Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1980, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

This week, I'm visiting Commissioner Catherine Bramwell Booth at her home in Berkshire. Now to put things in place right away, you hold the second highest rank in the Salvation Army.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth0:41

Well, if you call the general a rank.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth0:44

The general is above all ranks.

Presenter0:47

Yes.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth0:47

Otherwise, Commissioner, yes.

Presenter0:49

And you're the granddaughter of the founder of the Salvation Army, William Booth?

Presenter0:54

and you're a very lively ninety six.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth0:56

Well, uh I don't know about that. I'm also a daughter.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:01

I'm a bit tired of being called granddaughter.

Presenter1:04

Your father

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:05

And my father was Bramwell Booze.

Presenter1:07

And he succeeded your grandfather as Jeff.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:09

Yes, that's right. That's right.

Presenter1:11

And you live in this very pleasant country house with your two younger sisters.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:15

Yes. We were ten when we came here.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:18

How important to you is music?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:20

Very important.

Presenter1:22

And do you play with

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:23

Record

Presenter1:23

That's quite a lot.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:24

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:24

Since my retirement, yes. I do and enjoy them very much, and I also listen to the radio, music on the radio.

Presenter1:33

How many instruments do you play?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:34

Well, I don't know how many I play now, how many I have played.

Presenter1:39

How many have you played?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:40

Well, I have never counted, if we put it that way.

Presenter1:42

You could name most instruments and a salvation.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:45

As they were going, yes, and my mother encouraged us all.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth1:51

She taught us to play the piano, the elder ones, then the elder ones taught the younger ones. We were seven of us.

Presenter1:58

And you used to sing, of course?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth2:00

Oh, rather.

Presenter2:01

Now it was your grandfather who said, Why should the devil have all the best tunes, wasn't it?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth2:05

Well, yes, d they say he said it, but uh but my grandmother said almost the same thing.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth2:12

But at any rate it's true, and I should like to emphasise it.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth2:17

For for all the churches and well, what do you call them, yeah, the groups in God's family.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth2:25

Singing is a powerful instrument.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth2:29

It's not just an entertainment, it's an experience, it's it's important.

Presenter2:36

Now, let's go on to your first record. What's the first one you've chosen?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth2:40

Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.

Presenter3:31

Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, played by Wilhelm Kempf. Why did you choose that?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth3:36

I chose it to

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth3:38

Because it would

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth3:40

On this desert island thing it would take me back to a special moment in my life.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth3:47

I was at home, I reckon I was about twelve, eleven or twelve ish. My mother was playing the Moonlight Sonata.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth3:58

and I was standing near her beside the piano.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:03

And

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:03

As she played

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:05

I suddenly thought, Oh, isn't she beautiful?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:09

with her dull gold hair and the pink in her cheeks.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:14

And then

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:16

For the first time in my life.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:19

I felt a strange

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:22

Uplifting of spirit. I was carried away by the beauty of the music.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:27

And although I think by then I could play the Moonlight Sonata myself, I played many of the sonatas, I never before

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:36

Felt that strange. I can't explain it now. Strange.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:41

uplifting of the heart that music can give it was so beautiful.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:47

Well, I can see that as though it were an illuminated picture.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth4:53

Now, how f long is it afterwards? What's twelve from nine to seven? You can settle that from nine to six.

Presenter5:00

Then we won't do sums.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:00

Do the sums.

Presenter5:02

Now some questions about the Salvation Army in general. Your your grandfather, William Booth, what part of the country did he come from?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:09

Nottingham.

Presenter5:10

Nottingham.

Presenter5:11

Uh who and and and what was he?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:14

It was nothing.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:15

It was on his fifteenth birthday.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:18

that he got converted, as we say, got saved if you're in the army.

Presenter5:21

Do you feel

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:23

under a Revivalist preacher, and he said I decided

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:29

that God should have all there was of William Booth.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:34

Well, for a boy of fifteen

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:36

I think it's it's lovely that we've got that.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:40

The testimony, if you like, because it's a very important age. I say sometimes when I'm speaking.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:49

That the Salvation Army began.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth5:53

In the heart of a boy on his fifteenth birthday.

Presenter5:58

So he became an itinerant evangelist.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:01

Yes, he began at once to talk in the streets of Nottingham.

Presenter6:05

Where did he settle?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:06

Well, he never settled after that.

Presenter6:08

Yeah.

Presenter6:11

Now he founded the group that afterwards became what did he call it, first of all? What did he call it?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:14

The Soundation Army, yes.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:17

It was caul first of all, it was called the Landon.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:21

Christian Mission

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:23

Then they dropped the London and it became the Christian Mission because they began to spread in the country.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:30

And it was in seventy-eight.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:35

that he decided to change the management. He took the committee idea. Otherwise they had a conference and members and argued each case and he didn't always get his own way.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:49

So he changed it.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:50

And he said he would become the leader.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth6:54

And those who didn't like to go his way, well, God bless them, go their own way. But something like that.

Presenter7:01

Now your grandfather's original aim was was the gathering of converts. Did he straightway start on on the wider practical work of looking after people in need?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:11

Well, very early they got hold of a building in Whitechapel.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:16

where they had room.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:18

and there they served cheap meals.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:22

You could go in and really get a m a meal in the way of a bowl of soup for a penny and that kind of thing.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:29

So I suppose, in a sense, that that was the beginning.

Presenter7:33

And that little mission has grown into this huge organization with all the medical work and children's homes and whatever.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:35

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:39

Yes, yes.

Presenter7:42

all five continents worldwide.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:45

Yes.

Presenter7:46

How many countries have you any idea?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:48

Yeah, I think it's eighty four now.

Presenter7:52

Thank you.

Presenter7:52

Well, that's really quite something from one man's idea to grow into all that. One man's idea.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth7:56

Yes, and then you mustn't leave out my grandmother.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:00

It's one of the miracles, I think, force I've just well, just a few years ago I wrote her life.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:06

And it came home to me so clearly that God prepared her.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:14

to be William's wife. They were prepared for each other, they understood each other, and they fortified each other.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:23

And you can't say that the Salvation Army was managed or organized or invented by William. You must include Catherine. In her lifetime she was called the mother of the Salvation Army.

Presenter8:40

And you were named Catherine after him.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:42

After her, yes.

Presenter8:44

Let's have your second record now. What's that to be?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:47

My second record is Bruch's violin concerto.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:53

played, if possible, by a new hoodie menu in.

Presenter8:56

That's indeed possible.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth8:57

Now Bruh is new to me.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth9:00

Now I want books.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth9:02

violin concerto on the desert island so that I can play it and play it and play it and there'll be, you know, nobody to get sick of hearing it. Until I've

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth9:14

Grasped.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth9:15

as it were, the nuances, the beautiful phrasing, the

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth9:20

The well, the music of it sinks into me.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth9:24

Because I don't know it very well.

Presenter10:17

An excerpt from the first Bruch Violin Concerto in G minor, Yehudi Emanuen with a London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Adrian Boat.

Presenter10:26

You were brought up in the army. Did you take it for granted that it was going to be your life?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:31

No.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:33

But I gradually

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:35

came to feel that

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:38

It ought to be.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:39

My parents never spoke about it.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:42

But I

Presenter10:43

Knew it would please them. Did you go to a South Asian Army training school?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:47

Oh, yes, certainly. But I didn't decide upon that until I was.

Presenter10:48

Shit.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:52

nineteen

Presenter10:53

And then you were appointed an office.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:54

And then then may I say, I thought.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth10:58

When I left home we all went to walk together in the morning.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:02

With the dogs.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:04

And uh

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:05

I thought I was

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:08

Saying goodbye.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:10

for everything that was beautiful and that I loved in life, the country, my dear ones.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:18

and that I was going into a life that was

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:22

Quite contrary to my own nature, there was a very timid child.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:28

disagreeable sort of child, always bursting out crying when I was expecting to say something nice to a stranger.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:37

And I thought I was losing everything. But you see, as it's turned out, I've had.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:43

A life so full of of joys and richness and

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:48

Looking back I can see how

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:51

How wonderfully God has overruled for me.

Presenter11:55

So after you had graduated as it were, after you were appointed an officer.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth11:59

Office of the US.

Presenter12:00

Then you have to go to work doing the the modest jobs in the army.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:04

Well, I was put in charge of what we call a corps.

Presenter12:07

Yes.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:08

So you might say a church, a group of salvationists.

Presenter12:11

A street corner meeting.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:12

Yes, street corner or rather.

Presenter12:14

Yes, selling the war cry to the subs.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:14

Uh

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:15

Yes, yes, yes. And playing the Wheatstone concertina. That was one of my the instruments. Oh, it's you don't not you shouldn't laugh at it.

Presenter12:25

I'm not laughing at you.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:26

It's a wonderful instrument. You can play every note and make your own harmonies on it.

Presenter12:32

Where have you served, and where did you serve when you started?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:36

I served in Bath.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:38

The city of Bath Bath Two Corps. That was my first corps. And then I had a corps in London.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:46

And then I went on to the staff of the training college to help train the cadets.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:54

who are going to be officers, you see.

Presenter12:57

Let's have another record. What number three?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth12:59

Number three is Mozart's first horn concerto, if I can have that.

Presenter14:04

Dones Brain, a soloist with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Herbert von Karian, the first movement of the first Mozart Horn Concerto. Now when you're talking about the Salvation Army, what is the structure? How is it run? I is is there an army council?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:20

There are quotes many councils in a way.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:23

Because they're the financial councils and the

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:27

councils that discuss appointments.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:31

And the general has a special council?

Presenter14:33

Who is the general at the moment?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:35

Arnold Baum.

Presenter14:37

Does it have to be a Britain?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:39

No, oh no.

Presenter14:40

Each country has its its own organization.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:42

Its own leader in its own organization. Each corps, in fact. That that's one of the things that is so precious when you are an officer. You're so free.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth14:55

You're appointed to the core, and you can do pretty well as you like to attain your end, you see.

Presenter15:02

Now

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:02

Oh, the

Presenter15:02

The military ranks.

Presenter15:05

Major Colonel.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:06

Players.

Presenter15:06

Doesn't this lead to confusion when you're travelling?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:10

Yes, I've been fixed up on a sleeper on the continent.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:15

And the horror of everybody when I I think I was a colonel then, I turned up to be a woman instead of a man. But still they sorted it out for us.

Presenter15:25

Some more music.

Presenter15:26

What now?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:28

Well, now I think I want Ernest Luff singing Hear my Prayer.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:35

Cause I'm a creature of moods, I'm an up and downer.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:39

You see, sometimes I feel tremendously up

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:43

and can face anything and another time I'm down in the dumps and

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:48

Well, I know I shall have a good many down in the dumps times, stuck there by myself.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:56

And to hear this

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth15:58

Beautiful. I shall play it every night, every evening.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth16:03

before I settle for the night.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth16:06

Hear my prayer.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth16:08

Because it

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth16:09

That's what I shall be saying all day long. O Lord, hear my prayer, get me out of this.

Speaker 116:28

Oh god, let's have fun!

Speaker 216:35

Didn't it wait takes a little fun dealing with?

Speaker 116:35

We can take a little part.

Speaker 216:41

Nobody can offend me.

Speaker 116:42

Don't be

Presenter17:09

Mendelssohn's Hear My Prayer, Master Ernest Love, that splendid old recording with the choir of the Temple Church, London. Now wherever there's a disaster, anywhere in the world, the Salvation Army moves in. This is international cooperation at its best, isn't it?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth17:24

Always. And I remember my grandfather was always so pleased to tell of of the latest news. I heard him say that

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth17:33

When the war was on in South Africa,

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth17:37

began having refugees to deal with. I believe it was the first time.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth17:42

refugee camps and that kind of thing. And then various ministers came and said, All who belong to the United Something, follow me.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth17:53

And then another one would say, Everybody who belongs to the such and such, come with me.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth17:59

And the army captain, who was a a youth at the beginning of his career, in the end, he stood up and said, Everybody who belongs to nowhere, follow me.

Presenter18:11

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:13

And that, of course, is the aim for the Salvation Army: that we should reach the people.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:20

that hadn't had the Gospel or hadn't understood it enough.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:24

to make any sense to them.

Presenter18:26

I've been told by people whom the Salvation Army has helped that help is given before questions are asked and that seems the right way round.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:35

I think so. Then there's an absurd idea.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:39

That people don't like being asked questions. I had the joy of the charge of women's work for women

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:47

and children.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:48

and broken down lives and young thieves and all that sort of thing.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth18:54

But someone set up the idea. I forget now who it was. I or you it's a relation of Chesterton's, I think.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:01

and said, Come to my shelter, you will be asked no question.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:07

and implied, but of course the people who come to you for help

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:12

They've got a problem. They've run away from home, or they've quarrelled with their husband.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:18

They want to talk.

Presenter19:20

But they are helped first.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:22

Not necessary if you mean by help fed.

Presenter19:22

This is the first time.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:25

And sheltered, certainly, yes.

Presenter19:27

I think it's time to choose another record. What shall we have?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:31

Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words I Should Like.

Presenter19:35

Mm-hmm.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:36

And by the bye, are the records ordinary records?

Presenter19:39

Ordinary common or garden records.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:41

Yes. Well, they've all got a a tune on the other side.

Presenter19:44

Oh, indeed they have.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:46

So I've got a mystery. With every record that I have, I something on the other side. That cheered me up very much.

Presenter19:47

Do it

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth19:55

I don't know what I shall get.

Presenter19:55

I don't

Presenter19:57

Indeed you did.

Presenter19:59

Now which of the songs without words of Mendelssohn shall we have?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth20:03

Well, the wa the the record that has the spring song on it.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth20:07

But I like them all, really.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth20:10

They they take me back to my childhood when we were learning them, playing them ourselves.

Presenter21:14

Mendelsohn's Spring Song from his Songs Without Words.

Presenter21:18

Opus sixty-two number six in A played by Daniel Barramboy.

Presenter21:24

Now, Commissioner, we talked about some of the big-scale successes of the Salvation Army, national disasters and that sort of thing.

Presenter21:32

I'd like to hear some of the small-scale stories of of your own ministry, of of individual cases that come to mind.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth21:39

I do remember an experience that

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth21:43

that was special, and that was the Silver Town explosion. I suppose you're you're too young to remember anything about it, but you've heard of it.

Speaker 221:50

Yeah.

Presenter21:51

Yeah.

Speaker 221:51

Uh

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth21:52

There was this dreadful noise, and I was then stationed on the staff of the training college. Where's that?

Presenter22:00

Where's that?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:00

It was it's in Klepton. Now it's gone to it's moved to Denmark Hill where

Presenter22:05

There.

Speaker 222:05

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:06

But um I gathered together a group of the cadets.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:10

with the baskets in which we carried our food,

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:14

in which we had bavril and uh tinned milk.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:18

condensed milk and

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:20

things that we can make a drink out of.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:23

and a couple of kettles, and we marched toward the noise.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:28

And I I shall never forget the devastation, the little rows of houses without roofs and

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:35

The misery of the people and the trying to identify the half-burned bodies where we were able.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:44

To be there

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:46

They they tried to stop us the first time. The police said, Oh, no, nobody can come in. I said, Oh, the Salvation Army can come in. We've come in on purpose.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth22:55

I've got such and such in my baskets. We are going to to help the people. And we made a fire in the streets.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:02

different streets from the brick brack the of the the remnants of the explosion really, bits of wood and so on and on these fires we boiled our kettles.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:14

And so we gave the people a hot drink and blessed them and kissed them and comforted them.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:21

It was a wonderful experience.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:25

I remember going into a room, they said, Well, this we tried to get the people out of the wrecked houses. They clung to their belongings and and

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:35

So they said well

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:37

Major, I think I was in. There's an old man. We can't get him to move.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:42

And there he was in the wreck of the house, with his cat.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:47

And he he couldn't bring himself.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:50

To come out.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:52

Well, I talked to him and persuaded him.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:55

That's the cat's sake.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth23:57

You ought to come out and have a cup of tea.

Presenter24:01

We've got to record number six. What's that?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:04

The Cello Solo by Jacqueline Dupre.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:07

of Saint-Sans, I think, the swan in English.

Presenter24:12

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:12

And what

Presenter24:12

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:13

Well

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:14

That's such an exquisite piece of music.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:19

Course it's awful the things you've got to leave out, but I shall find some of them on the other side. I'm full of hope.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:26

But the swan, the cello is an instrument. I played it for a little while myself, and I discovered just

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:36

enough to know how difficult it is to play, how you have to make it sing for you.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:45

Now of course I shouldn't be able to play this very often.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth24:48

Because I should probably begin to cry, and that would be very awkward, wouldn't it? There'd be no one to comfort me. And crying is not good for you on the whole.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:00

But when I felt in good enough spirits, hopeful enough,

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:04

Because I haven't told you what I should do. Well, you haven't asked me whether I should try to get off.

Presenter25:09

No. Would you like to tell us now?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:11

Well well, I shouldn't, because I couldn't. I sh what should I do?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:15

But but what I should do would be from the very beginning collecting the the the bits of wood and

Presenter25:22

The bits of wood

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:24

and things, and make a fire.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:26

so that there'd be a signal going.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:30

and I'd keep that going day and night.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:33

That would count for my exercise.

Presenter25:36

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:37

Course, what do you eat on this island?

Presenter25:39

There's plenty of fruit.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:40

Plenty of fruit, oh.

Presenter25:42

And uh

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:42

I heard there were palm trees, so I hoped it would be a date palm.

Presenter25:44

So I hope

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:47

The

Presenter25:47

Yeah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:48

Because I hear that you can live on dates.

Presenter25:48

Because I

Presenter25:50

and coconut tool.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth25:52

Oh, and coconuts. Oh, that was our favorite tea at home as children. Dates and cocoanuts.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth26:00

Oh, I could eat those three times a day and listen to my music. Yeah.

Presenter26:04

Yeah.

Presenter26:05

Right. Now we were going to play the swan, weren't we? Played by Jacqueline Dupois, and here she is making the cello sing.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth26:09

Where is

Presenter27:12

Jacqueline Dupre playing The Swan by Saint Sons.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth27:16

Well, we had the joy, as children, of making our own orchestra.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth27:20

So that's how um for a time I played the cello in our own orchestra.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth27:27

and learned and the violin.

Presenter27:30

two. There were seven of you in your orchestra, and your parents as well.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth27:34

No, no, no, not my parents, just the seven of us. And my younger brother, who was the most musical, was very aggrieved that he only had

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth27:43

The triangle to play at first, at first.

Presenter27:44

It's fast.

Presenter27:46

He was promoted later.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth27:47

But he was the most musical. He was the only one who ever had lessons. He had a few lessons on the piano he could play.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth27:56

Very well. But that orchestra taught me a lot.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:00

about music and and about the problems of making it and and what a genius at it you have to be.

Presenter28:10

And the next record I see you have there is A Salvation Army.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:13

Yes. Well, I couldn't be on a desert island and never hear an army band.

Presenter28:14

Yeah.

Presenter28:20

Which bound is this?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:21

It's a Portsmouth Citadel band, but I've chosen this piece because it incorporates a chorus that I like very much.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:32

I know of fount.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:35

Where sins are washed away.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:38

Of course again we're dealing with things that can't be expressed, therefore you must have imagery in it.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:47

I know a fount.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:49

Where sins are washed away

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth28:53

where we can get rid of the past failures. I know a place where night

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:00

is turned to day.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:03

We are walking in the light with the Saviour.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:06

Burdens are lifted.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:10

Oh, if you have a burden, dear people who are listening.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:14

To my cheddar.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:15

Those with burdens learn what it means to cast

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:20

Your care

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:22

And God

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:24

But he careth.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:27

Burdens are lifted, blind eyes made to see by the wonderworking power.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth29:35

of the blood of Calvary.

Presenter30:30

The Salvation Army March, the Fount

Presenter30:33

Composed by Arthur Gullage and played by the Portsmouth Citadel Band.

Presenter30:38

And now we come to your last record. What have you saved until the end?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth30:42

The Hallelujah Coles

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth30:44

Handles, of course. I should like it by Sir Malcolm Sargent,'cause he's associated in my mind with the Messiah.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth30:53

But the Hallelujah chorus.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth30:56

It'll be rather hard for me to believe that it's

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth31:00

God's will that I should be stuck on that desert island too long.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth31:05

But hearing it sung, the hallelujah chorus, you see, that would comfort me.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth31:11

And I should play it every night.

Presenter32:12

The Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah, the Huddersfield Choral Society of the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent.

Presenter32:22

Commissioner, if you could have just one disc out of your aid, which one would it be?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth32:27

Well, I think it would have to be the Hallelujah chorus.

Presenter32:30

And one luxury to take to the island with you?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth32:33

Well

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth32:34

I've been rather puzzled, because you see I should like several. What's the good of one?

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth32:40

But I think in the end I've decided that a good strong wooden arm chair

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth32:47

You know the the chairs that you have in the kitchen with arms and a back tall enough to lend your head. Now, I heard you say

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth32:57

to someone, or we'll manage that.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:01

They wanted ink and pens and paper.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:06

Well, I think that I shall have

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:09

two or three pencils in my pocket, because I expect I should be on a journey for the army when I was shipwrecked.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:16

And so I should have pencils and dry them off, but I should want paper.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:22

Now could you somehow manage

Presenter33:24

This can be managed, yes indeed.

Presenter33:27

And one book, you have the Bible and you have Shakespeare.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:30

Yes. Well, I thought of saying I'd have my Dear Carlyle's Frederick the Great. It's got twelve volumes. But uh I've read it twice and I should enjoy reading it again. But when I really

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:44

got down to thinking, truly.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:47

I had to decide on the Salvation Army song book.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:51

You see, singing has had a great part in my life, in my spiritual life.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth33:58

And there are songs of praise and songs of prayer

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth34:02

And uh oh, I love the song book.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth34:06

And I should be able to learn some of them by heart, although I never can learn things by heart, and perhaps on a desert island, who knows?

Presenter34:14

Thank you, Commissioner Catherine Brammel Booth, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Commissioner Catherine Bramwell-Booth34:19

Thank you. God be with you.

Presenter34:22

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 134:30

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.