he taught you to fish, did he? Yes. Oh, that's very useful. You're going to get food.

Renata Scotto27:54

Yes?

Renata Scotto27:55

That's very

Renata Scotto27:57

Yes. See, if I had uh a fishing rod with me I can fish. I can be the happiest person in my life, because I always love to go to fish.

Presenter28:09

Would you try to escape?

Renata Scotto28:11

Yes, but uh w to to go to where, in the water, then I get cold, then then comes night. So, no, I prefer to stay in the island.

Presenter28:20

Stay where you are, and we'll do our best to rescue you. You're last record now.

Renata Scotto28:21

We'll do our best.

Renata Scotto28:25

This also is an area which I think is one of my records which I prefer.

Renata Scotto28:32

other than uh Norma, is Adriana Le Couvreur. And I like the the Arian the last act, Povery Fiori.

Renata Scotto28:42

and it finished with the word tutoe finido, everything is finished.

Presenter29:42

Your recording of Poor Little Flowers from Adriana Le Couvre by Chilea.

Presenter29:48

If you could take only one disc out of the eight you've played us, which would it be?

Renata Scotto29:53

Let me think, because I'm in a desert island.

Renata Scotto29:58

and I don't want to die.

Renata Scotto30:01

So I think I want to keep it manon lesco, solo perduta bandonata, and scream, I don't want to die.

Presenter30:09

I promise you we won't abandon you. And one luxury to take with you. Nothing of any practical use.

Renata Scotto30:16

Uh my dream is a Rolls Royce.

Presenter30:19

Just to sit in.

Renata Scotto30:20

Yes, just to to sit in a warm place, in a luxury place. And Ross Royce is nothing better than

Presenter30:29

Yes, I didn't like this bit about luxury. You you will have to promise not to live in it. In fact, we'll make sure we'll give you an open Rolls office.

Renata Scotto30:34

Oh.

Renata Scotto30:36

Oh, please give me the silver shadow.

Presenter30:37

That's very mean.

Presenter30:40

Yes, indeed. Okay, fine. An open silver shadow. And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare and not a big encyclopedia, please.

Renata Scotto30:41

An open solar shadow.

Renata Scotto30:49

Oh, the book I have to take with me La Divina Commedia.

Presenter30:52

The Divine Comedy of Dante.

Renata Scotto30:54

Dante, yes.

Presenter30:55

You shall have a very handsomely bound copy indeed.

Presenter30:59

And thank you, Renato Scotto, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Renata Scotto30:59

Thank you

Renata Scotto31:03

Oh, thank you very much. You're very nice. I was very happy to be here.

Presenter31:07

Good but I don't

Renata Scotto31:07

But I don't want to die.

Presenter31:09

We'll try to avoid that at all costs. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 331:19

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.