Pam Ayres

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young and this is a download from the Desert Island Discs archive. This edition may be slightly different from what was actually broadcast, but it's the only version we have. It comes from the British Library's radio collection. It was archived without the music, so although the Castaways choices are introduced, they're not part of this recording. Full details can be found on the Castaways page on the Desert Island Discs website.

Speaker 10:26

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy nine.

Speaker 10:30

And the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:33

Our Castaway this week is Britain's best selling writer of verse, Pam Ayres. Pam, have you ever daydreamed about being a Lady Robinson Crusoe?

Pam Ayres0:44

Well, no, not really, Roy, if I am perfectly honest.

Pam Ayres0:47

I haven't,'cause I'm not a very C sort of person. I'm more a forest sort of person. Now, music. Do you play an instrument? I play the guitar and the tin whistle.

Pam Ayres0:57

Yeah.

Presenter0:57

Really?

Pam Ayres0:58

and the ukulele that my mother had in the attic for forty years.

Presenter1:03

Well done. I I notice some of your poems have been set to music. Have you done the setting?

Pam Ayres1:08

Mm, yes, I did.

Presenter1:10

Yeah.

Pam Ayres1:10

Yeah.

Presenter1:10

You play a lot of records ordinarily at home. Do you play records?

Pam Ayres1:14

Yes, I do. I play them when I'm doing things. It's very seldom that I sit still.

Pam Ayres1:18

and play records and simply listen to them. I tend to use them as background and I play a lot of folk music, a great deal of folk music, and I tend to play it when I'm ironing,'cause I hate ironing.

Presenter1:31

Well, out of your collection, you're allowed to take eight to the desert isle and watch the first one.

Pam Ayres1:36

Oh, the first one's by Lonnie Donegan, because I love Lonny Donegan, and uh it's a bit of nostalgia really because I've got four brothers. And when I think of Air Home, um, when all the brothers were at home, there was always Lonnie Donegan playing somewhere. They were always very keen on skiffle, because of course it was a skiffle era.

Pam Ayres1:56

And then as a result of Lonnie Donegan, I got interested in the guitar and I started to play myself and I started to write little verses to fit in with the tunes. And so I've

Pam Ayres2:10

I thought we've got a lot to thank him for, really.

Presenter2:12

Yes, you have.

Presenter2:14

What have you chosen that he should sing?

Pam Ayres2:16

One of my favourite tracks is the Battle of New Orleans.

Presenter2:25

Lonnie Donegan, The Battle of New Orleans. Now, your home with four brothers is

Presenter2:31

In Oxfordshire.

Pam Ayres2:32

Well, that's rather a moot point, Roy, because originally we were in Berkshire, but we didn't move. They moved the boundary, and now Earhouse, that always was in Berkshire, is in Oxfordshire.

Presenter2:45

That was very unfair, wasn't it?

Pam Ayres2:46

Very interesting.

Presenter2:47

He went to school in in Berkshire and in Farringdon.

Pam Ayres2:50

That's right, yes, I did.

Presenter2:51

But you left at fifteen. Whose idea was that?

Pam Ayres2:53

Well, I didn't really have much choice. I mean, I was from a big family, the six of us, and uh

Pam Ayres2:59

At the time, at that school, staying on any longer was the exception rather than the rule.

Presenter3:06

What did you want to do?

Pam Ayres3:08

Don't know. Didn't have any idea at all buttons.

Presenter3:10

Did you enjoy school?

Pam Ayres3:12

I enjoyed English and I enjoyed art, but

Pam Ayres3:15

Apart from that I I wasn't that keen. I was such a drip, Roy, I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do with my life.

Presenter3:21

What was your first job? What did what did you do? Fifteen, just left school.

Pam Ayres3:22

The f

Pam Ayres3:24

Uh

Pam Ayres3:26

Do you want me to tell you the truth?

Presenter3:28

Yeah.

Pam Ayres3:29

I applied for a job washing up.

Pam Ayres3:32

at the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Harwell, which is a very prestigious place to wash up.

Presenter3:37

She thinks so. You've got to fill up a lot of forms before they let you wash up in there.

Pam Ayres3:39

More than

Pam Ayres3:41

That's right. But my mother stepped in. She said, No, I'm not having airpan washing up for a living. She never washed up for me. So she went to the youth employment officer and um she got me an interview with the civil service. So I went along and took this test, this written test, and they accepted me and and so I was a civil servant at fifteen, filling in forms all day.

Presenter4:00

And you'd never washed up at all.

Pam Ayres4:02

I never had to wash it I never had to turn me hand to washing up once, no.

Presenter4:06

So a civil servant, no less. Did you think you were going to stay for

Presenter4:10

Fifty years and run the place.

Pam Ayres4:12

Oh no, I didn't like it much, but I didn't really know what else to do. I was filling in these forms all day with ladies a great deal older than myself.

Presenter4:20

Uh

Pam Ayres4:21

And there was this man who w who worked there, and he had been in the RAF for a long time, and he was always saying, Whoa, what a life What a time I had all the tea and travel and crumpet he used to

Presenter4:34

And so

Pam Ayres4:34

And so because he kept on about it and and I saw one or two adverts in the paper for the Air Force, I thought, well, I don't know, perhaps it'd be better than sitting here filling these forms in. So I um applied well, I I went along to the office and they said

Pam Ayres4:49

Come in So I went.

Presenter4:51

Yes, indeed. Where did they send you?

Pam Ayres4:53

Well, I first of all want to a place in Lincolnshire for the training.

Pam Ayres4:56

And then I went to a place called Brampton in Huntingdonshire, where I was uh working in a drawing office for just under two years.

Presenter5:05

Drawing what?

Pam Ayres5:06

Oh, maps and

Presenter5:08

Mm-hmm.

Pam Ayres5:08

Stuff. I wasn't very good at it. You notice I glossed quickly over the subject, but you

Pam Ayres5:15

Mm, well.

Pam Ayres5:17

Yes, but you see the trouble was when I went to the recruiting officer, he said, What do you like doing, ducks? and I said, Drawing, Sergeant. He said, Right, I've got the very job for you and so he put me in a drawing office, but I didn't mean that sort of drawing at all. But it was too late when I discovered my error. But the compensating thing was that um

Pam Ayres5:38

With the Air Force I was then posted to Singapore and then the whole picture changed because that was super.

Presenter5:41

Yeah.

Presenter5:44

Oh yes I

Pam Ayres5:46

Oh yes, I was still drawing. We had a little ut at the end of the runway, so these andovers kept taking off and you were deafened about twenty times a day. But it was wonderful there. It was so warm and it was such a contrast to Stamford in the Vale,'cause I'd never been out of the country before, and so that was a wonderful place to start.

Presenter6:04

Uh

Pam Ayres6:05

And also it got me interested in theatre.

Pam Ayres6:08

How was that? Well, it there was a theatre club there, and I went along and I got some parts in the play, some funny parts, and I found that I really enjoyed it.

Presenter6:09

How is that?

Presenter6:19

Tell us some of the parts you played.

Pam Ayres6:21

Oh, crikey.

Pam Ayres6:22

Well, I played oh, there was a chillin' farce, was the first one, called Wanted One Body.

Pam Ayres6:32

And I was the maid I was always the maid, boy.

Presenter6:34

I I think it was me voice.

Pam Ayres6:35

I I think it was my voice.

Pam Ayres6:38

I I had to come on and say I remember the very line I had to come on and say Here's half a crown for your trouble, my man.

Pam Ayres6:47

And there's a memorable line.

Presenter6:48

Yes. And a lot of sports you were doing.

Pam Ayres6:51

Well, considering there were only thirty-five of us Women's Royal Air Force girls there, you see, I I was very much at an at an advantage because

Presenter7:01

I should think so.

Pam Ayres7:02

I had long legs, and none of the others were interested in running.

Pam Ayres7:06

So if I entered anything, the chances were I was gonna win. So it was um I don't feel that.

Pam Ayres7:12

I am

Pam Ayres7:14

had much competition really. But the the day of reckoning came when I was running for the Far East Air Force at a stadium called Dover Road, and I was beaten by a lady called Glory Barnabas.

Pam Ayres7:27

She left me standing.

Presenter7:27

She left me standing.

Presenter7:31

And has she come on to greater things than that?

Pam Ayres7:33

I don't know. She was an Indian lady. I saw her all wrapped up in a sari, and I remember thinking, well, she'd never be able to run in that.

Presenter7:40

But she could.

Presenter7:42

And you became a senior aircraftswoman.

Pam Ayres7:44

Hmm after a lot of striving.

Pam Ayres7:47

I mean, it was no rank really. It was I took the exam about a dozen times.

Presenter7:47

I mean it was

Presenter7:52

Now you took a a creative writing course while you were still in uniform.

Pam Ayres7:55

Oh yes, I did. That was a good thing for me to do. That was when I came home from Singapore. And it came round on station orders that if you wanted to, if you felt it would be a good thing, you could go on this creative writing course. And it was in Great Missenden, in a lovely old abbey. So I applied. I thought, well, anything's better than sitting here doing nothing. So I applied and I spun some convincing story about how I would be able to write better letters for my boss and that. And so they let me go. And I had a lovely time. The the man who was looking after us down there was called James Parrish. He was a playwright. I don't know. Do you know James Parrish?

Presenter8:32

Don't know.

Pam Ayres8:34

Well, he was uh he was looking after us and setting us all the things to do, and I went into the story writing section, and at the end of the course he summoned me to his study. I never forget it,'cause it was so exciting. And I'd always liked writing, but I didn't think I could make a living at it. And he said, You, Miss Ayres, are a writer.

Pam Ayres8:54

He said you've got a good style and you need to go away and work hard and one day you'll be somebody and I oh, the first thing I did was I can it and drew all my savings at the post office and bought a typewriter.

Presenter9:07

Well

Pam Ayres9:08

I bought a typewriter and I wrote all these terrible stories and I shipped them off to all the most unlikely magazines and they all came back and I got a bit discouraged.

Presenter9:19

It tends to

Pam Ayres9:20

It turned out right in the end.

Presenter9:21

It turned out all right in the end. Let's have your second record. What's that to be?

Pam Ayres9:25

My second record is by two friends of mine called John and Chris Leslie, who live near Banbury, and it's a smashing folk record called The New Saint George.

Presenter9:37

The New Saint George by John and Chris Leslie, and they come from Your Naked Woods.

Pam Ayres9:42

They came from near Banbury, yes. Unfortunately they've split up now, which is very sad because I think they are really good.

Presenter9:48

Now what happened to you when you came out of the WRAF?

Pam Ayres9:51

I went to a famous holiday camp.

Presenter9:53

Oh, that one, yeah.

Pam Ayres9:53

Good.

Presenter9:55

Uh as a red coat.

Pam Ayres9:56

Yeah.

Presenter9:58

How long did that last?

Pam Ayres9:58

Three days.

Presenter9:59

Was it the coach you didn't like or the job?

Pam Ayres10:02

Hm. Well, the coat was all right. It had amazing padded shoulders, I remember, like angled flight decks, they were.

Presenter10:08

Only three days. They wouldn't give you a reference after that, would they?

Pam Ayres10:11

Well, I wouldn't give them one. I wasn't very impressed with it really. It wasn't what I had in mind. It was very much geared for students at that time. I don't know what it's like now. For a transient population.

Speaker 110:20

Fair.

Pam Ayres10:22

I thought I'd get into entertainment, because that was what I wanted to do, but I didn't see a way of doing it because I was carrying round slot buckets for all for the first three days, and I thought, No, this is not the road to the top.

Presenter10:26

Yet.

Presenter10:34

So that was the last three days.

Pam Ayres10:36

Yeah, that's right.

Presenter10:38

Now how was the writing going? You were writing short stories. When did you start writing verse?

Pam Ayres10:42

Well, I'd written a few. I wrote one or two in Singapore because we used to have these little one out plays on a Friday night, sometimes social evenings at the theatre club, and then people would stand up and do a turn. And uh so I did write one or two little poems to stand up and recite. But I didn't start doing it in earnest.

Speaker 110:54

Uh

Presenter10:54

Yeah.

Pam Ayres11:01

Until Radio Oxford took me under their wing really and then I started to really think about writing poems.

Presenter11:05

Yeah, then

Presenter11:08

What job were you doing at that time?

Pam Ayres11:10

Well, after I failed miserably at the famous holiday camp,

Pam Ayres11:14

I was on the dole then for an ignominious week or so, and my brother Rodge, who worked at the um

Pam Ayres11:20

Leyland Works put in a good word for me and got me a job well, I got me an interview as a typist, which was the biggest calm on earth'cause I couldn't type to save me like anyway, I turned up there and I worked there for six months for the Leyland company, um, as a typist in the accounts department. I used to write stories and I was just writing stories in my spare time'cause all my jobs were so boring I had to do something to um

Speaker 111:30

Anyway, I turned it.

Pam Ayres11:47

I keep myself interested.

Presenter11:49

Now how how did Radio Oxford come on the scene?

Pam Ayres11:51

Yes, well

Pam Ayres11:53

I worked for Leyland for six months and then I went to work for a nearby company called Smith's and I stayed there for six years and I settled down to live in Whitney. I had a flat there, a little flat, and then I started to go to the local folk club, which is where I used to listen to all this wonderful folk music I'm so keen on.

Pam Ayres12:16

And then I started to r write poems because um

Pam Ayres12:20

I wanted to stand up and do something, and my singing voice is not that'ot. So I had a few poems and I wrote a few more, and I used to stand up and recite those in the folk club, and as a result of that

Pam Ayres12:31

Anybody who was organising something charitable in the area tended to say, Would you come along to Pam and give us one of your famous poems? And I had a T shirt.

Pam Ayres12:43

With famous broadcasting personality written across the front. So I used to put my famous broadcasting personality t shirt on and go along and recite some poems. And as a result of these um charitable do's,

Pam Ayres12:56

A friend had a friend at Radio Oxford, and this friend was organising a a concert, and he said, Would you like me to suggest you for Radio Oxford? and I said, Yes, please.

Pam Ayres13:07

That was a rather roundabout way of tuning it.

Pam Ayres13:10

Uh

Presenter13:10

Well, nevertheless, we got there eventually, and you got to Radio Oxford. What did you do on Radio Oxford? What was your first poem?

Pam Ayres13:10

Uh

Pam Ayres13:13

You got to re

Pam Ayres13:17

Well, it was a tremulous battery hen. I was petrified. It was in 1974. And I only did the battery hen'cause I didn't like it.

Presenter13:21

Let's increase.

Presenter13:26

It's rather an angry poem, Pamela it's funny, but angry. You you really feel for the battery hymn.

Pam Ayres13:29

Dang.

Pam Ayres13:32

Yeah, I think it's a pretty um grim way of life for uh one of God's creatures, I must say.

Presenter13:37

Yeah.

Presenter13:38

They wanted more. Had you got a lot more?

Pam Ayres13:41

Yes, I'd got some that I liked better, but because I'd had dire warnings about people stealing me copyrights, I did the Battery Hen first,'cause I didn't like that one so much as the others for instance the Edge Og. I kept that up my sleeve, the Edge Og. Not literally,'cause that would have been very uncomfortable.

Speaker 113:54

Really?

Pam Ayres13:56

But I did the battery hen first, and I thought if anybody pinches it I shan't mind so much.

Presenter14:01

Mm-hmm.

Pam Ayres14:02

But they did like it and they said do some more. So I came back and I did the edge og.

Presenter14:08

Did people write in and say they wanted to buy you a book?

Pam Ayres14:10

Mm, yeah, they did. They wrote to Radio Oxford. It was lovely.

Presenter14:13

It was lovely. So you you published some yourself, didn't you?

Pam Ayres14:16

Yes, well, I couldn't interest anybody else. You see, I only had eight poems altogether, and I rang one or two of the publishing houses, and of course they weren't interested, and they said go home and throw a c bucket of cold water over yourself

Pam Ayres14:30

Uh

Presenter14:30

Uh

Pam Ayres14:30

Something like that. So I published them myself because I knew there was this demand because I had all the letters from people saying, where can we buy them?

Presenter14:30

Something

Presenter14:36

Those very first editions must now be collectors' pieces.

Pam Ayres14:41

Well, I suppose so. Although I did sell seven thousand in the end, so there are quite a few well, no, the first one, the very small one, there were just five hundred of those.

Pam Ayres14:50

But I did go on to sell seven thousand on my own.

Presenter14:53

How much did you charge?

Pam Ayres14:54

Fortypence. I had a little line that I used to say at the end of a concert. If I was invited out to do a concert.

Pam Ayres15:00

I used to recite the poems, and then I used to say If you like me poems and you want to'ear some more, I've got a book for fortypence, buy it at the door.

Presenter15:09

Seven thousand and forty pence this is not bad.

Pam Ayres15:12

It paid for me to go to America actually. I paid um the fare to America for a nice holiday.

Presenter15:17

I'm sure.

Pam Ayres15:18

Hmm.

Presenter15:18

Let's have your third record. What should that be?

Pam Ayres15:21

Oh, yes, I'd like no regrets from Edith Piaff, because it sends shivers up my spine, please.

Presenter15:29

Needed Piaf? No, I don't regret anything. Now, you had been appearing at at concerts and so on, and you were building up a nice little business in in Radio, Oxford. What was the next good thing to happen?

Pam Ayres15:43

Um

Pam Ayres15:45

Well the

Pam Ayres15:46

The next thing really was on opportunity Knox, yes. I'm just thinking if it comes in chronological order. I think it does. Yes, I think it's all right.

Presenter15:55

Yes, you kept turning up on Opportunity Knox.

Pam Ayres15:58

Well, I was on it four times altogether.

Pam Ayres16:01

I did go along for the audition. I went to Birmingham. I thought, well, because you see, I was curious. So people were all buying my books of poems, and Radio Oxford were patting me on the back and saying, Well done, you're gonna go far. And I sort of got curious and I thought, I'll go along to this audition and see what a professional bunch of people think of me act. And I went along and they were very enthusiastic. I was amazed. And so I went on the show at the end of 75.

Pam Ayres16:28

And I won it, and then I went back and I was joint winner, and then I went back and I didn't win it.

Pam Ayres16:35

I was on four times altogether'cause there was sort of a round up of winners programme and then there was a programme that was shown in Australia. So I was on Opportunity Knox four times altogether.

Presenter16:44

But this this was very encouraging of

Presenter16:48

And there was something of a rush of agents to your door. They they thought there was potential in that.

Pam Ayres16:52

Oh my goodness.

Presenter16:53

Oh, yeah.

Pam Ayres16:54

It was just awful, it was bewildering at the time.

Presenter16:58

Uh

Pam Ayres16:58

Although it sounds marvellous enough, in fact I was at my wit's end, because

Pam Ayres17:03

From typing away all day, I was suddenly trying to cope with all these people on the phone, and some of them sounded very shady, I might add. People ringing up saying, I'll rush out the contract by taxi, just sign it and everything will be alright, my dear. And people saying, Let me be your agent, let me be your this, let me be your that. And I had no experience at all to cope with that situation. I had nobody to go to, it was no good asking me mum and dad. One morning I had twenty phone calls, and my boss kept coming out of his office saying, It's for you again.

Speaker 117:37

Yeah.

Pam Ayres17:38

So in the end I resigned. I had to resign and I thought, well, I'll give it a go and see how I get on as an entertainer, stroke writer, stroke poet.

Presenter17:45

Mm-hmm.

Pam Ayres17:46

Uh

Presenter17:46

Yeah.

Pam Ayres17:46

And that was February, Friday the 13th of February I left my job.

Presenter17:50

That's my job.

Pam Ayres17:52

Hmm, yeah.

Presenter17:53

Well, that was handy. I mean that was

Pam Ayres17:55

Oh yes. I mean, in fact, a proper firm offer came for me to do an advert for cheese.

Pam Ayres18:01

So I thought I'll take the money for doing that cheese advert and I'll resign my job and I'll give it a go and see if I can make out see if I can continue to pay the rent. And so I did.

Presenter18:13

And then came your own television series, and that was a gorgeous first peak in your career where we might stop for record number four.

Pam Ayres18:21

Well, yes. This is a a smashing record that I've had for a long time. It's no longer available. Um, it's by a group who've long since disbanded called The Gaels, and it's a a lovely Gaelic

Pam Ayres18:35

Er but I can't pronounce it right,'cause it's in Gaelic.

Presenter18:38

Ah, well let's not try. What does it mean in English? Do you know that?

Pam Ayres18:41

It means mountain of the women.

Presenter18:43

Let us stay with that. We can both say that.

Pam Ayres18:46

Yes, let's say that.

Presenter18:50

Mountain of the Women A Lament by The Gales

Pam Ayres18:54

Mm I love that. It's so sad.

Presenter18:57

Now all these successes were based on your poems. Can you write poems easily? How long does it take you?

Pam Ayres19:04

Oh, it varies, Roy. Sometimes I can write one in an afternoon, and then others take me years. I sort of incubate them. I've just uh finished one called The Ballad of Bill Spinks's Bedstead, which I started to write over two years ago, and I finished last night.

Presenter19:19

Well, darn. Anyway, we s you soon had enough for a proper book. What was your first proper book called? In other words, uh apart from the self publishing bit.

Pam Ayres19:28

Ah yes. The proper book was called Some of Me Poems.

Presenter19:31

How many did that sell?

Pam Ayres19:33

Half a million.

Presenter19:34

It's not bad.

Presenter19:35

Altogether you've written, what, three books of poems?

Pam Ayres19:38

Three books of poems, yes, and then an omnibus edition was printed with them with them all in.

Presenter19:40

Yes, sir.

Presenter19:45

All Pam's poem.

Pam Ayres19:46

That's right.

Presenter19:47

Now, the Battery Hymn, your first poem on Radio Oxford b that we talked about, had a certain amount of anger. You do write commission poems for good causes, don't you?

Pam Ayres19:58

Yes, occasionally. I prefer to write from an idea that I had myself, but if I think it's gonna benefit somebody.

Pam Ayres20:06

If I particularly want to do it, then I I can, yes. I never enjoy it as much though. And so many people write and say

Speaker 120:10

One

Pam Ayres20:14

Can you write me a poem for my son's wedding? He's getting married to Clara on Saturday and I'd like to be able to stand up and recite one of your poems. I couldn't do that. I couldn't. I'd like to, but there's no way I could do that.

Presenter20:22

Yeah.

Presenter20:24

No why?

Presenter20:27

Record number five.

Pam Ayres20:28

Um is oh, it's Randy Adelman. This is a bit of romance. If I'm feeling a bit fed up on me desert island, I shall go misty eyed and listen to Randy Adelman singing A Weekend in New England.

Presenter20:43

Randy Edelman, A Weekend in New England. You've written a children's book in prose.

Pam Ayres20:48

Yes.

Presenter20:49

And you've illustrated it yourself very charmingly.

Pam Ayres20:53

Okay.

Presenter20:53

Was this nothing to do with the drawing office, this ability to draw and paint?

Pam Ayres20:56

This is despite the drawing. Yeah, I've always liked drawing. I've always done it for fun. I've never had any training of any kind. It's just something that I've got.

Presenter21:04

Mm

Pam Ayres21:09

a natural affection for and I've always found I can do.

Presenter21:11

Okay, cool.

Presenter21:13

You have a lovely sense of colour and a sense of fun.

Pam Ayres21:16

Well, thank you.

Presenter21:17

What what's this book called? I I haven't

Pam Ayres21:19

Well, it's a children's story. It's called Bertha and the Racing Pigeon.

Presenter21:23

So far I I haven't read it. I've only looked at the pictures. I shall read it this evening.

Pam Ayres21:26

I should read it.

Pam Ayres21:28

Well, it's a death-defying story. Would you like me to briefly outline the plot?

Presenter21:32

By all means.

Pam Ayres21:32

Yeah. Well, it's a story about Bertha Pigeon. She's a wood pigeon, an ordinary person, but very nice, and she lives in the country near where I do, and she meets this answer

Pam Ayres21:43

racing pigeon called Fleet, who's exhausted, is on a race, and he flops down in front of where she lives, and she befriends him and looks after him, but he is worth money.

Pam Ayres21:54

And because of this they fall foul of the dreaded villain Quick Buck Arris, who is out, as his name suggests, to make a quick buck, and Quick Buck Harris kidnaps him, and it's the death defying story of the ensuing chase. And I can't tell you any more because people can understand so much excitement in one book.

Presenter22:12

I can't wait to read it. I don't think I'll wait till I get home. I'll start reading it in the train.

Presenter22:23

You've written a column for newspaper.

Pam Ayres22:25

Oh yes, I did uh I did dabble with that. I'm not sure it was a great success.

Presenter22:27

Show

Presenter22:29

You've written a novel.

Pam Ayres22:30

Hm, yes.

Presenter22:31

We haven't seen that yet.

Pam Ayres22:33

I know it's still mouldering in the bottom of the wardrobe.

Presenter22:35

When are we when are you going to bring it out?

Pam Ayres22:37

Well, I don't know, Roy. I wrote it in nineteen seventy four.

Presenter22:41

Have you shown it to anyone yet?

Pam Ayres22:41

Am I a sure

Pam Ayres22:42

No. No, I haven't actually. I just did it for fun. I'm not sure it's got what it takes, to be honest. It's got some good bits, but it's also got some bits that um I wish I hadn't written in retrospect.

Presenter22:50

It's all

Presenter22:53

In retrospect. Well, you haven't sent it round yet, so you've got time to sort that out, haven't you?

Pam Ayres22:57

Yes, one day I'd like to dig it out and revamp it because at the time I wrote it I was thrilled with it. I thought it was a really smashing story.

Pam Ayres23:06

But, um the further away from it I get, the more I feel it wants things doing to it, and I haven't really got time at the moment.

Presenter23:10

And I

Presenter23:13

And you've been taking dancing lessons?

Pam Ayres23:17

I did. I've sort of given it up now. I did take some tap dancing lessons for the T V series I did, but I could never quite crack it, if I'm honest, Roy. My feet wouldn't um

Pam Ayres23:29

wouldn't go in the right direction.

Presenter23:31

No, but are you going back to it, do you think? I mean, in other words, do you think that you want to be a full-time complete entertainer, the singer, dancer, writer?

Pam Ayres23:40

I'm much more interested in writing and illustrating and talking. In as I do most one-man show.

Presenter23:46

And

Pam Ayres23:48

than trying to dance and sing,'cause there's other people who can do it far, far better than I.

Presenter23:55

Rare God Number Six.

Pam Ayres23:56

is oh, it's a lovely song. It's Miss Alliance from Flanders and Swan, and I love it because it's so clever and it's got a good message, and everybody can understand it. It's it's clever, but it isn't highbrow.

Presenter24:14

Flanders and Swann Miss Alliance. Now, Pam, as an ex senior aircraftswoman, we're expecting you to be an especially capable castaway. Could you look after yourself on a desert island?

Pam Ayres24:25

Well, I'm not much of a cook. I think I left.

Presenter24:27

Not much of a cook, no.

Pam Ayres24:29

No, I hope a lot of cocoanuts would drop in the vicinity because I'm not confident that I could cook a lot, and I certainly couldn't kill anything.

Presenter24:36

No. Could you build a shelter?

Pam Ayres24:39

Oh, I think so, yes.

Presenter24:40

His

Pam Ayres24:40

Oh, I think I could manage that. If there were some banana leaves, they're very good for roof tops, I understand.

Presenter24:46

Yes, of course your tropical experience. And fish, some awaby soup and and leeches. I I know

Pam Ayres24:52

Oh, and leeches. I I know how to cope with leeches as well because I went on a jungle survival course when I was in Singapore.

Presenter25:00

Invaluable experience. Now you can give us some tips.

Pam Ayres25:01

Now you can

Pam Ayres25:03

Well you have to pick em off your legs.

Presenter25:05

But the leeches, yes.

Pam Ayres25:06

That's

Pam Ayres25:07

Otherwise they go septic and it can all be very nasty.

Presenter25:09

Would you try to escape?

Pam Ayres25:12

Yes, I think I'd I don't think I'd like complete isolation,'cause I'm very close to me family and I'd miss'em. I think I'd try and get away and I'm quite a good swimmer.

Presenter25:22

Correct.

Pam Ayres25:22

But then I'm scared of sharks, so uh

Presenter25:25

Not we all.

Pam Ayres25:26

Yes, I'm not sure how successful I'd be, but I think I'd try. I wouldn't want to sit there forever.

Presenter25:32

Record number seven.

Pam Ayres25:34

Oh, well this is sort of connected with my family, because it's a track from Annie, the musical Annie, because this Christmas I'd been was so busy well, last Christmas I should say, I was so busy and I felt as though I'd neglected all my ten nieces and nephews. I didn't feel as though I'd give em a nice present.

Pam Ayres25:50

So what we did, we arranged this Sharabang out into Annie and we had a wonderful day and we we packed my Merman, the youngest of the nieces and nephews in the Sharabang and we came out for the day and we went to London and we all had hamburgers and walked round the tower and went to see Annie and it was a great success and uh the track I'd like from Annie to remind me of that happy day is The Hard Knock Life.

Presenter26:17

The Hard Knocked Life from Annie, sung by Annie and the Orphans. Now you're off to Canada, that's not your first trip.

Pam Ayres26:24

No, I've been to Canada twice this year, in fact, and I'm just about to go back for a third time.

Pam Ayres26:30

I've been there so far on the two previous visits to make a film.

Pam Ayres26:35

called Palmez's Canadian Christmas, I think, which is going to be on the telly on the Sunday before Christmas, and it's a light hearted look at the beauties of Canada, and it is a beautiful country.

Pam Ayres26:45

And uh I I was doing all sorts of things there. I was riding in the rodeo and canoeing and flying in float planes and

Pam Ayres26:53

It was super and we were talking to people who'd emigrated from England to live in Canada.

Pam Ayres26:59

and seeing how how they'd adapted and what kind of things they did in their spare time. And we took a raft twenty five miles down the Thompson River with one family and and then I had to go and get kissed by a killer whale. That was a very frightening experience.

Presenter27:13

Yeah. I hope you got paid extra for that.

Pam Ayres27:15

Yes, I hope so too.

Presenter27:17

Yeah.

Pam Ayres27:18

I'll let you know when they come off strike.

Presenter27:20

Right. Your last record. What's that?

Pam Ayres27:23

Oh, my last record this is one of my favorite records in all the world. When I was touring in Australia and New Zealand I met this wonderful man called Fred Dagg.

Pam Ayres27:34

And Fred Dagg uh writes extremely funny things. Um he's a New Zealander. He's my friend, but so I'm a bit biased. But have a listen to this. It's the twenty first birthday.

Presenter27:50

A speech by Fred Dagg.

Presenter27:53

If you could only take one disk out of the eight, which would it be?

Pam Ayres27:57

Well, I think I would take The New Saint George by John and Chris Leslie, because it's lovely music which I can't sit still and listen to, so I think it would be sort of music to thatch your mudder by.

Presenter28:11

Right. And one luxury?

Pam Ayres28:13

I'll have a skip of sugared almonds, please.

Presenter28:16

Yeah.

Pam Ayres28:16

I'm very partial to a sugared almond.

Presenter28:18

All right, great big basket of sugar dorms. And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare and We Frown on Big Encyclopedias.

Pam Ayres28:27

Right. Well, I think I'm a bit torn here, because I would like either Winifred Foley's A Child in the Forest, which is charming, or I'd like Frederick Forsythe's Day of the Jackal, which is exciting.

Presenter28:40

Yes, right. Snap decision, which

Pam Ayres28:43

I'll be excited. Freddy Forsyth, please.

Presenter28:44

Fatty f

Presenter28:46

Dale the Jackal and I think we should allow you the works of one other poet.

Pam Ayres28:52

Oh, well, without any hesitation at all, I have William McGonagall, please.

Presenter28:59

And thank you, Pamirs, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Pam Ayres29:03

It's been very nice. Thank you for having me.

Presenter29:06

Goodbye, everyone.