Josephine Barstow

Speaker 40:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy nine, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

On our Desert Island this week is the English opera singer Josephine Bastow.

Presenter0:36

Now, you're from Yorkshire?

Josephine Barstow0:38

I am from Yorkshire, yes, I was born in Sheffield.

Presenter0:40

And educated there?

Josephine Barstow0:41

No. I began my education in Sheffield, but w the family left when I was eight, on my eighth birthday, in fact. And we came down to live in North London, and I continued my schooling there in North London.

Presenter0:52

Was there a lot of music in your home?

Josephine Barstow0:54

There was always music. My father sang in church choirs and we used to have musical evenings singing round the piano and there was never any professional music.

Presenter1:03

But you will put to the piano, will you?

Josephine Barstow1:05

Yes, I it was recommended to me that I learnt the piano from the usual age. Unfortunately I didn't apply myself as well as I wish I had done now.

Josephine Barstow1:13

I can only just play enough well enough to teach myself the role. I can't play enough well enough to accompany myself.

Presenter1:19

Did you go to the theatre a lot?

Josephine Barstow1:21

I went to theatre a great deal. When I c was in the secondary school age, after the age of about thirteen, fourteen, I was always going up to the Old Vic, um, as it then was, and sitting in the gallery, and I saw everything that was there many, many times.

Presenter1:30

Yeah.

Speaker 21:30

Uh

Presenter1:37

That was more important than music to you.

Josephine Barstow1:39

At that stage it was, yes. Mm. It was my first love, theatre and the English language. I read a great deal as a child and instead of doing mass I would be learning poetry or something.

Presenter1:49

Or something. Were you an only child?

Josephine Barstow1:51

No, I have a sister. Uh she's four years younger than me.

Presenter1:54

What's your first record?

Josephine Barstow1:56

My first record is a reading of the Kubla Khan by Coleridge by John Neville.

Josephine Barstow2:02

It is because he was my first love. When when I used to go up to London in those early days, he was in the company at the Olvic and he played Hamlet there, which I think was the first theatrical event that really got through to me. And I don't know how many times I saw him do Hamlet, but many, many times I also used to go all over London because he used to do poetry readings in various places. I can remember I went to Kenwood one time and various theatres where he was r doing poetry readings often with Barbara Jefford. And I used to sit absolutely entranced by him. I also we we lived fairly close to him and I used to cycle round to his house and stand outside his house. I really had it very badly.

Speaker 22:41

Look, I really had it very bad.

Josephine Barstow2:43

Anyway, he's reading Kubla Khan on this record and I would like to have that very much.

Speaker 22:48

In Zanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure dome decree, Where Alph, the sacred river, ran Through caverns measureless to man, Down to a sunless sea.

Speaker 23:02

So twice five miles of fertile ground, With walls and towers were girdled round

Speaker 23:09

And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills, Where blossomed many an incense bearing tree.

Presenter3:16

John Nevill, reading Coleridge's Kubla Khan.

Presenter3:20

Now you went on to the University of Birmingham. What did you read?

Josephine Barstow3:24

I read English.

Presenter3:25

With a view to what?

Josephine Barstow3:26

Well, I had already in fact decided quite suddenly that I was going to be an opera singer. Apropos of nothing really. I had always been, as I say, terribly involved in going to th the theatre. I ha I had seen about one or two operas in my entire life, but I knew that the theatre wasn't quite it that I want wanted to do. And it suddenly struck me one morning that I wanted to be an opera singer, and I never ever

Josephine Barstow3:47

changed my mind. I never had the slightest doubt after suddenly realizing that one day. And I told everybody at school, I told everybody in my family and that that was it, and thank goodness I'd now decided. And of course it was just considered really rather ludicrous by my school, which was a very academically orientated grammar school.

Josephine Barstow4:05

And they said, Yes, well, that's very nice, but why don't you go and get a degree first? And it seemed to me obvious to read English because that had always been.

Josephine Barstow4:13

the thing that I had loved most at school, because there wasn't an enormously strong music tradition in the school that I was at.

Josephine Barstow4:19

And um so I went up to Birmingham and read English for three years and I'm absolutely grateful that I did do that.

Presenter4:26

Was there a lot of drama and music in the university?

Josephine Barstow4:28

Yes, a very great deal. It was um a vintage year of students. There was a lot of talent in in my generation at Birmingham.

Presenter4:36

Yeah.

Josephine Barstow4:36

in fact, quite a lot of talent that is now active in the theatre still. And there was a very active straight theatre group and also an active opera group. And I was in all the operas and and in quite a lot of the plays too.

Presenter4:48

And when you graduated, what happened?

Josephine Barstow4:50

Well, I went straight down to Saddas Wells, as it was then, and um presented myself, expecting to be accepted with open arms, of course, as one does coming out of university, and they were very sweet and said, Well,

Josephine Barstow5:02

Go away and learn to sing and come back.

Josephine Barstow5:05

So I went away. I had actually been learning to sing privately for quite a while before I went to university and while I was at university, but I continued with a man called Robert Vivian, who uh helped me enormously and started me off in the right way in every w way in this profession. And I continued training with him.

Josephine Barstow5:24

and taught English for two years in various establishments in North London.

Presenter5:28

Were you a good teacher?

Josephine Barstow5:29

No, I don't think so.

Presenter5:30

And then?

Josephine Barstow5:31

Then I auditioned for Opera for All, which is not now in existence in the same form as it was. In my day it was seven singers and a pianist and two stage managers and we went round with a a van full of scenery and and a a mini bus for us to travel in and we put on operas in all sorts of unlikely places like Market Raisin and

Presenter5:51

Market Raisiner, where's that?

Josephine Barstow5:53

Yeah, well I think it's in Lincolnshire or somewhere in the middle of

Presenter5:54

Doesn't sound a very good date.

Josephine Barstow5:56

Well, it's somewhere on the in the east.

Presenter5:57

Yeah.

Josephine Barstow5:58

It's part of England I don't know very well.

Presenter5:59

Right. Well there you are your first job. Let's break here for another record. What's next?

Josephine Barstow6:04

Well, my second record is the only record that I have chosen that I have taken part in myself.

Josephine Barstow6:09

Um it dates from the period before I became a professional singer. While I was teaching I was also a member of the Philharmonia Chorus.

Josephine Barstow6:18

And it was a wonderful time to be in the Philharmonia Chorus. I sang under Giulini, under Carrain, under Klempera, Barbaroli, Adrian Bolt, you c you name them. I we we sang under them in that choir.

Josephine Barstow6:30

And um we actually toured, we went to uh

Josephine Barstow6:34

at Parma in Italy, and did the Verdirequium and the four sacred pieces.

Presenter6:39

In the birthplace of the great Verdi Harrison.

Josephine Barstow6:41

Absolutely. On his some centenary or other, I don't know what it was, it was a jubilee of some kind, of his death or birth. And we sang the Vederequium, and after the Sanctus in this in this beautiful theatre,

Josephine Barstow6:55

Giulini was conducting, everybody was concentrating to the very end. It was wonderfully I think it was a good performance.

Josephine Barstow7:01

And the end of the Sanctus, there was deathly silence, and suddenly from the auditorium someone shouted, a man shouted, Bravi, bravi tutti And it was absolutely fantastic that in this in this piece that is in England is treated with such respect and decorum. Uh it was it was my first experience of the Italian participation in in in music making and it was very exciting. I've never forgotten the feeling that that we had. I mean we we in fact encored the sanctus. Anyway, we then recorded it and this is the recording.

Presenter8:32

The sanctus from the Verde Requiem, the Philharmonia Chorus and the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Carlo Maria Giulini.

Presenter8:40

Let's go back to your opera for all days. Seven of you going round with the band. What parts did you sing?

Josephine Barstow8:46

The first year I sang Me Me, I then won a scholarship to the London Opera Centre and I studied for a year.

Josephine Barstow8:52

I did everything the wrong way round.

Presenter8:53

That doesn't exist anymore, does it?

Josephine Barstow8:55

No, no, no.

Presenter8:56

Tell me about it, the opera center.

Josephine Barstow8:58

Oh, it it was a very useful ex in experience for me indeed, because one was thrown into the company of um

Josephine Barstow9:06

all the music staff of the of the major opera houses. That was one of the main advantages. And one one had time to learn repertoire, one had time to settle down a bit and to find out where one's talents lay and and find a a general sense of direction.

Presenter9:22

How long were you there?

Josephine Barstow9:23

I was only there for a year.

Presenter9:24

Yeah.

Josephine Barstow9:25

and I then did another operapheral tour, singing Traviata.

Josephine Barstow9:29

Um, I just did half a tour that time.

Presenter9:31

Yeah.

Josephine Barstow9:32

and then went to sad as well.

Presenter9:35

Let's have another record. What's your third one?

Josephine Barstow9:36

Well, my third record is actually um it's the dance of the blessed spirits from Orfeo Edeuridice by Gluk, and I've chosen the passage where the flute solo begins. When I went to Sadlus Wells, my first role there was the second lady in the new production of The Magic Flute and we did hundreds of performances. It was rather tedious. The l ladies are not the best parts to play. You're on at the beginning and you're on at the end and there's a great gap in the middle when you sit in the dressing room and

Speaker 210:03

In the dressing room.

Josephine Barstow10:05

But um one night we were on tour in Glasgow and one night I was informed by the management that the next night I was on as Euridice in in Orfeo and I was supposed to be covering it, but I'm not the kind of person that uh ever thinks those kind of things are going to happen and I didn't really know the part very well, not well enough. And so during that performance of flute while the everyone was getting on with it, the the other two ladies and I were trying to bang the part of Euridice into my head.

Josephine Barstow10:34

Anyway, I did it and it was a great success, thank goodness. Um and this particular section that I have chosen from it was a lovely bit of the production where Eriudi Dice is in the Elysian fields before Ofeo comes to to get her. And the set was very simple. It was a fountain, beautifully lit, and all I did was just wander round this fountain to this glorious music. And of course I suppose it's instilled itself in my memory because I was so terrified while I was doing it the first time. But after that I did several other performances and I really got to love doing it enormously.

Presenter12:10

Renato Fiszano

Presenter12:12

Conducting the Virtuosi di Roma in the Dance of the Blessed Spirits from Glux Orfeo.

Presenter12:19

Now before joining Saddler's Wales, you worked for a while in the London fringe groups, didn't you?

Josephine Barstow12:24

Yes, and also while I was doing the things at Saddler's Wells too, um yes, I did um Handle Opera Society and various other small companies. It was great fun and inv an invaluable experience.

Presenter12:37

He went to Glynbourne for one season.

Josephine Barstow12:39

Yes, I was in the chorus for one season. I was the largest child ever to have been on Glimbon stage. They they employed me just for for Boheme. And when I got there I discovered that I was a child in Act Tour and being about one of the tallest people in the chorus, it didn't seem to be ideal casting as far as I was concerned. I can remember we I rushed around with the sparkler most of the time.

Presenter13:02

And what parts were you singing up at the Wells in your first?

Josephine Barstow13:05

I sang in that first season I sang The Second Lady and Flute, Euridice, and I think I finished up doing Traviata, a couple of performances of Traviata.

Presenter13:13

Yes. Now, violetta is a part you've rather latched onto. You've sung it a great deal.

Josephine Barstow13:16

You sung it a great deal. I love it.

Presenter13:18

You sang it for the Welsh National Company.

Josephine Barstow13:20

Yes. And then I did it when a new production which was based on that Welsh National Opera production, the um John Copley did a new bigger scale one at the English National Opera and I sang the first performances of that, which I loved. It was a w wonderful experience.

Presenter13:35

You've got a story about your traviata with a Welsh national.

Josephine Barstow13:38

Oh, w well, that was yes, in Act Four there's a bed on the side of the stage.

Josephine Barstow13:43

and uh a couch in the middle of the stage, and the the production was that I used to die on the couch in the middle of the stage, being a far better position for the prima donna, etcetera.

Josephine Barstow13:53

However, one evening a lovely man, a tenor, a friend of mine, playing Alfredo,

Josephine Barstow14:00

feeling in great form, rushed in uh and uh in in you know, when he comes in for the last duet and when Violetta dies, flung himself down on to the couch beside me, and it had little wooden legs, and one of the wooden legs came off entirely and rolled very slowly down to the footlights, and he and I rolled over in a very undignified heap on to the floor.

Josephine Barstow14:24

There was a a gasp from the audience and we had a whispered consultation about what was the best thing to do and I said I think you better pick me up and carry me over to the bed. This he did and we carried on. But what the funniest part was that after that everybody that then came in, the doctor and Anina had a terrible double take looking at the couch, seeing we weren't there, thinking they were on the stage entirely on their own. We were tucked away in the corner.

Presenter14:46

I think we had a

Presenter14:48

Where's this girl going to die tonight?

Josephine Barstow14:49

Bye tonight.

Presenter14:50

Yes, everyone.

Presenter14:51

Yeah.

Presenter14:52

Record number four.

Josephine Barstow14:54

Record number four is Fidelio. I have chosen it because it's, I think, probably my favourite opera. I have chosen the section just before Florestan's first line, Gott Verchdunke here, when the orchestra has painted the picture of his imprisonment in in the dungeon. And I've chosen John Vickers singing it because every time he does it, I heard him and see him do it countless times. I always burst into tears when he does this. I want one day to sing Leonora when he's singing Florestan.

Speaker 416:12

Rowens for the sake of the sky.

Presenter16:24

John Vickers as Floris Dunn in Beethoven's Vidalia.

Presenter16:28

When did you make your first appearance at the Royal Opera House Garden Gardens?

Josephine Barstow16:32

My first appearance there was as a second niece in Peter Grimes. Um I have no idea what year it was, I never can remember those things, but my first major production at Covent Garden was as Denise in the Knot Garden by Sir Michael Tippett.

Presenter16:45

That was an important operatic occasion.

Josephine Barstow16:47

It was, yes, and it was incredibly important for me because it was one of my first

Josephine Barstow16:52

exposures in a in a major house, in a major role, and it was a wonderful role actually. I was introduced by a wonderful orchestral section and immediately embarked into a a spectacular aria.

Josephine Barstow17:05

For me it was a a very happy experience and and also working with Peter Hall and Colin Davis.

Presenter17:10

There was another important occasion when you were singing at Gleinborn.

Josephine Barstow17:15

Oh, yes I was there covering Lady Macbeth.

Josephine Barstow17:19

That was all I was doing that season.

Josephine Barstow17:21

And they decided they were going to televise Southern Television televised the production. And there were some problems with the lady who was singing Lady Macbeth. And uh they asked me if I would

Josephine Barstow17:33

could do it. And I jumped at the opportunity and did it. And it was my very first performance of Lady Macbeth, that performance which was televised in its entirety. I was absolutely terrified. But in fact that as well gave my career an an incredible boost.

Presenter17:43

I

Presenter17:48

I'm sure he's a pretty big audience.

Josephine Barstow17:50

Yes, and it's since gone all over the world. I I I went to Italy just recently and they had just shown it in Italy.

Presenter17:58

Yeah.

Josephine Barstow17:59

Yes, it's awful and you you feel that you might have improved since those days, but

Presenter18:02

Those days but What was your first overseas appearance?

Josephine Barstow18:05

Oh, I went to France, to Aix-en-Provence, um, to sing Alice in Falstaff. That was my first thing. That was a long time ago, the Aix Festival.

Presenter18:11

And there is

Presenter18:13

And when did you hear sing in the United States?

Josephine Barstow18:16

About three years ago I went to Miami and sang Lady Macbeth There, with Sheryl Milne singing Macbeth. That was wonderful, great experience. I went straight to the Met from there to sing Musetta.

Presenter18:28

And are going back to the Met quite soon.

Josephine Barstow18:30

I'm going back to sing my first salomae at the Met. Well, it's not my first saloma, it's my first at the Met.

Presenter18:35

Yeah.

Presenter18:36

Oh, we've got to record number five. What's that?

Josephine Barstow18:39

Record number five is of Kazee, it's the trio.

Josephine Barstow18:43

I love the trio from Kazi and I would like to hear Kiritakanawa singing Fiorda Ligi because in my view hers is the most beautiful soprano voice of our generation and I would love to have it with me on the desert island. We were in fact students together at the Opera Centre.

Speaker 419:20

Mercy I want.

Speaker 419:55

Yes, I want

Presenter20:01

The trio Suavicia Ilvento from Cosifantotti, sung by Kiri Tekanawa, Frederica von Stada and Jules Bastin.

Presenter20:10

Now, some of the other roles you've sung. You've done a couple of Janacek's operas for the English National.

Josephine Barstow20:15

Yes, I've in sac sung three Yannotek operas altogether. My first one was The Macropolis Case at at the English National Opera, and I've since sung Yenoofa and Katikabanofa in joint productions with the Welsh and Scottish Opera.

Presenter20:29

What else, Elizabeth and Don Carlos?

Josephine Barstow20:31

Elizabeth in Don Carlos. Oh, there are so many. I seem to have.

Josephine Barstow20:37

been doing new operas for the last I know a lot.

Presenter20:40

Yeah.

Josephine Barstow20:40

Um

Presenter20:41

And Salomay, you you've sung, well, many times, you're the right shape for the dance of the seven Veils, which is one memorable thing about you.

Josephine Barstow20:47

Well done memorable thing about it.

Josephine Barstow20:50

Yes, I don't think the ideal Zalome exists because it's one of those roles that uh demands a body, as you say, that it is possible to unveil, and a voice that usually belongs to a rather larger person. And uh I haven't got that large voice, but I sing Zalome my way, and I've had a fair amount of success. People seem to feel that it works. I I love doing it.

Presenter21:15

And you just made your debut in a very spectacular Aida. Yeah.

Presenter21:20

You study your characters very deeply, don't you?

Josephine Barstow21:23

Yes, I do. I I I suppose, having been first attracted to the theatre, that is the first aspect of a character which I come to grips with, the dramatic side of of a role.

Josephine Barstow21:36

I in fact at one stage in my career had to make a very conscious effort to balance out my approach so that I wasn't always singing operatic roles from a to the dramatic point of view. I I had to very consciously study the musical aspect of my work because I tended to over dramatise, I think. I hope I've balanced it out and evened out somehow.

Presenter21:58

You've done quite a lot of work in modern operas.

Josephine Barstow22:02

Yes, yes I have. Recently I've done rather less.

Josephine Barstow22:06

But I've created a lot of roles in first performances, which has been an honour and a great experience.

Presenter22:13

Here's Hans I wrote a part for you.

Josephine Barstow22:15

Yes, and two Tippit operas, The Knot Garden and the next one, The Icebreak.

Josephine Barstow22:20

And I've also been in Germany singing concerts with Henze and some of his works.

Presenter22:25

Mhm. Very tricky stuff to learn.

Josephine Barstow22:28

Very hard. And everybody thinks that I'm a a great reader and can just read it off. And it's not true. I have to sit at the piano and work it out and it takes ages.

Presenter22:33

But I have to sit at the piano.

Presenter22:36

Do you approach this modern work with any kind of missionary feeling? Do you do you really believe in it?

Josephine Barstow22:41

Yes, I do. I believe that one can't simply continue an art form uh like opera as if it were a museum. One has to inject new ideas, new thoughts into it, and and I feel that anybody that's involved in the profession must devote a certain amount of their time to that process.

Presenter22:57

Record number six.

Josephine Barstow22:59

Record number six is the El Garcello concerto, Jacqueline Dupre, playing the cello. I just love it.

Presenter24:06

The opening of the El Garcello concerto with Jacqueline Dupre as soloist. Now your husband, Andy Anderson, is of course in the opera business.

Josephine Barstow24:15

Yes, very much so. He's been in the business for a very long time.

Presenter24:18

He's production director at Cotton Garden. How often have you been able to work together?

Josephine Barstow24:23

Well, actually not very often, considering that we've been married f uh ten years. Um we haven't worked together as often as you would imagine, but um we met by working together. He came to the opera centre while I was there and we did a production of uh well an excerpt from The Console by Minotti and I was seeing Magda Sorrel and he directed it.

Presenter24:40

Uh

Josephine Barstow24:42

We've since worked in Wales together, we did a Boheme.

Presenter24:46

and you'll like to get off to your country cottage together.

Josephine Barstow24:49

That's a necessity, I'm afraid, yes.

Presenter24:52

What you you you grow vegetables, you you're you're a great agriculturalist.

Josephine Barstow24:55

Oh yes, we grow everything that we eat virtually. Um I very uh very very rarely buy uh any vegetables or salad stuff.

Presenter25:04

You've gone on record as saying that your big ambition is to be a sheep farmer.

Josephine Barstow25:09

Yes, well it it is. No one believes me, but one day I will actually confound everyone and find this farm and uh

Presenter25:10

No one released me.

Josephine Barstow25:17

And go. But uh you know what you

Presenter25:18

Where would you like it to be? Yorkshire?

Josephine Barstow25:20

I think I'd quite like to go back to Yorkshire, yes. I'd also quite like to be by the sea, so it might be somewhere Dorset or somewhere like that. That would be love.

Presenter25:29

Another record.

Josephine Barstow25:30

The next one is Kachika Banova Janacek, which I sang for the first time last season with the Scottish Opera, and it was one of the highlights artistically of my career. I enjoyed myself enormously doing it, and it's a wonderful work. For me, it's the most beautiful of the Janacek scores, and I I just revelled in being involved in the whole thing.

Presenter26:55

Part of the overture of Janicek's Kacha Kabanova,

Presenter26:59

The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Charles McKerris.

Presenter27:03

Now, Joshua, we expect a prospective sheep farmer to be a resourceful sort of girl. If you would look after a few hundred sheep, you could look after yourself on a desert island.

Josephine Barstow27:11

Ah, yes, I I think I'd be quite good. I would quite enjoy that.

Presenter27:14

You could rig up a shelter.

Josephine Barstow27:15

Oh yes, mm, and I could grow things and I I if I do you think there are any animals, I mean I'd love to sort of tame some horses and things like that.

Presenter27:22

Horses, horses I can't guarantee.

Presenter27:25

Well it might be a camel or something.

Josephine Barstow27:25

Well, it might be a camel or something.

Presenter27:27

Doc theft pack.

Josephine Barstow27:27

Oh, parrot. Oh well, I'll teach the parrot to sing or something.

Presenter27:31

Dunan fishing.

Josephine Barstow27:32

No, I've never done any fishing, but um

Presenter27:34

Hey, it does help.

Josephine Barstow27:35

Yes, yes.

Presenter27:36

Do you know about small boat?

Josephine Barstow27:38

I no, not really. I've I've uh I suppose I could learn, and I could build myself a raft if I wanted to, but I think I'd be quite happy to stay where I was for a while.

Presenter27:46

No, somebody'll come and fetch it.

Josephine Barstow27:48

Well, I hope so eventually.

Presenter27:50

Your last drink one.

Josephine Barstow27:51

My last record is is the one that I couldn't do without, and it's the Beethoven Ninth Symphony. I'd like the whole thing. But if we could just play where the orchestra begins the theme in the finale, the the theme of joy, it's such a statement of confidence in the human race, and I think apart from the fact that I love it, it might keep my pecker up in moments of gloom on the desert island.

Presenter29:12

Part of the last movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Herbert von Carrion.

Presenter29:19

If you could take only one disk instead of eight, which would it be?

Josephine Barstow29:22

It will be that one, the Beethoven ninth.

Presenter29:24

And you're allowed to have one luxury with you any one thing you like of no practical use whatever.

Josephine Barstow29:29

Yes, well, as you won't allow me to take my dog

Presenter29:32

No.

Josephine Barstow29:33

I'm going to take the Michelangelo David.

Presenter29:36

Right.

Josephine Barstow29:36

Apart from the fact that it would be so wonderful to have such a beautiful thing there, and also, although the world might not come and find me, they might come and find him.

Presenter29:44

That's a crafty move.

Josephine Barstow29:44

That's a crafty move.

Speaker 429:46

Uh

Josephine Barstow29:47

Also, again, it's a statement of heroism and I think I couldn't possibly not pull myself together and get on with life if he was there.

Presenter29:54

Right, the Michelangelo David, and you're allowed one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare, which are already on the island, and no big encyclopedias.

Josephine Barstow30:03

Yes, well, this has been the most difficult thing to decide, and I really don't know. As Shakespeare's there already, I suppose I could do without Keats, and therefore I'll take as many of the Hardy novels as you will allow me bound into one binding.

Presenter30:18

All right. Yes, we should get three or four into one large volume.

Josephine Barstow30:22

Well, I'll take Tess and I'll take Jude and the Woodlanders.

Presenter30:25

Fair enough. They'll be bound up for you. And thank you, Josephine Barstow, for letting us hear your Desert Island disc.

Josephine Barstow30:31

Thank you very much. I've loved it.

Presenter30:33

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 430:42

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.