Sir Ralph Richardson

Sir Ralph Richardson0:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy nine, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

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On our desert island this week is a great actor, Sir Rafe Richardson.

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Osareev, could you endure solitude, do you think?

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I d I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that I could. People go mad if they're alive. Perhaps I'm mad already. But do you mean to say that it's your fifteen hundredth? And you invented this program, didn't you? Yes, I I did. You haven't been playing it every every week. Oh, not every week. No, it's been rested from time to time.

Sir Ralph Richardson0:56

Oh, not every week. No, it's been rested from time to time.

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It came on the air first in January, nineteen forty two. Well, that's wonderful. Well, thank you I'm very flattered to be asked to to take part in this and many happy returns. Congratulations on having such a wonderful invention. We are delighted to have you with us.

Sir Ralph Richardson1:11

Maybe a half.

Sir Ralph Richardson1:12

Uh nation

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I think it's about time we started talking about records. Is music an important thing in your life? Well, it has become.

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an important thing, but not when I was young. I didn't come from a musical or a theatrical family with a Quaker family and it d we didn't seem to play very much music at all, nor did I ever go to the theatre. When I did go into the theatre I did have a gramophone. For ten years, more than that I toured all over the country.

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different place every week. And I always kept this little grammar phone with me.

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And it was a great pleasure to me. And then when I became first of all introduced, as it were, to music, is when I went to the old Vic.

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And there I I played with John Gilgard. I can't remember the year. I think it was nine I can't quite remember the year. We were playing the rehearsing The Tempest and we were speaking about the music that might go with the Temp the and we they were choosing Delius.

Sir Ralph Richardson2:15

Uh

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And they're saying to me, What what do you think?

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When you come on as cat band, what do you think, what part of D list do you think that

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Would be suitable. So I said, you know, I don't really know a great deal about Delius. And Gilgit said, you haven't got the Delius records at home.

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No, I said, I haven't the the dealious records at home. Point of fact, I've only got uh a record at home. He said, How do you mean I said one record. I said, Yes, I've been playing this record all these years on my little grammar phone, and on one side certainly is T for two.

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I've never turned the record over. There is something on the other side, but I've never tried that. But T for Two I like very, very much indeed. So uh just th I I've lost this record, oh, it's worn out. So could you just give me just a little sample of it's been a hail? Yes, is it not?

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She was the lady who sang it first of all in In No Know Nannette. That's right. Let's have just a little shot from it, shall we?

Sir Ralph Richardson3:23

Uh

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Heel upon your knees, your heels to

Sir Ralph Richardson3:25

Oh yo.

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Yeah.

Sir Ralph Richardson3:26

Heel Jupiter

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But you for me, just live for you, and you for me

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Nobody near us to be us or near us to make correlations on weekends occasion to both

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Happy no feeling we owe that anymore

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Binny Hale and Seymour Beard in the original production of No, No, No Net, your very first and only record. Yes, that's that's right. But then came others because Gilgard sent me the Delius records and with some others, some Bach and several others, and it really that was really started opened my eyes in amazement of what of the joys of listening to

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recorded music. Yes. And I bought many records and I

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went to hear concerts there.

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I came next door to where we're sitting here at the BBC at the old Queen's Hall. And there, I could almost say my friend Schnabel, because I knew Schnabel, used to sit there and play, like a great bear he was, very, very strong-looking man. And he sat there in a kind of air of concentration, the like of which I've never seen. It was not tense concentration, it was very, very relaxed, very, very relaxed. And then, wonderful.

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Music would pour out of a hymn.

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So rather like Moses striking the rock, if you like. He sat there rather like a rock, but the delicacy.

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And the rhythm.

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of his uh sonatas. I think some of the most beautiful experiences of my life. Look, I'd like you, if you could, to play me a little Schnabel. I'd choose a Beethoven piano sonata because that's what he played there at the Queen's Hall. And that would be perhaps the one in A-flat major.

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The last movement of the Beethoven piano sonata in A-flat major, played by Schnavel. You said.

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You were brought up in a a non musical household. In fact, your father was an artist, wasn't he? Yes, he was, yes, he was a painter, so was my mother. They were I was brought up with a very strong spell of turpentine in the house, but not much sound. What was your first ambition as a boy? What did you want to be?

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Oh, well, I mean, take it steadily, an engine driver, of course Perpetually pretending to be an engine driver.

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What happened to you when you were left school?

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Oh, well when I left school I went into an insurance office. Were you good at that?

Sir Ralph Richardson7:16

We got that?

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I was terrible.

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I was absolutely frightful I used to put the wrong

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Checks in the wrong envelope. And uh I was a terrible scourge to them.

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And

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Then, of course, I had a great piece of luck.

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Because my grandmother l remembered me in her will and left me five hundred pounds for my education. And I thought I was a millionaire.

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And I went I went to the manager.

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On allowing

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This was a m uh an insurance company at Brighton.

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And with mister Barrett.

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Great manager, I knocked on his door. I said, Sir, I have some very bad news for you.

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Oh dear, he said, not bad news again, Richardson. No, no, I said, I have grave news. I have to leave you, I have to give you notice. I have fallen into a great fortune, which I considered indeed five hundred pounds worth, and I shall have to leave you.

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Oh, he said, Richardson, Richardson. Thank God

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I was afraid I'll have to give you the sack next Saturday.

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And so then I did, as a matter of fact, go to a school of art. It seemed natural that I should paint and draw. But I didn't. I changed my vocation and went on the stage. How did you set about it? Well, I joined a little repertory theatre at Brighton. And then, of course, when I did go on the stage and got a job there in a Shakespeare company, they told me exactly the same. They said, you're never going to be an actor, you know, this doesn't suit you, this profession.

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And that upset me very much, because I my h five hundred pounds would run down and I'd have to go back to the insurance office. But just by some chance, just before they gave me the sack,

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I learnt a little bit of the trick.

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And there is a trick about acting in a way, an access to it, in the same way there's a trick about riding a bicycle, which seems so impossible when you try. But when you've found the trick of getting the balance, it works. And I often wonder, if I'd stayed at the School of Art at Brighton, I might have learnt the trick of painting. And I think that possibly would have suited me better.

Sir Ralph Richardson9:26

Mm-hmm.

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But but never man, let's get on with the job. Write your next record, then.

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My next record is joined perhaps to Schnabel in time, that is the time of the early 30s, when I fell in love with a very popular record indeed. That is Ella Fitzgerald singing A Tiskit, a Tasket. Oh, do let me remember that for just one second.

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A disket, a tasket, a brown and yellow basket. I send a letter to my mommy on the way out.

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A task it, a task it by Ella Fitzgerald with the Chick Webb Orchestra.

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That Shakespeare company you you were talking about you stayed with for what, three years, wasn't it? Yes, I did, yes, oh yes, three or four years, altogether twirling about. And there, of that time, of that early time, I didn't go to Opera at all until a good a good many years later, but I did go to Gilbert and Sullivan a great deal, and I adored Bertha Lewis and all the the company at that time.

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And the

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Sometimes people when talking about music look rather scant at me when I say how fond I am of Gilbert and Sullivan. They think there's something rather dull, rather sort of

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Ordinary about it. Well, I admit that there is something ordinary about it, and I'm a very ordinary man. But when I say, for instance, another thing about restaurants or something like that, and I say I'm very fond of treacle tart, and so I am, and nobody says there's anything mad or dull or ordinary about that. So I have a piece of treacle tart on one side, and on the other side, there grew a little flower on a great oak tree from Radiga.

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Uh

Sir Ralph Richardson11:39

And she he loved me never, did that great oak tree But I'm neither rich nor clever, And so why should he? But though fate of fortune sever, To be constant I endeavour, I for ever and forever To my great oak tree

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Uh

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Ah

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See?

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Being a

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There grew a little flower from Radigore, Christine Palmer, and Donald Adams. During your early years in the West End you played in In One Musical, didn't you? Oh, yes, I played in In Silver Wings.

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Spread your wings.

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And the morning is dawning in the sky. The whole thing the manager always said, well, fine, goodbye, good luck as they went on the tour. And for God's sake, don't let Richardson sing. Because in the course, in the line-up at the end, I pretended to sing. I opened with Harry Welshman and Lupino Lane.

Sir Ralph Richardson12:39

In the corner

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And the people the royal singers they said, If Richardson sings, it absolutely mugs the whole thing up and upsets our ears. So invisibly I used to sing, Spread your wings, lone bird but nobody heard it.

Sir Ralph Richardson12:59

Yeah.

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And you were never allowed to sing again.

Sir Ralph Richardson13:02

Never allow

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So, Rafe, looking down the list of of your theatre appearances since the war, you you seem to have struck a a nice balance between doing the best of commercial theatre plays like Flowering Cherry and and Lloyd George New My Father and the classics. Have you tried deliberately to mould your career rather than take things as they come up?

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Well, I tried to mold it. I tried to find changes. Yes, if I've been in one kind of a play, I look very anxiously for a difference, a different play. Yes, I do try. Sometimes I've been lucky enough to get that change.

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Now you're working in that

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Magnificent new building, our national theatre. How do you take to working in a theatre with such a a vast administration?

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Uh

Sir Ralph Richardson13:45

Yeah.

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It's the very opposite of the kind of theatre in which you work.

Sir Ralph Richardson13:53

Yes

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No, Hand, I rather like it.

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I think I'm rather more of a trooper than a general. I don't mind joining the army. I don't mind just doing

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Things with a lot of other people are rather like it.

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And it's very nice to see

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So many people improving, young people improving so much under your very eyes. Rather like a gardener walking into the greenhouse and seeing people sprouting up.

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After two or three plays, some young actors are quite different, you know. They learn very rapidly.

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There, because the theatres are very big, most of them, and uh acting has really got to have a size behind it. It's no good sort of mumbling in a cupboard, or even acting in a very small theatre is rather dangerous, because you've got to be able to paint big in order to paint small.

Sir Ralph Richardson14:28

Because

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And now it's time for another record. What are we going to have? I want to introduce you to two.

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favorite pianist of mine. And one is Pachman.

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And the other is Schmittling. Now, Parkman was called the Med

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Musician

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Indeed, he had some one sitting near him, who was, in fact, his keeper, I believe.

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But his playing was far from mad, it was very, very beautiful and liquid.

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I saw him several times playing Chopin and playing Chopin again at that time was Schmittelin.

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And I would like you to hear first of all, Parkman, and then

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after a pause, a little of schmettling. To my mind there

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They're in great contrast and very beautiful players.

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Could could you do that for me? Yes, of course. I'll take them on an island very gladly. What is the first work we're going to hear? Well, first, Parkman's Chopin Nocturne in E minor.

Sir Ralph Richardson15:47

Go ahead.

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Ladimir de Pachmann playing Chopin's Nocturne in E minor, opus seventy two. And now the other one.

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Schmetling nocturn in B.

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Jan Smeterling playing The Chopin Nocturn number seventeen in B, opus sixty two, number one.

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You had a very long and successful career in films.

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It was the very first, do you remember?

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Oh yes, I had my best part. The part I really thought was a tremendous part. It was my very first part was a courage in a play.

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The

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The ghoul? The that's it, the ghoul. Yes, a hor a horror. A horror for it with the actor who pl who dressed up and played cricket. What was a nice Englishman who was playing horror films, very famous actor.

Sir Ralph Richardson18:45

A horror for the

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Uh I Boris Karlov. Boris Karlov. Boris Karlov was the ghoul. Mhm. And Cedric Hadrick was in it. So but I had the best part in the whole

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There was colour making up for hours in the, you know, in the dressing room there, having false teeth and strange eyes. I don't want him wrong. Took him hours. But see, I just walked in and they said, oh, Richard, we don't bother about you. You just put on your collar and on you go.

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I won't really

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Meaning the collar, I was a parson, I had to put on my dog collar. And well, everyone was tremendously fraught.

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I only came blandly in and said, Oh, your ladyship, how kind of you to ask me to tea Indeed, indeed, I will have cucumber sandwiches. Oh, my lady, how charming

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and all the time I was putting gunpowder under the house in order to blow it up.

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I struck a match at the end of the play, which is the most dramatic thing I ever did, and the whole house exploded. I've never had a part like it since.

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You had that enormously long contract with Corda, with Alexander Corda. I did. How long were you working for him? I think I worked with him without a contract for between eight and ten years.

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Just stayed with him.

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He was wonderfully generous and kind to me. When the war came, I joined up.

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straight away at the beginning because I knew I had something to sell and I wanted to sell it while the buying was good. I could just fly an aircraft and so I joined up. He said, Ralph, what are you doing in this ridiculous uniform? I said well I've joined up.

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He said, but you have pictures to make with me. How can you join up? I said, I don't know. It's a tricky time. And I got to do this just now.

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So he said um

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Koningerham. He had a uh an accountant there, Koningerham. What do we pay Ralph?

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So Cunningham told me, he said, I will give you half of that till the end of the war.

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Which he did. And that was three years before I worked with him again.

Sir Ralph Richardson21:12

And that would be a

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And when I came out of the to work with him, he said, now I have some pictures for you.

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Are you happy now? I said, Well, I am happy, I am. Alex, very happy indeed, and thank you for all you've done for me.

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But I you know I owe you an awful lot of money, don't I?

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So what do you mean?

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He said, well, you've been paying me all the time during the war, and this is a debt. I was first of all quickly discharged.

Sir Ralph Richardson21:36

Yeah.

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He said, Condingham, bring me Kondingham. Cunningham appeared again. He said, What have we been giving Ralph? He said, Forget it, Cunningham. He does not owe us anything.

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Wasn't that generous of her? That was marvellous. Yes.

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You've been in some very excellent films. What's the worst one you can remember?

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Well, the ghoul, of course. But it gave you your biggest opportunity. No one ever appreciates it.

Sir Ralph Richardson22:09

Your biggest opportunity.

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It's time we had another record. What are we going to have next? We're going to have a bit of fun.

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I'm sure I wanted to laugh when I was on the island there.

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And there's a record that it's made me laugh.

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For years. I just wanted to have another giggle.

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Is Bob Newhart?

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and the cruise of the US submarine Codfish.

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Oh, this is the the commander talking to the crew after a long cruise, isn't it?

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Who's that?

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Man, I think you'll agree I've been I've been pretty lax as far as discipline is concerned and uh

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Uh golly, nobody enjoys a joke more than I do.

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But I would like the executive officer return.

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We've looked in the torpedo tubes, we've looked in your bags, and

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Bob Newhart.

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Now, Saraf, the practical side of of being a castaway, how well could you look after yourself? I don't know. I'd have an awful time. I couldn't look after myself at all. I can't look after myself now. But you like tinkering. You are good. Certainly I am. What have I got to tinker with?

Sir Ralph Richardson23:25

I have

Sir Ralph Richardson23:27

Good.

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I can make yes, I could make

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pretend cigars out of palm leaves, perhaps, but and semicastles I could make. I don't think I'd enjoy that very much. Could you put up a shelter?

Sir Ralph Richardson23:38

And so

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Ah, that's an idea. Yes, but perhaps I could. Yes, yes, yes. I would I'd get along somehow. What are you going to do? I'd miss you all very much indeed, I sure. Oh, we'd miss you. Are you good at fishing?

Sir Ralph Richardson23:48

Yeah.

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What are you going to eat?

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Yep, not bad at fishing, yes, yes. You could cook.

Sir Ralph Richardson23:57

Yes, yes.

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Yes, yes, I... But what would the be- Oh, I could cook the fish, you mean? Yes. Yes, I could cook the fish. Yes, yes, now I come to think of it.

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I wouldn't be quite so miserable as I thought I was.

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Would you try to escape?

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Well, construct some kind of small craft or or raft. How's your navigation?

Sir Ralph Richardson24:16

Construct

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Well it it's pretty ropey. I was in the fleet air during the war. Yes. And I flew a lot and I lost myself a very great deal of the time. And navigation is not my strong well. Well perhaps you'd better wait until you're you're fetched. That's right.

Sir Ralph Richardson24:33

What?

Sir Ralph Richardson24:35

Your fetch.

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And what's your last record going to be? Well, my last record I very much hope you'll enjoy. Perhaps it is my very favorite, and I don't know if the BBC will go along with me in this, but I'd like to say that if any of you don't like this record, we'll give you your money back.

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So, it is Mozart's clarinet concerto in A.

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Uh

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Part of the last movement of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto in A major, K622, the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beacham with Jack Bremer as soloist. If you could take just one disc out of the eight, which wouldn't be. Well, it must be the Mozart. Surely I wouldn't have chosen it, and I wouldn't have said it was my favourite.

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And you're allowed one luxury to take to the island. Aha Well, I'd s I'd rather I'd I'd I'd stick to my pipe, I'm afraid. I'd hardly do without my pipe. I'm trying to give up smoking. Yes. I've been trying to give up smoking for fifty years.

Sir Ralph Richardson26:38

Track.

Sir Ralph Richardson26:40

I mean

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And I've got along fairly well without actually giving it up. And if I stay on the the island, I shall be trying to give it up every day. Right. Well, a selection of pipes for you to try to give up and a good supply of tobacco. Yes.

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And you're allowed to take one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare, which are already on the island. And we don't want a big encyclopedia for you, or anything else at all.

Sir Ralph Richardson27:05

Yeah.

Sir Ralph Richardson27:09

Do you know anything else at all?

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Well, I think it'd have to be a a novel, not a work of philosophy, because I would be thinking about well, I'd like some strangers even if they were imaginary, some company, and I think out of novels perhaps I might get my most uh enjoyment. And uh perhaps my three novelists that I enjoy most are Conrad Trollope and Henry James. And I think perhaps I'd pick

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Henry James, because still, although I've read all Henry James, still there are very many puzzles, twists, turns and mazes in his mind, which I've certainly not quite anything like fathomed yet. So there'll be a lot of material in the complete works of Henry James. I'd have old James, I'd say. I don't think we can manage the complete works, but we'll find two or three of your favourite novels. Two or three yes, James novels. I see.

Sir Ralph Richardson28:02

I don't think

Sir Ralph Richardson28:04

Ugh.

Sir Ralph Richardson28:07

Two or three

Presenter28:11

And thank you. So Rafe Richardson. And thank you. Thank you. And most charming of you have me for this occasion. Thank you for being our fifteen hundredth castaway.

Presenter28:20

Got this. Goodbye, everyone.

Sir Ralph Richardson28:30

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.