Peter Barkworth

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy nine, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Speaker 40:31

This week, our castaway is the actor Peter Barkworth.

Speaker 40:36

You are a music lover. You you play the piano? Yes, I do.

Speaker 40:39

Have you found that useful?

Peter Barkworth0:40

in your acting career.

Peter Barkworth0:43

Not a great deal. I played the piano quite a lot in Telford's Change, and I have played the piano several times in plays. So, just as something else I can do, it has been a help. Have you a big collection of records?

Peter Barkworth0:56

Yes, but I I don't seem to have bought any lately. And I think it's because I suppose it's as one gets older there seems to be more and more to do. And also my energy level is less than it used to be.

Peter Barkworth1:09

And I like a rest in the afternoons. I don't want that rest to be accompanied by Gramopho records, because I would have to get up and and change them over.

Peter Barkworth1:18

Well, what's the first one you've chosen for the island?

Peter Barkworth1:21

It's Elgar's first symphony. I think this might make me a bit tearful, because it is so very, very English, and it would make me very homesick. But it is also very beautiful music, especially, I think, in Scholte's performance.

Peter Barkworth1:40

It's the best performance of it I've ever heard, because he makes the music live and breathe in a way that no other conductor has ever done, I think, even from the very first bar.

Speaker 42:50

The opening of Elgar's first symphony in A-flat, George Shelty conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Speaker 42:57

Now, I've looked you up in Who's Who in the Theatre and one or two other reference books. You were born in

Peter Barkworth3:02

Margate. Were you brought up there? No, I think I spent six months there. I have no recollection of it at all. After Margot we moved to Kenton in Middlesex. And you announced at the age of five that you were going to be an actor? Yes, I was a member of the Wolf Cub pack in Kenton.

Peter Barkworth3:19

And it was my first part. We put on a play called Simple Simon, and I was Simple Simon. I don't remember saying to my mother, Oh, mummy, I do want to be an actor when I grow up, but she always said to me that that is what I said when I was five.

Speaker 43:33

Were there opportunities to keep going?

Peter Barkworth3:35

A school, for example?

Peter Barkworth3:37

Not that I can remember in Kenton, but certainly one of the greatest influences of me altogether was the school I went to in Stockport in Cheshire.

Peter Barkworth3:47

When I was fifteen I was Macbeth, and when I was sixteen I was Caesar in Caesar and Cleopatra, and when I was seventeen I was Hamlet. And I think that that, more than anything else, made me really decide that I had to be an actor.

Speaker 13:54

And I

Peter Barkworth4:00

Where did you study for the stage when you were left school? At the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. It was quite hard then because there were no grants in those days and my father was very poor during the war. He had a directed occupation and earned only eight pounds a week. And at the end of the war, which was just when I wanted to go to Rada, he was three thousand pounds in debt.

Peter Barkworth4:20

I got a scholarship for Arda, but it didn't cover any of the maintenance that I needed.

Peter Barkworth4:26

My father had become a Christian scientist, and had given up smoking and drinking, and he thought.

Peter Barkworth4:33

that if he had gone on smoking and drinking, he would have spent an additional two pounds fifteen shillings a week on them.

Peter Barkworth4:42

So he knocked on my bedroom door.

Peter Barkworth4:45

Very early one morning it was six o'clock, I remember.

Peter Barkworth4:48

And he said, Peter, I think you can go to Rada after all, now that you've got a scholarship.

Peter Barkworth4:53

Provided you think that you would live on £2.15 a week. Do you think you can do that? So I said, oh yes, I'm sure I can. Of course I can.

Peter Barkworth5:02

It was quite hard though, because that two pounds fifteen shillings a week, which is nothing now, but it wasn't wasn't much then, and that had to cover digs, it had to cover all traveling, it had to cover going to the theatre, it had to cover all meals. So it was very hard. I mean, I I had no luxuries at all while I was at Rado. However, he kept it up for two years.

Speaker 45:19

However, he

Peter Barkworth5:21

What was your first job?

Speaker 45:23

In the theatre.

Peter Barkworth5:23

My first job on leaving Rada was to go to Folkestone Rep.

Speaker 45:28

Yeah.

Peter Barkworth5:28

My first part there was the guinea-pig.

Peter Barkworth5:30

Well, there you are in the theatre. What's your second record?

Peter Barkworth5:34

Rossini's stubborn martyr.

Peter Barkworth5:37

I would like to have a religious record.

Peter Barkworth5:40

But I think I especially like it because it's so full of hit tunes. It's one long

Peter Barkworth5:46

procession of hit tunes. The first, I suppose, is the first tenor aria.

Speaker 46:48

The first tenor aria from Rossini's Stabat Mata and the singer was Josef Traxel. So you were in rep at Folkestone. T Matinees, you remember?

Peter Barkworth7:00

Oh, could I ever forget

Peter Barkworth7:01

We did nine performances a week, and three of those were tea matinees, when every alternate row of seats was taken out and tables were put in their place, and tea was actually served during the performance. I think it was there that I learned how to giggle.

Peter Barkworth7:14

Uh

Speaker 47:15

You also had to learn to shout, I should think, to get over all that noise.

Peter Barkworth7:16

To get over all that noise.

Peter Barkworth7:19

Where next? Where after Folkestone? I went to Sheffield Rep and I stayed there for two years.

Speaker 47:22

Yeah, I think.

Speaker 47:25

Was it still weekly in those days?

Peter Barkworth7:26

No, it was always fortnightly.

Peter Barkworth7:30

I was lucky at Sheffield. I I really could say that I that I've never ever been ambitious.

Peter Barkworth7:37

I just taken what comes and never dreamed of the future at all.

Peter Barkworth7:43

And I was thinking that perhaps after Sheffield it might be quite nice to go to Liverpool rup. However, I had two rather good parts at Sheffield, one after the other. What were they? One was Figure of Fun.

Peter Barkworth7:56

and the other was a play called His Excellency.

Peter Barkworth7:59

And up to Sheffield came the casting director of HM Tennant.

Peter Barkworth8:04

Daphne Rye.

Peter Barkworth8:06

The man who became my agent for twenty six years, Kenneth Carton.

Peter Barkworth8:10

and they saw a performance of His Excellency.

Peter Barkworth8:13

And because I didn't particularly think of going to London, I had never seen myself as a London actor, I think I must have been the least nervous actor on that stage that night, because these very important people were out front.

Peter Barkworth8:27

I was invited. I alone from the company was invited out to dinner with them.

Peter Barkworth8:32

And then they came to see a rehearsal of Figure of Fun the following morning.

Peter Barkworth8:36

And I was given a contract with my agent and what became a five-year contract with HM Tennant. So I came to London.

Peter Barkworth8:44

Which was all a very nice surprise.

Speaker 48:46

What was your first

Peter Barkworth8:47

Deppearance in London.

Speaker 48:47

Yeah.

Peter Barkworth8:48

My first appearance was in a play by Dodie Smith called Letter from Paris. It was um an adaptation of a story by Henry James, and it opened at the Aldwych to booze. The stalls applauded, the gods booed.

Speaker 49:02

The stalls.

Peter Barkworth9:06

That was my introduction to London, and it was pretty shaking. Well, you might as well get it over right at the beginning. Yes, I know. The play lasted three weeks. Oh, did it? But I suppose I was glad that it did last only three weeks, because very few people came to see it.

Peter Barkworth9:21

Yeah.

Speaker 49:21

Really?

Peter Barkworth9:21

Record number three. I would have to have some Brahms. And it's been quite hard for me to choose this, because I'd really like all his works.

Peter Barkworth9:29

But I've chosen a very nice record played by Agustin Enievas. It has um variations and fugue on a theme by Handel on one side and my current favourite, which is the variations on a theme by Paganini, on the other. The Paganini variations, I think, are absolutely beautiful.

Speaker 410:37

One of the Brahms variations on a theme by Paganini.

Speaker 410:40

Played by Augustin Anievas.

Speaker 410:43

Now let's talk about your West End stage career. You had bad luck with that first one, the the Davy Smith play.

Speaker 410:50

What happened after that?

Speaker 410:52

Yeah.

Peter Barkworth10:52

I was in a revival on Coronation Year.

Peter Barkworth10:55

of Wilde's play, A Woman of No Importance at the Savoy. That was my first experience of a long run. Uh it was a very lavish production and uh it was the first time that I'd ever been in anything which was quite as sumptuous.

Speaker 411:08

Now your first few plays were the works of very distinguished playwrights, Christopher Frye and Neryl Coward. Yes, South Sea Bubble.

Speaker 411:18

What was the first play in which you feel that you you made an impact?

Peter Barkworth11:23

I had a declining time, actually, during the fifties.

Peter Barkworth11:27

And it was only when I started teaching at Rada that I seemed to get back some of the confidence.

Peter Barkworth11:35

which I had when I was in Rep.

Peter Barkworth11:37

I started teaching at Radha. I did it for seven years altogether. But I started in 1955.

Peter Barkworth11:44

And

Peter Barkworth11:45

In nineteen fifty seven, I was in a play called Raw Like a Dove. It lasted for three years at the Phoenix Theatre, and I had a very funny and very short part. I think I was on the stage for fifteen minutes at each performance. So combining teaching during the day and doing this short and funny part at night constituted really one of the happiest times of my life. And I think it was the first time that I got

Peter Barkworth12:09

reviews in the newspapers uh that I've kept.

Speaker 412:14

You went to New York with a play.

Peter Barkworth12:16

Yes, I did. I was in a revival in 1962 of the School for Scandal at the Haymarket Theatre.

Peter Barkworth12:22

And uh just before we went to America we had a change of some of the cast and took it for a five-month season in America. We toured many of the great cities and had two months in New York.

Speaker 412:34

And you are back at the hay market and having a singular success in In Crown Matrimonial. Uh

Peter Barkworth12:39

That's right, yes. Uh that was ten years later.

Peter Barkworth12:43

I was a bit worried about going back into the theatre, because it had been seven years since I'd last appeared in the theatre.

Speaker 412:49

It was all television.

Peter Barkworth12:50

Yes, and I had accepted and I liked the label a television actor.

Peter Barkworth12:57

I was in two minds whether or not to take the part of Edward VIII in crown matrimonial.

Peter Barkworth13:04

I'm so pleased I did because it was one of the high spots of my theatrical life.

Speaker 413:10

And another high spot recently was Donkey's Years, that very funny place.

Peter Barkworth13:13

Yes, it was a funny play. I remember when Michael Codron

Peter Barkworth13:18

offered it to me.

Peter Barkworth13:19

On the telephone.

Peter Barkworth13:21

He said you may think, he told me briefly the story of it, and he said, you may think that it's a light comedy which degenerates into being a farce, and you may think it's not really your cup of tea, and if you do, I shall quite understand. When I read it, it did make me laugh out loud many times, and I thought, he's quite right, it is not my cup of tea. But I do think it's very good for actors to do very different things whenever they can, and I do think it's very good for actors to have quite a lot of practice at comedy.

Speaker 413:49

Yeah.

Peter Barkworth13:49

Let's get back to music. What next?

Peter Barkworth13:52

I must also, besides Brahms, have Beethoven, and his third symphony, the Ereika, has always been unvaryingly my favourite. And I love the opening of the third movement after the funereal, long second movement, when everything suddenly seems to come to vibrant life all over again.

Speaker 415:13

The beginning of the third movement of Beethoven's third symphony, the Heroica, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Rudolf Kempe. How far into your career did you start television?

Peter Barkworth15:25

I think it was I started doing television seriously in nineteen sixty two. I can remember that because it was when I had to stop teaching.

Peter Barkworth15:35

The d really the difference, the biggest difference between acting on television and acting in the theatre is that when you act in the theatre you act at night. When you act on television you act during the day. And I couldn't act during the day and teach, so I stopped teaching and I haven't ever taught again. Um my first major excursion into the life of television though was in a series called The Power Game and Manhunt that.

Speaker 416:03

was another.

Peter Barkworth16:03

Yeah.

Speaker 416:03

That's the idea that made an impact. Impact.

Peter Barkworth16:05

Yes, yes.

Speaker 416:07

Yeah.

Peter Barkworth16:07

Yeah.

Speaker 416:07

And you were in the new Tom Stoppart play. What was that called?

Peter Barkworth16:09

Professional Foul. I think it was a masterpiece. It's probably the the best play I've ever been in.

Peter Barkworth16:16

It was so beautifully written. What surprised me when I saw it, I thought when I read it, this is very funny, it's a wonderful part, and um it is very serious and it has a wonderful story. What I did not think when I read it, nor when I was doing it, was that it was actually rather touching and moving.

Peter Barkworth16:36

I had never been particularly moved by it, but I was when I saw it. And so to be in something the result of which is better than you thought it could possibly be when you're doing it, is an unnervingly Wonderful experience.

Speaker 416:48

Nothing shocked.

Peter Barkworth16:50

Yeah.

Speaker 416:50

Do the

Peter Barkworth16:50

Record, please.

Peter Barkworth16:52

This and my next two records are of my favourite shows in the theatre. I've seen all three things more than anything else, and I think I've played the records of them more than any others. My favourite opera is De Rosen Cavalier.

Peter Barkworth17:09

I know that I'm not allowed to take the whole thing. That's right. So I've I've chosen sides seven and eight so that I can hear as often as I like, which will be very often the glorious closing scene.

Speaker 417:12

Okay.

Speaker 417:13

Yeah.

Speaker 217:50

Oh sweet saves.

Speaker 218:11

Christmas trees just before.

Speaker 418:22

The last act of De Rosen Cavalier by Richard Streis, the three ladies Krista Ludwig, Elizabeth Schwartkopf and Theresa Stitch Randall. There was a television idea you had yourself which you you nursed for ten years. Yes.

Peter Barkworth18:37

I always thought that it would be a good idea to have a series based on a bank.

Speaker 418:41

Why?

Peter Barkworth18:43

Well

Peter Barkworth18:45

Because

Peter Barkworth18:47

I thought it would yield a lot of stories. I had seen

Peter Barkworth18:52

where I live, a lot of people whose lives were greatly altered by their financial situation. Little shops having to go out of business because there's a new supermarket round the corner.

Peter Barkworth19:05

And so I thought there could be many stories connected with a provincial bank.

Peter Barkworth19:12

I thought of this on April 24th, 1968. I know that because it's done in my diary. And I tried to sell it to somebody who turned it down on the grounds that bank managers work in banks and therefore would not be interesting television because you'd only need one set. However, we did find that if the bank manager works in an important but small rural town, he does tend to do far more of his work outside. And this was one of the reasons why we chose Dover as the location for Telford's change.

Speaker 419:45

What broke the dam? How did you set it eventually? Yeah.

Peter Barkworth19:49

I happened to be working with Barry Davis, the director.

Peter Barkworth19:53

Mark Schivas the producer and Brian Clark the writer and I just happened to mention

Peter Barkworth19:58

to them one day that I'd had this idea.

Peter Barkworth20:01

Oh what a good idea said Barry Davis. Oh may I write it? said Brian Clarke.

Peter Barkworth20:07

Oh, may I produce it? said Mark Shrivers. I didn't ask anybody. They just

Speaker 420:11

So you're in business just like that. In fact, you you formed your own company to to sell it to the BBC.

Speaker 420:18

To protect the copyright.

Peter Barkworth20:20

Really? It was just an idea.

Speaker 420:20

Really?

Peter Barkworth20:23

We decided that we would like to keep the copyright. I think we made, as a company, hardly anything out of it. But we might do from the sales of the book or if it's done abroad or from repeats or the idea being.

Speaker 420:34

How many episodes were there?

Peter Barkworth20:35

Okay.

Peter Barkworth20:37

Yeah.

Speaker 420:37

Yes, 50 minutes. 50 minutes. Yes.

Speaker 420:39

Now that company of producer, director,

Speaker 420:43

actor and writer, is still together in in another enterprise which is in the West End.

Peter Barkworth20:48

That's right. We have gone into partnership with John Gale to put on the play I'm in at the moment. Can you hear me at the b

Speaker 420:55

You've got two other members of the Telford's Change cast in it, too, and in fact your Telford's Change wife and son.

Peter Barkworth21:01

Yes, and they are my wife and son again. Hannah Gordon

Peter Barkworth21:05

Michael Maloney and I have got a quite extraordinary

Peter Barkworth21:09

relationship in acting. And when a partnership works, I don't see why you should abandon it if everybody is right for the role and Hannah is ideally suited for the role that she has in Can You Hear Me at the Back? As Michael is his.

Peter Barkworth21:25

My favorite ballet

Peter Barkworth21:27

Is Lafima Garde?

Peter Barkworth21:29

I think it's the most perfect ballet imaginable.

Speaker 422:33

After your favorite opera, your favorite ballet, La Fie Malgarde, music by Eirold and

Speaker 422:39

The Orchestra of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, conducted by John Lanchbury. Now, we haven't talked about feature films. Have they played much part in your career?

Peter Barkworth22:47

No, they haven't. They've been notable, really, by their absence.

Peter Barkworth22:52

The best part, I suppose, I've ever had in a feature film was in a Walt Disney film called Escape from the Dark. But my favourite film is a short called Mr. Smith. Not many lines in it, but it is a most remarkable study of a man who has decided to commit suicide. The audience doesn't know why, and I didn't know why when I was playing the part. But it's a a series of events that the man goes through and the series of things that he looks at on the day that he has decided that he's going to shoot himself.

Peter Barkworth23:24

on the top of Primrose Hill.

Speaker 423:26

Yeah.

Peter Barkworth23:27

Whose idea was

Speaker 423:27

Was

Peter Barkworth23:27

It was written and directed by Adrian Lyne.

Peter Barkworth23:32

Who spends most of his time making commercials. Now you're now launching out into the literary world. You've got a book coming out.

Peter Barkworth23:38

Yes, I have. I've just finished my first book. How nice it is to be able to say that.

Peter Barkworth23:43

Um it's called About Acting and it really i comes out of my experiences of teaching at Rada. It's a recipe book really. Record number seven.

Peter Barkworth23:54

My favourite musical. I saw it three times, A Chorus Line. I think it is uh the most wonderful show that I have ever seen, apart from opera and ballet, which I prefer to musicals. It's the most marvellous show I have ever seen in my life.

Speaker 224:10

Singular sensation Every little step she takes

Speaker 224:17

In combination, every move that she made.

Speaker 224:23

Smile like suddenly nobody else

Speaker 224:27

Well done.

Speaker 224:30

You know you'll never be lonely with your God.

Speaker 424:37

The finale to a chorus line.

Speaker 424:40

Peter, you're very much a loner, aren't you? You..

Speaker 424:43

Live alone. You might go on holidays alone sometimes.

Peter Barkworth24:47

Oh, yes. You see, the thing is, about being an actor, one has to be gregarious.

Peter Barkworth24:52

It's all shouting. It's all talking. It's a very noisy profession.

Peter Barkworth24:58

And as an antidote for that.

Peter Barkworth25:01

I like a considerable amount of silence. I like living alone too.

Speaker 425:06

So the desert island wouldn't be as much of a problem to you as it would to many people. You could adjust yourself.

Peter Barkworth25:12

Yeah.

Speaker 425:12

Yeah.

Peter Barkworth25:12

Yes, I could, in certain circumstances. I often wonder, though, what I'd do, being something of a pessimist, if I got ill.

Peter Barkworth25:24

Uh

Speaker 425:24

Uh

Peter Barkworth25:24

Yes, that's a hideous thought.

Speaker 425:24

Yes, that's a hideous thought.

Peter Barkworth25:25

Could you look after yourself? Yes, I think so. I'm fairly practical.

Peter Barkworth25:30

Could you get away?

Peter Barkworth25:32

I can't swim.

Peter Barkworth25:34

I should stay where you are, and just take their chances.

Speaker 425:35

Yes, take no chance.

Peter Barkworth25:38

Last record.

Peter Barkworth25:41

My last record is um Schubert's string quintet in C.

Peter Barkworth25:46

For me, Schubert's quintet is the quintessence of peace, and I think in order to enjoy oneself on the desert island you'd have to have quite a lot of peace floating around.

Speaker 426:55

The slow movement of the Schubert Quintet in C major by the Budapest string quartet. Augmented, of course. Now if you could take just one disc out of the eight, which would it be? I'd like Elgar's first symphony.

Speaker 427:10

And we're letting you take one luxury?

Peter Barkworth27:14

The luxury I would like would be a beautifully bound.

Peter Barkworth27:18

book of blank pieces of paper with plenty of ballpoint pens. I would need to have something to do.

Peter Barkworth27:25

And if I could keep my diary going, write about what it was like being on a desert island, it might make it feel a little more worthwhile.

Speaker 427:33

Good.

Speaker 427:33

And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare, which are already there, and we don't like big encyclopedias because that's too obvious.

Peter Barkworth27:41

I would like to take my diaries for 1976. Only for one year. Well, that's one book.

Speaker 427:48

Yes, but uh l th this is one word.

Peter Barkworth27:50

On work, isn't it? Your diaries to tell you. Well, if I can take them all, that would be very generous of you. I think we'll permit that. Yes, I'd like to go through them and remember what it was like.

Speaker 427:52

Oh.

Speaker 427:54

That would be a good idea.

Speaker 427:57

I'd like

Peter Barkworth28:00

Back in England.

Peter Barkworth28:02

Nothing could be easier to arrange. And thank you, Peter Barkworth, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. I've enjoyed myself greatly. Thank you very much. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 128:18

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.